A custom tune?

DZFord · 07-04-2009, 08:23 PM

Ok, just playing around with ideas...(stimulus package is on the way!)

What's the damage ($$) for a custom tune these days? (Remembering that there is NO "off-the-shelf" ECU mods for the 2.0L Duratec-HE engine).

Obviously Herrod's has an excellent name when it comes to tuning Fords - but is there anywhere else in Melbourne that you would recommend?

I think a tune is needed to take full advantage of the intake, headers and exhuast on the Focus. There has been a definite loss of bottom end torque, sacrificed for a little more high-end power.

Also, can a tune be readily 'lost?' For instance - if the ECU was reset? Or if the Ford Dealership re-flashed the ECU with the latest software for the Focus during a service? How easy would it be to restore?

Tuning is something I haven't looked into before, so don't know much about. But it does come highly recommended from many...

Piotr · 07-04-2009, 09:12 PM

Dreamscience should have a package to suit your needs.

DZFord · 07-04-2009, 09:24 PM

If only they did...

CHARGED TERRA · 07-04-2009, 09:34 PM

Have a look at these:

Just choose your car from the applications tab and see whats on offer.

http://www.superchips.co.nz/superchips.php

melbzetec · 07-04-2009, 09:37 PM

Dreamscience is dead I understand. SCT pulled the plug on them.

G&D Performance are quite good I understand.

With a tune you buy a tuning module...basically stores the tune. Should, say, a Ford Dealer reflash it, it is a simple matter of connecting the tuning module back to the OBD port and again dowloading the tune

CHARGED TERRA · 07-04-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbzetec

Dreamscience is dead I understand. SCT pulled the plug on them.
G&D Performance are quite good I understand.

With a tune you buy a tuning module...basically stores the tune. Should, say, a Ford Dealer reflash it, it is a simple matter of connecting the tuning module back to the OBD port and again dowloading the tune

Yep they sure did. Still working on it from what I know.

EDIT: I should point out that this statment is almost 2 & 1/2 yrs old. So dont hold your breath

Quote:

Dreamscience Marketing Statement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All

To save everyone a lot of time, we thought it necessary to clarify the position in Europe and justify the price differential between SCT Europe and SCT USA.

The difference between the two markets is a change in hardware set up, and mainly the software contained in the units. This software has been created for the European market at a great expense by SCT, CAPA, Dreamscience and other developers. Remember the money you pay for your device includes the fee for its license, the software, development and support.
The American Xcalibrator 2 is not compatible with the European data base and the DSF3000 is not compatible with the USA data base.
The money invested in developing the European data base has to be factored in to the overall cost of the DSF units for European calibration files. Since this market is far smaller than the USA, the factor in to each unit is greater, hence the overall higher price. This is an inevitable cost when creating a new data base, which is continuing to be developed to accommodate new calibrations as they are released.

We are very excited about bringing this new product and data base to Europe and commend SCT for all their efforts in getting this tuning solution finalised and we look forward to serving you.

The above statement is for marketing clarification and is not intended to invite speculation or discussion.

All the best
__________________
Jared Apollonios (K.O.R)
Dreamscience
Custom-Tuning
www.dreamscience.eu
jared@dreamscience.co.uk
SCT UK Distributor

DZFord · 07-04-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melbzetec

With a tune you buy a tuning module...basically stores the tune. Should, say, a Ford Dealer reflash it, it is a simple matter of connecting the tuning module back to the OBD port and again dowloading the tune

Thought that might be the case. Thanks mate.

I'll be sure to check out G&D as well.

Piotr · 07-04-2009, 10:03 PM

Last I heard Dreamscience are in the process of developing an in-house tuner, which makes sense as they have already invested heavily in developing a large amount of tunes.

Personally I would only buy a product that can be custom tuned to suit my needs (With base tunes supplied).

DZFord · 07-04-2009, 09:39 PM

The same problem there - bluefin / superchips make chips for just about every petrol Focus, except for the MK2 2.0L. The "2.0" Focus listed on their website, refers to the MK1 2.0L Focus, with the Zetec engine.

Thanks again for the suggestions guys.

Like I said, it would probably have to be a custom tune, if anything.

mohit · 07-04-2009, 11:26 PM

How about a Unichip piggy back ECU with a custom tune for your mods? The tune on the Unichip won't be erased and can simply be unlugged when you want to return your car to stock (like most other piggy back ECUs).

Speak to Ray of ART Tuning in Heidelberg. He works on the usual boosted Jap stuff but also works on Euro cars such as the Ferrari 360 and Maserati 3200GT that are at his shop now.

He's very reasonably priced and highly recommended.

DZFord · 08-04-2009, 09:44 AM

I haven't heard of Unichip before, so i'll look into it.

Thanks for the recommendation too. If he works on supercars he *should* be able to handle my Focus

BlackLS · 08-04-2009, 12:55 PM

A few people on ozmazdaclub have their engine run on Haltech ECUs

DZFord · 08-04-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackLS

A few people on ozmazdaclub have their engine run on Haltech ECUs

Ah good idea! I'll research that one too.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Mullett · 09-04-2009, 08:02 AM

I heartily recommend against it. Unless your car is a dedicated weekend racer, don't pull the ECU out for an aftermarket one, and don't put a piggyback on it. These new-generation ECUs are totally tuneable (within bounds), and it's far cheaper to tune your existing one than to wire in and tune an aftermarket one, plus the ECU will always be happy and not do bizzare things because it doesn't like the strange signals.

