'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?

[Sprintey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txXH9_lNZ7o

What does everyone reckon about this topic?

Any experiences, good or bad? Did it save you? Did it annoy you?

Are some cars better, are some more notorious than others?

[smoo]

It’s a compensator for pure incompetence, and lazy and bad driving habits.
Worse case scenario, look at the health and safety money spinning industry and the absolute window licking retards who are a product of it.
I’m thinking of anyone who works on a mine site. Void of any common sense and needs to be told how to wipe their own ****.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by smoo

Worse case scenario, look at the health and safety money spinning industry and the absolute window licking retards who are a product of it.

Compliance in general. Everything requires certification, and for what? The most ridiculous thing I've seen recently is someone post-landscaping reno offering up free fill, and the Karens come out of the woodwork asking if it's 'certified'. FMD.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by b0son

Compliance in general. Everything requires certification, and for what? The most ridiculous thing I've seen recently is someone post-landscaping reno offering up free fill, and the Karens come out of the woodwork asking if it's 'certified'. FMD.

It does sounds silly asking.

Until someone has given you "free" landfill that contains Red imported fire ant (RIFA) (Solenopsis invicta), one of the worst invasive species to reach Australia that can cause extensive damage to ecological and agricultural systems.

Or soil infected with fungus Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. cubense (Foc) (aka. Panama disease), which is one of the most destructive plant diseases of modern times.

Or soils that contain acid sulfate, which are soils are natural sediments that contain iron sulfides. It can kill both plants and animinals.

(As an aside to a discussion in another thread, acid sulfate soils are problematic when undergrounding overhead powerlines in certain locations. It can blow the project budget clean out of the water.)

Certainly around where I live, both fire ants and acid sulfate soils are highly problematic. I would be hesitant to accept any freebies.

[.:4:.]

I found it funny when my late father bought his second wife an audi with all the bells and whistles to replace her holden frontera (the less cool version of an isuzu mu). She complained about the beeps (when blindspot monitors go nuts because you are about to sideswipe another car or tree), the shaking steering wheel ( lane keep, it doesnt do that if you are not swerving in your lane), and the intermittent brakes slamming on and hazzards flashing. Again, that was the frontal crash avoidance. Well, no one else had any issues in the q5. It was a nice car, nothing wrong with it at all. My dads wife just could not drive. But it was way easier to blame the car.
I still beleive in darwinism. Put every learner in a manual crapper with no abs brakes or backup camera and make them actually learn how to drive.

[MITCHAY]

I always turn off all these aids where you can when I drive modern car which is not often.

My daily driver (manual) has none of these aids and I get by just fine and that is what I like

[Rallye Sport]

I've actually found it makes driving safer for me, it's saved my bacon a couple of times.

I don't have any driver aids in my cars but I'm sure glad the people around me do.
Just this week driving down the freeway old mate slaps on the indicator and without even glancing in the mirror starts to come across. The car took over and stuck him right back in his lane the look of shock and surprise on his face was priceless. Not that he seemed to care, he even went for a second swing at it

Lets face it no one values driving standards anymore even on an enthusiasts forum like this you have to wonder sometimes.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I always turn off all these aids where you can when I drive modern car which is not often.

My daily driver (manual) has none of these aids and I get by just fine and that is what I like

This begs the question: say you turn off the ones you don't like (every time...) and are in an accident, what might the response of the insurance company be?

Found I personally had to act as one of the safety assistance beepers in the week, took uni child on mountain hike and got them to drive back, freshly minted on Ps. Coming from 100 zone to left dish-off lane to road to town, they were coming in pretty hot, so I went "brake," and we kept going, so then "break.... break! brakebreakbrakebrake brakebrake!!!". They had put foot on the accelerator instead of the brake. A last second application, and we got around the corner.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

This begs the question: say you turn off the ones you don't like (every time...) and are in an accident, what might the response of the insurance company be?

