Ford Fiesta Sales

[Imolator]

Why doesn't the Fiesta sell better than it does?

October sales figures show only 379 sales in October, and just 313 in September. Compare that to Yaris sales of 2858 in October and 2043 for September. August was a good month for Fiesta with 726 sales, looks like it only sells well when ford cuts the prices.

Even the piece of crap Korean made Holden Barina with a horrible crash test rating of only 2 out of 5 sold 1074 in October.

Most small car buyers must be idiots based on the sales figures.

[Teki04]

Just to name a few things;

*Price* - high advertised starting price (sure, it includes a/c...)
*Advertising* - when was the last time you saw the Fiesta on the TV?
*Entry point* - I mentioned this once and got blasted, but what about a 1.4L? (EDIT - come to think about it, I was blasted about it. But for one second just think. The Yaris has a 1.3L, as does the Jazz. Seems Ford are aiming for the 'premium' small hatch price)
*Waiting lists* - are people prepared to wait? My Cousin was told about 4-6 weeks for a Fiesta Zetec
*It's a Ford* :

[Imolator]

Yes a lot of what you say is just what I've been thinking. Maybe ford are just happy to have it trickle along sales wise. I agree a smaller motor as a price point starter might be a good thing sales wise, I dont know if they could do it but the 1.4l turbo diesel is very popular in Europe and achieves very good fuel economy.

But as you say maybe they are just after the premium end of the market, but if that is their goal I think they have failed as the Ghia just doesn't sell well at all.

And yes waiting lists are a sales killer, I had to wait nearly 8 weeks for mine and it was only a 5 door Lx. God nows how long you would wait if you optioned an LX with abs in manual gise as it has to be built to spec in Germany. I tried to Order mine that way only to be told that they couldn't give me an eta and that it would be months rather than weeks. :

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Just to name a few things;

*Price* - high advertised starting price (sure, it includes a/c...)
*Advertising* - when was the last time you saw the Fiesta on the TV?
*Entry point* - I mentioned this once and got blasted, but what about a 1.4L? (EDIT - come to think about it, I was blasted about it. But for one second just think. The Yaris has a 1.3L, as does the Jazz. Seems Ford are aiming for the 'premium' small hatch price)
*Waiting lists* - are people prepared to wait? My Cousin was told about 4-6 weeks for a Fiesta Zetec
*It's a Ford* :

Lets just compare it to the Fiesta's competitors, its real competitors...

Price -
Ford Fiesta LX 3-dr Manual = $15,990
Volkswagen Polo Club 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Renault Clio Campus 5-dr Manual = $18,990
Peugeot 206 XR 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Citroen C3 SX 5-dr Manual = $17,990

So the Fiesta is the cheapest, with a 74kW 1.6L engine. The others are all 1.4s. 59kW in the VW, 72kW in the Clio, 55kW in the 206 and C3. The Renault's 1.4 is decently powerful, the VW's justifies its lack of power with sub 5L/100km fuel economy... the Citroen/Peugeot... well.

Advertising -
Can't remember the last time I've seen an add for any of the others either.

Entry Point -
Fiesta is cheapest in its class. With the more powerful, biggest engine. And ABS and such which some (Polo Club for example) don't feature. And yes it is a 'premium,' small hatch. Its not a piece of garbage moving fridge like the Yaris, Echo, Barina etc. Ford has the Mazda 2 to compete with those things.

Waiting Lists -
You have to wait for the others too.

As for its just a Ford. So what? Does that make it bad? Your RSC182 is just a Renault. May not mean as much here, but go say that to someone in Europe and they'll nod in agreement. Its nothing special. Its no Ferrari. But that doesn't make it bad, does it?

[photn]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Lets just compare it to the Fiesta's competitors, its real competitors...

