Brake Dust - It's driving me nuts!!!!

[shayne93]

Ive got an AU Ute with FG XR6 Wheels, and I like them to look clean.
I can't keep the brake dust off them, I've got standard Ferodo Pads and I'm NOT running the shield between the rotor and wheel.

Do the shields stop the brake dust or are they a furfee? And should I be running a different brake pad to eliminate this? and yes I do have the horrid brake squeel.

[Sox]

It's the pads, get something different.
I like Bendix HD.

The dust shields I'm sure would help, but then the brakes won't cool as well either.

[crakrz]

As Sox has mentioned above, swap them out. Ferodo Pads are garbage. Cheap and dusty. I'm running Bendix, nil dust = clean wheels.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by shayne93

Do the shields stop the brake dust or are they a furfee?

Brake dust drove me up the wall in my AU (no shields).

My G6E has the original brake pads (whatever they are) and I've left the shield on in an attempt to not have dust.

I can report that brake dust is almost non-existent with the shields.

The pad material may also help but it didn't matter what I used on the AU I always had brake dust.

I'm much happier with shields

Try it yourself. You can always take them off again if you're not happy.

[shayne93]

I've taken the wheels off, given them a good bath on the front and back and repainted and fitted brake dust shields, We'll see how it goes.
If it's not good, I'll just have to get a set of bendix ultimates from work

[buggo]

Originally Posted by shayne93

I've taken the wheels off, given them a good bath on the front and back and repainted and fitted brake dust shields, We'll see how it goes.
If it's not good, I'll just have to get a set of bendix ultimates from work

I have ultimates on mine and they are verrrry dusty. I have dark argents, so pretty much the same colour as brake dust, and after a week (well under 200km) you can still see it on the dark wheel.
I had some other bendix's before this, ultra premiums from sca, and they weren't dusty and a lot cheaper too, but you notice the difference between the two.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by shayne93

I've taken the wheels off, given them a good bath on the front and back and repainted and fitted brake dust shields, We'll see how it goes.
If it's not good, I'll just have to get a set of bendix ultimates from work

I'm sure they'll keep the wheels clean, however be mindful the brakes will run hotter because the ventilation is dramatically reduced.
That may be of no consequence depending on how you drive.

[Sox]

The Ultimates were extremely dusty when I used them.
The HD's are clean.

[SirHenry]

I like the QFM's low dust low price good stopping power = good brake pad

[GK]

Originally Posted by SirHenry

I like the QFM's low dust low price good stopping power = good brake pad

+1

GK

[Day-mow]

dont drive it?

[Day-mow]

ultra premiums are a crappy pad though. i dont rate them at all i had no brakes once with them. they got changed to QFM's and theyre dusty but oh well.

[graham_h]

Bendix here too. Stealth ones. no noise. no dust

[Ride]

Originally Posted by graham_h

Bendix here too. Stealth ones. no noise. no dust
image

image

Wouldn't make a Brembo 4pot pad by any chance?

[graham_h]

Originally Posted by Ride

Wouldn't make a Brembo 4pot pad by any chance?

Not too sure. Hop on their website or give 'em call. The rubberised backing is great to. Didn't need any anti squeal goop

[mik]

as Ronwest has stated the shields stop the dust pretty good, as soon as i took mine off they became philthy.

[Mr Hardware]

Yeah i'm running QFM's at the moment - great pedal feel, very minimal dust, really good price, no noise. Winner.

[blueoval]

QFM HPX's here. Yes it has some dust, but not as much as Bendix ultimates did. Grip very well too.

[Professor Farnsworth]

i have Ferodo ThermoQuiet's on the front of my EL, and they are the worst, most noisy and dusty pads i've ever experienced, absolute garbage in my opinion

[lockieoc]

Welcome to the world of brake pads.
No matter what you want out of a brake pad there is always going to be a trade off.
If you want a performance pad then your going to have to put up with some noise a fair bit of dust.
If you want a clean pad then your going to have to put up with some reduced performance.

