Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22-10-2016, 10:04 PM   #1
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Doesn't like superchargers

Now before you all lynch me, I LOVE superchargers nearly as much as I love V8 Falcons. Now I will probably never own a blown FG XR8 so I have been drooling over all the YouTube reviews from the usual car mags aswell as my personal favourite, the greatest driver in our land, John Bowe trying to hit 300km in a Herrod prepared Falcon. Now, one of these tools who compare the new R8 to the XR8 Sprint reckons the noise from the blower is no good and the holden is a better car. I can't believe any petrol head regardless of car brand, would say they prefer a V8 without a blower, seriously... Did this guy miss Mad Max I when he was a kid? The scene as the movie opens coming down on to the highway as the blown black coupe comes into view, the sound is one of life's pleasures.One of the reasons I love the performance Fords over the Holdens is the XR range was always unique and they all have something not on the rest of the range. The last Falcon does it again. Sticking with a great motor and developing it I prefer to just upping the capacity. Just my 2 cents. Long live the Windsor 5.0
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-10-2016, 10:06 PM   #2
.:4:.
Kicking back
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,697
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

I'm pretty sure the falcon clocked 297.
.:4:. is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-10-2016, 10:11 PM   #3
.:4:.
Kicking back
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,697
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by .:4:. View Post
I'm pretty sure the falcon clocked 297.
And I'll quote myself by saying the only mod on the gtf was the removal of the speed limiter.
.:4:. is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-10-2016, 10:21 PM   #4
asagaai
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,791
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by .:4:. View Post
And I'll quote myself by saying the only mod on the gtf was the removal of the speed limiter.
Not quite.

They replaced the standard driveshaft with stronger driveshaft as a precautionary measure.

If it had an intercooler likely would have cracked 300 in the heat....
__________________
Ford Rides:

Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K

FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender
asagaai is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-10-2016, 10:31 PM   #5
.:4:.
Kicking back
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Western sydney
Posts: 8,697
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by asagaai View Post
Not quite.

They replaced the standard driveshaft with stronger driveshaft as a precautionary measure.

If it had an intercooler likely would have cracked 300 in the heat....
But they didn't and John bowe still clocked 297 which is a solid effort
.:4:. is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-10-2016, 10:42 PM   #6
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Your both spot on re mods. Just removed the limiter & a stronger d,shaft. Yep, 297 but how about those helicopter shots of the falcon and the blower whine. oh yeah.
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-10-2016, 11:47 PM   #7
Ben73
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Ben73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,335
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Holden fans, what can you do but laugh.

Supercharged V8s are the most badass engines around. They sound fantastic.
Ben73 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 01:47 AM   #8
Express
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
 
Express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,530
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by xr8cam View Post
I can't believe any petrol head regardless of car brand, would say they prefer a V8 without a blower, seriously...
I'm a petrol head and can honestly say I'd prefer a V8 without a blower and with two hairdryers instead like the Euro V8's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xr8cam View Post
One of the reasons I love the performance Fords over the Holdens is the XR range was always unique and they all have something not on the rest of the range. The last Falcon does it again. Sticking with a great motor and developing it I prefer to just upping the capacity. Just my 2 cents. Long live the Windsor 5.0
Obviously you forgotten about the GM supercharged V8's and that Holden actually put some of their development money into also improving the driver and passenger creature comfort/tech experience.
Express is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 02:24 AM   #9
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

The comparisons I was watching the holden was n/a vs the s/c ford. I don't pay any attention to holdens to be honest, I am an unashamed Ford snob.

Last edited by xr8cam; 23-10-2016 at 02:42 AM.
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 04:21 AM   #10
FGX-351
Supercharged Mang-mobile
 
FGX-351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Behind the wheel
Posts: 1,792
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Mines only a V6 mang mobile but I'll never get tired of that whine.
What I wouldn't give to own a Miami Falcon!
__________________
09/00 VX HSV XU6 Build #0001 of 0171
http://fordforums.com.au/showthread....09#post5571209
-- Best E/T: |14.982 @92.12mph | R/T:0.013 | 60' 2.213| 330: 6.283 | 1/8: 9.624 @ 73.17mph | 1000: 12.529 | 25Deg, N/A Hum, 1010mb | Willowbank Raceway 7/12/16

Tickford EL Falcon XR6 RIP
-- Factory Manual
-- Best E/T: |14.991 @ 92.71mph | R/T: 0.607 | 60': 2.215 | 660': 9.665 |13Deg, 86%H, 1024mb, 184RA @ Willowbank Raceway
FGX-351 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 07:58 AM   #11
Sioso
irregular member
 
Sioso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,457
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Top speed was 293km/h so they removed the rev limiter as well then made 297km/h.
Sioso is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 08:35 AM   #12
Sox
RIP...
 