Price -
Ford Fiesta LX 3-dr Manual = $15,990
Volkswagen Polo Club 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Renault Clio Campus 5-dr Manual = $18,990
Peugeot 206 XR 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Citroen C3 SX 5-dr Manual = $17,990

So the Fiesta is the cheapest, with a 74kW 1.6L engine. The others are all 1.4s. 59kW in the VW, 72kW in the Clio, 55kW in the 206 and C3. The Renault's 1.4 is decently powerful, the VW's justifies its lack of power with sub 5L/100km fuel economy... the Citroen/Peugeot... well.

Advertising -
Can't remember the last time I've seen an add for any of the others either.

Entry Point -
Fiesta is cheapest in its class. With the more powerful, biggest engine. And ABS and such which some (Polo Club for example) don't feature. And yes it is a 'premium,' small hatch. Its not a piece of garbage moving fridge like the Yaris, Echo, Barina etc. Ford has the Mazda 2 to compete with those things.

Waiting Lists -
You have to wait for the others too.

As for its just a Ford. So what? Does that make it bad? Your RSC182 is just a Renault. May not mean as much here, but go say that to someone in Europe and they'll nod in agreement. Its nothing special. Its no Ferrari. But that doesn't make it bad, does it?

good comparo.....sum intersting facts there.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Interesing article, pity it didn't give an numbers breakdown of private vs fleet for more models. I dont trust the figures on the Yaris as I think they are quoting total sales not private sales alone. As the yaris gets 2300 give or take a bit of sles per month. If those figures are correct then Yaris private sales must be running 90% or so.

From above

Originally Posted by Teki04

This year the Yaris/Echo stats are;

15,695 total sales (July YTD)
11,495 private sales (July YTD)

Which means that private buyers account for 73.2% of Yaris/Echo sales.

Originally Posted by Steffo

Lets just compare it to the Fiesta's competitors, its real competitors...

Price -
Ford Fiesta LX 3-dr Manual = $15,990
Volkswagen Polo Club 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Renault Clio Campus 5-dr Manual = $18,990
Peugeot 206 XR 3-dr Manual = $16,990
Citroen C3 SX 5-dr Manual = $17,990

So the Fiesta is the cheapest, with a 74kW 1.6L engine. The others are all 1.4s. 59kW in the VW, 72kW in the Clio, 55kW in the 206 and C3. The Renault's 1.4 is decently powerful, the VW's justifies its lack of power with sub 5L/100km fuel economy... the Citroen/Peugeot... well.

Advertising -
Can't remember the last time I've seen an add for any of the others either.

Entry Point -
Fiesta is cheapest in its class. With the more powerful, biggest engine. And ABS and such which some (Polo Club for example) don't feature. And yes it is a 'premium,' small hatch. Its not a piece of garbage moving fridge like the Yaris, Echo, Barina etc. Ford has the Mazda 2 to compete with those things.

Waiting Lists -
You have to wait for the others too.

As for its just a Ford. So what? Does that make it bad? Your RSC182 is just a Renault. May not mean as much here, but go say that to someone in Europe and they'll nod in agreement. Its nothing special. Its no Ferrari. But that doesn't make it bad, does it?

Flippin hell. I was joking about it being a Ford - but yes, Sarcasm doesn't come out on the net well. It was a joke. Obviously the Ford is the class leader. But, how many times I've told people I want a Fiesta ST only to be told "It's a Ford. Why would you want that?". I'm educated - I know they're good. No need to convince me!

HAHA - you compared the Fiesta to the oldest cars on the market. Good one! Sure, they have been updated, but they aren't the newest crop on the market like the Fiesta is (well, LOCALLY)

And, why is the Mazda2 crap and the Fiesta isn't? So, your telling me the Fiesta isn't a small econobox? It doesn't compete with the Barina, Yaris, Mazda2 and others? Considering the price and market they are after, I'm sure it does.

Oh, and the Clio Campus is now $16,990 Oh, and to compare based on engine size is a little disappointing. Girls (Females) are the target market - they want features and safety.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Teki04

From above





Flippin hell. I was joking about it being a Ford - but yes, Sarcasm doesn't come out on the net well. It was a joke. Obviously the Ford is the class leader. But, how many times I've told people I want a Fiesta ST only to be told "It's a Ford. Why would you want that?". I'm educated - I know they're good. No need to convince me!

