Are high rise vehicles safe in built up areas?

[johnydep]

Should these things be allowed in built up areas, such as cities & suburbs?



Imagine the damage of hitting or being hit by something that high, a side impact would be deadly.

Driving it feels like driving a cloud, it floats with the wind & road bumps; not dangerously so, but enough to make relaxed driving difficult. At 60km/h it feels like your doing 80, it has all the right type of gear underneath.

Yes, but should require a special licence like any vehicle over 2ton and over a certain height need to take extra training to learn how to control such a pig

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Yes, but should require a special licence like any vehicle over 2ton and over a certain height need to take extra training to learn how to control such a pig

So i need a special licence to drive my Territory ... because that's over 2-tonne.

But i do believe you should complete a test to allow you to tow though (many people are hopeless when it coems to towing something of substantial size.)

I agree ... an advanced driving course or 2 in knowing how to handle your vehicle is money well spent for everyone.

[BJ]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

So i need a special licence to drive my Territory ... because that's over 2-tonne.

Yes I think you should have one. How do we know that you are capable of drive one. In my opinion they should ban all 4WDs from the city and suburbs

But i do believe you should complete a test to allow you to tow though (many people are hopeless when it comes to towing something of substantial size.)

Yes I agree with you 100% most people would not have a clue how to tow let alone back one with a trailer.

I agree ... an advanced driving course or 2 in knowing how to handle your vehicle is money well spent for everyone.

The most sensible thing you have said. No i am not one of the 4WD bashes I use to own one but it was only for the weekends hunting and camping trips unlike most of them on the roads today. If i have to pay a stupid price to register my V8 every year then why shouldn't 4WD's pay extra

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

So i need a special licence to drive my Territory ... because that's over 2-tonne.

What I'm getting at is roll-over potential of the vehicle and the height of a frontal colision point ie if the front bar is in the window/head region should determine whether a special licence is needed.

A truck like in the image shown is pretty tall and the colision point is pretty much head height, or the chest of a pedestrian. Also if one was to wrench the steering wheel of that Toyota to avoid a rear ender, it would roll. The driver should need a special licence.

Whereas a Territory has a lower front bar, making it more safer to pedestrians and in the instance of a T bone accident would have a bit of protection from the side impact bars and side airbags. Also the territory is a more nimble car and is less likely to roll over.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Yes, but should require a special licence like any vehicle over 2ton and over a certain height need to take extra training to learn how to control such a pig

I would agree with this if it was changed from weight to height.

If we start using weight as an issue for special licences, it wouldn't be long before small car owners start saying the same thing about large cars like Falcon, Fairlane & LTD's.
After all there are more small cars sold than large.

[mustang]

think about it for a second......why would u need a car that high in a city......do they feel that the streets of say melbourne are that bad that they need a big bad A$$ 4x4 to be safe..... not to mention that it prolly has illegal suspension hieghts.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Originally Posted by mustang

think about it for a second......why would u need a car that high in a city......do they feel that the streets of say melbourne are that bad that they need a big bad A$$ 4x4 to be safe..... not to mention that it prolly has illegal suspension hieghts.

By the same thinking , why do we need some of our cars to be as low as they are ?????
I think you can have your car how you like and if you like it extreme , beware the law ! If I owned a 4X4 and did extreme 4wheel drive driving with it , does that mean I should have not be allowed inside the city limits! Its like the old west , where the Sheriff would take your smokewagon off you and return it as you left town again !
out:

[mustang]

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

By the same thinking , why do we need some of our cars to be as low as they are ?????
I think you can have your car how you like and if you like it extreme , beware the law ! If I owned a 4X4 and did extreme 4wheel drive driving with it , does that mean I should have not be allowed inside the city limits! Its like the old west , where the Sheriff would take your smokewagon off you and return it as you left town again !
out:

yes i agree not everyone needs to lower their car but why do u need a 4x4 in a town/city

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Originally Posted by mustang

yes i agree not everyone needs to lower their car but why do u need a 4x4 in a town/city

Re read my post again !

While they might not need a 4X4 in town, why do some people feel the need to have a car sound system that can be heard in the next suburb , when they sit 3 feet from the speakers while driving said doof doof ?

People will spend the money they have on what they like , it will never change . I love drinking Bundy , but everyone tells me beer will do the job !
:baby bott

[stockel]

This is possibly another argument altogether but...

Why would you need to increase the ride hieght that much??

