V6 Holdens are BAD!

Smoke Pursuit · 21-07-2008, 08:28 PM

Hey guys,

I was unlucky enough to score a MY06 VZ Wagon today, the car was a late 06 / early 07 build (didnt check the plate), had 9000 kms on it and it was dirty dirty..

Neways what a POS!!! It would have to be the worse car I have driven in the last 4 years.. In comparison to the BA / BF Falcons ive driven it was slow, rough, and damn underbraked!!! The quality of the interior was bad (the VE is better)..

My question is however how the hell did the VY / VZ outsell Ford?? Like seriously, this car is slower at every speed, from a stand still you gun it and it has to rev its nuts off to get to 5,500 rpm, at 60 kms an hour you boot it and it doesnt drop a gear, just struggles its rear end off (no torque).

Overall i would rate this car a 3 / 10 in comparison to 6.5 / 10 for the last BF MKII XT i drove..

Disgraceful, i feel sorry for the people who actually thought / think the Vy / VZ was a good car, and even more so those who bought one.

bonspeed · 21-07-2008, 08:30 PM

Dopey one eyed holden supporters?

bodes-sh · 21-07-2008, 08:31 PM

vy was better, no drive by wire and a 3.8 instead of 3.6. still they are very gutless for a large car...

mad cow · 21-07-2008, 08:37 PM

they have a holden badge, thats why people buy them. just look at the daewoo kalos, they couldnt give them away!!!! but put on a hoden badge and call it a barina and whammo its a good seller... go figure.

:

burnz · 21-07-2008, 08:47 PM

that i'll teach you to get a six.
next time get an eight. if their is a next time.

Falc'man · 21-07-2008, 08:58 PM

It's more to do with fleet sales Brent, and very little to do with personal preference. Same goes with Toyota's sales, they've got the government sales all sown up in QLD.

DoreSlamR · 21-07-2008, 09:02 PM

Why do they sell? Its coz Holdens go better

Just because..no reasons given so take their word for it ok

schnoods · 21-07-2008, 09:11 PM

I went to a car Ex governement Auction last week, Ba mk2's were going for 10-14 with between 20-40,000 on the clock, while VZ station wagoons were going for 10-12 grand with a hundred thousand on the clock, no shortage of bidding and i was dumbfounded.

Having driven both I was stunned, A few BA-BF's didnt meet reserve due to lack of interest, every VZ sold for a couple grand more despite being rougher body wise, an older shape, and higher km's too..

One thing for needs to learn from Holden is Marketing, when you can sell an inferior product regardless of competition it says something..

Smoke Pursuit · 21-07-2008, 09:14 PM

Yeh well, this car felt like an EF... No joke and I have driven plenty of E series cars to compare it to.. It was a junk bucket....

Falc'man · 21-07-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yeh well, this car felt like an EF... No joke and I have driven plenty of E series cars to compare it to.. It was a junk bucket....

Don't insult the EF! Or any E-series for that matter.

Smoke Pursuit · 21-07-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Don't insult the EF! Or any E-series for that matter.

Wasnt meant to insult E series, just saying that Holdens Techonlogy feels 10 years older then ours.. As for the Junk bucket part, thats Directed at the horrible motor!

Ease up turbo!!!!!!!!

tapeworm · 22-07-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Wasnt meant to insult E series, just saying that Holdens Techonlogy feels 10 years older then ours.. As for the Junk bucket part, thats Directed at the horrible motor!

Ease up turbo!!!!!!!!

I have a 95 EF Mont, the old man has a VX, drivetrain wise my car is very much superior to drive, no joke. Don't get me started on the Commo 4 speed, what a shocker this thing is.

RG · 22-07-2008, 10:33 AM

Swordsman88 · 22-07-2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yeh well, this car felt like an EF... No joke and I have driven plenty of E series cars to compare it to.. It was a junk bucket....

As an owner of a good ol EF Gli (with some light mods...) i can 100% confirm this. Mate of mine used to work for the university fleet here in brisvegas....they have all commies, VT-VE, with all the wagons/utes VY-VZ. We used to take them for a spin when he had them at his place. I can honestly say that there was no reall improvement between these two models for holden (yes, that is despite the 'so called' HF GM V6). In fact in some ways i prefer the old buick engine, rough as guts, but it seemed to work better with the old 4 speed and actually have more torque down low (though nowhere near a Falcon I6).