HAHA - you compared the Fiesta to the oldest cars on the market. Good one! Sure, they have been updated, but they aren't the newest crop on the market like the Fiesta is (well, LOCALLY)

And, why is the Mazda2 crap and the Fiesta isn't? So, your telling me the Fiesta isn't a small econobox? It doesn't compete with the Barina, Yaris, Mazda2 and others? Considering the price and market they are after, I'm sure it does.

Oh, and the Clio Campus is now $16,990 Oh, and to compare based on engine size is a little disappointing. Girls (Females) are the target market - they want features and safety.

I agree and knew you were joking, even wheels when they first did their group test of the fiesta vs its peers stated that is was best in class, but only if you had no predujices to the blue oval badge. Hence they new that there might be some badge predudice.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Flippin hell. I was joking about it being a Ford - but yes, Sarcasm doesn't come out on the net well. It was a joke. Obviously the Ford is the class leader. But, how many times I've told people I want a Fiesta ST only to be told "It's a Ford. Why would you want that?". I'm educated - I know they're good. No need to convince me!

HAHA - you compared the Fiesta to the oldest cars on the market. Good one! Sure, they have been updated, but they aren't the newest crop on the market like the Fiesta is (well, LOCALLY)

And, why is the Mazda2 crap and the Fiesta isn't? So, your telling me the Fiesta isn't a small econobox? It doesn't compete with the Barina, Yaris, Mazda2 and others? Considering the price and market they are after, I'm sure it does.

Oh, and the Clio Campus is now $16,990 Oh, and to compare based on engine size is a little disappointing. Girls (Females) are the target market - they want features and safety.

The oldest cars on the market? Ok. They're all as old as the Mk6 Fiesta. The Polo is actually newer, since its update brought around mechanical changes etc that the other's haven't had. But it makes no difference. You could compare the older generation Polo ('95 - '99 then facelifted '00 - '02) and it would still be a better car then the rest of them. But that's comparing a manufacturer that leads the world in quality to one that leads the world in cheap pricing (Ford), and a few obscure makes from France.

The Mazda 2 is dynamically inferior to the Fiesta, much to do with the small-van like body. It has an inferior engine and transmission. Plus, it has the image to go with it to target the cheap econobox market which the Fiesta doesn't. The Mazda 2 is seen as a newer 121. The Fiesta is... well, a new car (here).

As for 72% of Yaris sales being private buyers. That's very funny. You can go on believeing it if you please. Just remember, it doesn't have to be purchased by a company fleet manager to be a company car. You know my mate Clio1.6 off your forum who you met at the KK run, along with myself? His dad has had company cars from IBM for some time, which as far as anyone knows, are his. He goes to the car yard, he orders what it is, it goes down as being done by him all on his name.... payed for by IBM. Surveyers would count that as a private sale though, as it was done in the name of a private individual.

And don't backpedal saying your comment about it being just a Ford was a joke. If it really was you'd have made it look like one, and it sure as hell did not.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The oldest cars on the market? Ok. They're all as old as the Mk6 Fiesta. The Polo is actually newer, since its update brought around mechanical changes etc that the other's haven't had. But it makes no difference. You could compare the older generation Polo ('95 - '99 then facelifted '00 - '02) and it would still be a better car then the rest of them. But that's comparing a manufacturer that leads the world in quality to one that leads the world in cheap pricing (Ford), and a few obscure makes from France.

The Mazda 2 is dynamically inferior to the Fiesta, much to do with the small-van like body. It has an inferior engine and transmission. Plus, it has the image to go with it to target the cheap econobox market which the Fiesta doesn't. The Mazda 2 is seen as a newer 121. The Fiesta is... well, a new car (here).

As for 72% of Yaris sales being private buyers. That's very funny. You can go on believeing it if you please. Just remember, it doesn't have to be purchased by a company fleet manager to be a company car. You know my mate Clio1.6 off your forum who you met at the KK run, along with myself? His dad has had company cars from IBM for some time, which as far as anyone knows, are his. He goes to the car yard, he orders what it is, it goes down as being done by him all on his name.... payed for by IBM. Surveyers would count that as a private sale though, as it was done in the name of a private individual.

