Engine malfunction warning and P244C DTC

[bundybear75]

Hi All,

Sunday evening driving home from work i was greeted by the cursed triangle of hate and the engine malfunction warning. Couldn't get a code from my eds scantool or ultragauge. Borrowed an ELM Bluetooth scanner and got the P244C trouble code using Forscan.

I was able to reset the warning but i haven't yet driven it to see if it will come back.

Dr Google tells me it could be a turbo, a dpf or the fuel vaporizer. Car gets a daily long run (120km each way to work) so I'm hoping not the dpf. Vaporizer would be the cheaper (?) option.

Anyone else had this issue?

[rondeo]

Might be an idea to daily check the soot loading with forscan if you are going to keep driving it, just in case.

If it gets too high (don't know exactly what's too high) the DPF may not regenerate.
The max is usually around 80% on mine.

The differential pressure sensor and hoses are another possibility, and the vapouriser cokes up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=AAPSAnB4G2Q

Hopefully a glitch.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Might be an idea to daily check the soot loading with forscan if you are going to keep driving it, just in case.

If it gets too high (don't know exactly what's too high) the DPF may not regenerate.
The max is usually around 80% on mine.

The differential pressure sensor and hoses are another possibility, and the vapouriser cokes up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=AAPSAnB4G2Q

Hopefully a glitch.

Worked out how to set up the gauges and watched them today driving to work. DPF soot levels started at 90%.

Almost as soon as I started driving the EGT and CAT temps went up to 650'C. Soot levels dropped down to about 25% over about 15/20km then EGT's dropped down to 200ish.

Then the soot levels slowly started building up for the next 50km to around 45% when I returned the ELM scanner to its owner (Rob the Coffee Van Man) and continued the next 50km to work. Looks like the burn must happen every 150/200km?

Some "Googling" at work and I have a OBDLink MX winging its way to me via eBay - I choose this one as it has good reviews from Mondaveo and supports MS CAN. The borrowed one was a V Gate that could be had for a few dollars.

Can you use Forscan to initiate a manual burn on the Mondeo? I had a quick look but didn't have much time to play with it

[rondeo]

The OBDLink MX doesn't quite fit in the closed compartment. I use an extension cable
eg

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30cm-50c...Z1O37__CHII_uw

I velcroed mine outside the compartment where the leds can be seen. The OBDLink MX has a power saving mode where the green led blinks slowly.

I don't think a manual burn should be done willy nilly, only when a fault has prevented regen and has been repaired.

I think regens vary from about 100km to 500 km. I once checked mine at 350km.

[manchu]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Looks like the burn must happen every 150/200km?

That's pretty much the frequency I found when I was actively monitoring DPF burns for a while. That was because of a different fault (P269F), which hasn't returned since.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11460529


My advice is to not stress too much unless the fault comes back again after being cleared.

[GTLEGEND]

Mondeo Vehicles built after 4/2012 have 3 EGT sensors. What your describing and the DTC logged can be caused by a EGT3 sensor malfunction. EGT3 is the one at the rear end of the DPF between the heat shields. EGT2 is in the middle of the DPF, between heat shields and EGT 1 is on the non heat shielded part of the exhaust near the flange of the DPF towards the engine front side . EGT3 has a part number of CG9A-12B591-AC.

I would be checking the EGT3 sensor operation..

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Mondeo Vehicles built after 4/2012 have 3 EGT sensors. What your describing and the DTC logged can be caused by a EGT3 sensor malfunction. EGT3 is the one at the rear end of the DPF between the heat shields. EGT2 is in the middle of the DPF, between heat shields and EGT 1 is on the non heat shielded part of the exhaust near the flange of the DPF towards the engine front side . EGT3 has a part number of CG9A-12B591-AC.

I would be checking the EGT3 sensor operation..

Thanks GTLegend, I have a Bluetooth dongle on the way and I will set some meters up to monitor whats happening when it arrives. I replaced the middle EGT sensor 12 months ago after a run in with a roo carcass. All seems to be going OK so far, I have done around 400km since resetting alarm and no new faults.

Hopefully a glitch when initiating a burn and dropped the error message

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Mondeo Vehicles built after 4/2012 have 3 EGT sensors. What your describing and the DTC logged can be caused by a EGT3 sensor malfunction. EGT3 is the one at the rear end of the DPF between the heat shields. EGT2 is in the middle of the DPF, between heat shields and EGT 1 is on the non heat shielded part of the exhaust near the flange of the DPF towards the engine front side . EGT3 has a part number of CG9A-12B591-AC.

I would be checking the EGT3 sensor operation..

Replaced the EGT3 sensor yesterday (Funnily enough they had one on the shelf at my local Ford).

I'm going to monitor over the next week or two to see how the regens go. Before replacement there was a 200'C difference between sensors during a burn. Hoping to see a smaller differential after replacement.

Bastard of a job to replace. After getting the car high enough to squeeze my (ample) frame underneath I found that the old sensor needed a different size spanner to the new one. I also needed to unbolt and bend out of the way the heat shield to access the probe.

It was #%$^ing tight, I ended up using a larger spanner over the smaller 13mm one to get enough leverage to get it started. I also cut the plug off the old sensor so I could use a ring spanner as I didn't think the flare spanner would take that much force

Hopefully this will stop my DTC issues. This week I will do nearly 1500km commuting to work so any issues should rear their head fairly quickly.

[bundybear75]

So it happened again today. Luckily enough my OBDlink turned up in the post today. Same code, i reset it and went for a drive and the egt's went up to 400C, vaporizer on and then malfunction warning again. Couldn't reset the alarm this time so i took it to a mate who reset it using his snap on scantool.

Went for another drive and burn started again, some of the egt's went to 650C and some only to 400C.

I'm assuming i have a faulty sensor as GTLegend suggested but can anyone tell me which gauge goes to which sensor and also suggest what actual points i should monitor using Forscan?

Thanks in advance.....

[rondeo]

Some explanation of sensor labeling here:

http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1496

And further reading here:

http://www.talkford.com/community/to...roblems-p244c/

What month/year is it?

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Some explanation of sensor labeling here:

http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1496

And further reading here:

http://www.talkford.com/community/to...roblems-p244c/

What month/year is it?

It's late 2012. December i think.

I'm off to bed now 3AM start but i will have a read through those forums tomorrow. Cheers

[cobrin]

I were hoping for your sake it weren't the vaporiser so fingers crossed you've got it.

[bundybear75]

So nearly 1000km since last error message and its back. So it wasn't the sensor, next up I guess is the vaporizer?

I had Forscan up this time and was watching the burn when it errored. When it first started CATEMP11 was 492°C and CATEMP12 was 582°C. After a couple of minutes temps dropped to CATEMP11 497°C and CATEMP12 496°C. Then malfunction warning and vaporizer off.

Previous successful burns have had temps of approx 470° and 620° so something isn't right.

I have reset the CEL and will try again for a burn after the kids bus gets here.

Any ideas?

[rondeo]

The regen temp should be 600 deg +

Relay 4, on stage V cars switches the vaporizer glow plug. Test by substituting with another. Fuse is F6, check contacts. Yours is stage VI though?

The vaporizer is fed fuel from a pump. The pump is controlled by an ecu using pulse width modulation, I google 4Hz and ramping up. I don't know how to test it.

If the vaporizer is fully blocked a vacuum tester will hold vacuum. If partially blocked
it's more difficult to assess, and will need to be removed for inspection.

So I gather googling.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

So nearly 1000km since last error message and its back. So it wasn't the sensor, next up I guess is the vaporizer?

I had Forscan up this time and was watching the burn when it errored. When it first started CATEMP11 was 492°C and CATEMP12 was 582°C. After a couple of minutes temps dropped to CATEMP11 497°C and CATEMP12 496°C. Then malfunction warning and vaporizer off.

Previous successful burns have had temps of approx 470° and 620° so something isn't right.

I have reset the CEL and will try again for a burn after the kids bus gets here.

Any ideas?

So after clearing DTC and a restart it immediately went into burn mode and completed a successful burn. Buggered if I know...... Not so keen to replace the vaporizer (@$400) if that isn't the problem.

Seems like every 5th (?) burn is unsuccessful.....

[rondeo]

Possible DIY solution to vaporizer carbon blocking is to drill and tap into the end of the vaporizer and plug with a 4mm stainless hex head bolt, as per Meguinnes on Talkford.

It's hard to DIY if you're working though. You need expensive tools, and the technology has changed. Ford's information policy doesnt help either.

I'm retired so time is not an issue, and have spent lots on tools. Problem is Ford's unethical attempt to profit.
Information which might help the consumer with mechanical problems such as you are experiencing, is withheld in the hope of earning money. They try to profit by monopolising the service of Ford cars, pathetic really. Are they really that desperate?

[T-Pak Addict]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Possible DIY solution to vaporizer carbon blocking is to drill and tap into the end of the vaporizer and plug with a 4mm stainless hex head bolt, as per Meguinnes on Talkford.

It's hard to DIY if you're working though. You need expensive tools, and the technology has changed. Ford's information policy doesnt help either.

I'm retired so time is not an issue, and have spent lots on tools. Problem is Ford's unethical attempt to profit.
Information which might help the consumer with mechanical problems such as you are experiencing, is withheld in the hope of earning money. They try to profit by monopolising the service of Ford cars, pathetic really. Are they really that desperate?

I did this and saved myself $400, Thanks for this info it saved me some big $$$ Mine just fully coked up (185k) drilled and tapped with a M5 Tap and M5 Allen Key bolt. Cleaned it all out run some degreaser thru in and blew the rest out with compressed air.

[Mondaveo]

I watched some videos. Might be useful to you?

https://youtu.be/AAPSAnB4G2Q
https://youtu.be/yop_WFCHvuc
https://youtu.be/9Tm_y02fGPw

Seems like for P244C it may be the vaporiser.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

I watched some videos. Might be useful to you?

https://youtu.be/AAPSAnB4G2Q
https://youtu.be/yop_WFCHvuc
https://youtu.be/9Tm_y02fGPw

Seems like for P244C it may be the vaporiser.

Yeah thinking you may be right.

The code is starting to come up more often now, so I need to sort it out. I did consider drilling it out and plugging the end as per Meguinnes on Talkford method but I can't afford to have it off the road for too long if it doesn't work (my other car uses $150 in diesel per 3 days if I have to drive it)

I'll order in a new vaporiser and change it out. Does anyone know if it comes with the glow plug or is that ordered separately? Hopefully that will solve my issues as I'd like to get a few more years out of this car.....

[rondeo]

The vapouriser part includes the glow plug and nozzle.

When replacing the vaporiser keep an eye on fuel dripping from the supply hose. Best to plug it with a drill bit or similar when you disconnect. Reason: the pump may not self prime if emptied of fuel.

Best to test first before replacing, but won't hurt to have a new unit at this stage (200,000km).

Normal resistance of glow plug is about 1 ohm, I see.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by rondeo

The vapouriser part includes the glow plug and nozzle.

When replacing the vaporiser keep an eye on fuel dripping from the supply hose. Best to plug it with a drill bit or similar when you disconnect. Reason: the pump may not self prime if emptied of fuel.

Best to test first before replacing, but won't hurt to have a new unit at this stage (200,000km).

Normal resistance of glow plug is about 1 ohm, I see.

My only concern with replacing this is at this stage it is an intermittent fault. Usually after resetting codes the system does an successful burn. Hoping to get 400+K km out of this so I am a bit concerned that I'm starting to have some niggling issues at 200K

[Highway cruser]

I had a similar issue, didn't get the code the first time so assuming the code was the same the first time as it was the second. There was a few weeks between the first fault code which cleared its self. The second time I got the code P269F which is a similar thing as I understand it, relating to the vapourisor. I also do about 1500kms a week and this happened on the Friday afternoon so no time to do anything to sort it out at a shop. So I striped the vapourisor out the exhaust. The first time I tried to blow through the fuel line it felt very restricted, not what I was expecting. I gave it a few good squirts of MAF cleaner, the only thing I had at the time and didn't want to use anything to harsh. Afterwords I blew through fuel line and it was a lot easier to blow through.
I tested the vapourisor before this and got the 1 ohms that has been mentioned earlier so wasn't convinced the vapourisor was the issue, but had found information that they can carbon up as also mentioned.
I refitted to the car and went for a drive and as soon as I hit 100kph a regen started. That was over a month ago and I haven't seen a reoccurance since and I've done several thousand kilometres since.
The vapourisor is very tight to get out. I gave it a soak in WD40 for 20 minutes or so after trying to get it out without it. After the soak it moved but still was very tigh to move.
I would recommend a good quality long handled spanner not the statandard length.

[bundybear75]

So I bit the bullet and replaced the vaporiser. Trade price was a little over $420 at my local Ford. I could of got one cheaper off eBay but as the Mondeo got to the stage that it wouldn't complete a burn it was costing me $50 a day to drive my Cruiser.....

Attempted to change it myself but laying under the car (on ramps) using a long handled 22mm spanner and 3 foot of pipe I couldn't get enough of a swing at the nut to undo it.
I took it in to my mate the mechanic and lifted it up on his hoist and one of his boys changed it for me. Took a crows foot socket and a 3 foot bar to get it undone.

Definitely the cause, the hole was all but blocked up with carbon. After changing it did a complete burn and the soot levels have remained lower (only building up to 40% after 200km) than before where it was burning every 150/200km.

Time will tell but hopefully a win.

[bundybear75]

Well the saga continues.....

When I got home Thursday PM the Mondeo had just started a burn, so I left it running (at idle) for 10 minutes whilst it completed.

Started up this morning to drive to work (i didn't have Forscan up) and Engine Malfunction warning again and this time limp mode.

Pulled over and scanned, got DTC P2002C - DPF efficiency below threshold

Reset OK and monitored the gauges. the DPF_LOAD gauge was at 0% and DPF_SOOT_LD at 25%

After about 5 minutes of driving the DPF_LOAD jumped from 0% to 25% and climbed as normal to 61% by the time I got to work (120km). It should be due for a burn about half way home so hopefully will complete a successful burn and continue on.

I have to say I'm about over these DPF problems.....

[rondeo]

Maybe prolonged idling can lead to P2002, which is a temporary loss of regen efficiency due to low engine load?

With my car I don't allow the engine to idle if a regen is in progress. I just switch the engine off. It will sort itself out next time.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Maybe prolonged idling can lead to P2002, which is a temporary loss of regen efficiency due to low engine load?

With my car I don't allow the engine to idle if a regen is in progress. I just switch the engine off. It will sort itself out next time.

Might be the better option. For the last two years I have just turned it off at the end of a journey blissfully unaware of what the DPF was doing. Maybe a lap up the road and back whilst it finishes would be better (or just leave Forscan turned off...)

These problems are concerning, I have just had the DPF's and injectors replaced in my Landcruiser (under warranty thank god $13000 in parts alone). This was due to an overfuelling issue with the early DPF Cruisers leading to excessive soot and smoke.

My next step will probably be a (off road use only) DPF delete.....

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Might be the better option. For the last two years I have just turned it off at the end of a journey blissfully unaware of what the DPF was doing. Maybe a lap up the road and back whilst it finishes would be better (or just leave Forscan turned off...)

These problems are concerning, I have just had the DPF's and injectors replaced in my Landcruiser (under warranty thank god $13000 in parts alone). This was due to an overfuelling issue with the early DPF Cruisers leading to excessive soot and smoke.

My next step will probably be a (off road use only) DPF delete.....

Fingers crossed the problem is solved!

I have done over 2000km since the last error message and all seems to be working properly. Burns seem to work at a regular interval and car is running well.

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Well the saga continues.....

When I got home Thursday PM the Mondeo had just started a burn, so I left it running (at idle) for 10 minutes whilst it completed.

Started up this morning to drive to work (i didn't have Forscan up) and Engine Malfunction warning again and this time limp mode.

Pulled over and scanned, got DTC P2002C - DPF efficiency below threshold

Reset OK and monitored the gauges. the DPF_LOAD gauge was at 0% and DPF_SOOT_LD at 25%

After about 5 minutes of driving the DPF_LOAD jumped from 0% to 25% and climbed as normal to 61% by the time I got to work (120km). It should be due for a burn about half way home so hopefully will complete a successful burn and continue on.

I have to say I'm about over these DPF problems.....

Same happened to me this afternoon: engine malfunction warning and limp mode!

Pulled over and scanned:

DTC P2002C - DPF efficiency below threshold

The DPF_LOAD gauge was at 0% and DPF_SOOT_LD at 32%.

Some time later after restarting the DPF_LOAD value was 43%.

Did some googling and found this interesting forum post, post #4:

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/...2-code-311269/

The DPF_LOAD value is calculated by the pcm from various input data from the engine management system etc. In other words it's what the pcm thinks it should be.

On the other hand DPF_SOOT_LD is inferred from the pressure differential across the DPF.

Anyway I took a look at the hoses to the pressure sensor and they were fine.

I'll keep driving it as is, on the assumption that there has been a glitch, or else an intermittent sensor/circuit fault.

[rondeo]

Ooops I got DPF_SOOT and DPF_LOAD round the wrong way in my last post.

Though not specifically about Mondeo this text from Fordservice.com is indicative of the sort of strategies used to flag a P002
DTC:

'The DPF Filter Efficiency monitor compares the calculated restriction (from a sensor measuring delta pressure
across the DPF) to the expected restriction calculated from a soot model (using various engine sensors as inputs).
After a successful regeneration event, the monitor waits for DPF temperatures to fall below a threshold (400 degC,
to allow for an accurate soot estimate)and for a small quantity of soot to build up in the DPF (approx 3 grams). At
this point, the monitor performs a filtering routine on the calculated restriction (from deltaP sensor) and locks in the
initial restriction. Once sufficient soot has built up in the DPF (based on integrated soot from the soot model), the
monitor will repeat the filtering routine on the calculated restriction (from deltaP sensor) and from the estimated
soot in the DPF (from soot model). The ratio of restrictions (actual vs soot estimate) is compared to a threshold. If
the ratio is less than a threshold, an error flag is set. The monitor allows for multiple monitoring sessions in order to
provide debouncing before declaring the monitor as a pass or fail. When a sufficient number of sessions have
been completed, the monitor is declared complete. The number of sessions with a failed result is compared to a
threshold. If the number of failed sessions is greater than a threshold, the monitor is declared as failed and the
code is set.'

[cobrin]

Thanks for the update bundy


I had to back out of the garage last week cause I noticed mine were doing a regen, fuel consumption display were high at idle ~3L/hr and any pedal input saw it rise from 9L (light input) to 53L (foot flat) and the fan going full tilt, temp nice and hot and slight rough running from normal. So back out I go and give it 'a darn good seeing to'.



Well one massive black smoke cloud from standstill in sport mode 1st gear, must have cleared its bowels cause it settled back to normal after that. I never got to give it a run this week/month will do next weekend.


Have Behana Gorge to check out.