Sox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 15,524
Community Builder: In recognition of those who have helped build the AFF community. - Issue reason: As recommended by Ropcher. Personifies the spirit of AFF. 
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by xr8cam View Post
I can't believe any petrol head regardless of car brand, would say they prefer a V8 without a blower, seriously... Did this guy miss Mad Max I when he was a kid?
I prefer N/A engines, for many reasons.
That's not to say I dislike forced engines, I just prefer N/A.

As for sound, I think not much can match a very high revving N/A Cleveland.

Not bad for the early 80's...

__________________
.
Oval Everywhere...
Sox is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
8 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 09:27 AM   #13
Revolver
Big Member
Donating Member1
 
Revolver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SE Qld
Posts: 5,874
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sox View Post
I prefer N/A engines, for many reasons.
That's not to say I dislike forced engines, I just prefer N/A.

As for sound, I think not much can match a very high revving N/A Cleveland.

Not bad for the early 80's...

Same here. I prefer N/A. Both have pros & cons. I don't like them, whine is cool, but for me the novelty would wear out, same as a blow off valve on a turbo car. I wouldn't go out of my way to own a blown car. Their badass, but not the greatest thing on planet either. Well all have tastes, and that's how arguments start....

In the end it's all opinion and choice.
__________________
The Scarlet Fairlane: 94 5.Slow Litre NC II Fairlane 488800kms & Climbing
Rollin' on genuine ELGT wheels.
K&N Filter
/////Alpine Sound.
EBGT Momo Woodgrain Steering Wheel
The Scarlet Fairlane Build Thread

Project "White Knight"
93 ED XR6
ROH Alloys
Momo wheel
Cruise
Sunroof
Premo Sound
Manual
HO Goodies
PWK Build Thread

1990 Yamaha FZR 250: 59000ks & climbing. New fairing, old tank, my angry mosquito in a coffee tin! 14.977 1/4mile.
Revolver is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 12:16 PM   #14
asagaai
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,791
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolver View Post
Same here. I prefer N/A. Both have pros & cons. I don't like them, whine is cool, but for me the novelty would wear out, same as a blow off valve on a turbo car. I wouldn't go out of my way to own a blown car. Their badass, but not the greatest thing on planet either. Well all have tastes, and that's how arguments start....

In the end it's all opinion and choice.
Yip- everyone has their own take.

I use my FGX XR8 as a daily, and really only hear the whine when I boot it- and never get bored with it.

Drove my brothers AMG C63 for a week- and really missed the front end mechanical cacophony of the Miami blower quad cam.

Miami is like being in the middle of a 3 some, non blown is like vanilla 2 some- not saying this from experience of the analogy- more wishful dreaming......
__________________
Ford Rides:

Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K

FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender
asagaai is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 12:55 PM   #15
Mercury Bullet
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,705
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Couldn't care less about the whine, it's not that loud and certainly not intrusive. Most of the time it's in bypass mode anyway.

I love the power delivery though.
__________________
www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet

2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter.
XC Cobra #181.
1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 24-10-2016, 02:29 PM   #16
mitelsx2000
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
mitelsx2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Paraparaumu, NZ
Posts: 482
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet View Post
Couldn't care less about the whine, it's not that loud and certainly not intrusive. Most of the time it's in bypass mode anyway.