1) approach/departure angles:
Surely the approach/departure angles aren't that bad on this 4wd from factory? (know nothing about toyotas). In my experience (Jackaroo, Pajero, range rover, defender etc) the factory approach and departure angles were suffiecent however this is obviously a piontless argument as it depends on the condition of the track you are on!

2) clearance:
At the end of the day aren't the diffs and axles etc still the same height off the deck as before the mods?

Also the probability of rollover would be hugely increased after the mods.

I think that unless I am missing something these huge height increases overall are more for look at me purposes than anything else (Happy to hear thoughts on this!)!
It would be interesting to hear some serious 4wd peoples (don't know how we qualify this lol!!) oppinion on this - I'M SURE I WILL!!!!

[jabba]

Originally Posted by mustang

think about it for a second......why would u need a car that high in a city......do they feel that the streets of say Melbourne are that bad that they need a big bad A$$ 4x4 to be safe..... not to mention that it prolly has illegal suspension heights.

Well then think about this for a second.... The person that owns that car properly love extreme 4X4ing and would go out 4X4ing quite often. So because of his interest, and love of getting on the beaten track and heading out to the country for a weekend under the stars, he can not live in the city with such a vechile..... Or he could be a country bumpkin that has come into the big smoke to do some business......

Originally Posted by mustang

think about it for a second......why would u need a car that high in a city......do they feel that the streets of say melbourne are that bad that they need a big bad A$$ 4x4 to be safe..... not to mention that it prolly has illegal suspension hieghts.

Think about it. Why do you need a veicle that do speeds of 170KMPh in a city.

Next your vehicle will be banned and we we all be driving scooters.

[Mechan1k]

Depends how it is setup and used I guess.

Also depends where you live and where you work (Need to travel).
Also comes down to using it for a hobby as well.

Like most people lower cars and put bodykits on them ... and larger wheels, etc.

Both types of vehicles can be as equally as dangerous as each other ... it coems down to if the modification sare done properly/safely ... and then it comes down to the driver of the vehicle (moreso than anything else).

Quite a few friends of mine have "high-rise vehicles" (mucho money spent too) ... and they get used for their intended purposes ... but also get used in suburbia too. But they all know their vehicles aren't built for speed and cornering ... and their drive accordingly to be safe.

They can't afrd to drive like idiots in them ... cos of the amount of money that is spent on thier vehicles.

[Citric GT]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Like most people lower cars and put bodykits on them ... and larger wheels, etc.

Both types of vehicles can be as equally as dangerous as each other ...

I'd feel heaps safer on the bump stops thanks!

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

I'd feel heaps safer on the bump stops thanks!

Not when a truck doesn't see you and runs straight over the top of you.

[nang3]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

.....
Quite a few friends of mine have "high-rise vehicles" (mucho money spent too) ... and they get used for their intended purposes ... but also get used in suburbia too. But they all know their vehicles aren't built for speed and cornering ... and their drive accordingly to be safe.

This is exactly true. I had a patrol that was jacked up 9 inches over standard with a high COG and i adjusted accordingly and never came close to crashing or causing damage to another car...

Originally Posted by mustang

can u tell me where i can buy a 100 series cruiser from @ that price and then where i can buy that suspension set up from for 15k. i mean u would be lookin @ 50k for the car plus bout 30-40k for ALL that gear i mean really

yeh the hundy would be closer to 50K but i doubt 30-40K for that gear?? well maybe if he has the works, both diff locks, rollerdrawers, chev conversion etc etc.. but that spring kit would only be about $3K or $4K.. point is it is easy and cheap to get a 4wd lifted.. cost me a total of $4000 to get 7 inches higher than stock, BUT it all comes down to the driver..

Originally Posted by gozza

stupid women sitting up in them thinking there so powerfull and mighty alot of 4wd also tend to think they have right of way everywhere

I dont think they think they are high and mighty, they are just bad drivers to start with and dont notice anything around them adn have no clue ... i work next to a surf shop and there are literally dozens of soccer moms in 4wds rocking up everyday - 80% of them cant even park them, 60% open their doors straight into whatever car is next to them, and 100% of them need a 700pt turn to get out again... the soccer dads dont have that problem though :

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Depends how it is setup and used I guess.

Also depends where you live and where you work (Need to travel).
Also comes down to using it for a hobby as well.

Like most people lower cars and put bodykits on them ... and larger wheels, etc.

