Russia v Ukraine

[Trevor 57]

Looks like Vladimir wants to return to the glory days of the USSR - you could have seen this coming miles away, as soon as he got supreme power and no way of kicking him out, it was on

[GO FURTHER]

Covid-19 shakes the world and as we start to see some light at the end of the tunnel... Putin-22 rocks the world.

It will be a long time till we return to the glory days of the world we once knew.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Looks like Vladimir wants to return to the glory days of the USSR - you could have seen this coming miles away, as soon as he got supreme power and no way of kicking him out, it was on

Not much different to China, both wanting to regain "lost territories" (whether real or imagined) & create a unified mother country. Imagine the uproar if Great Britain suddenly decided to take back her lost countries...

[Citroënbender]

It’s quite upsetting.

My dearest is ethnic Russian (born and raised in Latvia, driven out by splintering of the USSR and mandated restoration of assets to disenfranchised Latvians) but 100% “Russian” by pedigree and outlook. Thinks Vladimir Vladimirovich^* is a strong, capable, handsome saviour - this view will never change and it’s one held by millions aged 50-upwards in many former Soviet countries… We will be minimising discussions of the matter, I think.

The trending of Ukraine towards a more “open” society - less surveillance and baby steps towards a fair-dinkum membership of the EU, will be missed. The deed is done, it has cost the instigator far less than decades of embedded emissaries to undermine and corrupt (per the actions of another superpower) - we are shown up again as stupid, weak and selfish.

^* This is tantamount to calling him “Junior”, a boy in the shadow of a man. Just as I refer to another historical warmonger as “The little man”.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Not much different to China, both wanting to regain "lost territories" (whether real or imagined) & create a unified mother country. Imagine the uproar if Great Britain suddenly decided to take back her lost countries...

I made a statement elsewhere that we need to be careful - while the world watches Russia v Ukraine China could very easily do what Japan did in WWII and make a move on the Pacific region

[Cav]

"Ditch nucs and we'll look after you" promised the west.

Then they sent in Hunter Biden.

Russia, and China for that matter, knows that the west has leaders more focused on equity, gender, racism and all the other woke issues rather than the REAL issues. Indeed someone suggested that Biden is more concerned about Ukraine's border than his own border with Mexico.

The west did nothing over China developing covid with Fauci's assistance and accidentally/intentionally releasing it to the world because of the almighty $.

Big business wants China money.

Big business runs the west.

Big business wants war.

When big media shut down the POUS everyone laughed because it was only Trump. This was a big red flag that the world had changed and politicians, voted in by the people, were no longer in charge.

Who will risk their lives in the name of their country these days?

I'd suggest very few

Sorry about the ramblings of an old soldier but the west is fecked

[Cav]

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by Cav

Who will risk their lives in the name of their country these days?

Even if I wanted to I couldn't because I'm unvaccinated and can't travel.

I sure hope all the troops on the opposing borders are socially distancing and wearing masks.

And just like that Putin cured covid.

[ford71V8]

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

That's a smart approach. If you can't get through to the leadership, get through to the people. It could work. But I fear it won't; the Russian people have been brainwashed in to thinking that the Ukrainians are the evil ones.

I live about 300m, as the crow flies, from where my grandmother and grandfather rest in eternity. They emigrated from the Ukraine after World War 2 ended and they had been displaced from their homes, and families, by the Germans.

My grandfather never really talked about his time as a youngster in the Ukraine. But, even some 25 years after he passed, I know he hated the Russians with a passion. Why? I'm not sure. But, I swear I can hear the earth above his grave stirring with what is happening now in his country of birth.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

That's a smart approach. If you can't get through to the leadership, get through to the people. It could work. But I fear it won't; the Russian people have been brainwashed in to thinking that the Ukrainians are the evil ones.

I live about 300m, as the crow flies, from where my grandmother and grandfather rest in eternity. They emigrated from the Ukraine after World War 2 ended and they had been displaced from their homes, and families, by the Germans.