If the car maker allows these options to be turned off, then the insurance company can do nothing if you are involved in accident, as it is not a mandatory requirement.

Cheers.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Itsme

If the car maker allows these options to be turned off, then the insurance company can do nothing if you are involved in accident, as it is not a mandatory requirement.

Cheers.

as they are now part of the ANCAP/NCAP score, does that mean they can't be turned off permanently? ANCAP isn't a legal thing, but I doubt any insurer would look favorably if you did inhibit them.

[383hq]

Originally Posted by simon varley

as they are now part of the ANCAP/NCAP score, does that mean they can't be turned off permanently? ANCAP isn't a legal thing, but I doubt any insurer would look favorably if you did inhibit them.

Correct. In an effort to reduce "human error" ANCAP was written up so:

the system needs to be default ON at the start of every journey and deactivation of the system should not be possible with a momentary single push on a button.

Personally, in the real world, with such increased complexity of systems, there are now critical times when driving work load actually increases with focus shifting inside the car, not out. Single button is quick. Multiple touch screens/warning lights/beeps not so much.

[b0son]

The blindspot warning can be handy, but the emergency braking picks up parked cars too easily and panics approaching 2-lane roundabouts where someone is stopped at the inside lane.

[Charliewool]

2021 Escape here and i don’t mind them at all.. None are any inconvenience and rarely kick in anyhow.
Now and again you’ll get the flashing “collision imminent” if someone merges too close in front of you, but car has never automatically braked..
Some are even a great thing.. reversing out of a parking spot when view blocked by a van parked beside you for example.. Gives a beep or 2 to let you know someones coming..
And the flashing thing in side mirrors good too especially when a motorbike sneaks into l/h blind spot..

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

2021 Escape here and i don’t mind them at all.. None are any inconvenience and rarely kick in anyhow.
Now and again you’ll get the flashing “collision imminent” if someone merges too close in front of you, but car has never automatically braked..
Some are even a great thing.. reversing out of a parking spot when view blocked by a van parked beside you for example.. Gives a beep or 2 to let you know someones coming..
And the flashing thing in side mirrors good too especially when a motorbike sneaks into l/h blind spot..

My Puma does that imminent collision flashing but never emergency brakes whereas my prev Skoda did and saved my bacon when an l plater merged into my lane
My front proximity beepers beep if I m stopped at a light with a nib wall beside me
Lane keep turned off permanently
Stop start turned off every trip
Rear traffic alert is great
Blind spot assist is great
Active cruise control is great
Beeping at
Me to check
There’s nobody in the rear seat when I park annoys me

[prktkljokr]

Went to a crash 1 day, old lady with a brand new Golf, she had gone to her daughters to show her the brand new car she had just picked up, pulled into the driveway and placed her foot on the brake, she noticed that she should move further up but being cautious she left her foot resting on the brake, she presses the accelerator to move and got nothing so she pushed a bit further, at the same time she released the brake and the car took off slamming through the roller door into her daughters car parked inside pushing it through the kitchen wall.

Now I cant understand why they would cut the accelerator when the brake is applied anyway, and what circumstance would this be necessary poor old lady had never experienced this in her old Micra and was just driving the new Golf the same way she always had.

I think that these aids should be a option that you can turn off and turn back on yourself, if you think you need them, I hate my Wife's car stop start, and I hate how I have to turn it off every time I get in, it should be the other way around and if I want it on I turn it on when I get in.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Went to a crash 1 day, old lady with a brand new Golf, she had gone to her daughters to show her the brand new car she had just picked up, pulled into the driveway and placed her foot on the brake, she noticed that she should move further up but being cautious she left her foot resting on the brake, she presses the accelerator to move and got nothing so she pushed a bit further, at the same time she released the brake and the car took off slamming through the roller door into her daughters car parked inside pushing it through the kitchen wall.

Now I cant understand why they would cut the accelerator when the brake is applied anyway, and what circumstance would this be necessary poor old lady had never experienced this in her old Micra and was just driving the new Golf the same way she always had.