Both types of vehicles can be as equally as dangerous as each other ... it coems down to if the modification sare done properly/safely ... and then it comes down to the driver of the vehicle (moreso than anything else).

Quite a few friends of mine have "high-rise vehicles" (mucho money spent too) ... and they get used for their intended purposes ... but also get used in suburbia too. But they all know their vehicles aren't built for speed and cornering ... and their drive accordingly to be safe.

They can't afrd to drive like idiots in them ... cos of the amount of money that is spent on thier vehicles.

Thats true if the drivers are not drivng there 4WD like a sports car and no its limits they are no more dangerous than any other car

[Citric GT]

Big 4WDs like that are just ugly pigs that should be taxed out of existence.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Citric XR6

Big 4WDs like that are just ugly pigs that should be taxed out of existence.

Amen.

Had a mate who was T boned by one of these troglodite morons who went through a red light.
There was a reason I said HAD a mate, as he is no longer with us thanks to some foll with an inferiority complex and a 2 inch pecker - requiring such an oversized vehicle.

Problems are not just with the size of the vehicle, but the insular effect it offers the drivers which unfortunately turn to arrogance and plain stupidity. As the roads get busier this is the last thing we need, and the fact that in a side impact these vehicles are basically crushing one of the weakest points on a cars' chassis means that they do tremendous damage to the safety cell, alarmingly seriously injuring or killing occupants of any vehicle not of similar dimensions.

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by ltd

Had a mate who was T boned by one of these troglodite morons who went through a red light.
There was a reason I said HAD a mate, as he is no longer with us thanks to some foll with an inferiority complex and a 2 inch pecker - requiring such an oversized vehicle.

Mate, get a clue. First off, your post is so full of stereotyping dribble it's not funny. If I ranted about saying you were obviously a hoon because you're on a Ford site and you only own a performance car to make up for a small dick and erection problems you'd tell me to **** off, and rightly so.

Secondly, the fact it was a 4WD had nothing to do with it. Sure they can be more dangerous in a side impact, but are you going to tell me a Falcon has never killed someone in a side impact? Mini Mokes are dangerous to motorbike riders, let's ban those.

And third, the guy RAN A RED LIGHT! Last time I checked, that's illegal. How can you possibly blame the 4WD for that? The driver was clearly to blame, what he was driving had nothing to do with it. If he flew through the red in an Excel would you be calling for a ban on them? Didn't think so.


Ban low performace drivers, not high performance cars. That phrase gets thrown around a lot here when ACA or Today Tonight kick up a fuss. Yet everyone is quick to bash 4WDs, stereotype the owners and ignore the real cause of the problems. You're all no better than the 80 year old Volvo driving whingers who call Neil Mitchell up every morning to about hoons.

[tex]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Mate, get a clue. First off, your post is so full of stereotyping dribble it's not funny. If I ranted about saying you were obviously a hoon because you're on a Ford site and you only own a performance car to make up for a small dick and erection problems you'd tell me to **** off, and rightly so.

Secondly, the fact it was a 4WD had nothing to do with it. Sure they can be more dangerous in a side impact, but are you going to tell me a Falcon has never killed someone in a side impact? Mini Mokes are dangerous to motorbike riders, let's ban those.

And third, the guy RAN A RED LIGHT! Last time I checked, that's illegal. How can you possibly blame the 4WD for that? The driver was clearly to blame, what he was driving had nothing to do with it. If he flew through the red in an Excel would you be calling for a ban on them? Didn't think so.


Ban low performace drivers, not high performance cars. That phrase gets thrown around a lot here when ACA or Today Tonight kick up a fuss. Yet everyone is quick to bash 4WDs, stereotype the owners and ignore the real cause of the problems. You're all no better than the 80 year old Volvo driving whingers who call Neil Mitchell up every morning to about hoons.

Pretty harsh mad chicken, I reckon this argument has gone on for TOO long.
(I do agree with u by the way !)

[nang3]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Mate, get a clue. First off, your post is so full of stereotyping dribble it's not funny. If I ranted about saying you were obviously a hoon because you're on a Ford site and you only own a performance car to make up for a small dick and erection problems you'd tell me to **** off, and rightly so.

Secondly, the fact it was a 4WD had nothing to do with it. Sure they can be more dangerous in a side impact, but are you going to tell me a Falcon has never killed someone in a side impact? Mini Mokes are dangerous to motorbike riders, let's ban those.