My grandfather never really talked about his time as a youngster in the Ukraine. But, even some 25 years after he passed, I know he hated the Russians with a passion. Why? I'm not sure. But, I swear I can hear the earth above his grave stirring with what is happening now in his country of birth.

Maybe this link may explain your Grandfathers hatred of Russia; interesting commentary in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-yJD_fAtk

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Maybe this link may explain your Grandfathers hatred of Russia; interesting commentary in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK-yJD_fAtk

I'm sure that has a bit to do with it, but I got the feeling a lot of what he felt was far more personal than that.

Originally Posted by ford71V8

Without too much online searching I can see there are many Russian people unhappy with what is occurring and they are protesting in big numbers

Whilst there may be large numbers in absolute, as a percentage of the entire population, I'd think it'd still be pretty small. But, one can only hope that more Russian people feel it is the right thing to do to let their government know how they feel.

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Interesting

I read about 17% of Ukraine's population identify as Russians.

In 1994 a referendum took place in the Donetsk Oblast and the Luhansk Oblast, with around 90% supporting the Russian language gaining status of an official language alongside Ukrainian, and for the Russian language to be an official language on a regional level; however, the referendum was annulled by the Kyiv government.[25][26]


Could it get to the point one day that Melbourne for example has a referendum to recognize the Chinese language?

That's probably not a good analogy, as the history of the area and the 'ownership' of the land goes back a loooooonnnng way. And the 'ownership' has ebbed and flowed back and forth many times over that period. I'm trying to think of a more suitable analogy, but I'm struggling coming up with one.

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

That's a smart approach. If you can't get through to the leadership, get through to the people. It could work. But I fear it won't; the Russian people have been brainwashed in to thinking that the Ukrainians are the evil ones.

I live about 300m, as the crow flies, from where my grandmother and grandfather rest in eternity. They emigrated from the Ukraine after World War 2 ended and they had been displaced from their homes, and families, by the Germans.

My grandfather never really talked about his time as a youngster in the Ukraine. But, even some 25 years after he passed, I know he hated the Russians with a passion. Why? I'm not sure. But, I swear I can hear the earth above his grave stirring with what is happening now in his country of birth.

Without too much online searching I can see there are many Russian people unhappy with what is occurring and they are protesting in big numbers

[Itsme]

Welcome to the New World Order; China & Russia the new supreme super powers.
The weak sanctions will do nothing while innocent people suffer, the western nations have became weak and gutless.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Welcome to the New World Order; China & Russia the new supreme super powers.
The weak sanctions will do nothing while innocent people suffer, the western nations have became weak and gutless.

Honestly i kind of agree a little here.
I really think the western nations are scared, i didnt want to think that though.
The sanctions imposed are like a fly screen window on a submarine.
Not one country has put up their hands to help even though the land of the free has troops in neighbouring countries.
We've had so much time to plan for this and here we are sadly. The other concerning fact is how far west put put will go, beyond Ukraine who knows.

Regardless its pretty sad really, needless loss of life for nothing.

[ford71V8]

[Vesper Martini]

Interesting

I read about 17% of Ukraine's population identify as Russians.

In 1994 a referendum took place in the Donetsk Oblast and the Luhansk Oblast, with around 90% supporting the Russian language gaining status of an official language alongside Ukrainian, and for the Russian language to be an official language on a regional level; however, the referendum was annulled by the Kyiv government.[25][26]


Could it get to the point one day that Melbourne for example has a referendum to recognize the Chinese language?

[creative]

Live cameras overlooking the city. It blows my mind that we can just watch all this unfold on youtube...

[Mr Brooksy]

I'm hearing second hand reports that Russians are protesting in Moscow over this.

[DJM83]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/...ssia/100861160

Wonder what else these folks will get up to.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by DJM83

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/...ssia/100861160

Wonder what else these folks will get up to.