And don't backpedal saying your comment about it being just a Ford was a joke. If it really was you'd have made it look like one, and it sure as hell did not.

Check my previous post, and look up the vfacts figures for yourself and then do the math against the article which rated the yaris as one of the best private sellers. Unless of course you would rather remain opinionated and uniformed.

[Sonia]

Lets just get to the point.... most of the small car market is taken up by females.
Most females are clueless.... they look for things like, "is it cute", "how many cup holders does it have", "does it come in pink", etc.
The Yaris and Jazz accomodate for alot of this criteria.
Also, you must remember a lot of people think the Fiesta is just the new Festiva. We all know what a "great" car that was....

[MoreHPformyXR6]

Originally Posted by Mrsfantz

Lets just get to the point.... most of the small car market is taken up by females.
Most females are clueless.... they look for things like, "is it cute", "how many cup holders does it have", "does it come in pink", etc.
The Yaris and Jazz accomodate for alot of this criteria.
Also, you must remember a lot of people think the Fiesta is just the new Festiva. We all know what a "great" car that was....

That's true but some also look at the size of the boot. Has anyone had a look at the size of the boot on the Yaris Hatch? They are tiny so shallow & small a couple bags of shopping they would be full. Space every which way in the Jazz in comparision. Im sure Toyota has lost a few private sales on the Yaris hatch due to tiny tiny boot. My Mum just bought a new car on Sat (Tango LX Fiesta 5 Door auto) Not saying the boot is huge by any means in the Fiesta but it is massive compared to Yaris hatch lol. We both test drive the Jazz & Fiesta. Didnt end up driving the Yaris even though that was Mum's preferred choice b4 opening the boot. Cause the boot was so tiny she didnt bother. But as for cute factor (if any car can be cute that is). Id rate the Yaris number one. Then the Jazz/Fiesta/Swift as equal 2. The Mazda2/Colt as equal 3. :

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Why doesn't the Fiesta sell better than it does?

October sales figures show only 379 sales in October, and just 313 in September. Compare that to Yaris sales of 2858 in October and 2043 for September. August was a good month for Fiesta with 726 sales, looks like it only sells well when ford cuts the prices.

Even the piece of crap Korean made Holden Barina with a horrible crash test rating of only 2 out of 5 sold 1074 in October.

Most small car buyers must be idiots based on the sales figures.

Its pretty simple in regards to the Yaris. 80 - 85% of it is fleet.

So lets see... 2858 - 80% = 572. Same goes for Corolla, Camry, Falcon, Commodore.

Toyota actually isn't such a big selling car manufacturer in terms of private buyers. Its vast majority of sales belong to fleets. Eliminate them and the amount of normal people who actually buy them with their own money is quite low.

Ford has alot of this too, but not with cars like Fiesta & Focus.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its pretty simple in regards to the Yaris. 80 - 85% of it is fleet.

So lets see... 2858 - 80% = 572. Same goes for Corolla, Camry, Falcon, Commodore.

Toyota actually isn't such a big selling car manufacturer in terms of private buyers. Its vast majority of sales belong to fleets. Eliminate them and the amount of normal people who actually buy them with their own money is quite low.

Ford has alot of this too, but not with cars like Fiesta & Focus.

I know that toyota has lots of fleets sales of Corolla and Camry, but wasn't aware of the Yaris being a big fleet seller. Are you sure about this?

[photn]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I know that toyota has lots of fleets sales of Corolla and Camry, but wasn't aware of the Yaris being a big fleet seller. Are you sure about this?

yahuh i see ALOT of yaris's in the city as a fleet vehicle....even my company has about 120 all over NSW that i know of.. there are alot of them out.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I know that toyota has lots of fleets sales of Corolla and Camry, but wasn't aware of the Yaris being a big fleet seller. Are you sure about this?

