Buyer Beware!!!

DougM · 28-09-2010, 07:57 AM

Hi everyone.....

Just wanted to let you know about a private sale that's gone terribly wrong.......

One of the project managers at work recently bought a near new Toyota Hilux SR5, privately. The car is financed through a broker. The finance company did a REVS check and the car was clear. My mate also did his own REVS check for his own peace of mind.

It turns out that the car has had a body swap!!!!!! The chassis is from a base model Hilux which was bought legitimately. The thieves stole a top of the range SR5 in the Northern Territory and swapped the complete body from the SR5 onto the base model chassis....This way the chassis and engine number cleared with REVS.......Apparently the SR5's are now huge business with thieves.......

Here is the clincher.....The police came and impounded the car, no ifs or buts..........It looks like my mate is stuck paying off a car he no longer owns even though he has done nothing wrong!!!!!!!! What really gets under my skin is that even though the title of the car is with the finance company. he loses out.......No one should lose out because of these ruthless thieves but it just drives me mad that the big companies are covered but the average guy gets bent over.........It's just wrong.....He has 2 young kids and is now stuck with this huge debt and no car......

My mate has spoken to a few solicitors, the usual TV/Radio programmes and they all say that there is probably little he can do about it.....

So all I can say is, be very, very careful if buying privately!!!!

Take care.

Doug.

Kryton · 28-09-2010, 08:17 AM

If the REVS check was infact done, paid for and printed out, its not your mates problem - thats the whole point of the check.

I also find it very hard to believe that the check was done properly - paid for the full check and not just the free online one.
If it had have been done properly, the body number would have been checked, the history of the entire car would have also been checked as well.

The story sounds fishy and doesnt add up.

Either your mate didnt actually do any checks and has just done his money, or the checks were done properly and he has nothing to worry about.
What your saying about him losing out if the check was indeed done properly is a load of crap.

DougM · 28-09-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

If the REVS check was infact done, paid for and printed out, its not your mates problem - thats the whole point of the check.

I also find it very hard to believe that the check was done properly - paid for the full check and not just the free online one.
If it had have been done properly, the body number would have been checked, the history of the entire car would have also been checked as well.

The story sounds fishy and doesnt add up.

Either your mate didnt actually do any checks and has just done his money, or the checks were done properly and he has nothing to worry about.
What your saying about him losing out if the check was indeed done properly is a load of crap.

The finance company did their own REVS check......That's what I've been told. And yes, he has the proper REVS print out.....Apparently there is some disclaimer fine print somewhere.......

4Vman · 28-09-2010, 08:58 AM

First question, if the VIN's (engine/chassis) are from the base vehicle and not from the SR5 and it was cleared how did the police know its a body swap?

DougM · 28-09-2010, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

First question, if the VIN's (engine/chassis) are from the base vehicle and not from the SR5 and it was cleared how did the police know its a body swap?

That's the first question I asked my mate............

The cops were not saying much at all.......I suspected that maybe someone has been busted already and possibly the remains of one or both vehicles have been found??????

4Vman · 28-09-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougM

That's the first question I asked my mate............

The cops were not saying much at all.......I suspected that maybe someone has been busted already and possibly the remains of one or both vehicles have been found??????

That would be my guess, they tracked the transfer of sale due to a previous bust/investigation on the seller and seized the vehicle pending an "identity" inspection....

The issue wont be with the numbers because they're "clear", the issue will be with the seller and associated transactions with them.

This isn't a failing of the REVS check, its simply a fraudulent transaction.

*** EDIT***

The other thing that should stand out like dogs bits is the VIN wont match that for a SR5......

The description on the transfer wont match the vehicle records.

Smoke Pursuit · 28-09-2010, 09:10 AM

Yeh this doesnt add up.

When doing REV checks please make sure you put in the VIN, ENGINE & REGISTRATION number!!

Dealers maybe a few grand more expensive but atleast you dont have to go thru this bs!

LukeGT · 28-09-2010, 09:11 AM

The new body might have data dots on all the panels

XR Martin · 28-09-2010, 09:25 AM

No one noticed the chassis and body number was different?