I think that these aids should be a option that you can turn off and turn back on yourself, if you think you need them, I hate my Wife's car stop start, and I hate how I have to turn it off every time I get in, it should be the other way around and if I want it on I turn it on when I get in.

??? Electric brake

Vw are finicky things with even a normal pull up handbrake
I find it best to apply release hand brake in vw with the engine off because of the dsg transmission characteristics
My Puma is the same
I never use the hand brake when driving or at lights etc
Even on a hill start if you try and use the handbrake on a dsg transmission it will surprise you

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by kevino

??? Electric brake

Vw are finicky things with even a normal pull up handbrake
I find it best to apply release hand brake in vw with the engine off because of the dsg transmission characteristics
My Puma is the same
I never use the hand brake when driving or at lights etc
Even on a hill start if you try and use the handbrake on a dsg transmission it will surprise you

No not handbrake, if you touch the foot brake with the accelerator pressed it cuts the accelerator, if you let the brake go it accelerates, she might have had the accelerator mashed?, anyway she wrote off a 2 hour old car, here daughters car and killed a kitchen wall.

[vztrt]

Guess it depends on the AIDs itself. Abs and esp are good tech, people panic or don't know how to get out of a situation when in trouble.
ACC radar, I'm not a fan. I'd prefer just to have the speed I set and I'll work out if I want to slow down and tail someone or if I'll go around.
360 camera is cool, don't mind that one... especially with modern vehicles having worse visibility.
The steering assist, blind spot monitoring, AEB really don't want it.
Personally would prefer to be able to set and forget these features as opposed to having to turn it off every time (I know it's for 5 star ENCAP ratings), or be able to not have the features in the vehicles and have a cheaper purchase price.

[roKWiz]

yes..........electronic crap.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

2021 Escape here and i don’t mind them at all.. None are any inconvenience and rarely kick in anyhow.
Now and again you’ll get the flashing “collision imminent” if someone merges too close in front of you, but car has never automatically braked..
Some are even a great thing.. reversing out of a parking spot when view blocked by a van parked beside you for example.. Gives a beep or 2 to let you know someones coming..
And the flashing thing in side mirrors good too especially when a motorbike sneaks into l/h blind spot..

I agree.
Our Tucson Highlander has a stack of all the so called 'bad tech'
Some of it i really find handy, radar cruise ive found is handy, particularly if someone in front is doing say 113/110, but sometimes it can be a small time before i realise the car in front was under the limit on a dual lane highway and i can overtake them
Rear traffic alert reversing out of parks as you said is also very handy.
I do find with ours the lane departure can be a little invasive but i can deal with it no issue.
Its a basic feature these days, reverse camera, but i still find myself turning around when reversing.
It also has a 360 degree camera which is handy when im parking it.

What i dont agree with is driving school cars having it. They've been dumbed down enough to only be capable to get an automatic licence, let alone having some 'help' from the car. (i seen a driving school car with someone learning have a lane departure light in the side mirror come on as i went by).

[kevino]

There must be a few repeats of this with all these turbo Chinese four cyl suvs with dual clutch autos
The engine turbo and auto don’t work in unision and there is sfa acceleration on depressing accelerator give it a touch more and the turbo kicks in and it’s rockets to the moon stuff hard to accelerate away smoothly and of course fwd and worn tyres add another dimension

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by kevino

There must be a few repeats of this with all these turbo Chinese four cyl suvs with dual clutch autos
The engine turbo and auto don’t work in unision and there is sfa acceleration on depressing accelerator give it a touch more and the turbo kicks in and it’s rockets to the moon stuff hard to accelerate away smoothly and of course fwd and worn tyres add another dimension

Not sure if that was in reply to my post.
But ours isnt DCT, and its AWD not FWD albeit FWD biased. Never had any of the issues you've stated.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Not sure if that was in reply to my post.
But ours isnt DCT, and its AWD not FWD albeit FWD biased. Never had any of the issues you've stated.

