Illegal to raise/lower more than 5cm?

[King Nothing]

I heard on the radio this morning, that NSW is planning to make it illegal to raise or lower a car by more than 5cm, although I can't find a link anywhere. Does anyone have any details?

[hame]

The 4x4 crowd will really love that.

[ch33z1l]

Would love to know what meaningful reason they have for introducing this. There are already guidelines administered by NSW police on legal ride height.

[T3man]

Originally Posted by ch33z1l

Would love to know what meaningful reason they have for introducing this. There are already guidelines administered by NSW police on legal ride height.

That's satire right? I know this because you really couldn't say that in all seriousness.

The only law the police effectively administer is speeding. And when I say effectively I mean purely from a revenue viewpoint - they don't actually stop anyone from doing it.

Raising or lowering a vehicle more than 5cm can cause serious changes in the handling of the vehicle unless it is done properly. 90% of the time it isn't and the safety of the vehicle and occupants is put at great risk.

IMO there should be a 5cm guideline and with the additional proviso that if an owner wants to modify outside the guideline then an engineer's report and full vehicle safety inspection (blue slip in NSW) be carried out before it is allowed back on the road.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by T3man

That's satire right? I know this because you really couldn't say that in all seriousness.

The only law the police effectively administer is speeding. And when I say effectively I mean purely from a revenue viewpoint - they don't actually stop anyone from doing it.

Raising or lowering a vehicle more than 5cm can cause serious changes in the handling of the vehicle unless it is done properly. 90% of the time it isn't and the safety of the vehicle and occupants is put at great risk.

IMO there should be a 5cm guideline and with the additional proviso that if an owner wants to modify outside the guideline then an engineer's report and full vehicle safety inspection (blue slip in NSW) be carried out before it is allowed back on the road.

I agree, if they want to go down that path make it an engineers requirement (like fitting larger/wider wheels on some cars).

It's just that it's reported as being done under the context of "cracking down on hoons", rather than improving vehicle safety.

[King Nothing]

Found it in today's telegraph

Cost of Cool Cars

Car hoons risk losing registration if they raise or lower vehicles by more than 5cm without approval. The changes from August 1 mean all modifications will now require engineering approval.
"Hoons may think their car looks cool but as far as I'm concerned anything more than a 5cm change in a car's suspension is dangerous and doesn't belong on our roads," Roads Minister Michael Daley said.

EDIT: How much does a set of SL King springs on a BA falcon lower it? I heard 2", so 50mm, so I'd be fine I hope.

[ch33z1l]

Originally Posted by T3man

That's satire right? I know this because you really couldn't say that in all seriousness.

Was reading the article and all car owners wishing to lower their vehicles have to submit for approval by the RTA, no matter what the adjustment is

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by ch33z1l

Was reading the article and all car owners wishing to lower their vehicles have to submit for approval by the RTA, no matter what the adjustment is

lol i can see it now.


-govt will slap a fee on it.
-rta will be flooded with requests for approval, which will mean many months wait
-car gets pulled over and person waves approval req in officers face stating he is booked in for inspection 7 months from now.
-car gets denied 7 months down the track
-puts old springs back in submits another approval
-puts lowered springs back in awaiting approval
-start again

lol

[King Nothing]

I've just been on the phone to the RTA. Apparently this is the go

- There has been no official word (suprise suprise)
- The bloke I spoke to said that the paper has got it wrong
- At the moment they are looking at limiting how much a car can be raised, not lowered.
- Currently the existing 100mm ground clearance / 1/3 suspension travel is still in place
- Any changes would most likely affect any new installations i.e. anyone with changes done befoe August 1st would be ok

This is just what the bloke has told me.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by ch33z1l

Would love to know what meaningful reason they have for introducing this. There are already guidelines administered by NSW police on legal ride height.

Apparently it's a crackdown on "hoons". Although how ride height affects the car's ability to speed, I don't know (aside from being able to corner better if set up properly). I can't see how raising your car makes you a hoon.

[ltd]

As they are now already selling police stations and are soon to be selling school playgrounds, it really is amazing that they haven't yet figured out why their revenues are down even though they announce stupid crap like this.

[Wally]

I just bought a ute and had the rear lowered 70mm and the front 50mm, aftermarket suspension, etc. Insurer didn't want to cover it, but realising I'm too old to be a hoon they relented. Perhaps the insurers are driving the change?

[Riksta]

How in the hell does raising or lowering a vehicle instantly make the driver a hoon???

What does the ride height of a vehicle have to do with the owner/driver's behaviour???

[rods falcon]

Does this read as any change in ride height will require engineering, and no change greater than +/- 5cm (2 inches) will be allowed?