And boy is that 4 speed rubbish...worst auto box EVER. Including all the old autos i have used in X series included, that is the worst auto known to man...unrefined, dimwitted, harsh, noisy etc. Makes the engines look worse then they are. The Alloytec needs to be revved to hell to do anything, and the box bangs home every change, often the wrong one, followed by another kickdown, then a last minute upchange. I've driven probably 5-6 different commodored VT-VE and they all do it.

I said to my mate that i wouldn't put the VY on par with an AU let alone a B series, and that in many respects it was like my EF. He told me to get off it, surely it ain't that bad. It is. Simple things like door locking actuator sounds, engine noise, even handling. For an IRS set up that is one lump of you know what...my watts link is better in most respects.....The cars we drove were understeering pigs when pushed too.....the soft as rear end is the only thing that saved it in terms of power down, but with a load in the wagons as a result it was on its bum.....Utes were even worse.

You can make a case for V8 VEs, but other than that you will struggle to find a decent commodore drivetrain in the modern era. Their 6 pot drivetrain, is as LS noted, literally a decade out of date. The fact they still have that 4 speed, designed for GM trucks in the 80s, is a disgrace.

: I don't want to come off as a one eyed Holden basher, but in this area LS is totally correct. Holden+V6+4sp = CRAP. No matter what they put it in!

Smoke Pursuit · 22-07-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

As an owner of a good ol EF Gli (with some light mods...) i can 100% confirm this. Mate of mine used to work for the university fleet here in brisvegas....they have all commies, VT-VE, with all the wagons/utes VY-VZ. We used to take them for a spin when he had them at his place. I can honestly say that there was no reall improvement between these two models for holden (yes, that is despite the 'so called' HF GM V6). In fact in some ways i prefer the old buick engine, rough as guts, but it seemed to work better with the old 4 speed and actually have more torque down low (though nowhere near a Falcon I6).

And boy is that 4 speed rubbish...worst auto box EVER. Including all the old autos i have used in X series included, that is the worst auto known to man...unrefined, dimwitted, harsh, noisy etc. Makes the engines look worse then they are. The Alloytec needs to be revved to hell to do anything, and the box bangs home every change, often the wrong one, followed by another kickdown, then a last minute upchange. I've driven probably 5-6 different commodored VT-VE and they all do it.

I said to my mate that i wouldn't put the VY on par with an AU let alone a B series, and that in many respects it was like my EF. He told me to get off it, surely it ain't that bad. It is. Simple things like door locking actuator sounds, engine noise, even handling. For an IRS set up that is one lump of you know what...my watts link is better in most respects.....The cars we drove were understeering pigs when pushed too.....the soft as rear end is the only thing that saved it in terms of power down, but with a load in the wagons as a result it was on its bum.....Utes were even worse.

You can make a case for V8 VEs, but other than that you will struggle to find a decent commodore drivetrain in the modern era. Their 6 pot drivetrain, is as LS noted, literally a decade out of date. The fact they still have that 4 speed, designed for GM trucks in the 80s, is a disgrace.

: I don't want to come off as a one eyed Holden basher, but in this area LS is totally correct. Holden+V6+4sp = CRAP. No matter what they put it in!

And i wasnt trying to belittle the E series cars either, infact I think they are a better car, if i had the choice between our old EL Ghia and what i drove yesturday, id take the EL Ghia any day!!!!!!! Not bad for a car thats 10 years older!

Swordsman88 · 22-07-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

And i wasnt trying to belittle the E series cars either, infact I think they are a better car, if i had the choice between our old EL Ghia and what i drove yesturday, id take the EL Ghia any day!!!!!!! Not bad for a car thats 10 years older!

I understand what you are saying LS....the EF/EL weren't too bad for back in the day. Hindsight shows that while they sure aren't a modern car, they get the job done very well and you can keep em running on pittance these days (fuel aside...).

I'm sure the commies have some advantages over an EF (being 10 years newer helps too) but that drivetrain is just so infuriating i wouldn't even consider buying one. It dumbfounds me Holden fans, some of them relatively impartial/logical foke, still think a VE Alloytec with 4 speed in an omega is good. Look at Honda Accord, Toyo Aurion, Nissan Maxima, Falcon etc. ALL these cars totally destroy a VE Omega for drivetrain perforamance, refinement, fuel burn, even sound (that alloytec sounds sick, has since VZ).

Holden fans talk about 'caddilac' DI HFV6 coming soon, like it is their saviour. Well it better, because they will need just to be competitive with what is out in the market now. They havent a clue....

da_ilks · 22-07-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V3RSAC3

Just curious, as i know we talkin bout the V6 here, but does anybody know how the VZ 6L Calais' drive? are they lighter on steering? ... as my old man's looking at updating from his BA too one ...

I'm not sure if Holden still do the variable power steering (they used too on Calais/Statesman), which is what reduces the load on the wheel at low speeds. Check out the specs at Redbook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Holden fans talk about 'caddilac' DI HFV6 coming soon, like it is their saviour. Well it better, because they will need just to be competitive with what is out in the market now. They havent a clue....

Even with an inferior drivetrain Commodores routinely outsell the Falcon, so the uncompetitive product can't be all that bad. If Holden needs the new engine to be their 'saviour' then what chance does Ford have with the Falcon?

That's a far more worrying concern....

GTP290 · 21-07-2008, 09:20 PM

I drove a VE SSV on the weekend, I was considering trading my two cars in on it and use it as a daily. HOLDENS DO NOT GO BETTER, the 6.0 litre which I expected to have loads more down load torque than my 4 speed BOSS motor was slower down low and had to be pushed hard for the gearbox to kick down and rev its tits off, It felt like a four speed box behind it, brakes were solid and just felt marginal for the weight of the car which pulled up with no urgency. The trim was also poorly peiced together with bits flapping on the rear windscreen and the headrest plastic inserts on top off the seats all uneven. Maybe I was expecting way to much from this car, but being an 07 model with 12000 kms on the clock and supposedly car of the year two times running just made me wonder how much looks sell cars and quality doesnt.
Id consider buying this car based on the looks of it because I do like the look of it, but dont try tell me its better than a FG or a BFII for that mattter, because its got a long way to go before it can claim that title.

El Sucio · 21-07-2008, 09:30 PM

Marketing...purely and simply marketing.

If there is one thing you have to tip your hat to Holden is their marketing. Could you imagine how many sales they would make if they combined their marketing team with Ford's current product offerings...

The mind boggles.

Wally · 22-07-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP290

I drove a VE SSV on the weekend, I was considering trading my two cars in on it and use it as a daily. HOLDENS DO NOT GO BETTER, the 6.0 litre which I expected to have loads more down load torque than my 4 speed BOSS motor was slower down low and had to be pushed hard for the gearbox to kick down and rev its tits off, It felt like a four speed box behind it, brakes were solid and just felt marginal for the weight of the car which pulled up with no urgency. ...............

The box does not kick back like a 4 speed, because it's a six speed and you probably didn't engage the go fast switch on the console. Of course you could have kicked down yourself by using the sequential shift.

As someone already stated, you need to get used to a car, not the brand. The VZ has an entirely different feel to the VE. My 5.7 would snap the neck with foot planted, my 6.0 doesn't, but insidiously it does get up to speed faster. And from my perspective the Falcon I test drove didn't have a superior finish and didn't have anywhere near the pull of the 6.0, if that's what is important when buying a car.

El Sucio I didn't like the VE six package either, but then I haven't had a Holden six since my VL Turbo. I did have a Yamaha "Duratech" six in the Taurus and if it had 170kW as marketed, then the 5.0 Holden 8 had 300kW by comparison. So come 2010 you may find the Falcon feels very much like an Alloytech.

Aeron · 22-07-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP290

I drove a VE SSV on the weekend, I was considering trading my two cars in on it and use it as a daily. HOLDENS DO NOT GO BETTER, the 6.0 litre which I expected to have loads more down load torque than my 4 speed BOSS motor was slower down low and had to be pushed hard for the gearbox to kick down and rev its tits off

Easy fix, get a manual SSV. The auto is shocking!

As for the V6, I wouldn't bother at all.

:

vanman_75 · 21-07-2008, 09:25 PM

a bloke i was talking to at wedding the other night is going from xr6t to an sv6 , says it drives nice
somehow i think peer pressure ,and the i just want 1 joke is making em leave our stable.
if he was getting an ss id say apples and apples ,but why anyone would buy that lump on purpose is beyond me

stevz · 21-07-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Hey guys,

I was unlucky enough to score a MY06 VZ Wagon today, the car was a late 06 / early 07 build (didnt check the plate), had 9000 kms on it and it was dirty dirty..