And third, the guy RAN A RED LIGHT! Last time I checked, that's illegal. How can you possibly blame the 4WD for that? The driver was clearly to blame, what he was driving had nothing to do with it. If he flew through the red in an Excel would you be calling for a ban on them? Didn't think so.


Ban low performace drivers, not high performance cars. That phrase gets thrown around a lot here when ACA or Today Tonight kick up a fuss. Yet everyone is quick to bash 4WDs, stereotype the owners and ignore the real cause of the problems. You're all no better than the 80 year old Volvo driving whingers who call Neil Mitchell up every morning to about hoons.

I agree..

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Mate, get a clue. First off, your post is so full of stereotyping dribble it's not funny. If I ranted about saying you were obviously a hoon because you're on a Ford site and you only own a performance car to make up for a small dick and erection problems you'd tell me to **** off, and rightly so.

Secondly, the fact it was a 4WD had nothing to do with it. Sure they can be more dangerous in a side impact, but are you going to tell me a Falcon has never killed someone in a side impact? Mini Mokes are dangerous to motorbike riders, let's ban those.

And third, the guy RAN A RED LIGHT! Last time I checked, that's illegal. How can you possibly blame the 4WD for that? The driver was clearly to blame, what he was driving had nothing to do with it. If he flew through the red in an Excel would you be calling for a ban on them? Didn't think so.


Ban low performace drivers, not high performance cars. That phrase gets thrown around a lot here when ACA or Today Tonight kick up a fuss. Yet everyone is quick to bash 4WDs, stereotype the owners and ignore the real cause of the problems. You're all no better than the 80 year old Volvo driving whingers who call Neil Mitchell up every morning to about hoons.

First off, I don't own a high performance car. Secondly, you do not know what I do mate so you might not want to be so dismissive of the information and experience I have.
Thirdly, if you naively believe that 4wd vehicles are no more dangerous than a normal sedan then you have typified the very problems that the rest of us motorists face.

Your arguement about how vehicles perform in an impact is so flawed that quite frankly everyone who has read your post is now dumber for having done so. It is this type of unadulterated ignorance that has made the 4wd issue such a big problem in the first place.

As for getting a clue mate, I put it to you that I have a clue and in fact you don't; by the fact that you obviously have no concept of different types of vehicle construction and the resultant concentration of forces, let alone the actual metallurgy of the materials used and their respective tensile strength.
If you would like a clue, perhaps you could spend a night with the local fire brigade and attend some accidents involving 4wd. Or better yet, perhaps you can check with the bureau of statistics and check what average percentage of either sedans or 4wd's have caused the most fatalities. Simply burying ones head in the sand does not make the problem go away, and denial that a problem exists is just fanciful.

[Psycho Chicken]

Originally Posted by ltd

First off, I don't own a high performance car. Secondly, you do not know what I do mate so you might not want to be so dismissive of the information and experience I have.
Thirdly, if you naively believe that 4wd vehicles are no more dangerous than a normal sedan then you have typified the very problems that the rest of us motorists face.

Your arguement about how vehicles perform in an impact is so flawed that quite frankly everyone who has read your post is now dumber for having done so. It is this type of unadulterated ignorance that has made the 4wd issue such a big problem in the first place.

As for getting a clue mate, I put it to you that I have a clue and in fact you don't; by the fact that you obviously have no concept of different types of vehicle construction and the resultant concentration of forces, let alone the actual metallurgy of the materials used and their respective tensile strength.
If you would like a clue, perhaps you could spend a night with the local fire brigade and attend some accidents involving 4wd. Or better yet, perhaps you can check with the bureau of statistics and check what average percentage of either sedans or 4wd's have caused the most fatalities. Simply burying ones head in the sand does not make the problem go away, and denial that a problem exists is just fanciful.

Never said you owned a performance car. Just made a generalisation, exactly as you did.

Also never said 4WDs aren't more dangerous than family sedans. Because I know that's not true.

Never made a comment about how any vehicle performs in an accident, let alone 4WDs.

I have a fair idea of the different types of vehicle construction, but I fail to see how you conclude I don't, because I never said anything about it.

Yes 4WDs are more dangerous than family sedans. I'm not even going to try to dispute that, I know they are. I just fail to see how you can claim that 4WDs are to blame for your mate's accident (even though it may come across differently, I'm sorry to hear about). Yes the 4WD may of played a role in it, however if the driver had stuck to the law it wouldn't of happened, plain and simple.