Yep. Ever seen those Blood-Bank cars, the Echo's, and now Yaris? Then you have alot of those cosmetic companies with female mobile sales reps, driving, surprise, a Yaris. Toyota lives off fleet sales, period.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yep. Ever seen those Blood-Bank cars, the Echo's, and now Yaris? Then you have alot of those cosmetic companies with female mobile sales reps, driving, surprise, a Yaris. Toyota lives off fleet sales, period.

Please refer to my above post.

To add to my above post too.

The Toyota Corolla, which is overall the country's second biggest seller, sells mainly (60 per cent) to private buyers.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Yep. Ever seen those Blood-Bank cars, the Echo's, and now Yaris? Then you have alot of those cosmetic companies with female mobile sales reps, driving, surprise, a Yaris. Toyota lives off fleet sales, period.

Ok, you learn something new every day. Cant say I see any here in Wollongong, but obviously it would be very interesting to see the actual breakdown of sales fleet versus private.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Imolator

Ok, you learn something new every day. Cant say I see any here in Wollongong, but obviously it would be very interesting to see the actual breakdown of sales fleet versus private.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=19729

That should answer your question!

Interesting to see the Focus is Ford's number 1 retail performer.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its pretty simple in regards to the Yaris. 80 - 85% of it is fleet.

So lets see... 2858 - 80% = 572. Same goes for Corolla, Camry, Falcon, Commodore.

Toyota actually isn't such a big selling car manufacturer in terms of private buyers. Its vast majority of sales belong to fleets. Eliminate them and the amount of normal people who actually buy them with their own money is quite low.

Ford has alot of this too, but not with cars like Fiesta & Focus.

I hate it when people pull stats out of their ***.

[Teki04]

Steffo - where are those stats coming from? Majority of Yaris I see are private owners. Ever been to Market City? Damn - they are everywhere!

*EDIT*

Seems you and Photn are incorrect.

This year the Yaris/Echo stats are;

15,695 total sales (July YTD)
11,495 private sales (July YTD)

Which means that private buyers account for 73.2% of Yaris/Echo sales.

[photn]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Steffo - where are those stats coming from? Majority of Yaris I see are private owners. Ever been to Market City? Damn - they are everywhere!

*EDIT*

Seems you and Photn are incorrect.

This year the Yaris/Echo stats are;

15,695 total sales (July YTD)
11,495 private sales (July YTD)

Which means that private buyers account for 73.2% of Yaris/Echo sales.

Bahaha your FUnny. lol you Edit an Earlier Post saying that me and Steffo are incorect B4 i even POST just so that you can basically say that you said it First.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by photn

Bahaha your FUnny. lol you Edit an Earlier Post saying that me and Steffo are incorect B4 i even POST just so that you can basically say that you said it First.

Yea, so I wouldn't waste another post... Um, if I wanted to do that I wouldn't advertise the fact I edited it with '*EDIT*', would I?

Originally Posted by photn

Ware where the "VFACTS" taken from. straight FROM Toyota's sales figures or generated from an outside body

btw i CBF login in so deal with it.

NO. Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries. VFACTS means the consolidated national statistics for categorised sales of new motor vehicles, produced and published on a monthly basis by FCAI.

[photn]

umm companise that use yaris as fleet...
RTA
CHUB
SNP
douglas Pathology
Blood bank
Domino'z
PIZZA Hut
Kone
Thrifty
MULTIPLE car leasing companies
Multiple car rental companies

just to name a few off the top of my head

[Steffo]

Oh, and go to an ex-Government auction every now and then. They're DOMINATED by Toyotas. Yaris, Corolla, Camry all fill the auction yards.

[Ives]

IMO not many people buying small cars care about excellent dynamics, chassis, handling, feel. Therefore Fiesta isnt selling as well as the others.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by HyperKid

IMO not many people buying small cars care about excellent dynamics, chassis, handling, feel. Therefore Fiesta isnt selling as well as the others.

You're not wrong. Most joe-average car buyers, in any class buy based on how it looks, how cheap it is and how cheap they think its going to be to maintain. This is the sole reason companies like Hyundai, Kia, Proton etc can even make a sale.

