Boeing, what a mob of losers

[flappist]

Now this is not a an anti Boeing thread but...

1970s Boeing made a 747, it was fast (Mach .92) and climbed well, Now 30 years later the new models are heavier and fatter and are no faster and actually climb slower. Those winglets... what ricer marketing guru thought of putting them on. Maybe they should be an option for those who want to be individual. And those Vortex generators... rice, pure rice.

Come on Boeing, how do you expect to compete with Airbus if you do not perform better.

In recent tests the new Airbus A380 will outclimb you according to "Aero" and "Wings" and you have had those airframe problems you had to recall....

Now I am a Boeing man and have been all my life but if you do not bring out a new model soon that is faster than Airbus I will not fly on you anymore.

What happend to the days of "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going"?

You really have dropped the ball Boeing, the 400 series is heavier and slower than the 300 series, what a backstep you hopeless bastards.


N.B. this is satire.... there are limits to how far you can go in the real world.

[Casper]

The winglets actually dramatically reduce drag and therefore fuel usage.

Airbus are nice....unless your fling low over a French forest :

[M14A-Mclaren]

I heard Boeing were concentrating on short haul flights and Airbus concentrating on long haul flights, did I hear right?

[T_Terror]

Reminds me of Ford...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Reminds me of Ford...

Really? Strange that eh....

[Casper]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Reminds me of Ford...

yes, well, many of us got the not so subtle hint but if this thread takes 1 step that way and the T word or the F word are mentioned I'm going to slam a lock on it so fast your head will spin. Zero tolerance for that crap at the moment. :SaiyanSmi

Back to the Boeing/Airbus discussion folks...nothing to see here.

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by Casper

yes, well, many of us got the not so subtle hint but if this thread takes 1 step that way and the T word or the F word are mentioned I'm going to slam a lock on it so fast your head will spin. Zero tolerance for that crap at the moment. :SaiyanSmi

Back to the Boeing/Airbus discussion folks...nothing to see here.

?????????????????

Ed

[Jaeger]

Boeing dug their own hole.

Airbus went to them wanting to make a 747 replacement together but Boeing wasn't interested and now airbus has the A380 and Boeing missed out.

[EB-maen]

damn boeing, that really ticks me off

[!Gn|T|0n]

The wing tips create a higher pressure differential towards the ends of the wings resulting in more lift for a given wing span.

The A380 is a beautiful piece of kit but from what I’ve heard it caters to a somewhat larger market… one that Boeing must not justify entering into, or considers itself to have catered for given it’s current arsenal and the huge outlay that a model revision would cost. The fact that the 747 is still today the major large scale domestic unit is proof of its suitability to the purpose. Boeing also may not see the sense in designing an aircraft which requires terminal and airstrip modifications as the A380 does.

[Kapn_Kiwi]

Originally Posted by !Gn|T|0n

The wing tips create a higher pressure differential towards the ends of the wings resulting in more lift for a given wing span.

I thought they also cut down on drag because of the helix of air disturbed becoming smaller.

[paul7v7]

as far as I know the airbus hasn't been air tested yet, only simulated using computers. So we really don't know how this new one will go.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztra...380-usat_x.htm

So far, Airbus has built four test planes, and will soon start a fifth. The first plane has almost completed its ground tests and, in March, is expected to begin up to 1,000 hours of test flights leading to final safety certifications.

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=36220

[svo347]

I wonder does it use the ram jet idea or does it use old school tech hehe

[Casper]

Originally Posted by svo347

I wonder does it use the ram jet idea or does it use old school tech hehe

We're not going there are we? :ticking:

[svo347]

now now Shane was just tying to be sbutle about it ..

[Casper]

Originally Posted by svo347

now now Shane was just tying to be sbutle about it ..

Im not, we are not going there.

[TIKFD6]

You cant help yourself.
:P

[svo347]

Wha... Honest typo Kerry....

[TIKFD6]

LMOA, i beleive you mate, honest.

[Dark Horse]

Bring back the B707 and the B727. Loud, noisy, smokey, and cruised a bit quicker than the turbofan vacuum cleaner sound cruisers of today.

No actually just bring back the barrell rolls, something Boeing jetliners were famous for. Airbus fly-by-wire flight protection systems are for poofs.

[eed-250]

Im ****ed/maggoted but,
Winglets reduce induced drag which is a product of the creation of lift, ill take winglets anyday.
Who gives a **** if the A380 is so big n good! the fact i can cross controls in my boeing is enough to make me want to fly boeing
Airbus suck.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by eed-250

Im ****ed/maggoted but,
Winglets reduce induced drag which is a product of the creation of lift, ill take winglets anyday.
Who gives a **** if the A380 is so big n good! the fact i can cross controls in my boeing is enough to make me want to fly boeing
Airbus suck.

Ah yes but included in a A380 command endorsment is a playstation 2 (actually I think it is part of the MEL)
Also I have heard the CVR is actually a webcam........

Most often heard comment on the flight deck of a scarebus "what do you think it is doing now?"
Second most heard comment... "why has the flight director got a cross, square, triangle and circle on it?"

[Dark Horse]

Airbus Instructor:

"The fly-by-wire is so good and makes the aircraft so easy to fly, even a twelve year old can fly it."

Dutch B727 Captain

"Well then, give it to a twelve-year-old then, I am a pilot."

Dutch pilot storms out of the simulator.