[King Nothing]

Looks like we're all screwed

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-26103,00.html

NEW laws making it an offence to raise or lower a car's suspension without proper approval is about saving lives, New South Wales Roads Minister Michael Daley says.

From August 1, car owners will be limited to raising or lowering their suspension by no more than five centimetres, and all modifications will need approval from Roads and Traffic Authority engineers.

Currently, a car can be raised or lowered by up to five centimetres without approval and by up to 15 centimetres with approval.

Mr Daley says while drivers may think a lowered car looks "cool" it really is dangerous and any adjustment of more than five centimetres doesn't belong on the road.

"I don't want to see young hoons putting their lives or the lives of others at risk, just because they think their car looks better 15 centimetres closer to the ground," Mr Daley said.

"Raising or lowering a vehicle's height can put the driver, passengers and other road users at risk.

"It can affect handling, braking and safety features such as electronic stability control."

Any vehicle that is raised or lowered after August 1 will have to carry a certificate stating that the modifications confirm to safety standard requirements.

[GasoLane]

I'm curious as to how they'd police this.

IE: if you go to Bunnings for a couple of bags of cement they'll have to deliver them.

Or... the family will have to fly to the holiday destination whilst dad drives there with the luggage.

Both cases will lower the car

[ltd_on20s]

and the cycle of government idiocy continues. don't we have federal adr laws that override anything the state does?

[Fairlane]

What a load of bollocks, I just knocked 35mm of my BA on monday, and well it still looks like a 4wd. I could go 70mm before it made 2/3rds of sod all difference. In fact I think the lowering made the car safer, the handling no longer scares the bejezus out of me.

What happened to the old coke can at the lowest point rule, sounds like the goody goodys have already gotten to Daley.

[AndrewR_AUII]

How can one prove that the changes were made before August 1....

[vfast]

Was shocked to read this just now: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html

Where will it all end. I mean, I do agree there are some people doing stupid things with lowering and airbag suspension (mini trucks, vans, etc).

But 5cm - come on.....

How will this be policed? I think it's going to be a bit like window tint and TV licenses. Well I hope...

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by vfast

Was shocked to read this just now: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html

Where will it all end. I mean, I do agree there are some people doing stupid things with lowering and airbag suspension (mini trucks, vans, etc).

But 5cm - come on.....

How will this be policed? I think it's going to be a bit like window tint and TV licenses. Well I hope...

What garbage.

[vfast]

Could find nothing on RTA website about this. Not that it's a very easy website in the first place.

Also Any vehicle that is raised or lowered after August 1 will have to carry a certificate stating that the modifications confirm to safety standard requirements. Where is this "safety standard" info? Who can issue a certificate?

Would be great to hear from someone in the industry (pedders, etc) about what they know....

[needaXYGT]

becoming a nanny country!

[tex]

Originally Posted by needaXYGT

becoming a nanny country!

It already is.

Started a long time ago, the rot well and truely set in

[b2tf]

I've just shot an email off to Michael Daley, the goose who has come up with this bright idea. I'd encourage everybody on here who lives in NSW to do the same and let him know what your feelings on it are. His email is in my signature and his details can also be found here:

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro...25705700192D10

These idiots need to know that there are decent law abiding people in this state who drive cars and that just because we give a crap about our cars, we are not HOONS.

To give you an idea, here is the email I sent:

Mr Daley,

rarely do I contact politicians however I feel that you need to be contacted by as many people like myself as possible before the end of July.

I draw your attention to the proposed anti lowering laws set to be introduced in NSW from August 1 2009. This 'law' is a farce and it appears to be nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction on your behalf to a problem that does not exist, you are merely trying to make a scapegoat out of anybody who modifies a car which is unjust.

Have you thought of the following points:-

1) What proof,studies or figures are there that show that a car with lowered or modified suspension is any more dangerous, or have claimed more lives in motor vehicle accidents on NSW roads? Have you actually researched this?

2) Have you considered that in MOST cases, those who modify their suspension are seeking to actually IMPROVE the handling, compliance and ride quality of their vehicle?

3) Have you considered the impact on aftermarket automotive suppliers who are already struggling in a difficult economic climate?

4) Have you consulted with insurance companies on this issue?

5) How are you going to enforce this law for vehicles that have been previously modified 6,12, 18 or 14 months ago? Do the owners of these vehicles now need to prove that their car is compliant even though they have passed registration previous to these laws coming in?

6) How do you intend on differentiating on cars that come from the manufacturer with modified suspension? Does this mean people will no longer be able to buy a 'sports' model vehicle without fear of the RTA picking out some obscure feature of the vehicle and claim it needs 'engineering'?

7) Have you thought about the time, money and effort that aftermarket suspension companies spend on researching their products to make them compliant and safe?