RT on Foxtel is still working

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by DJM83

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/...ssia/100861160

Wonder what else these folks will get up to.

Pfft. Apparently Russian players can no longer get onto Frogger online.

That'll learn 'em.

[MITCHAY]

The whole situation is crazy. While I understand Russia was concerned about expansion, Ukraine is not and will never be a member of NATO.

It would be stupid for the existing members to admit Ukraine to a binding pact knowing they have an existing conflict with Russia as it would potentially draw them in.

A lot of commentators have said that simply agreeing to these terms would have avoided this but on the other hand perhaps that ambiguity could have tempered Russia at the same time.

Another argument is that strong sanctions could have prevented this but they also give Russia nothing to lose. In any case sanctions should be a punishment against action you have taken not what you might do.

It's played out a lot like most people thought it would although much more. Putin wants to make sure he doesn't bite off more than he can chew though because any fallout on a NATO country is likely to trigger a response.

While we are not part of Europe and so far not any chance of getting involved directly, it does has potential consequences in our region in the future depending on what happens with China.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Another argument is that strong sanctions could have prevented this but they also give Russia nothing to lose. In any case sanctions should be a punishment against action you have taken not what you might do.

Russia, China and even the EU have been slowly decoupling from the US dollar for quite some time now. I think there were even talks around establishing a secondary SWIFT like transaction system. Rise of the cryptos? At some stage, financial sanctions imposed by "the west" will have very little impact.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Russia, China and even the EU have been slowly decoupling from the US dollar for quite some time now. I think there were even talks around establishing a secondary SWIFT like transaction system. Rise of the cryptos? At some stage, financial sanctions imposed by "the west" will have very little impact.

Yes they have been insulating themselves for some time since they have already under a lot of sanctions.

The only reason they have not been booted out of SWIFT is because of the blowback on everyone.

If there is no direct threat to your country, trying to sell any negative fallout to your country as a leader is a tough task.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Russia, China and even the EU have been slowly decoupling from the US dollar for quite some time now. I think there were even talks around establishing a secondary SWIFT like transaction system. Rise of the cryptos? At some stage, financial sanctions imposed by "the west" will have very little impact.

That's generally not what is meant by sanctions.
The world could bring Russia to its knees, if we had the balls and were prepared to stomach the fallout.
But we don't.
Nobody is willing to weather the recession it would probably trigger.
Plus there's no chance of getting China to play ball, and without their cooperation, western sanctions would simply benefit China.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

That's generally not what is meant by sanctions.
The world could bring Russia to its knees, if we had the balls and were prepared to stomach the fallout.
But we don't.
Nobody is willing to weather the recession it would probably trigger.
Plus there's no chance of getting China to play ball, and without their cooperation, western sanctions would simply benefit China.

Whats funny is that even a few NATO countries have not only the economy but the manpower to face up to Russia if they'd get their **** together even without the US. Even Australia is going to overtake Russia in GDP soon enough

Macron wanted the EU army so here is his chance to step up and actually do it

[George V]

It is sad series of events, still unfolding and can only get worse for the inhabitants.

The worst part in my opinion is - the school yard "fight fight" type support provided by others to Ukrainians and then do practically nothing. There are plenty of pundits with their analysis on everything but I feel for the locals.

On that note, there is a YouTube lecture by a University of Chicago seriously smart Professors. The scariest part is - this was recorder in Sep 2015.

link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

Regards,
George V

[MITCHAY]

If you want an example of how much Ukraine will fight, take the example of Zmiinyi Island. If reports are true, they had no chance in hell and still told Russia to get ****ed. They are all dead now rather than surrender.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

If you want an example of how much Ukraine will fight, take the example of Zmiinyi Island. If reports are true, they had no chance in hell and still told Russia to get ****ed. They are all dead now rather than surrender.

With no help from any other countries the thought of living under "occupation" from Russia will be daunting to say the least, just imagine the persecution the population will suffer under Russian Rule.