How many times is too many??

[TerriBerk]

We purchased a 2010 Territory from a Ford dealership and took possession of it early January. So far we have had to be towed twice, perhaps soon to be 3rd time tomorrow as well as taking it back there 1 other time due to work needing to be done on it, that our own mechanic picked up. We also have it booked in for some rust in the back door to be fixed.

So all up in less than 3 months, the car has had to be taken back 5 times. The dealer has reasons for each of the things going wrong and says it is just bad timing (co-incidence). The car had 60,000 k's on it. We paid $23,000 for it.

Have told them more than once that we have lost faith in the product. Thought we were safer going through a big ford dealer. Standard 3 months 5000 k warranty.

We would like a refund. But doubt they would even agree to this. Any advice?

[xisled]

Unfortunately buying a 6 year old car you may have problems.

If Ford are fixing it with no issues then you probably won’t have a chance of a refund.

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/he...funds-for-cars

have a look at the ACCC site as each state is different.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by xisled

Unfortunately buying a 6 year old car you may have problems.

I own a 34 year old car.
No problems.
Must be a complicated-computer-filled-new-car problem....

[Dave R]

What specifically were the problems?

[Vesper Martini]

Rust in back door, you might mean in the tailgate, a known problem if not painted properly in the factory, should be fixed under 5 year body corrosion warranty.

To receive any more advice you will need to more specific on the other problems. what are the 5 other problems?

[Trump]

There is a chance the panel perforation warranty has expired being a 2010 build.

[TerriBerk]

Thanks for everyone reply.

Current problem. The car wouldn't start. Not a sound. All lights, radio, air con etc worked. Has started this morning.

1st Problem was the bolt falling out of the shock at the back the day after taking possession of the car.

2nd problem brake malfunction light stayed on and a brake fluid hose was damaged and brake fluid leaking everywhere. They fixed it and said the connection to the hose had come loose. Also I mentioned to them that the car shuddered when braking and they machined the rotor discs.

3rd problem, brake pads were worn at the front to at least 80%, back 60%. Surely they should have at least replaced the front ones when selling the car. Also CV boot was damaged and grease was coming out.

Yes there is rust in the tailgate, etc. Have told them I want this fixed.

Between paying the money for the car on pickup, we paid a small holding deposit. They said they need to do their normal 100 mechanical check and detail the car.

They said they replaced bushes. However after having these other problems I asked for a report on work they did inbetween our deposit and final payment.

They had replaced Joint RR suspension ball.
Replace leaking master cylinder.
replaced 2 bushes, rear suspension.
Replace leaking steering rack.

Now I asked why we couldn't pick the vehicle up on the arranged day. Was told they were waiting on a part. I asked what is wrong with the car and they said, don't know. (salesperson).

On pickup the next day we were told the parts were for replacing all 4 bushes.

Just had a return phone call from the Manager and he said it sounds like the car wouldn't start because the key was turned too quickly and it shut down because the computer registered it was perhaps being stolen. I asked how long it would shut down for is this happened. He said, around 10 minutes. Well the car wouldn't start at all for over an hour and a half of us trying every half hour or more.

Taking it out so they can run a diagnostic to see if it registered anything.

[blackf6]

It is a used car mate. I bought a used car 14 days ago. It has been in the workshop 5 out of the 14 days. Every used car has problems. Dealers get quick roadworthy's and try to pass repairs onto unsuspecting consumers. In an atempt to collect more profit. Just as consumers trade cars with problems they don't want to fix. But expect top dollar trade prices. Buy enough used cars. You factor this in. Warranty is useless 90 percent of the time.

[mechanic]

Very similar scenario to trading in your old car. The previous owner knew about these problems so took a trade in price that he probably wasn't happy with.

The dealer wants to make a few bucks and hocks it off after doing the minimum, knowing full well that the next buyer probably doesn't have the time or patience to sit on his doorstep.
Hence the current situation.
Annoy them enough and you'll get things fixed.

[TerriBerk]

Luck of the draw hey. They are fixing them because I am onto them about it. Tried to force them to give a written extended free warranty after all of this happening, but they won't budge on that.

This car was purchased brand new from the same dealer in 2010 and it has had all of its services at the same dealer since purchased new. You would think or hope that they know the car and any potential problems and they are a ford dealer.

I thought the same about this happening all at once and was feeling confident as I drove out with the car last weekend. Doubt the starting problem is the anti theft device as I just took the car for a 5 minute drive to the petrol station. I started it and it was fine then almost immediately it turned itself off.

Anyhow off to the dealer again to get it looked at. No longer confident, no matter how smiling and reassuring the General Manager is.

[Stefan]

I'm not a member of the terry fan club, in fact, quite the opposite....BUT, bar the rust issue, this sounds like it's just poorly maintained car rather than terry specific issues.

I doubt you'll get your money back with those issues. Maybe get the car looked over by a good mechanic and have him list and or rectify the minor stuff and know it is done.