Farnsworth - Im extremely surprised your having issues with TQ's from all the first hand testing that i have seen is the TQ is a much superior pad compared to the GCT. I only recall of noise issues in the early stages of development with the TQ's but performance and rotor life is where they have always excelled in, as for dust, they were cleaner than GCTs.
I'm guessing that there has been an issue with the original bed in of the pads or perhaps there has been a slight alteration to the formula now that they are being manufactured in the US because the Ferodo plant in Thailand was/is underwater.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by lockieoc

If you want a clean pad then your going to have to put up with some reduced performance.

Does anyone know what that means in real world terms?

I can imagine that it's a deal on the track but for driving around town or on the open road, what does it actually mean?

One would think that if dust covers were a contributing factor in crashes, the ADR's would be amended to eliminate them or at least make them "safer".

[Sox]

Originally Posted by ronwest

Does anyone know what that means in real world terms?

I can imagine that it's a deal on the track but for driving around town or on the open road, what does it actually mean?

One would think that if dust covers were a contributing factor in crashes, the ADR's would be amended to eliminate them or at least make them "safer".

Who said anything about dust covers contributing to crashes?

Dust covers will simply reduce the air flow to the disk/caliper assembly, allowing to retain heat longer. This may or may not have an effect on stopping ability, it would depend on how the car is used.

If your car never exits the city you wouldn't notice a change.
If you regularly drive it at a rapid pace through the mountains, or even tow a large trailer, you may notice a decline in stopping ability.

The hotter pads get, the worse they perform.
Hard pads will work up to a higher temp, but with increased dust.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by Sox

Who said anything about dust covers contributing to crashes?

So if that's not an issue, what is?

I would have thought that the fear of brakes heating up (or loss of performance - or whatever the fear is) is the fear of not being able to stop in time.

"In time" meaning before you hit something or someone.

Or am I completely missing the point?

[Cam]

Originally Posted by lockieoc

Welcome to the world of brake pads.
No matter what you want out of a brake pad there is always going to be a trade off.
If you want a performance pad then your going to have to put up with some noise a fair bit of dust.
If you want a clean pad then your going to have to put up with some reduced performance.

This
+
If you want cleaner rims keep the dust covers on, if you want to be sure the brakes are getting maximum cooling, then take them off!

I've got Competition Pads on my AP's with no dust covers, they make lots of dust, don't brake well when cold, and can be noisy..
Does a run through the mountains make up for this? Yes!

Horses for Courses...

[Day-mow]

it means that if you push your car a less dusty pad will fade. you'll come into a corner and apply the brake but they'll be to hot and you wont slow down.
if you dont push your car it means very little

[blueoval]

Whether it's true or not, I wouldn't want to be the one to be the test pilot to prove or disprove the point.

The way I see it, dust covers are there to 'contain' dust particles getting onto the rims. As for them contributing to additional heat containment for braking efficiency, air flow is crucial for brakes to rid built up heat from the brake calipers and to maintain their performance power under duress.

When the car is moving, the air is directed from front to rear, effectively pushing air flow in this direction most of the time. In its moving state, the dust protectors do just that, protect against brake dust getting onto your rims during the cars movement.

Only when the car is stationary will there be a significant increase in heat with dust protectors on after the car has had it's braking capabilities measured. This additional heat could be considered insignificant of the car is left stationary for a long period of time. However if the car is used shortly after a run, the added heat will be there but unless you are doing a lot of brake work towing straight away after a prolonged stop, it will be insignificant also.

Again, this is what I think using my limited logic of reason and by no means is this to be taken as gospel. I am happy to be corrected.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Whether it's true or not, I wouldn't want to be the one to be the test pilot to prove or disprove the point.

The way I see it, dust covers are there to 'contain' dust particles getting onto the rims. As for them contributing to additional heat containment for braking efficiency, air flow is crucial for brakes to rid built up heat from the brake calipers and to maintain their performance power under duress.