XWGT · 28-09-2010, 09:38 AM

Next question

Who effectively is attempting to take possesion of the car?
Prior insurance company?
Police wouldnt care less expect for a conviction of the original theives

XR Martin · 28-09-2010, 09:49 AM

Also realise a REVS check doesnt cover you if its stolen, it only covers you if theres finance on it.

I can already picture the sale...
It was a bargain of the century; person selling car wasnt the owner, it was his mother's/father's/sister's who doesnt speak English; person was of MED.

Smoke Pursuit · 28-09-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Also realise a REVS check doesnt cover you if its stolen, it only covers you if theres finance on it.

I can already picture the sale...
It was a bargain of the century; person selling car wasnt the owner, it was his mother's/father's/sister's who doesnt speak English; person was of MED.

It also tells you if the vehicle is stolen...

4Vman · 28-09-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

It also tells you if the vehicle is stolen...

LOL.. yes, its pretty hard to transfer ownership or register a VIN you don't actually own, or has been reported stolen...

Even without a REVS check alarm bells would go off everywhere the min the paperwork was lodged.

XR Martin · 28-09-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

It also tells you if the vehicle is stolen...

But it cant guarantee whether its not stolen or not. Simply because it could have been stolen 10 minutes ago and hasnt been reported.

RedHotGT · 28-09-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

But it cant guarantee whether its not stolen or not. Simply because it could have been stolen 10 minutes ago and hasnt been reported.

Chances are if the car was stolen 10 minutes ago - you haven't had time to list it on carsales/ebay, take enquiries, and sell the car...

Though - you might be speedy gonzales... I'm not sure...

XR Martin · 28-09-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

Chances are if the car was stolen 10 minutes ago - you haven't had time to list it on carsales/ebay, take enquiries, and sell the car...

Though - you might be speedy gonzales... I'm not sure...

What if you were on holiday overseas for weeks, a car could easily be stolen and sold off in that time....
And then theres the delay between telling the police its stolen, and how long before REVs is notified.

Which is why REVs, or the Police cannot guarantee whether a vehicle at any particular moment has been stolen or not.

REVs can only determine with certainty whether there is a financial interest on a car at a particular time.

From REVS

Quote:

A REGISTER OF FINANCIAL INTERESTS - NOT A TITLE REGISTER

The Register set up by the Act is a register of financial interest. It is not a register of title as is the Torren Title Register. Accordingly, the information held on the Register in relation to stolen vehicles is not guaranteed by the Government and has no legal effect. There are also other matters that may affect the title of goods such as, bankruptcy, company sequestration and Family Court orders.

The financial interests covered by the Act embrace all manner of securities, including bill of sale, chattel mortgage, hire-purchase, hiring, lease, licence, bailment and all forms of title-retention devices (eg. "Romalpa clauses"

Zedjay · 28-09-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

It also tells you if the vehicle is stolen...

hang on.... wouldn't that mean only the body is stolen and the chassis and engine belong to the dude who bought it??

the insurance company for the SR5 only owns the body, so what happens

302 XC · 28-09-2010, 10:07 AM

Bit suss,
All corresponding numbers were cleared, but now an issue ???

IF there was money owing on it ,wouldnt that have to be paid up before changing ownership
OR
I hope not,your mate just paid the seller direct and the car was repoed for the financier

divine_afg · 28-09-2010, 10:25 AM

How did your mate pay for the car? cash/cheque/bank transfer.
Did he get letter from Seller for the sale of the car.

RedHotGT · 28-09-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougM

Hi everyone.....

Just wanted to let you know about a private sale that's gone terribly wrong.......

One of the project managers at work recently bought a near new Toyota Hilux SR5, privately. The car is financed through a broker. The finance company did a REVS check and the car was clear. My mate also did his own REVS check for his own peace of mind.