[photn]

Originally Posted by HyperKid

IMO not many people buying small cars care about excellent dynamics, chassis, handling, feel. Therefore Fiesta isnt selling as well as the others.

true alot of people care about fuel effiency and a-b type cars. basically daily Drivers! someting they can use to get from place to place.

[photn]

i agree with Steffo ........those kinda cars are classed LEASE!

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I have enough experience to know better. If all you can rely on is articles, especially from a murky source like Drive, then that's sad. It doesn't have to be registered anywhere as a fleet sale to be one. Private buyers make a small amount of the top 10 best selling models in Australia's sales figures. Company cars/fleet cars make up the vast majority. And as is the case with alot of company cars, they can be misinterpereted as a private sale.

And there's another whole scenario I'm not mentioning, the tax-claim lease. Many people lease new cars over and over as a tax claim. That's a really murky area of car sales right there, because its hard to determine what it should be considered, truley private or fleet. Personally I vote the latter, as its not an individual putting their own hard earned to a product they need to depend on. Its a means to an end, which disqualifies it from being a private sale.

Read his post. VFACTS is not collected by Drive.

Originally Posted by photn

i agree with Steffo ........those kinda cars are classed LEASE!

You serious?

I'd call them private cars. I mean, I drive my car home, don't I? So does the girl at work with her Integra Type S. Oh, and my boss and his E class. Oh, and the other boss and his RX-8. They use them for work too, but the car is a family car.

So, IMO these aren't company cars. Neither are they owned by the business (well, not really)

Originally Posted by Lagom

In general, the commment about most top selling cars being fleet sellers is true. If you look at the large segment, it's roughly 70+%. If you look at the 380, it's closer to 96%!

The smaller the car, the smaller the fleet volume, in general. As fleet players, the Corolla is king of the small segment fleet market - noone really can match Toyota on price and cost of ownership (what matters to a fleet manager).

Corollas do a good handful of fleet sales, but when your're selling 3700+ per month, it's not hard to see how they can also be Australia's number one selling private car. Frankly, they do awesome fleet volumes, but their private volumes are certainly damn high too. I have seen VFACTS results broken down by sale type; yes a lot of Corollas go to fleets, but there are a lot of mums and young drivers buying Corollas too.

What source do you have to back up your claims?



In terms of behaviour, I'd argue many leases are closer to private buyers than fleet buyers in terms of buying behaviour - 'user choosers'. Even if they're not paying, doesn't matter - they have free choice. Further to that, in the case of novated leases, people are basically paying with their own money. This is one of the factors behind the fall in the large car segment; as people have had greater choice, people who once might have had a Falcon XT as a company car, suddenly decide to get an Accord Euro, etc. instead. Don't need the size of a Falcon, an Accord Euro has enough go, uses less fuel, has some prestige and a few more toys.

Isn't that the argument behind retail sales, people buying what they want. In the case of a novated lease, people leasing what they want.

If the choice is limited, then I'd argue they are more like fleet buyers by nature.

Should have read your post earlier. BINGO! :

[photn]

Originally Posted by Teki04

You serious?

Yes actually. Why!? you ask?.

Well My car is under a Novated Lease. Now i Pay the Fleet Company Out of my PRE-TAX dollars for the car, everything, Absolutely EVERYTHING.

I chose the car. i went did research talked to dealers. when i found the one i wanted i said to leasing company. Yo i want this with this and this from this dealer who gave me this price. Now they go out and buy it. and its under my name BUT!!! the name also incorporates the Fleet service so its

Sean Coleman & Macmillian Shakespear Fleet Services.

So when i go in to get the Car serviced or anything done on it such as a tyre rotation and balance + allignment i go its a fleet car. then they ring up and get the OK b4 they do anything on the car.

So my car IS a fleet car.

to me there are 2 types of Fleet cars. Company Fleet cars and Novated Fleet cars. the later is just giving you the choice of what you want, baically personalisation.