No your car is Korean
Was in response to
PRCtkl jokers post about a Golf driving through a house

[roKWiz]

Can they invent something to make drivers look over their shoulder before doing a U turn in front of others.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Can they invent something to make drivers look over their shoulder before doing a U turn in front of others.

God did that, its called a neck. Then humans worked out reflections, that evolved into the invention of mirrors, then some genius automotive engineer thought it was a good idea to integrate them into automobiles. But its 2024......

[simon varley]

more dangerous? only indirectly. as the sheep rely on it more and more, their concentration on anything outside the car becomes less and less. That's what's dangerous not the ADAS features themseles

[T3rminator]

In theory, should be safer for people getting on with age where reflexes and mindfulness isn't as sharp as they used to be. I say in theory, because it can be hard to teach (some) old dogs new tricks, and they probably would just ignore all the bells and warnings anyway.

My dad is a prime example. How the fudge do you still back into a pole when the car is yelling at you that there is something close behind?!?!?!

[.:4:.]

Its when people rely on safety stuff. Then there are people with the same mindset as myself. Its nice to know a car has safety features, complain about paying for full comprehensive car insurance, but you never want to use any of that stuff. Even if your car has the blindspot light thing in the mirror, you should still do a head check before changing lanes. Im very much on the fence about reverse cameras as in, if you are looking at the infotainment screen you arent looking where you are going. I prefer parking sensors for that reason. They beep regardless of if its a solid object or a child.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txXH9_lNZ7o

Any experiences, good or bad? Did it save you? Did it annoy you?

I think electronic driving aids fall into two categories. Those that work and are good. Those that need more work and trigger needlessly.

Take ABS/ESC. I know for a fact that a good driver can outperform ABS/ECS. I have seen it done in advanced driver training by professional drivers and (at the end of my training) I too was able to beat ABS in braking distance by a small margin. But that was in controlled conditions when I knew exactly what to expect and I had been primed for the conditions.

A few weeks ago, on a dark and wet night, I was travelling up Corodelia St, South Brisbane in the right hand lane. A pedestrian on the RHS - with headphones on and looking ahead (no traffic on that part of the one-way street) - randomly decided now would be a good time to cross the street. Without looking behind her, stepped off the curb just in front of me. This triggered a startled response out of me and without thinking I completely mashed the brake to the floor as hard as I could. Thanks to the ABS & ECS, we pulled up in time. The car tracked straight and didn't follow the camber of the road into a waiting power pole. Saved by the electronics.

When I had the Outlander PHEV, I had a love hate relationship with its collision avoidance. It would needlessly trigger at a curve in Gympie Rd at Aspley (perhaps the steel traffic lights spoofed it). But it saved my bacon bigtime on the Gateway at Nudgee. The left had lanes were slowing down due to merging traffic. I was spending too much time watching my rearview mirror. Then an impatient driver pulled out of the left hand lane, into my lane. I just didn’t see it at all. Fortunately, the Outlander PHEV collision avoidance screamed at me and then slammed on the brakes. Giving me just enough time to swerve into the shoulder. Saved by the electronics again.

But I do get it that some of the electronic drivers aids are rubbish. The Toyota Corolla that I occasionally rented would spend its time gently oscillating from the left to the right of its lane on a well marked freeway. Same car would also occasionally verbally admonish with a voice in the cabin to obey the road rules, with the display saying that the speed limit as 70 kph when it was clearly sign posted at 90 kph. The Hyundai crapbox something rental would just randomly tug hard at the wheel.

But the electronics that really gets up my nose is the stop/start systems.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by whynot

Same car would also occasionally verbally admonish with a voice in the cabin to obey the road rules, with the display saying that the speed limit as 70 kph when it was clearly sign posted at 90 kph.

If I'm having a voice admonishing me, I want it to be Palki, she's so stern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj_Pr38vj8k