80% worn brakes....tough luck on that one IMO.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by blackf6

It is a used car mate. I bought a used car 14 days ago. It has been in the workshop 5 out of the 14 days. Every used car has problems. Dealers get quick roadworthy's and try to pass repairs onto unsuspecting consumers. In an atempt to collect more profit. Just as consumers trade cars with problems they don't want to fix. But expect top dollar trade prices. Buy enough used cars. You factor this in. Warranty is useless 90 percent of the time.

Not every used car has problems . Cars that have been maintained should be completely serviceable and have no issues . Ones that have not be maintained obviously have issues that haven't been fixed as they occurred.
Territories are popular family cars that in many cases get used as a tool rather than liked after like an enthusiasts cars. There are exceptions but you have much higher chance of finding a GT in great condition than a Territory .

[Sox]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Not every used car has problems . Cars that have been maintained should be completely serviceable and have no issues .

Mostly not though.
If I buy a 6yo car with 60,000k's I would expect problems at any time, don't care how well it's been maintained.
Nature of the beast.



I also see no issue with 80% worn brake pads, I mean why would you change if there's 20% left? That could be another 20,000k's.
If you want everything new, buy a brand new car...

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by Sox

Mostly not though.
If I buy a 6yo car with 60,000k's I would expect problems at any time, don't care how well it's been maintained.
Nature of the beast.

I also see no issue with 80% worn brake pads, I mean why would you change if there's 20% left? That could be another 20,000k's.
If you want everything new, buy a brand new car...

If you're the mechanic in the used car dealership just try it and see how you go convincing the boss to fit new pads if there's still 20% left.
His reply will be- " will it pass a RWC? " if you say "yes" he's not going to spend time and money on fitting new pads.
There's bugger all money in the car game. that's why trade in prices are flat and a minimum spent on vehicles for resale.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mechanic

If you're the mechanic in the used car dealership just try it and see how you go convincing the boss to fit new pads if there's still 20% left.
His reply will be- " will it pass a RWC? " if you say "yes" he's not going to spend time and money on fitting new pads.
There's bugger all money in the car game. that's why trade in prices are flat and a minimum spent on vehicles for resale.

Even at the dealership, we were fitting used tyres to get the trade ins past a RWC.

Never in a million years would I fit used tyres to my car.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Sox

Mostly not though.
If I buy a 6yo car with 60,000k's I would expect problems at any time, don't care how well it's been maintained.
Nature of the beast.



I also see no issue with 80% worn brake pads, I mean why would you change if there's 20% left? That could be another 20,000k's.
If you want everything new, buy a brand new car...

Thats where we differ , to me well maintained 60k car should not have any issues . Brand new does not mean much to me - by 60k unless the car is a lemon most small issues if there are any will be sorted - car should be perfect by then. Most buyers these days buy new for warranty piece of mind - if the car goes in for warranty repairs 5 times a year ,car is a dud - I don't care how new it is.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Seems to be minor issues, and normal for buying a second had car.

Nothing to worry about, it's not like you had a major mechanical failure or issues.

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Thats where we differ , to me well maintained 60k car should not have any issues. Brand new does not mean much to me - by 60k unless the car is a lemon most small issues if there are any will be sorted - car should be perfect by then. Most buyers these days buy new for warranty piece of mind - if the car goes in for warranty repairs 5 times a year, car is a dud - I don't care how new it is.

I'd agree with these comments. In the "old days" a vehicle with only 35,000 miles on the clock was considered just run in. These days, 10,000km a year is nothing; it must've had a hard on-road life, or not been garaged for 6 years.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Thats where we differ , to me well maintained 60k car should not have any issues . Brand new does not mean much to me - by 60k unless the car is a lemon most small issues if there are any will be sorted - car should be perfect by then. Most buyers these days buy new for warranty piece of mind - if the car goes in for warranty repairs 5 times a year ,car is a dud - I don't care how new it is.

Brand new means nothing to me either, I will never buy brand new again, it's simply not worth it.

60k isn't a lot of mileage, however to think there won't be problems is kidding yourself.
Brand new cars have plenty problems, why would you think at 60k there won't be? It makes no sense.

There's no such thing as a 'sorted' car, things go wrong all the time, they're very very complex machines.

[Qwerty321]

Originally Posted by blackf6

It is a used car mate. I bought a used car 14 days ago. It has been in the workshop 5 out of the 14 days. Every used car has problems. Dealers get quick roadworthy's and try to pass repairs onto unsuspecting consumers. In an atempt to collect more profit. Just as consumers trade cars with problems they don't want to fix. But expect top dollar trade prices. Buy enough used cars. You factor this in. Warranty is useless 90 percent of the time.

Steady on mate. I've bought used cars and none of them have had issues like this. Cars my family buy are usually around a decade old and cost 2-5k NZD. Never had major issues with any of them.

But yea, used cars and dealers are usually a bad combination. We always get our used cars checked over by our mechanic before purchasing them. That said all cars will break, new or old doesn't make much difference. If anything old is better cause you can just chuck in some aftermarket part, not the genuine factory stuff that costs 3 times as much.