I love the power delivery though.
Same here love the S/C doing its thing better than the wife whining in the passenger seat
__________________
Current Ride: Mustang 2018 Oxford White 5.0 GT

Previous rides: 2011 FPV GTE colour Edge 6-speed Auto, Build #019
BMC Twin air filter, street fighter oil breathers, Window tints & paint protection. CTB Tuned 364 rwKW
XR8 Black Lux pack 2004
Fiesta trend 2017
mitelsx2000 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 08:49 PM   #17
LoudPipes
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 881
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by asagaai View Post
Yip- everyone has their own take.

I use my FGX XR8 as a daily, and really only hear the whine when I boot it- and never get bored with it.

Drove my brothers AMG C63 for a week- and really missed the front end mechanical cacophony of the Miami blower quad cam.

Miami is like being in the middle of a 3 some, non blown is like vanilla 2 some- not saying this from experience of the analogy- more wishful dreaming......

Those piddly sounding AMG C63’s don’t come close to the sound of a blown Miami.

My ears always prefer the sound of a worked over naturally aspirated V8 over anything else and even more so if that is an old school V8.
__________________
Smile - I dare you
LoudPipes is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 09:18 PM   #18
asagaai
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,791
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudPipes View Post
Those piddly sounding AMG C63’s don’t come close to the sound of a blown Miami.

My ears always prefer the sound of a worked over naturally aspirated V8 over anything else and even more so if that is an old school V8.
Thing is his is the sports pack version, ie more free flowing exhaust, and he has extractors as well- so it is really LOUD and aggressive. If you pump the pedal a little before hitting the start button the engine start up sounds like a big bore 500 nitro express rifle cracking its load.

The Miami on start up sounds xxxx beer weak to be honest.

Also, WOT the C63 is deeper and more aggressive than the Miami, although the Miami over 4,000 WOT has a real pushed edge to the exhaust note which is cool.

But, the C63 does not have that supercharger banshee wailing up front, and to me it is Nirvana, the bark behind and the mechanical banshee wail up front WOT- is a unique sound.

Everyone is different- I love the sound of high tech v8s with quad cams and 4 valves, and a supercharger banshee wailing is just an extra cherry on top.

And I have been in cammed supercharged Holden V8s, and although deep and loud from the rear, they do not produce that banshee high tech wail that a Miami does.

The Miami with the quad cam 4 valves and supercharger intake plenum arrangement is something special....in terms of sound up front. Nothing quite like it.

First day I bought my car I uhmm tested it round the Lake that night for uhm some time. The salesman who sold it rang me at work next day, asking - was that you last night at 10.30 - hard to mistake that sound...he lived in Eleebana and recognized the sound...just a classic unique tone.
__________________
Ford Rides:

Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K

FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender

Last edited by asagaai; 23-10-2016 at 09:24 PM.
asagaai is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 24-10-2016, 07:44 PM   #19
Cobra
Bear with a sore head
 
Cobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 3,703
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by asagaai View Post
Yip- everyone has their own take.

I use my FGX XR8 as a daily, and really only hear the whine when I boot it- and never get bored with it.

Drove my brothers AMG C63 for a week- and really missed the front end mechanical cacophony of the Miami blower quad cam.

Miami is like being in the middle of a 3 some, non blown is like vanilla 2 some- not saying this from experience of the analogy- more wishful dreaming......
6.2 or 4.0TT?
Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 24-10-2016, 08:20 PM   #20
asagaai
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,791
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra View Post
6.2 or 4.0TT?
6.2 sports pack, extractors. In manual paddle shift mode it does sound wicked from the rear end, especially on the software mapping rev matching on downchanges....had the sunroof open at all times.
__________________
Ford Rides:

Ford Fiesta ST Mk 8 -daily- closest thing to a go kart on road for under 50K

FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball, running 15% E85 and 85% 98- weekender
asagaai is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 08:56 AM   #21
Professor Farnsworth
Fossil fuel consumer
 
Professor Farnsworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mod For: Pub, Bar, Sales Yard, Show 'N Shine, Photoshop, AU to BF, FG to FGX, Territory & Sports Bar
Posts: 17,057
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Many years of valuable contributions to the forum, including some superb build threads. 
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Blown v8 sounds great, particularly while loaded up a gear higher than what's ideal, or in the right warm evening conditions where it sings away just like a turbo, but I'd happily have a high (or low) powered atmo v8.
__________________
2023 Superb Sportline - Steel Grey
2024 RS 3 Sedan - Mythos Black
2024 Mustang GT - Vapour Blue (on order)
Professor Farnsworth is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 09:43 AM   #22
Professor Farnsworth
Fossil fuel consumer
 