When the car is moving, the air is directed from front to rear, effectively pushing air flow in this direction most of the time. In its moving state, the dust protectors do just that, protect against brake dust getting onto your rims during the cars movement.

Only when the car is stationary will there be a significant increase in heat with dust protectors on after the car has had it's braking capabilities measured. This additional heat could be considered insignificant of the car is left stationary for a long period of time. However if the car is used shortly after a run, the added heat will be there but unless you are doing a lot of brake work towing straight away after a prolonged stop, it will be insignificant also.

Again, this is what I think using my limited logic of reason and by no means is this to be taken as gospel. I am happy to be corrected.

The fact that dust shields reduce air flow to the brake system is just that, fact.
This has been understood for as long as I can remember.

I'm not quite sure why Ronwest is questioning this.

I will also go on to say that there will be differences when the car is moving to. The biggest differences IMO.
Think of it this way, the shield is restricting air flow through the wheel. Much of the cool air the brakes rely on will come from airflow through the wheel.
If this is reduced when using shields, then naturally brake cooling is reduced.

This is really basic stuff.

Also, as I've repeatedly pointed out, it may not effect 95% of users, however it will effect some. That's a fact.

What happens when you reduce the airflow through the radiator?
Then engine may overheat under some more extreme conditions.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by Sox

The fact that dust shields reduce air flow to the brake system is just that, fact.
This has been understood for as long as I can remember.

I'm not quite sure why Ronwest is questioning this..

We're not actually in disagreement about shields reducing airflow.

It's obvious that they do.

My question is about the degree of influence that has on brake fade.

Certainly some influence but I'd contend that if you're braking to the point of brake fade, dust shields are the least of your problems.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by ronwest

We're not actually in disagreement about shields reducing airflow.

It's obvious that they do.

My question is about the degree of influence that has on brake fade.

Certainly some influence but I'd contend that if you're braking to the point of brake fade, dust shields are the least of your problems.

Ok, we're getting somewhere.

On a recent trip around Victoria towing a caravan, myself, and my folks following with their rig, experienced brake fade.

My car is a AU XR8 220 with Tickford brakes, of which I replaced the pads with Bendix HD's before leaving.

My folks have a Territory with standard brakes, also replacing the pads with Bendix HD before leaving.

We were each towing a ~1200kg caravan.

For 90% of the trip, the brakes worked just fine and dandy, however, there were 2 occasions where we both experienced brake fade.
Once was approaching Woolongong, the other time was going through the snowys.

Neither of us were in any danger, however both needed considerably higher pedal pressure as we approached the bottom of each respective mountain.
My folks mentioned their brakes smelling somewhat.

Neither of us have dust shields.
How do you think shields would have effected the above scenarios?

My point being, sometimes, some people, in some situations will experience brake fade and there is no problem. It's just the nature of the beast.
Dust shields in these cases will not not help.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by Sox

How do you think shields would have effected the above scenarios?

I don't know. .0001% worse? 99% worse?

Originally Posted by Sox

My point being, sometimes, some people, in some situations will experience brake fade and there is no problem. It's just the nature of the beast.
Dust shields in these cases will not not help.

Agreed again. We are doing well, lol. But they may not hinder to any significant factor, either.

I have a brother who lives in Glen Innes. We go down there 5 or 6 times per year. Since the landslides at Cunninghams Gap (12 months ago during floods) the chances of not getting caught behind a truck doing 10 -15kph downhill for a few kilometres is very slim.

Following a truck + 20 or 30 cars down the gap, I've had brake fade on my AU without shields and I've had no brake fade on my FG with shields.

We're only debating degree which as we both know can change with circumstances. I absolutely accept that shields will have some
influence on brake fade. IMO it won't be much.

Anyhoo, I've had my say. Happy to read replies but I don't think there's much more I can contribute.