BPT motorsport quoted me about $320 from memory to tune mine, and estimated 15-20hpatw increase, which seems optimistic, but I have good faith in them. Hell, 10hp is a 10% increase. The other thing he said was that the midrange is VASTLY improved. I might still get it done, but I have decided to replace my focus at the end of the year with an 02-04 WRX, so it's a close call. maybe Rudd will pay for it :P

Remember that factory ECUs have thousands of hours of testing in EVERY condition imaginable to make sure they can handle anything, being able to fine-tune the AFR and spark curve and leave everything else alone means that your car will always start in the morning, always be nice to fuel, and not do something strange like lean itself out at 5000rpm because the humidity and air temperature are outside what it expected.

On the note of limitations of factory ECUs, BPT was confident that they could tune mine (with larger injectors) to suit a turbo at 10psi for $900-1.2k. For an aftermarket ECU with similar functionality (closed loop 02, cold start, dash readout for fuel consumption, blah blah blah) you'd be looking at 3k+ (Autronic and MoTeC come to mind)

-RM.

DZFord · 17-04-2009, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullett

BPT motorsport quoted me about $320 from memory to tune mine, and estimated 15-20hpatw increase, which seems optimistic, but I have good faith in them...

Herrod's quote = ~ $1500 for a custom tune. What are BPT not doing that Herrod's are?

melbzetec · 18-04-2009, 09:11 AM

$320 would be on top of the cost of getting the flash tuner itself I think you'll find

Piotr · 09-04-2009, 09:23 AM

^
Very good points Mullett

Why undo the good work of Ford engineers?

BrisVegas · 09-04-2009, 10:31 AM

is a custom tune on it's own worthwhile? i mean, is it realistic to expect much more than a few kw increase?

once my car is off-warranty I wouldn't mind freeing up the induction & exhaust ends of the equation, but i'd assume that is when a custom tune would be useful??? I dunno, never played with EFI/ECU cars before. In my old escort coupe it was pretty straighforward, air-filter, bigger carb, jetting, intake manifold, cam, compression, extractors and larger exhaust... just to keep up with traffic!

:

DZFord · 09-04-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrisVegas

...just to keep up with traffic!

:

Hahaha nice one.

Thanks for the interesting post Mullet, it does make good sense to have the stock ECU tuned. Much cheaper too!

Plus, it looks like I'm going to struggle to find a piggyback ECU that is compatible with the Focus - even the Haltech ECU's that work on the Mazda 3 don't appear to function on the Focus.

My question is, how is a custome tune on a stock ECU 'stored', eg. in case the new tune is lost?

CHARGED TERRA · 09-04-2009, 11:14 AM

Have a read of this over in the Terriory Forum mate.

But just so you know your tune is stored on a Flash box (not sure if this applies to a Focus as I dont own one)

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1&page=1&pp=25

DZFord · 09-04-2009, 04:53 PM

The thread is slightly confusing at times but very helpful! It's good to know that the factory tune will always be backed up on the flash box, which can be restored prior to servicing if necessary.

Mullett · 10-04-2009, 03:50 AM

yup, interceptors are a waste (to my mind) when you can play with a standard ECU, and an aftermarket one won't run the dash, possibly all the interior lighting etc is run by the ECU, it will no longer be legal or roadworthy...blah blah blah.

The tune is stored in the flash device, and can usually be saved on a laptop as well (although you'll need the flash device to upload tunes), you can flash and unflash the ECU as many times as you like, but I think it records a 'flash instance' each time, too many and your car will look sus if the dealer has a good look, but I really doubt the dealers would know how to pick a custom-tune from a standard one (or even if they'd have the gear for it), so leaving the original tune on there would be fine.

BrisVegas: Yes, as far as I've been told, there's big gains to be had in a custom tune, even on a stock car, 10-20hp peak power, and big mid-range gains (which is the biggest weak point on the Focus to my mind)

-RM.

DZFord · 10-04-2009, 07:11 PM

Ok great. The next thing to do is start getting quotes...realistically nothing will happen for a couple of months. I might have one last engine mod to do first, but i'm not promising anyone (or myself) anything just yet!

Mullett · 12-04-2009, 08:04 AM

Good stuff man, although I think a large amount of the cost of a tune on the Focus (or any other flash-tuned car) is the cost of the code in the first place. After you've bought the initial tune, anything you require after that will just be the cost of the dyno time (usually around $150 and hour).

-RM.

mohit · 12-04-2009, 10:07 AM

Didn't know the Foucs has a flashable ECU. In that case yes a piggy ECU would be a waste as you're paying for something you don't need.

DZFord · 12-04-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mohit

Didn't know the Foucs has a flashable ECU.

Well we'll soon find out!

ratter · 12-04-2009, 01:18 PM

anything from OBD2 is reflashable, it has to be, it's just whether anyone has a programme to do it

Mullett · 13-04-2009, 03:02 AM

Yes, it can be done, get in touch with BPT motorsport.

-RM.

DZFord · 13-04-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullett

Yes, it can be done, get in touch with BPT motorsport.

-RM.

That's a relief to know...but aren't they in Perth?!

Mullett · 17-04-2009, 12:27 AM

Ah, eastern states :P I'm tempted to get mine done, just to see what happens. BPT might be able to send your tuner a file if they've got the hardware. I'm not totally sure how it works, best to send them a PM or get in touch with your local tuner and see what can be done.

-RM.