It turns out that the car has had a body swap!!!!!! The chassis is from a base model Hilux which was bought legitimately. The thieves stole a top of the range SR5 in the Northern Territory and swapped the complete body from the SR5 onto the base model chassis....This way the chassis and engine number cleared with REVS.......Apparently the SR5's are now huge business with thieves.......

Here is the clincher.....The police came and impounded the car, no ifs or buts..........It looks like my mate is stuck paying off a car he no longer owns even though he has done nothing wrong!!!!!!!! What really gets under my skin is that even though the title of the car is with the finance company. he loses out.......No one should lose out because of these ruthless thieves but it just drives me mad that the big companies are covered but the average guy gets bent over.........It's just wrong.....He has 2 young kids and is now stuck with this huge debt and no car......

My mate has spoken to a few solicitors, the usual TV/Radio programmes and they all say that there is probably little he can do about it.....

So all I can say is, be very, very careful if buying privately!!!!

Take care.

Doug.

I take it that nobody 'inspected' the vehicle?? There are a number reputable companies that do vehicle inspections (I can certainly think of one that is constantly advertised in Just Cars Magazine) and they would cost less than the dramas that your friend is going through now.

REVS will tell you if the vehicle has an encumberance (financial interests)
REVS will tell you if the vehicle has been reported stolen (though some do slip through the cracks)
REVS will sometimes tell you if the vehicle has been a 'repairable write-off' (though some also slip thru the cracks here)

Sounds like the old 'switcheroo' rebody to me... But again, an inspection would have raised questions and most likely stopped this issue from happening...

302 XC · 28-09-2010, 03:32 PM

Ok so your on holidays and your car is stolen then sold on

The financier will investigate for the transaction,would they not

I had something happen along a dodgy line few years ago when buying a truck
The seller wanted me to pay him the total amount
I said 2 cheques champ,
1 for your financier with all corresponding documents for clear title
and the 2nd cheque to you for any different between the payout and the sale price
Lets say he went absolutely mental
"none of your business what i owe" blah blah blah
Thought it was a simple request
Needless to say i bought elsewhere

302 XC · 28-09-2010, 03:54 PM

Wow and now we all no why threads get closed

Bit like people posting their custom plates,
then others see them dob em in for illegal activities

I think if we all sit down and scratch ideas how simple things mite/mite not be
I wouldnt be posting it up to help drigger peoples imagination

BENT_8 · 28-09-2010, 04:06 PM

Unfortunately Norm, there are many 'need to have now' people living amongst us who will lay down a few cold hard on a whim just so the next guy doesnt take advantage of the 'bargain'.

The advantages of digital media and internet hey...

global88 · 29-09-2010, 08:30 AM

There is a nice thread on car scammers in another forum i hang out at, there is a guy thats been found to take heaps of people for a ride, nearer to the last pages people are posting that they have been sucked in by the same scammer.

He offers a car cheap in another state and offers to transport it up for you after you have paid a deposit, the price is too good to refuse.....

http://www.austech.info/general-chat...ego-owner.html

BOSHOG · 29-09-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by global88

There is a nice thread on car scammers in another forum i hang out at, there is a guy thats been found to take heaps of people for a ride, nearer to the last pages people are posting that they have been sucked in by the same scammer.

He offers a car cheap in another state and offers to transport it up for you after you have paid a deposit, the price is too good to refuse.....

http://www.austech.info/general-chat...ego-owner.html

i cant believe how stupid some people are, why on earth would you pay $5500 through western union just to view then test drive a car?

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by global88

There is a nice thread on car scammers in another forum i hang out at, there is a guy thats been found to take heaps of people for a ride, nearer to the last pages people are posting that they have been sucked in by the same scammer.

He offers a car cheap in another state and offers to transport it up for you after you have paid a deposit, the price is too good to refuse.....

http://www.austech.info/general-chat...ego-owner.html

Was reading that thread in the link and the first thing which made me truely laugh is the email from the scammer...

Quote:

ok had the detectives hat on all morning
the car is a scam

here is the email sent back to me this morning

G'Day!
Sorry for taking so long to reply, I'm a soldier serving in the Australian Air Force and I was transferred to a new military base in WA. I am providing Pre-Afghanistan Deployment Training (Desert Training).