If you can give a logical, honest and well-backed answer to all of these points, then just maybe these laws will be worthwhile. However, I will bet the deed of ownership to my vehicle that you cannot. I am not a 'hoon' and I take EXTREME offence to being labelled one, just because I intend to modify my vehicle using quality aftermarket components that are designed to IMPROVE and ENHANCE the ride quality, compliance and handling of the vehicle - ALL of which are legal products freely available in this state. Do not punish law abiding car enthusiasts who have the bad luck to live in New South Wales by bringing in yet another law that makes no sense and will not make one single shred of difference to the road toll - accidents will happen regardless of whether you wrap everybody in every car in the state in cotton wool, and idiots will always be around - target them, not us.

Should these laws go ahead, I will petition my local member of parliament and I will also raise this issue with every motoring group, car club, insurance company and aftermarket parts supplier in the country - not just New South Wales. The car enthusiasts of this state do NOT deserve to be punished for the actions of a very small percentage of people, who, if we had decent licensing laws in the state, would not be able to drive anyway. Perhaps you should consider solving the problem before it starts - not applying band aid solutions that affect a whole lot more people than your intended targets.

I look forward to your reply however I expect it to be nothing more than a canned reply that you send to everybody - if however, you do have the decency to reply and engage in an active and frank discussion about this issue, I would welcome it.

Regards,



Austin Gregor
Vice President - Riverina Ford Owners Club
Administration Team - Australian Ford Forums - www.fordforums.com.au
Number of Speeding Fines: 0
Number of Traffic Offences: 0
Insurance Rating - 1. NCB: 65%
Amount of taxes paid to this state - at the moment, not enough to warrant the rubbish we put up with from our government.

Tell this bloke what you think because otherwise we won't be allowed to do ANYTHING to our car the way this state is going.

[calais]

b2tf, well said.

The stupidity of this whole thing defies belief.

[FPV+fteT3]

australian design rules or ADR are country wide laws governing car engineering and design any changes after manufacture must meet ADR standard not some tool in a suit's ideas on what is right where does this fool get off deciding this state needs different regulations to the rest of the country. Trust me NSW is not that speshial.

[Nikked]

Mr Daley



This is the first time I have felt the need to contact a MP on any matter, I'm was baffled by your new laws on suspension modifications. I see this as nothing more then a knee-jerk reaction, political stunt and revenue raising scheme targeting law abiding NSW motorist. I fear in an attempt to cash in on the current focus of hoons is putting a blanket over everyone else. This will do nothing to lower the road toll. And Will affect my voting decisions

To put it bluntly, I'm see that little or no thought has gone into this action. You seem to think that lowering a car will affect the cars handling and breaking in a bad way. Quite the opposite, a properly lowered car will be safer and handle better.

Also, the rule it self is open ended. What if a person owns a factory lowered car, then further lowers it 5cm? The car will be lower then the mainstream model, its an indiscretion. how is one to prove that their car was modified before august 1st? Then think of the aftermarket automotive suppliers who will lose out, many a voting worker could be faced with loosing a job.

What about accredited engineers? Not every town has access to one, I need to travel 4 hours to reach one. And they are not cheap, then I need to add on fuel and accommodation. Not to mention the extra cost involved will cause people to be more inclined to perform dodgy work on cars.

And I feel discriminated upon to be labeled a moron because I choose to spend money on a car that both looks good and performs safer and better. I have not been fined nor had an at fault accident in my 5 years of driving. I participate in off-street motor sport events that eject money into the local economy, and I don't have the luxury to own a dedicated race car and facilities to house one.

Car enthusiasts are constantly being hounded because a small percent of people decide to perform acts of idiocy, but these draconian laws are becoming too much. I agree that the small percent of people out their who are performing backyard modifications need to be dealt with, but with a surgical knife, not an axe.

I hope that I will receive a personal response, rather then a standard Inpersonal reply sent out by a secretary.

Regards

Nikk ******

Not that good at letters!

[FORCED F6]

Yeh right, never even heard of a headline until today where someone rolled there car, got killed or whatever from lowering a car and how is this suppose to save lives again???

Another case; About 6-9months ago, they were cracking on cars with foglights/spotlights being turned on in Victoria. My mate was a victim after having been pulled over by the police (actually 2 cop cars, 9 police officers) and was issued with a $130 (something like that) fine. I turned around and laughed and said to the police officers " why the hell do you have your foggies on than mate?". He looks in suprise to me acts dumb like he doesnt know anything and says to me " there my headlights". In response to that I said " Geee, you have no clue of what the difference between a headlight and foglight is do ya, and you have just fined my mate for using headlights than????". Believe it or not, they just hopped in their cars and drove off. What a load of crap....

[WINTER BFT]

permission+certificate=$$$...and once again more money keeps pouring into the government...
these laws a getting beyond a joke now...