Sorry if I came across as harsh, but I just get sick to death of knee jerk reactions to problems. Yes 4WDs are dangerous. Yes they take a bit more skill to drive. But that doesn't mean they should be taken off the road. There is clearly a problem with the licencing system, which is constantly avoided in favour of banning something. Sadly, banning things that are unpopular with the majority always wins votes over long term solutions.

[jabba]

Originally Posted by ltd

First off, I don't own a high performance car. Secondly, you do not know what I do mate so you might not want to be so dismissive of the information and experience I have.
Thirdly, if you naively believe that 4wd vehicles are no more dangerous than a normal sedan then you have typified the very problems that the rest of us motorists face.

Your arguement about how vehicles perform in an impact is so flawed that quite frankly everyone who has read your post is now dumber for having done so. It is this type of unadulterated ignorance that has made the 4wd issue such a big problem in the first place.

As for getting a clue mate, I put it to you that I have a clue and in fact you don't; by the fact that you obviously have no concept of different types of vehicle construction and the resultant concentration of forces, let alone the actual metallurgy of the materials used and their respective tensile strength.
If you would like a clue, perhaps you could spend a night with the local fire brigade and attend some accidents involving 4wd. Or better yet, perhaps you can check with the bureau of statistics and check what average percentage of either sedans or 4wd's have caused the most fatalities. Simply burying ones head in the sand does not make the problem go away, and denial that a problem exists is just fanciful.

Well then on that note I think we propose a vote on banning anything that is driven on the road that is bigger the a motorcycle..

[fast66]

Originally Posted by ltd

First off, I don't own a high performance car. Secondly, you do not know what I do mate so you might not want to be so dismissive of the information and experience I have.
Thirdly, if you naively believe that 4wd vehicles are no more dangerous than a normal sedan then you have typified the very problems that the rest of us motorists face.

Your arguement about how vehicles perform in an impact is so flawed that quite frankly everyone who has read your post is now dumber for having done so. It is this type of unadulterated ignorance that has made the 4wd issue such a big problem in the first place.

As for getting a clue mate, I put it to you that I have a clue and in fact you don't; by the fact that you obviously have no concept of different types of vehicle construction and the resultant concentration of forces, let alone the actual metallurgy of the materials used and their respective tensile strength.
If you would like a clue, perhaps you could spend a night with the local fire brigade and attend some accidents involving 4wd. Or better yet, perhaps you can check with the bureau of statistics and check what average percentage of either sedans or 4wd's have caused the most fatalities. Simply burying ones head in the sand does not make the problem go away, and denial that a problem exists is just fanciful.

Slow down there LTD, Tell me how material tensile strength has anything to do with the way a vehicle behaves in an accident. Last time I checked it would be more to do with Euler's buckling load analysis. In terms of vehicle construction, around 75% of "4wd' vehicles on our roads are actually constructed in the same monocoque method as passenger vehicles, rather than the traditional ladder frame chassis method.
I agree with much of what you have said, but to attempt to "baffle with bulls**T" doesn't give you credability.
For the record, I agree with many here in that all enthusiast motorists should stick together and present a united front to the Harrold Scrubbys of the world.

[RavenLS1]

Simple Answer No!

[PhatBat]

Originally Posted by THE_RAVEN

Simple Answer No!

Can you dumb that down a bit cause I didn't quite understand yer answer
Just Kidding

In all seriousness.........I think they're Ok but it is the drivers that need to be better informed.

I guess it's just because 4x4's are seen as nothing more than a big car when in fact, they are a small truck.

(and) yes there IS a difference. Fourbies have poor visiblility, poor braking charachteristics, top heavy, understeering and underbraking just like a small truck.

Cheers

[herbs]

Originally Posted by PhatBat

Can you dumb that down a bit cause I didn't quite understand yer answer
Just Kidding

In all seriousness.........I think they're Ok but it is the drivers that need to be better informed.

I guess it's just because 4x4's are seen as nothing more than a big car when in fact, they are a small truck.

(and) yes there IS a difference. Fourbies have poor visiblility, poor braking charachteristics, top heavy, understeering and underbraking just like a small truck.

Cheers

Actually................ the car recently found to be the worst for blind spots and all goes to.........the Commodore. (Many other cars also suffer from this, not just bashing the Holden) One cannot seriously say that my trayback Landcruiser has worse visibility than a car, surely? _2: