Pampered FIFO workers come back to earth with a bump

[Express]

Pampered FIFO workers come back to earth with a bump


9 July, 2016

Peter Ker
Resources reporter


The changing nature of FIFO work

See link below for video


While fly-in fly-out workers used to enjoy generous benefits, high wages and excellent living conditions, after the slowdown in mineral trade the industry is rapidly shrinking. Nothing tells that story better than Australia's rural airports.

When you fly more than 2000 kilometres to work each week, you tend to rack up an enormous number of frequent flyer points.

For BHP mine worker Nathan, who did not want his real name published, almost 18 years of fly-in fly-out (FIFO) work has left him with a "gold status" frequent flyer membership; a status usually reserved for powerful, city-hopping executives.

Gold status frequent flyers have the right to skip airport queues, to travel with extra luggage and to sample the delights of Qantas Club lounges.



Off to work: FIFO workers head for a plane at Moranbah airport. Photo: Glenn Hunt


But Nathan may not be living the high life for long.

Since July 1, he no longer gets to keep the hundreds of thousands of frequent flyer points he earns each year.

Desperate to return its loss-making Queensland coking coal division to profitability, BHP and its partner Mitsubishi are seeking to cut costs, and frequent flyer points are the latest staff perk to be axed.



FIFO work requires long stints away from family and friends. Photo: Glenn Hunt


"They will save something like $12 per seat for taking the meals and the Frequent Flyer status points off us," said Nathan, who commutes from Brisbane to Moranbah airport each week to work at BHP's Daunia mine.

While cutting frequent flyer points is not a major crime, it's the latest in a long list of cutbacks that are changing the face of the FIFO lifestyle.

Once showered with incentives and huge pay packets for working on Australia's remote mines and petroleum projects, FIFO workers are facing diminishing conditions as companies struggle to survive the commodity price downturn.

Some of the cuts are merely irritating, but experts fear that other changes could have a serious impact on the health of Australia's most unique workforce.


Strong incentives


Before the turn of the millenium, the acronym FIFO was scarcely part of the lexicon. Most Australian mines had residential workforces in those days, where miners would typically work a five-day week.

As the commodity boom started to ramp up around 2003, the mines started to operate seven days per week, 24 hours a day, and shifts started to stretch out toward 12 hours a day.

Needing larger workforces, the resources industry sucked people out of the cities and put them to work.

With record profits rolling in, the companies could justify flying their new workforce between the city and the mines, and had to offer strong incentives to lure people into a new profession.

At the peak of the resources boom in 2011, experts estimate that more than 100,000 people were working in fly-in fly-out jobs across Australia, but that remains a guess, as the Australian Bureau of Statistics does not keep precise measurements of the industry.

The stories of lucrative pay packets and largess became legendary in the cities, where fixed wage workers were left behind by rampant price inflation.

Some skilled workers, like oil and gas drilling specialist Emerson Doyle, were paid to stay home and do nothing for eight months, so their employers had their skills ready to deploy as soon as they were needed.



Former FIFO worker turned handyman Emerson Doyle prepares to set off to a job from his North Perth home. Photo: Tony Ashby


"I questioned my employers at the time, I said 'are you sure you just want me to sit here and wait?' They said 'yep, you are employed to be at our beck and call'," he told Fairfax Media.

The new generation of FIFO camps resembled oases in the desert, with grassed ovals, swimming pools, tennis courts and often Foxtel in every room.

At Woodside's Pluto LNG project, which was built near the peak of the boom, construction workers could order virtually anything they wanted for dinner, with one source recalling how he and his workmates ate crayfish and barramundi most night for months as reward for their hard work in humid, oppressive conditions.

But those days are gone.

With fewer resources projects being developed, the balance of power has swung back to the employers.

Low commodity prices have forced some mines to close, leading to tens of thousands of workers losing their jobs.

Doyle was made redundant from a drilling job last year, and has been forced to set up his own handyman business "House Proud Maintenance" after being overlooked for several job applications.

"It was clear no one was going to offer me a job so I decided to sort something out for myself," he said.

Doyle didn't blow his wages when times were good, but he has still found the downturn financially challenging.

"I've got a major mortgage and two investment properties, and one of them I have currently got on the market for sale and that is just to supplement what I am doing now for work which isn't really paying the mortgage," he said.

Some reports have linked the decline of FIFO jobs in Queensland with helping Pauline Hanson be elected last week.

Nathan reports that the quality of food at Daunia has "dropped off" in recent times.

"Everyone has gone from a stage when they were throwing money at everything to a stage when you have to tighten the belt ... the first port of call is to cutback the employee benefits," he said.

Severe cutbacks mean many FIFO camps are operating with fewer cleaners, leaving FIFO workers to make their own beds; literally and metaphorically.

Amid the harsher climate, FIFO workers are increasingly being asked to pay for some of the services they receive in the camps.

Resources companies are paying camp operators much less to do the same job, and profits for camp operators like Sodexo and Civeo have tumbled.

A new source of revenue had to be found, and so FIFO workers are increasingly being offered "user pays" options, where they can pay for "luxuries" at the camp like larger beds, massages or haircuts.

"It is definitely a growth area," said John Sheridan, the executive director of camp operator ESS Support, which runs camps for BHP's iron ore division and Chevron's Wheatstone LNG project.

"We get feedback from (the workers) on the things they'd like to see and then we enhance our user-pay offering which really targets the types of things your typical FIFO user wants to see on site and would be prepared to pay for," he said.

"Barista coffee is an one that has popped up ... having access to massage type services, that has also come up."

ESS has started offering FIFO workers the ingredients to "make your own pizzas", in a bid to feed camp residents with fewer cooks.

Sheridan concedes that most camp operators have reduced the number of cleaners and cooks on site, but he says FIFO workers are still getting "a fantastic experience".

"Where you might be doing several cleans per week, you might reduce that to one or two cleans per week, so you are still doing the cleaning to an excellent standard, it is just that you are not cleaning as often," he said.

One senior mining industry executive, speaking on condition of anonymity, said FIFO camps had started to resemble the Shangri-La during the boom times, and a tightening of belts had been long overdue.


Rostered off




Dr Anne Sibbel, a community psychologist who did her PHD on FIFO's, is not particularly concerned about the disappearance of crayfish from camp menus, but like many FIFO researchers she is worried about rosters.

"My concerns at the moment are with companies having tighter conditions. I just hope the conditions for FIFO workers aren't also contracting," Dr Sibbel said.

Two trends are emerging with regard to FIFO rosters; the fading of the boom means fewer construction workers are living the FIFO life, and the construction workers were typically the ones working more than four weeks at a time without a break.

But the other side of the story lies in the tougher economic climate, which has forced some companies to make rosters longer and harder for staff in a bid to save money.

The highest profile example came from Fortescue Metals Group, which in 2015 told workers it could no longer afford to employ them on a roster that gave them six days off after every eight days of consecutive work. Fortescue staff now work 12 hour shifts for 14 days in a row before getting seven days of respite at home.

Some Rio Tinto workers in WA work the same roster.

The change means Fortescue needs to buy eight fewer return flights per worker per year, but some academics have argued that the savings may eventually be diminished by higher sick rates and a higher turnover of staff.

FIFO work requires long stints away from family and friends and attracts a predominantly male workforce, and those factors make it a high-risk occupation for mental health.

In a report for Lifeline, Edith Cowan University's Sellenger Centre found that FIFO workers were reporting a higher level of "psychological distress" than the general population, and the distress was strongest in those working the most compressed rosters.

"Workers employed to work more compressed rotations reported lower levels of getting along with general colleagues and general home communities," the report noted.

"Single respondents employed to work more highly compressed roster rotations reported a greater likelihood of accessing telephone crisis lines."

Most researchers believe rosters that demand three weeks of consecutive work or longer push workers to the threshold where their mental health starts to deteriorate. However that risk can be reduced if they are working an "even time" roster, where they have equal amounts of time at work and on respite.

Among the 30 recommendations handed down by a parliamentary inquiry into FIFO in WA, was a suggestion that the mining industry adopt the sorts of rosters that foster good mental health.

The inquiry specifically recommended the adoption of even-time rosters, but in a reprieve for Fortescue, the inquiry also endorsed the two weeks on, seven days off roster as well.

"The key understanding we gained from the inquiry's research was that the typical FIFO resource worker comes from the highest risk demographic for mental illness and suicide," said inquiry chairman Graham Jacobs, in a foreword he penned for the inquiry.

"FIFO takes such an individual regularly away from home, puts him in isolation from his family and other social supports, subjects him to fatigue and then controls his life within the camp environment.

"Understandably, this can have a significant impact on his emotional health and well-being."



Thanks to the mining downturn, life for FIFO workers is a bit more Spartan. Some even have to make their own beds. Photo: Glenn Hunt


Luke Baker spent more than a decade working FIFO rosters and is now a campaigner for men's health through his website "FIFO man" and his app "YFronts".

He is sceptical that cash-strapped resources companies will listen to the inquiry's recommendations and revert to even time rosters.

"I'm pretty sure nothing at all from that inquiry has been implemented so far and it probably doesn't look like it is going to in this climate," he said.

Baker agrees that three weeks of consecutive work is about the healthy threshold for most workers.

"Three weeks away from home was too long for me with the family ... the third week is when everyone is heads down, kicking stones and being angry at the world.

"It would be nice if we could get it through the heads of the bean-counters that three extra shifts a year is worth a lot less than the loss of production you get from guys being longer than two weeks on the job."

A Fortescue spokesman said a comprehensive support system was available to Fortescue workers and their families, including a chaplaincy program, but the company has no plans to change its rosters.


Local angle




The FIFO industry has been hotly debated in Queensland too, but for different reasons.

In keeping with its union base, the Queensland Labor government is pushing back against the strong growth in FIFO over the past decade, in favour of more miners living in nearby towns.

The campaign was inspired by BHP's decision to fill 100 per cent of jobs at its two newest coking coal mines, Daunia and Caval Ridge, with FIFO workers; a move that excluded candidates who lived in nearby Moranbah.

Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk has vowed to legislate against such tactics.

BHP argues the 100 per cent FIFO strategy was a product of its time; commodity prices were strong, a housing shortage existed in Moranbah and the unemployment rate in the region was close to zero.

It was also a time when big miners were being challenged to share the "benefits of the boom" beyond the mining towns, and BHP duly sought to find the new workforce in Brisbane and Cairns.

Ragnar Udd, the asset president for the coking coal mines owned by BHP and Mitsubishi, says the 100 per cent strategy allowed BHP to employ more female and indigenous workers, and he insists that productivity rates at Daunia and Caval Ridge are also better than at the residential mines.

But in the three years since, coal prices have collapsed, forcing the retrenchment of thousands of mine workers across Queensland.

Many Moranbah residents believe BHP should now drop its 100 per cent FIFO rule and employ locals.

"If people choose to fly-in and go straight to work, so be it. If people do that for a while and then after 12 months decide they want to live locally, they should be able to change their mind," said Isaac Regional Council Mayor Anne Baker

Stories abound in the region of people who have evaded the 100 per cent FIFO rule by flying from Moranbah to Brisbane airport at their own expense, and then catching a flight straight back to begin a "FIFO" shift at either Daunia or Caval Ridge.



Coal miner Russell Robertson outside his home in Moranbah. Photo: Glenn Hunt


"I know a couple of guys that work in the local mine and get a plane, fly to Brisbane then fly back, which is craziness," said Moranbah resident Russell Robertson, who works in one of BHP's longer-standing residential mines.

BHP says once contractors are taken into account, some Moranbah residents do work at Daunia and Caval Ridge. But Udd said BHP would not allow existing FIFO workers at those mines to become residents of Moranbah.

"You are working 12 hour shifts and when you factor onto that meals, communicating with your family and whatever else, there is not a lot more than work," said Udd.

"If all of a sudden you are going to tack on another half hour to (drive home) I think you are actually starting to get beyond the balance of what is reasonable.

"When I look at fatigue and fatigue management ... that is not a risk as an organisation that I think we should be taking."

On a bushland campus 30 minutes drive outside Moranbah lies Buffel Park, the camp that serves FIFO workers from Caval Ridge.

Apartments at Buffel are larger and spread further apart than at most Australian FIFO camps, in a bid to foster a quiet environment and good sleeping habits.

The workers who stay at Buffel typically work a seven days on, seven days off roster, and appear to enjoy some of the best conditions in the industry.

But like Nathan, the residents at Buffel will no longer accumulate frequent flyer points.

Udd is unapologetic about the decision, and says it will help ensure further jobs are not lost in a division that lost $US288 million in the six months to December 31.

"I know that it is an emotive topic but none the less, how many jobs get lost by doing that? The answer is zero," he said.

"Out of respect for our people we will do everything we can to understand ways of saving costs in the organisation that actually return us back to profitability."


'Really struggling'


Back in Perth, Doyle is enjoying the handyman work, but he would get back into the FIFO life if given a chance.

"I loved my work and if I got a phone call saying be at the airport for a midnight flight and go wherever, I would be there. I want to be back in it," he said.

A swathe of inquiries into the industry across Australia have served up a plethora of suggestions for reform, but so far, legislative action has been limited.

Luke Baker says Australians have traditionally shown little sympathy for the lot of FIFO workers, and the broader community needs to realise that times and fortunes have changed.

"There always was a stigma in the general community about how good we have it, how much money everybody earns and how easy it must be, and it never was the case," he said.

"Now the boom is over and a lot of people are really struggling."

http://www.smh.com.au/business/minin...22-gp164q.html

[pottery beige]

18 years fifo and only rocking gold??

[DoreSlamR]

18 years doing FIFO is more than enough time to set yourself up for the rest of your life.

I was working in Hedland during the middle of the boom, old crappy houses in the bad areas of south Hedland were being sold for $800,000!

Madness.

Now living in Karratha, it's actually affordable, and comparable to Perth. And despite just getting a 20% pay cut, I'm earning what is pretty good money for essentially being a labourer.

Close to 50% more than what I'd earn doing the same job in Perth...with the same cost of living. Go figure.

[barrys123]

My son was FIFO for BHP but then took a position with Rio living in Wickham. made redundant a few weeks ago but instead of moving back to Perth got a rental in Karratha cheaper than he would have in Perth, both himself and his wife got jobs in Karratha and now are better off then working for Rio. But would go back to FIFO and live in Perth any day.

[FPV GTHO]

I have a friend that worked at Dalby in Qld and Gove in NT as well as my older brother who did West Wyalong here in NSW. I think the best perks they ever talked about was a free gym and they always had to do 3-4 weeks straight work with maybe 1 day off in the middle to get their 6-7 days off.

[smoo]

What is it with these monthly articles trying to drum up sympathy for these apparent hard done by FIFO workers.

Anyone who struggles after doing FIFO can't see past their nose and has over committed. Any struggling has been self inflicted... Nothing lasts forever, especially the new car smell of the financed 200 series or Prado, or the quartly ten day family holiday to Bali, or the lack of maintenance on a low operating hour/brand new boat, jetski or mx bike.

I've been doing it for four years. Two years ago we would have to sweet talk fitter applicants into jobs. Now, two days after listing a job online there's 80 CVs in the inbox. Not good but a sign of the times. Anyone having a cry about cut backs in perks should bugger off because there's a lot of other people who'll do it for less.

[2011G6E]

For BHP mine worker Nathan, who did not want his real name published, almost 18 years of fly-in fly-out (FIFO) work has left him with a "gold status" frequent flyer membership; a status usually reserved for powerful, city-hopping executives.

Oh heaven for-fend!!! The "powerful, city-hopping executives" might have to rub shoulders in the QANTAS lounge with ordinary people who actually work hard for a living...oh the horror for them!!!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Oh heaven for-fend!!! The "powerful, city-hopping executives" might have to rub shoulders in the QANTAS lounge with ordinary people who actually work hard for a living...oh the horror for them!!!

you been fifo??

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

you been fifo??

No, but I do know people...ordinary workers who save hard and travel a lot...who have built up points and managed to get into the more premium lounge areas and unless you're "dressed for the occasion" you can get looked at by some people in there as working class scum...

[cs123]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Oh heaven for-fend!!! The "powerful, city-hopping executives" might have to rub shoulders in the QANTAS lounge with ordinary people who actually work hard for a living...oh the horror for them!!!

Let's not get too excited. As Mitch said he's only Gold status, so he's hanging out in the pleb lounge. Qantas have business, first and Chairman lounges.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Oh heaven for-fend!!! The "powerful, city-hopping executives" might have to rub shoulders in the QANTAS lounge with ordinary people who actually work hard for a living...oh the horror for them!!!

Um. I don't know any "executives" who are only on Gold Status so little chance of that happening.

[barrys123]

Originally Posted by smoo

What is it with these monthly articles trying to drum up sympathy for these apparent hard done by FIFO workers.

Anyone who struggles after doing FIFO can't see past their nose and has over committed. Any struggling has been self inflicted... Nothing lasts forever, especially the new car smell of the financed 200 series or Prado, or the quartly ten day family holiday to Bali, or the lack of maintenance on a low operating hour/brand new boat, jetski or mx bike.

I've been doing it for four years. Two years ago we would have to sweet talk fitter applicants into jobs. Now, two days after listing a job online there's 80 CVs in the inbox. Not good but a sign of the times. Anyone having a cry about cut backs in perks should bugger off because there's a lot of other people who'll do it for less.

Yeah rip 'em off while you can but their turn will return and you won't be able to get your cheap labour and with a bit of luck you'll struggle.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by barrys123

Yeah rip 'em off while you can but their turn will return and you won't be able to get your cheap labour and with a bit of luck you'll struggle.

Nice thoughts, but I won't be struggling. I've managed to buy a property every year I've been there and will now ramp that up to one every four months. Unlike a lot of FIFO workers I've been around who blow their $2500-3500/week net pay on ****, whores, cars and travel. And the end result is constant tear jerking stories similar to the above because a lot of people are hopeless with money, can't plan for the future and never heard the concept of self responsibility.

The company I'm with hasn't reduced pay or allowances since the downturn. If it did, and employees complain (you know, instead of being grateful of having a six figure income with up to 16 weeks of the year off while many others are been laid off), no one is twisting anyone's arm to stay. Having 80 CVs to sift thru means quality over quantity, no revolving door of ******* off a so called qualified mechanic or sparky before the trial period is up because his resume could talk the talk but his work ethics and knowledge couldn't match when he was out on the floor.

[mcflux]

One important part of that article is missing for those who don't click the link (because it doesn't appear to be copy-paste friendly): the interactive graph showing approx 40,000 jobs have gone in 2 years.

Forty. Thousand.

Regardless of the conditions or change in conditions, that's a huge number of job losses.

And given the fact that FIFO workers are typically paid fairly well, that's 40,000 less families injecting money back into the Aussie economy in the forms of spending and taxation.

That's 40,000 more people either looking for work in other areas & other industries across the country, taking up courses to reskill, or joining the dole queue due to difficulty in finding employment elsewhere.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

That's 40,000 more people either looking for work in other areas & other industries across the country, taking up courses to reskill, or joining the dole queue due to difficulty in finding employment elsewhere.

Of course if you looked at the other way, it's 40,000 people who gave up those jobs in the first place to work in mining.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Of course if you looked at the other way, it's 40,000 people who gave up those jobs in the first place to work in mining.

A lot of engineers I went to uni with 15yrs ago tailored their education to get in to mining, so they never gave up on any existing jobs; they shaped their lives around the then-boom.

If there was never a boom there would have been a consistent pressure on all the east-coast non-mining jobs over the past 15 years, which would have been absorbed over time, rather than a sudden crunch over the past 2.

My previous non-mining east-coast job got *very* difficult due to greatly increased competition of ex-FIFO workers finding alternative work back over here, coupled with the mining-related projects that formed a significant minority of my previous employer's portfolio all drying up, thus creating internal pressure as well.

[geckoGT]

Poor miners, doing a 12 hour shift and then having to drive half an hour home. Paramedics work 12 hour shifts with 2 hours overtime often occurring at the end and then many drive more than an hour home. By the time you get home it is a 16 hour day, 9 hours later you have to go back and do it all again which considering travel means you have 8 hours to eat, sleep and see the family between shifts. Paramedics do all that for about half the money many miners are on.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Poor miners, doing a 12 hour shift and then having to drive half an hour home. Paramedics work 12 hour shifts with 2 hours overtime often occurring at the end and then many drive more than an hour home. By the time you get home it is a 16 hour day, 9 hours later you have to go back and do it all again which considering travel means you have 8 hours to eat, sleep and see the family between shifts. Paramedics do all that for about half the money many miners are on.

Yea I'm sure you do it tough & so does many others in the work force, your industry is not the only one.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by trublu

Yea I'm sure you do it tough & so does many others in the work force, your industry is not the only one.

That is my point, so many other jobs in Australia do the same conditions that FIFO miners do but don't get the pay or benefits. Now the boom is over and companies are having to tighten the belts to keep production viable in Australia the miners are too used to a good life and feel entitled to have all those benefits continue.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

That is my point, so many other jobs in Australia do the same conditions that FIFO miners do but don't get the pay or benefits. Now the boom is over and companies are having to tighten the belts to keep production viable in Australia the miners are too used to a good life and feel entitled to have all those benefits continue.

Interesting article but I see no where where workers are stating they are losing benifits, if any discussion is mainly about how their shifts operate effecting workers health, something you mentioned in your 1st post about yourself.

[Brodes]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

That is my point, so many other jobs in Australia do the same conditions that FIFO miners do but don't get the pay or benefits. Now the boom is over and companies are having to tighten the belts to keep production viable in Australia the miners are too used to a good life and feel entitled to have all those benefits continue.

Being away from your family & friends for 3/4 of the year is the good life? Being employed in an industry which has a high chance to result in depression, anxiety and relationship separation is the good life? I was working FIFO for 10 years and can say working in those conditions plays a huge toll on home life, experienced by myself and witnessing many of my colleagues families crumble because of it. FIFO workers deserve every benefit they are offered by their employers. Also when the profits began to fall due to commodity prices falling, most of the work force where I was were happy to have pay & benefits cut to keep their jobs.

Please research before making such statements.

[FTE]

I've been fifo since 1998. Had frequent flyer since 2012.
I'm glad I still have a good job. I know no one on my crew gives a **** that our points have gone. It was a "nice to have"

[CAT600]

Do not forget that implicit in working FIFO is the fact that you are buying anywhere from 50% to 80% of a workers life off them.... yes that's right they are selling you there entire 24 hour period for the time they are at work for the day

So you may be a paramedic away from home 16 hours per day (and many of us have worked these hours and more plus tied to breakdown phones as well) but you still get to see the family all through the week and do not miss out on day by day milestones the same way a 26/9 FIFO does.

Does anyone harp on about Teachers earning 100k per annum working 40-42 weeks a year depending on prep cycle?

Could say the same thing about many professions, some earning 200k per year with 3-4 year qualification periods.

Yes FIFO have a bad rep for wasting money but as mentioned it goes back into the economy in larger volumes, your typical Holden/Ford buying "FIFO bogan" has done WAY more for local industry than most lawyers ever will.

People reckon FIFO guys should do it for less (half money I see people write on other forms of media)... You go do it for half and see if you would bother sticking with it. Nobody talks about the inheirant danger in some of these industries, working underground or in oil and gas/chemical plants... bit different to pushing a pen in an office yet do people begrudge lawyers and accountants for making 200-500k a year?

You do FIFO for the money and conditions and that's IT.

Daniel

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Do not forget that implicit in working FIFO is the fact that you are buying anywhere from 50% to 80% of a workers life off them.... yes that's right they are selling you there entire 24 hour period for the time they are at work for the day

So you may be a paramedic away from home 16 hours per day (and many of us have worked these hours and more plus tied to breakdown phones as well) but you still get to see the family all through the week and do not miss out on day by day milestones the same way a 26/9 FIFO does.

Does anyone harp on about Teachers earning 100k per annum working 40-42 weeks a year depending on prep cycle?

Could say the same thing about many professions, some earning 200k per year with 3-4 year qualification periods.

Yes FIFO have a bad rep for wasting money but as mentioned it goes back into the economy in larger volumes, your typical Holden/Ford buying "FIFO bogan" has done WAY more for local industry than most lawyers ever will.

People reckon FIFO guys should do it for less (half money I see people write on other forms of media)... You go do it for half and see if you would bother sticking with it. Nobody talks about the inheirant danger in some of these industries, working underground or in oil and gas/chemical plants... bit different to pushing a pen in an office yet do people begrudge lawyers and accountants for making 200-500k a year?

You do FIFO for the money and conditions and that's IT.

Daniel

No one values work completed with hands, very few trades are respected, which are the ones highly paid.

Think about your licensed trades, plumbers, builders, mains electricians etc, are the only trades where people seem to value their services, they will gladly hand over the money and put up with tardiness on behalf of them.

I'm qualified as an auto electrician but I don't touch tools anymore, I run the paperwork and business end of my business, my business partner does all the spanner swinging.

People come into our workshops with a preconception that we're trying to rip them off all the time, they baulk at invoices, they question everything from labour rate to parts costs, I've had multiple people look at our $95/hour labour rate and complain that we're too highly paid for what we do.

They don't take into account that the going rate that an employee would see on the tools is anywhere from $19.64/hour to maybe $25/hour around Melbourne working in small family owned automotive workshops.

Its the same thing with miners, they see the wages these guys pull and see the toys they own, but they don't take into account the environment they work in exposing them to dangerous situations and environments on a day to day basis, the amount of hours they pull on shifts, when a piece of equipment craps out and the rush to get it working again etc.

They don't know what its like to not see their families and friends for long periods of time, being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of other dudes doing the same thing.

Everyone is happy to pay $1000 for a new iPhone that cost Apple China $2 to make, who sells it to Apple Ireland for $3, who then sells it to Apple Australia for $999 who sells it to you for $1000 and pays tax in Australia on the $1 profit they technically made.

But if an automotive business wants to make a small percentage on parts or they see a miner with a boat and a new car its the end of the world.

Its the same thing when you see big business fold, the media gets involved, there is footage of the guys in high visibility clothing with their heads down, in tears, walking out of the factory for the last time, the interview with the old dude with tears in his eyes saying he has worked there for 30 years and he doesn't know anything else.

Then the crap fight ensues with fingers pointed at the guys in high visibility clothing, saying they're lazy, they were greedy how dare they take so much money from their employer when the board and the CEO have been continually making crap business decisions, which sinks the company, but they walk out in their fancy suit, collect their golden handshake for ruining the company and they walk off into the sunset with their payout while the high vis crew line up at Centrelink and get put into Certificate II in hospitality and how to write resume courses hosted by some woman in her mid 20s employed by one of these 'job agencies' who are collecting money from the government for making these guys come into the office, sign paperwork and leaving again to tell them that the government hasn't allocated any resources to them to help them look to a job until they move onto a different 'stream'.

tldr:

Don't believe anything the media floats up in the toilet bowl of life, its just crap, the only person who tells you the truth is the person you walk by in the street, first hand information is king.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

They don't know what its like to not see their families and friends for long periods of time, being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of other dudes doing the same thing..

A bit like the Navy then, but the FIFO paid four times as much, doing less hours, in better conditions etc. etc. etc. Cry me a river..... The precious hard done by little petals....

[barrys123]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

No one values work completed with hands, very few trades are respected, which are the ones highly paid.

Think about your licensed trades, plumbers, builders, mains electricians etc, are the only trades where people seem to value their services, they will gladly hand over the money and put up with tardiness on behalf of them.

I'm qualified as an auto electrician but I don't touch tools anymore, I run the paperwork and business end of my business, my business partner does all the spanner swinging.

People come into our workshops with a preconception that we're trying to rip them off all the time, they baulk at invoices, they question everything from labour rate to parts costs, I've had multiple people look at our $95/hour labour rate and complain that we're too highly paid for what we do.

They don't take into account that the going rate that an employee would see on the tools is anywhere from $19.64/hour to maybe $25/hour around Melbourne working in small family owned automotive workshops.

Its the same thing with miners, they see the wages these guys pull and see the toys they own, but they don't take into account the environment they work in exposing them to dangerous situations and environments on a day to day basis, the amount of hours they pull on shifts, when a piece of equipment craps out and the rush to get it working again etc.

They don't know what its like to not see their families and friends for long periods of time, being stuck out in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of other dudes doing the same thing.

Everyone is happy to pay $1000 for a new iPhone that cost Apple China $2 to make, who sells it to Apple Ireland for $3, who then sells it to Apple Australia for $999 who sells it to you for $1000 and pays tax in Australia on the $1 profit they technically made.

But if an automotive business wants to make a small percentage on parts or they see a miner with a boat and a new car its the end of the world.

Its the same thing when you see big business fold, the media gets involved, there is footage of the guys in high visibility clothing with their heads down, in tears, walking out of the factory for the last time, the interview with the old dude with tears in his eyes saying he has worked there for 30 years and he doesn't know anything else.

Then the crap fight ensues with fingers pointed at the guys in high visibility clothing, saying they're lazy, they were greedy how dare they take so much money from their employer when the board and the CEO have been continually making crap business decisions, which sinks the company, but they walk out in their fancy suit, collect their golden handshake for ruining the company and they walk off into the sunset with their payout while the high vis crew line up at Centrelink and get put into Certificate II in hospitality and how to write resume courses hosted by some woman in her mid 20s employed by one of these 'job agencies' who are collecting money from the government for making these guys come into the office, sign paperwork and leaving again to tell them that the government hasn't allocated any resources to them to help them look to a job until they move onto a different 'stream'.

tldr:

Don't believe anything the media floats up in the toilet bowl of life, its just crap, the only person who tells you the truth is the person you walk by in the street, first hand information is king.

I wouldn't kick at paying $95 per hour I think that is a fair rate with all of their other cost besides wages, I know a couple of home mechanics who charge $60 per hour, but they have no out of pocket expenses.
My daughter-in-law had one of those flexi stainless hoses burst under her sink and rang "The Tap Doctor" who when he came said we don't replace hoses we only have the whole unit, tap splitter and both hot and cold hoses, charged her $390, I checked the same brand of tap at Bunnings $47 and $38 for the two hoses, he fitted it in less then half an hour.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Do not forget that implicit in working FIFO is the fact that you are buying anywhere from 50% to 80% of a workers life off them.... yes that's right they are selling you there entire 24 hour period for the time they are at work for the day

So you may be a paramedic away from home 16 hours per day (and many of us have worked these hours and more plus tied to breakdown phones as well) but you still get to see the family all through the week and do not miss out on day by day milestones the same way a 26/9 FIFO does.

Does anyone harp on about Teachers earning 100k per annum working 40-42 weeks a year depending on prep cycle?

Could say the same thing about many professions, some earning 200k per year with 3-4 year qualification periods.

Yes FIFO have a bad rep for wasting money but as mentioned it goes back into the economy in larger volumes, your typical Holden/Ford buying "FIFO bogan" has done WAY more for local industry than most lawyers ever will.

People reckon FIFO guys should do it for less (half money I see people write on other forms of media)... You go do it for half and see if you would bother sticking with it. Nobody talks about the inheirant danger in some of these industries, working underground or in oil and gas/chemical plants... bit different to pushing a pen in an office yet do people begrudge lawyers and accountants for making 200-500k a year?

You do FIFO for the money and conditions and that's IT.

Daniel

Actually working a 24 hour roster with 2.5 weekends off out of 6 we do miss a lot of family time and family milestones. We might be int he same city but even time at home is not really time at home. Sure they are away 50-80% of the year (50% in the early days of FIFO) but at least when they are home they are 100% at home, solid days off. Look at my former career I spent up to 10 months of the year away working in conditions that would make a miner weep and did it for less than half of the money.

I am not going to talk about this any more except to say the simple fact is miners had it really good for a long time riding the fruits of the boom. They knew all along it was a boom and it will end, the pot of gold will run dry. If they did not put all that wealth to good use and plan for the future, I feel for them but it is their own fault. I do not see a reason why they should have pay and conditions that their industry can not support. At the end of the day those pay and conditions are paid for by us the consumers or the industry closes down due to production costs in Australia being non viable, just like the motor industry in Australia.

By the way my brother-in-law is FIFO in the mining industry working a rather unattractive rotation but at least he admits the boom is over and is lucky to still have a job just waiting for the next boom.

[barrys123]

Good on the FIFO's they carried this country for quite a few years, if it wasn't for their spending WA businesses would have been in the ****** a lot earlier than they are now.

[Itsme]

Cannot see the fuss with these people doing FIFO, companies were willing to pay them & still made good profits, do people here begrudge others for making good money & having good work conditions!

[CAT600]

A 26/9 guy on $160k a year is not overpaid. His 1st day off is spent at and airport so he is working 27 days and having 8 off.

Trev you mentioned the Navy, you think Navy guys are paid 4 times less than the average FIFO guy?... no chance

Navy Submariners are on 120k a year after 9 years and can claim some extras that FIFO are no longer able to... tell me again how FIFO gets paid 4 times more and I bet the 26/9 guys are working more hours if you average it out over 24 months.

As soon as you mention the time away from family as being a reason for financial compensation people say "well dont do it then"... well thats the whole idea of getting a high paying job relative to your trade, getting ahead for a sacrifice.

If you do squander it recklessly you only have yourself to blame (and if you do only blame yourself then nobody is entitled to stick it to you either)

People who whinge about it should give it a try and see if they think its as good as it sounds, ive done 80hr/week on a wage, 90-100hr weeks on a salary and a 2/2 roster over the last 20 years and while the 2/2 is the best in my eyes, its still one of the toughest to cope with when learning to deal with the absence of friends and family at the weekends/special occasions and you ask yourself (why am I doing this again) but once your pay goes in and you get home for your R&R you know you earned it.

If you havent worked both lifestyles you are probably not fit to comment............

Daniel