Originally Posted by TUF_302

When i got the missus her new car (04 Magna), to replace her VT it had a dead battery the very next day, went straight to the dealer we got it from and that happily gave me a brand new battery and were very apologetic, just shows even though we only brought a cheap 4g car the little dealer was more than happy to help, not all car yards are bad, the bad ones just make it harder to trust any of them

Exactly. The car dealer we go to is probably the only honest dealer in the entire auckland region. Some are terrible but every now and then you find a good yard. Just in case anyone in the auckland area needs a cheepo car, go to Pearce Brothers in Otahuhu. They have 5 (or something like that) different yards each dealing with different niche's and price ranges.

[Pepscobra]

I'm sorry to hear of the problems.
But on a positive note, none of them sound major and can easily be repaired.
Consider yourself even luckier they have all been detected within the 3 month warranty.
Get them all sorted and you can be pretty confident you will have a sturdy vehicle for many years to come. They do have some gremlins, but overall are pretty bullet proof.

[Yellow_Festiva]

If I recall, a factory warranty stops when your car is off the road due to warranty issues then starts again when you take it back. Not sure if it is the case across the board?

Could this be the case with the stat warranty as well?

I would get a professional inspection done well and truly before the 90 days expires and present the findings in the hope they come to the party with some of the repairs. There may be other underlying issues that will show up later.

Not sure how enforceable the repairs can be but worth a shot while they are legally bound to fix any issues.

Was this bought from a dealer?

[Vesper Martini]

Sounds like the previous owner traded the car with a few suspension and brake issues.
This is not unusual for any car that has been traded.

You are safer going through the a big ford Dealer, and I'm sure they will fix up everything.
Use that 3 month warranty as you should and get those Gremlins sorted. and they car will be good to go.

From what you described it sounds like you have gone to a good dealer - be glad of that

[grey_esp]

I dont normally chime in on these sorts of things but It sounds to me like you didnt give the car proper inspection before you bought it. If your not experienced in this area then you should have arranged for an independent inspection prior to buying. You cant buy a used car and then complain about issues it clearly had at the time you put the deposit on it (rust doesn't appear over night).

But also I think some of the issue it has sounds like it wasn't put back together properly after the dealer carried out the repairs. IE the loose strut would have been removed when they did the bushes or the ball joint and the loose brake line was probably a result of the changed master cylinder, and the starting issue is probably just a loose battery lead, so they need to be checking the apprentices work a little more closely.

Good luck with it. I also have a 2010 and while it has its short comings its been the best car we have every had as far as reliability and practicality goes.

[TerriBerk]

Thanks grey_esp. Yep everything you mentioned about the work, not putting things back together and also the loose brake line.

True about getting an independent inspection. We did take the car to our mechanic 2 weeks ago with the list of things done to it and he checked those and found other things which we presented to the dealer and they fixed. Agree that perhaps not enough inspection being done on the work.

The rust. Well it is quite hidden under rubber seals and hard to find places. But the more you look the more hidden rust I am finding. Nothing huge, just lots of little sections in the tailgate.

Yes Bev, at least they are fixing the problems. Gave us a top of the line courtesy car today.

Stefan and Yellow Festiva, already got it looked at by my mechanic. He went over all the service and replacement/repair reports and checked that work as well as going over the rest of it and gave me a list of issues that needed fixing, which the dealer have done also. Any work done by the mechanic has an extended warranty from date of repair. So whatever it needs done now will have a 3 month warranty from todays date.

[nuthin' fancy]

While I see some shortcomings in your approach (getting an independant inspection after you have purchased, your mechanic would have picked up all these things had he looked at the car prior to your purchase), you have a warranty that you can use to get the car into the condition you hoped it would be in before you purchased it.

Feeling hard done by in the purchase of a nearly six year old car will not be grounds for a refund, you will have to make the best of the ownership you are now committed to. I'm sure your mechaninc will do a far better job of maintaining the car than the dealer you bought it from (and who have serviced it from new) have done.

It does raise the question of how short sighted the dealer has been in selling a car originally sold by them and always serviced by them. They had an opportunity to recruit a client in demonstrating the quality of their work but their actions will create that exact opposite result.

Learn to love your Terry.

[Brazen]

Sounds like a good dealer, fixing every problem you have identified and are cheerful and helpful.

[GCRXR6]

Gotta love folk who buy a 6 year old car and expect it to be trouble free.

[OzriderXR8]

I agree it's a second hand car and it is largely buyer beware, however, you have bought this from a major dealer with a full service history and in my view would rightly have an expectation that at least the obvious things would have been done before you took delivery. At the very least you would expect anything that related to a RWC would have been checked and replaced.

Dealer obviously doesn't care about reputation.

On a positive at least they are fixing the issues and not stuffing you around.

[roddy1960]

G'day..Not specific to this individual car but I wonder what it is with some cars ,even brand new ones when a bunch of faults either totally coincidental or if the car has an inherent fault from some aspect of that car's original build occur..Ford Territory have a great reputation but the often used term 'lemon' can apply here too..Not suggesting that this car is one by any means by the way. Also it could have been through a flood , someone might have backed it off a boat ramp or a myriad of other reasons to cause these issues and electronics hate water or external invasions of rodents ,incorrect jump start procedures ,all sorts of things..Gee I hope it gets sorted for you real soon to your satisfaction..Cheers Rod..