Neways what a POS!!! It would have to be the worse car I have driven in the last 4 years.. In comparison to the BA / BF Falcons ive driven it was slow, rough, and damn underbraked!!! The quality of the interior was bad (the VE is better)..

My question is however how the hell did the VY / VZ outsell Ford?? Like seriously, this car is slower at every speed, from a stand still you gun it and it has to rev its nuts off to get to 5,500 rpm, at 60 kms an hour you boot it and it doesnt drop a gear, just struggles its rear end off (no torque).

Overall i would rate this car a 3 / 10 in comparison to 6.5 / 10 for the last BF MKII XT i drove..

Disgraceful, i feel sorry for the people who actually thought / think the Vy / VZ was a good car, and even more so those who bought one.

Bit of a silly exaggeration don't you think?
For their intended purpose, they do the job more than adequately. They are not a performance car and I fail to understand why some people expect them to behave as such. People who buy these type of cars do not jump in them and drive them at ten tenths every day.

Smoke Pursuit · 21-07-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

Bit of a silly exaggeration don't you think?
For their intended purpose, they do the job more than adequately. They are not a performance car and I fail to understand why some people expect them to behave as such. People who buy these type of cars do not jump in them and drive them at ten tenths every day.

Hardly..

Im not comparing it to my BFII Super Pursuit, im comparing it to the dozens of BA / BF XT's ive driven, which would kill it in just about every way.. The Gearbox Engine would be the biggest let down for the car, the v6 is appauling... You dont need to drive it like a race car to see its downfalls, specially in the torque department.

I would go as far as saying the Mitsubishi 380 is even a better car, and considering how much of a failure it was, thats a big statement.

I also now see why the V8's were so popular, especially on the luxury models.. to buy a V6 Statesmen would be an embarrassment going on how this thing powered up and down hills today..

V3RSAC3 · 21-07-2008, 09:34 PM

I love the VZ, my missus has one, and they are WONDERFULL cars to drive! although I do agree that they aren't very powerful and the steering is very heavy (compared to my AU), although I just love driving it, I don't know why but i think it's AWSOME ...

:

I'd consider buying a VZ over a BF if i was to update anytime soon, but thats just my personal oppinion

Smoke Pursuit · 21-07-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V3RSAC3

I love the VZ, my missus has one, and they are WONDERFULL cars to drive! although I do agree that they aren't very powerful and the steering is very heavy (compared to my AU), although I just love driving it, I don't know why but i think it's AWSOME ...

:

I'd consider buying a VZ over a BF if i was to update anytime soon, but thats just my personal oppinion

Thats your choice and good on you, but why you would buy a product that was inferior is beyond me.. The only thing the VZ does better then the BF is it has a digital speedo...

V3RSAC3 · 21-07-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Thats your choice and good on you, but why you would buy a product that was inferior is beyond me.. The only thing the VZ does better then the BF is it has a digital speedo...

Yeah that's true, and i don't really know why I would, it's just somethings gotten me about them and I dont know what it is .. I just really like them .. I dunno hey, must just be personal taste.

16wantsI6 · 21-07-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Thats your choice and good on you, but why you would buy a product that was inferior is beyond me.. The only thing the VZ does better then the BF is it has a digital speedo...

ha my ef has sigital speedo, infat digital everything and its stock

16wantsI6 · 21-07-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Thats your choice and good on you, but why you would buy a product that was inferior is beyond me.. The only thing the VZ does better then the BF is it has a digital speedo...

ha my ef has sigital speedo, infact digital everything and its stock

The Yeti · 22-07-2008, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V3RSAC3

I love the VZ, my missus has one, and they are WONDERFULL cars to drive! although I do agree that they aren't very powerful and the steering is very heavy (compared to my AU), although I just love driving it, I don't know why but i think it's AWSOME ...

:

I'd consider buying a VZ over a BF if i was to update anytime soon, but thats just my personal oppinion

I'm with you weve got a VZ cop pack and it is truck loads better than my BA fairmont ever was and in terms of repairs the only money Ive spent (Aside form PM servicing) is the front brake rotors needed machining but would go under size so they were replaced that in 2 years and 40000k's I'm happy