[seano14]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

Airbus Instructor:

"The fly-by-wire is so good and makes the aircraft so easy to fly, even a twelve year old can fly it."

hmm, i believe thats the same airbus with fly by wire technology that i have a video of, shows it aborting a landing and skimming across the top of a forest before going down into it :

[Firefox7]

Originally Posted by seano14

hmm, i believe thats the same airbus with fly by wire technology that i have a video of, shows it aborting a landing and skimming across the top of a forest before going down into it :

Yeah...was a nasty....Incident.....but wasn't an accident.........! They were just testing the strength of the wings.....



Cheers...

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Firefox7

Yeah...was a nasty....Incident.....but wasn't an accident.........! They were just testing the strength of the wings.....



Cheers...

Unfortunately a young boy died in that one, as well as a flight attendant and another adult. The young boys' sister tried to help unbuckle his seatbelt, he told her to get out of the aircraft for her own sake whilst he continued in vain to get the bloody thing undone before smoke inhalation got to him. A flight attendant had been overcome by smoke inhalation whilst initiating evacuation proceedures, and the third fatality resulted from the same in inability to get one of the overwing emergency exits open.

What actually happened with the A320 that flew into the trees was this:

The A320 was planned to fly along an airstrip at Habsheim firstly doing a high speed pass at 200' clean, and then a low speed, high alpha pass with flaps and undercarriage extended.

During the descent for the low speed pass, the pilots engaged Open Descent Idle Mode (ODIM) on the Flight Control Panel. Pretty self explanatory really, the engine power is reduced to flight idle, as the aircraft descends. The pilots align the A320 with the runway for the second pass.

Whilst in normal operational phases of flight there is a function within the Airbus flight control system called alpha floor. What this basically does is as soon as a stall is detected (angle that the wings cut the air become so steep, the airflow pattern to produce sufficient lift is disrupted), engine thrust is automatically increased to maximum continuous thrust. Positive pitch is also commanded automatically. This is to prevent controlled flight into terrain.

However, once the undercarriage and flaps are extended, alpha floor is overridden for obvious reasons. Combined with the ODIM selected, there is no controlled flight into terrain protection. From the outset the A320 flight control system was never designed to hold 200'.

Most air traffic control towers are about 200' high and they are used as a reference for most low altitude passes. However as Habsheim is a smaller airfield, the tower was only 40' in height. This was about the altitude that the pilots realised the aircraft was too low.

As the aircraft was still in ODIM, it took a long time for the engines to spool up again - something like 4 seconds from 29% N1 (fan speed at the front of the engine) to 50% N1 (just to counteract the decaying airspeed - which at this stage had dropped off to 121 knots and still decreasing). It takes another 7 seconds for the engines to spool up from 50% N1 to 104% N1 (firewalling to get the aircraft some speed and hopefully altitude). This delay is in part due to the electronic engine controls and also due to the nature of the modern turbo fan engine.

Unfortunately there was not enough room for the aircraft to recover. According to the digital flight data recorder, the A320 had just started to climb when it struck the trees. As per the automation with the flight deck, the cabin crew also operate automated systems such as announcements, fire alarms and so forth, which also assist with situational awareness in emergencies.

Unfortunately, all the automation proved valueless as all electrical power to run it was cut out in after the initial impact. (The engines also double as generators, and when they stop running, so do all electrics). The cabin crew reverted to loudhailers, in amongs the smoke, panic and confusion. Unfortunately, not all the doors could be opened due to spot fires, and the ones that could've been opened were difficult to operate.

Deemed the uncrashable plane, Airbus was slammed for providing pilots with the ease and use of the flight systems. It provided a level of overconfidence amongst the pilots, that was again to be seen in yet another A320 accident almost exactly 2 years later.

Air France management was slammed for poor flight planning and preparation for the flyover at Habsheim. One of the noteworthy items was the attention to detail such as the obstacles and control tower heights that were not briefed to the pilots. Air France was also slammed for executing such a stunt - a 200' low speed pass with passengers onboard is a considerable disregard for duty of care.

The pilots could also be apportioned blame, in allowing the A320 to fly as low as 40' with airspeed decaying beyond 121 knots. One of the comments made by the Captain was the delay between applying thrust and through the electronic engine controls the spoolup rate to maximum thrust. However, considering the circumstances placed on them, they were as much victims of the outcome as any onboard.

[flappist]

Didn't realise there were so many tech crew on here.....

[old_mate]

I've spent a little time working on 767's, 747's, and A330's

Boeing are a known thing. Pretty reliable, old school technology etc etc. 747-300's are pieces of shit. Lots of stuff likes to break (even A checks are nightmares)

The 400's are much better, but still, are getting old

Havent had much to do with the Airbus but it seems to be a decent enough thing. When they do break though, they tend to make a good job of it

Im not really looking forward to working on the A380. We struggle enough now getting 350 odd TV's working for you punters, imagine trying to keep on top of 500 odd lol. Gimme a 737 license and a domestic terminal job anyday

[old_mate]

I have seen this video heaps of times

I thought it was more the pilot had not engaged the autopilot properly, therefore maintained altitude even though trees were coming up (he was doing the fly by for the camera's/airshow)

have some history on that incident, will probably go find it tomorrow. There has been controlled flight into terrain with Boeing's too, you know....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by old_mate

There has been controlled flight into terrain with Boeing's too, you know....

Not many with with expat tech crew.......