If you are still interested in buying the car, I'm asking $5000. The car is road worthy. Rego until Oct 2010. It has a clear title, very well maintained, always garage kept, excellent condition, runs and sounds 100% perfect with no leaks or noises. I have to sell the car as fast as I can because in three weeks I will be deployed to Afghanistan and I'll stay there for a while. I intend to buy a new one when I get back home.

No need to worry about the car because it is here with me at the military base and I can ship it anywhere in Australia.
I also need to know if you have the cash to buy the car, if not when are you able to get it? You don't have to worry about the distance. You'll love the car, I can guarantee you that!

Firstly... the RAAF does NOT have SOLDIERS.... only the ARMY has soldiers.
The army do the fighting.
The RAAF drop bombs.
And the claim about being able to send the car anywhere in Australia is truely laughable... suggesting that he can put a civvie car on a Herc is he??
The fact that he doesnt use the name of the base where is supposely at...

If your going to be a scammer... learn the terms/ jargon of the person you intend to impercinate.

Then again then are lots of guilible people out there...

BOSHOG · 29-09-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Then again then are lots of guilible people out there...

couldnt agree more

302 XC · 29-09-2010, 11:48 AM

Seems like adjustments of similar scams
Theres a coupla cars here in QLD ATM on evilbay
With strict no viewing prior,money into account first before pik up

But seriously with all the scams running around are people that blinded

The viewing thing maybe (maybe sick of getting the run around ???)
Paying up front, well if i won the auction as such and i had to pik the car up in person
Wheres "cash"on pik up the issue

Ive got the "text" run around by some idiot
Send me like 20 texts in a day asking this n that
In the end i just told him,
If your for real,maybe ring me
Guess he didnt ring,must have been bored down at socialcircus

New age life style just makes people lazy

Donny · 29-09-2010, 12:33 PM

I will add another possible scam attempt on one of my cars..

On Monday (27/09/2010) I was contacted by an Aussie person interested in buying my GT-P.. He left his name and number on my voice mail and I called him back after work. (If he is dodgy then the name is likely fake, and the number listed under the same or another fake ID)
Call started off innocently enough, breifly discussed the cars condition and price etc, he tried some bartering by trying to use redbook figures and then said he was looking to lease the car and that his leasing agent would contact me directly that day..

He said he was from Townsville and had a few XB GT's (a white one and a black one both with golde sunroofs), but when I threw a few names around of well known northern GT people and cars he didnt seem to know of them..
He wanted my name and address, which I didnt give him.. As my antennai were starting to twitch that things werent kosher..
He also said his lease agent would do all the inspecting of the car, and the agent would arrange a flat tray to take the car up to him, with the buyer not coming to see the car at all.. I also told him straight up that the car will not leave my place until I have confirmed 100% that the money is totally cleared and in my bank and accessable to me..

Guess what, Iv not heard back from anyone since.. This fella was very smooth and well spoken.. Well drilled and knew what he was doing.

I have a few rules in place for any sales of my cars.. No one gets my address until we do the actual deal, 1st car viewing is in a public place, negotiations can take place on the phone or at the 1st viewing. Before things go to the next level, I expect to see some bonafides aka ID etc.. The car will not leave my posession until funds are cleared into one of my accounts, and then transferred by me to another account within that same bank on a totally non connected account number.. That way I can be certain theres no holds or anything on that money..

It may all be legit, I dont know, but Im suspisious of everyone until I see the money.. Plus I dont know if you can lease a second hand car and dont know if leasing agents will do all the legwork for obtaining a car like this..

Thoughts??

BENT_8 · 29-09-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

I have a few rules in place for any sales of my cars.. No one gets my address until we do the actual deal, 1st car viewing is in a public place, negotiations can take place on the phone or at the 1st viewing.

Thoughts??

Sounds good, but all they'd have to do is ask to see it in a public place, go over it and then decline, only to get their mates, who have been watching the whole thing from afar, to follow you till you get home.