Professor Farnsworth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mod For: Pub, Bar, Sales Yard, Show 'N Shine, Photoshop, AU to BF, FG to FGX, Territory & Sports Bar
Posts: 17,057
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Many years of valuable contributions to the forum, including some superb build threads. 
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

The novelty doesn't wear out, but sometimes I wonder if it's the blower or the dif making the noise. The instant punch also doesn't wear out. Tyres do though.
__________________
2023 Superb Sportline - Steel Grey
2024 RS 3 Sedan - Mythos Black
2024 Mustang GT - Vapour Blue (on order)
Professor Farnsworth is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 10:17 AM   #23
HO 3
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
HO 3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,440
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

The blower sound is subjective to a degree...............the wife recons my stock FG GTP sounds like a sewing machine when you get up it . Her other bench mark for engine sound is usually mechanical cammed Clevelands which might explain this.

Cheers Mick
HO 3 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 10:31 AM   #24
Stefan
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,193
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

IMO Super charger whine is like having an exhaust dropped before he diff...cool for a little while, but can get annoying pretty quickly.

We all have a different tolerance threshold I guess.

Remember every monkey fitting gear drives to their V8 in the 80s / 90s
Stefan is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 03:13 PM   #25
Express
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
 
Express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,530
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Remember every monkey fitting gear drives to their V8 in the 80s / 90s
Having a gear drive in my SBC back in the early 90's made the young boys wet their pants and delve even deeper into Daddy's wallet when it came time to sell.

Engine noise is definitely an aphrodisiac for some and an old school cammed N/A with a free flowing exhaust still gets my juices flowing.
Express is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 04:57 PM   #26
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Express View Post
Having a gear drive in my SBC back in the early 90's made the young boys wet their pants and delve even deeper into Daddy's wallet when it came time to sell.

Engine noise is definitely an aphrodisiac for some and an old school cammed N/A with a free flowing exhaust still gets my juices flowing.
I remember a bunch of mates who loved their red motor powered EH & HR sedans who all got gear drives, they loved em! Back in the days when K-mart sold 12 slotters and super, (petrol), cost $0:45 per/l. I had a RS2000,ported & cammed with twin 45mm Webber's and I often used $100 p/week on petrol!
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 10:34 AM   #27
roddy1960
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,556
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

G'day....Coming from a N/A only owner...I would love either a supercharged V8 Falcon or a 6 Turbo..no logical reason because my FG XR6 is plenty enough in practical reality and ol faithful AU too...
BUT.....Owning a genuine supercharged V8 or I6T would be freakin' awesome fun...Cheers Rod..
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 10:55 AM   #28
GT1158
FPV GT Pilot
 
GT1158's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 10
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

I barely notice the supercharger whine when driving in a normal manner, in traffic or on the freeway it is there but not loud or annoying. It only really starts to sing from 3000rpm onwards. But I don't daily my GT so my perspective may be skewed compared to someone who's in theirs 10 hours a week of more.
GT1158 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 23-10-2016, 11:16 AM   #29
raised by monkeys
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
raised by monkeys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Port Lincoln, SA
Posts: 5,137
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

Apples and oranges; but I much prefer the ride in both my mates' gts' (ve3 and vf1) than my f6 or any other fpv
__________________
cheers
Shaun

Current
SY FPV F6X Territory #214
Previous
FG MkII G6E Turbo built by Heinrichs Performance and Tuning
BFII FPV TORNADO #0021 351rwkw - Heinrich Performance and Tuning

"Milk is for babies. When you grow up you have to drink beer" - Arnold Schwarzenegger
raised by monkeys is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-10-2016, 12:53 PM   #30
CoupeKing
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,318
Default Re: Doesn't like superchargers

They sound great at full noise - I wonder if that has anything to do with the performance factor - and even better if it's bolted onto an engine with some serious testicles.

But If you want a constant-overpowering-whine, just marry Shazza.
CoupeKing is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL