Window tinting and the long arm of the law

chamb0 · 21-02-2013, 10:32 PM

A question about the legalities of window tinting in Victoria.

Today Mum had her old Ford Maverick wagon tinted. She wanted a nice tint in order to keep as cool as possible while towing around her horsefloat, and to prevent her horsey gear from fading in the cargo area. She is very keen however to stay within the confines of the law.

The advice from the tinter in person was that the regulations had recently changed in regard to wagons, and although 35% was still the legal limit for the front door windows, the rear door windows and the cargo area could now go darker. He said this was different to sedans which still require all windows to be no more than 35%. We said that we were happy to go ahead with this as long as it was legal. He assured us that it was, so on went PRE35% front and the rest MNM17%. They did a nice job of it.

However Mum has returned home and worried over the invoice, which states (for the 17% tint items):

THIS TINT TO YOUR VEHICLE WILL RENDER IT NON-COMPLIANT WITH ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATIONS. IT HAS BEEN APPLIED ON YOUR INSTRUCTION. WE WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY DIRECT OR INDIRECT LIABILITY FOR ANY COST OR DAMAGE AS A RESULT OF IT.

Looking online, I can't find any evidence to support the tinter's assertions that it's okay to go darker on the back. VicRoads still say:

All windows of a motor vehicle, other than windscreens, available to the driver to obtain a view of the road or other road users must have a light transmittance of at least 35%. However it is desirable that the light transmittance of windows to the side and ahead of the driver is not reduced below 70%.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd.../0/VSI2web.pdf

As it stands, if her car is not strictly roadworthy, she will have it changed. Can anyone shed any light on this? Many thanks in advance.

roberts · 21-02-2013, 10:37 PM

not legit, get it all 35%. Tinters in my experance struggle to iinterpret the laws

EA30TH · 21-02-2013, 10:46 PM

Load areas can go to 20% from memory, but on a wagon that could be an interpretation I wouldn't want to discuss with the highway bandits in VIC. You'd have a chance with ned kelly, but VicPol frisk your wallet first, and don't care later.

block58 · 21-02-2013, 10:52 PM

From factory, the rear windows of some Territories, Klugers and Subarus come with a privacy tint which I'm sure is darker than 35%

chamb0 · 21-02-2013, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by block58

From factory, the rear windows of some Territories, Klugers and Subarus come with a privacy tint which I'm sure is darker than 35%

image

Yes, that looks a lot darker. My understanding is that any factory tint is acceptable, but aftermarket must comply with the 35% limit.

tranquilized · 22-02-2013, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by block58

From factory, the rear windows of some Territories, Klugers and Subarus come with a privacy tint which I'm sure is darker than 35%

I see a lot of cars getting around like that, and it looks absolutely ridiculous. It really looks like the front window got smashed and replaced without the tint...

Mrs P · 21-02-2013, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by block58

From factory, the rear windows of some Territories, Klugers and Subarus come with a privacy tint which I'm sure is darker than 35%

[

My new territory came with the factory privacy glass on the back half - it's the glass itself that is manufactured with colour in it, it's not an actual tint. It doesn't look as dark as this photo though.
We've been advised to get a clear tint over it to provide uv protection, and a coloured tint on the front half to match as close as possible.

XrRabbit · 22-02-2013, 12:43 AM

I have been told different things from different tinters. I'm not to sure about the actually law. But I have 25% all round expect the front window. Had that for nearly 2 years. I get pulled over all the time (just for driving a nice loud car) and I haven't had any trouble with it.

A lot of imports come with 20-30% on the rear windows.

It's not road legal what you have there but you won't lose your car over it. Just don't ask the cops about it and you will be fine.

If you do get picked up on it, just say that tinter said it was ok for the rear doors to be that dark, as I don't look out of them. I'm sorry about that. They will give you a writen defect, so no sticker and you have 14 days to get it changed. No fine or points lost. Unless you take longer then the 14 days to fix it.

Dusty1 · 22-02-2013, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs P

My new territory came with the factory privacy glass on the back half - it's the glass itself that is manufactured with colour in it, it's not an actual tint. It doesn't look as dark as this photo though.
We've been advised to get a clear tint over it to provide uv protection, and a coloured tint on the front half to match as close as possible.

Interestingly, I had the rear three windows on my Titanium replaced last year because the tint was bubbling. Maybe I got a dark film over old glass as it hasn't changed?

Since this was done, I've had no issue with it.

I would stick with the rules and not believe what a tinter tells me.

LTDHO · 22-02-2013, 07:32 AM

Since when has Ford ever had factory tint (film)???

35% is darkest legal on passenger windows.

block58 · 22-02-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Since when has Ford ever had factory tint (film)???

35% is darkest legal on passenger windows.

I don't think its a tint film, just built into the glass some how. Came out with SYII Territory Ghia.

**GasoLane** · 22-02-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by block58

I don't think its a tint film, just built into the glass some how.

Where do you think all your green wine bottles finish up

MDS69 · 22-02-2013, 07:58 AM

No knowledge on the rules but couldn't the cargo area be considered the same as say a Hiace van with no windows. You can't look out of them (steel panels).

4.0i_SiX · 22-02-2013, 08:08 AM

Check with your local RTA. I know in QLD as long as you have 2 mirrors then the rear windows can be completely blocked. I have looked into it because there is a company that sells panels to block out and insulate the rear cargo area of 4x4 wagons for people with fridges etc. Its no different to owning a windowless van or pantec truck

http://articles.pubarticles.com/bris...805,56756.html

mac_man_luke · 22-02-2013, 09:46 AM

my ranger has the same, although does not look quite as dark.

Mrs P · 22-02-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Since when has Ford ever had factory tint (film)???

35% is darkest legal on passenger windows.

See my post below - its privacy glass, not actual tinting. Does not block out ANY UV etc so you still need to do a clear tint over the top.

I agree that it looks silly to have the windows not matching, even when you tint the front it will never fully match. I would have preferred to get plain glass on my new Terri but its not an option unless you pay to have the windows replaced!

outback_ute · 22-02-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs P

See my post below - its privacy glass, not actual tinting. Does not block out ANY UV etc so you still need to do a clear tint over the top.

I agree that it looks silly to have the windows not matching, even when you tint the front it will never fully match. I would have preferred to get plain glass on my new Terri but its not an option unless you pay to have the windows replaced!

Falcons have had UV tinted glass for over 15 years.

Also many cars have a slight tint to the glass itself from the factory (ie it is not completely clear), so when 35% tint is added it ends up being too dark and can be defected. This can be easily seen by comparing the view through a partly-down door window to the view above the glass.

Vincenzo · 22-02-2013, 03:49 PM

Under NT Regulations, front must be no darker than 35%, with rears and back window no darker than 15%. Here is link to Pdf on MVR site.

http://transport.nt.gov.au/__data/as...g-Dec-2012.pdf

Cheers Vincenzo

roberts · 22-02-2013, 04:12 PM

"safety glass" can be as dark as you want

FGII-XR6 · 22-02-2013, 10:23 AM

call Vic roads and get your answer there as you can see you are getting different answers here as you always will , opinions seem to become face here and can land you in trouble.

naddis01 · 22-02-2013, 11:02 AM

As above, get onto Vic roads and get the facts, although I think you already know they answer from your first post.

xisled · 22-02-2013, 02:08 PM

What is the difference with adding tint, than blocking out the back windows for advertising.

usernametaken · 22-02-2013, 02:14 PM

What's the go with back windows on utes?

35% front windows and 17% back ok?

\edit: nevermind found out it's ok from here:

Windows
All windows of a motor vehicle, other than windscreens, available to the driver to obtain a view of the road or other road users must have a light transmittance of at least 35%. However it is desirable that the light transmittance of windows to the side and ahead of the driver is not reduced below 70%.
Note
Windows above or behind the driver’s seating position on some buses are not in the driver’s field of view and need not comply with the above light transmittance requirement.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rd.../0/VSI2web.pdf

FGII-XR6 · 22-02-2013, 02:17 PM

As I said above you need to go to who ever regulates this in your state RTA, Vicroads etc you will get 50 different answers on here, probably all wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernametaken

What's the go with back windows on utes?

35% front windows and 17% back ok?

chamb0 · 22-02-2013, 02:58 PM

Just called VicRoads. The link I posted in post 1 covers it all - vehicles must comply with ADR 8, strictly limited to 35% for all windows (windscreen must be 70% or higher), whether sedan, wagon or ute. The only exception is for factory tint from the manufacturer.

Chippa666 · 22-02-2013, 05:13 PM

I've had legal tint on the front windows of my car and full limo tint ( 5-7%) on the 1/4 windows and rear window for over 5 years now. I've raced the car like that and been through a random roadworthy checking station as well numerous booze buses and I've been pulled over for a random check and got defected for my tyres, questioned about the noise it made but not once in the 5 years have they ever commented on my tint. I don't think it's a major concern for most police officers. I've only seen them pick on tint when they have nabbed modified cars or idiot drivers and they go right through the car looking for as many faults as possible to get it off the road.
I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it as I doubt she will have issues from the police on it, but if she does she can just take it back and get the idiot to change it for her.

chamb0 · 22-02-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippa666

I've had legal tint on the front windows of my car and full limo tint ( 5-7%) on the 1/4 windows and rear window for over 5 years now. I've raced the car like that and been through a random roadworthy checking station as well numerous booze buses and I've been pulled over for a random check and got defected for my tyres, questioned about the noise it made but not once in the 5 years have they ever commented on my tint. I don't think it's a major concern for most police officers. I've only seen them pick on tint when they have nabbed modified cars or idiot drivers and they go right through the car looking for as many faults as possible to get it off the road.
I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it as I doubt she will have issues from the police on it, but if she does she can just take it back and get the idiot to change it for her.

I agree, it's not likely to be picked on, but she asked for a compliant tint, and possibly didn't get what she paid for.

chamb0 · 22-02-2013, 05:16 PM

Looks like it's getting complicated - the tinter insists that the regulations they work with are in accordance with VicRoads, that there is a distinction between wagons and sedans... and even said that if one rings up VicRoads 3 times you'll get 3 different answers... I don't believe that. I have actually rung them 3 times and the advice is consistent...

I've run out of time today to take it further but VicRoads recommends calling their RWC specialists in Camberwell on Monday. Hopefully I can get to the core of the matter there. Consumer Affairs recommends obtaining a VicRoads letter containing the guidelines and presenting it to the tinter, and if still no luck, take it to VCAT. They said the case could get tricky since it was a verbal agreement. See how we go. Hrrggh!

svo supporter · 23-02-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamb0

Looks like it's getting complicated - the tinter insists that the regulations they work with are in accordance with VicRoads, that there is a distinction between wagons and sedans... and even said that if one rings up VicRoads 3 times you'll get 3 different answers... I don't believe that. I have actually rung them 3 times and the advice is consistent...

I've run out of time today to take it further but VicRoads recommends calling their RWC specialists in Camberwell on Monday. Hopefully I can get to the core of the matter there. Consumer Affairs recommends obtaining a VicRoads letter containing the guidelines and presenting it to the tinter, and if still no luck, take it to VCAT. They said the case could get tricky since it was a verbal agreement. See how we go. Hrrggh!

I can see it getting very messy......Your Mum has asked for the darkest legal tint yet the tinters have provided a letter stating the car maybe unroadworthy due to the tint, that was requested by your Mum. ie covering their asses if the car is defected for the tint....

In hindsight (which is wonderful), perhaps she shouldn't have picked the car up, with the tint on it that maybe unroadworthy and demanded tint be placed that is deemed roadworthy.

I'm not defending this place as I think it's a low act with what they've done, however it might help in the future should this situation ever arise again...

Good luck with it all...

chamb0 · 25-02-2013, 01:19 PM

This issue has been resolved in mum's favour. I spoke with VicRoad's Vehicle Fitness Section and their Vehicle Safety Line, all were very clear in their advice that her particular vehicle (1991 Ford Maverick wagon) would be rendered non-compliant with that tint. They referred to the Dept. of Infrastructure's current ADR 8/00 "Safety Glazing Material," which is summarised in the link in my first post. According to them, there is no room for the light transmission regulations to be interpreted in any other way, shape or form for her car.

I spoke to the tinting business manager with this information and he still maintained he was correct ("her car is classed as a large car, the regulations are different"). When I challenged him which regulations he works to, he just backed down and said to bring the car in and they will change it free of charge.

Hope that helps someone else should they find themselves in the same situation. Be sure to check your invoice before you leave, don't trust the tinter's interpretation of the law and indicate you will take it further if need be.

The confounding factor for Mum was that his verbal assurances were much louder than the statement on the invoice.