Could the Falcon be "shrunk"

[falcon convert]

We all know that all the experts are telling us that the Falcon has until 2016, then it is gone. These same experts are telling us that the main reason is because Australia has fallen out of love with large sedans.

Well I don't want to give up on all those Aussie jobs yet. I'm wondering if, with the Falcon going to the Ecoboost 4, would it be possible for Falcon to live on after 2016 as a shrunken model. No massive and expensive changes, just use the existing platform and shorten the front overhang (which has a lot of redundant space when the I6 is not being used) and shorten the rear overhang (cutting down the boot a bit). Turn a large car into a medium car and see what the punters make of it.
- Is it feasible?
- Would it look any good or would it look ridiculous?
- Would you buy a smaller Falcon if it still had the same interior size and still still handled well?
Maybe I have my head in the sand and am pi*****ing into the wind at the same time.
Over to you boys (and girls) - discuss.

[Ducati888]

Yes. Five years ago, Ford should have renamed the Mondeo "Falcon" and made it here with a new age diesel engine option. People seem to want either people movers (SUV's) or smaller sedans. Lots of fleets are using Subaru Liberties and that seems to be the benchmark size now. Between that, the Ranger and the new Terry, they would have had the bulk of the market covered.

The Commodore fell to the Falcon in the early 80's because it was small, and that handed Falcon the market leadership trophy for years, until Commodore caught up with the VN. Now it should be the other way around. The original Commodore is the right size now and downsizing is what is needed.

[Marquis]

Bring back the cortina.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Marquis

Bring back the cortina.

No..the TELSTAR....

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Marquis

Bring back the cortina.

+1 for Lotus.

Originally Posted by csv8

No..the TELSTAR....

Don't need another Mazda when the Mazda3 is already the top seller.

[MAD]

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

[Vormund]

Best thing would be to base it off the next gen Mustang. Yeah basically a 4 door Mustang.

It can use EB4, V6 and Coyote.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

It's about perception and marketing, which has been mentioned here many times. It's seen as a big car, and an inline 6 is seen as thirsty. We all know thats rubbish, but we are enthusiasts, not the general public. The very same people who see the Falcon as 'thirsty' would be the ones flocking to a Mazda CX7 or 9, or Prado, or one of those butt ugly Mercedes SUV's, all of which get 13 or 14 L/100km, versus the Falcon's 10.

Perception is everything. The buying public are cretins and are easily led.

Originally Posted by csv8

No..the TELSTAR....

This is not as silly as it seems. The Telstar was a rebadged Mazda 626, which is, in 2012, the Mazda 6. Look at what a success that model has been in the last ten years, only dropping in popularity recently because it's been more or less unchanged in that time, like the Honda Accord Euro.

[GK]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

It's about perception and marketing, which has been mentioned here many times. It's seen as a big car, and an inline 6 is seen as thirsty. We all know thats rubbish, but we are enthusiasts, not the general public. The very same people who see the Falcon as 'thirsty' would be the ones flocking to a Mazda CX7 or 9, or Prado, or one of those butt ugly Mercedes SUV's, all of which get 13 or 14 L/100km, versus the Falcon's 10.

Perception is everything. The buying public are cretins and are easily led.

Post of the thread!

And the last line says it all. The only way to lead the public is to smother them with the facts wrapped up in great advertising.

But of course, Ford's advertising budget appears miniscule.

GK

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

Truth in sizing.
Small cars have now grown to almost the same size as a late 1990s mid sized cars
and mid sized cars have now grown to almost the size of large cars.

So when some look at segment sales and say that mid sized cars don't really sell that well,
what we should consider is that Samall cars should be grouped as the new mid size
and both large mid size and large cars should be grouped together.

Doing that makes a lot of sense in understand what's really happening in the market with cars.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

Well it does weigh as much as a medium to large'ish 4WD now in 2020 it could've weighed in around the two ton mark.

Even if they could downsize the Falcon it probably wont happen but without doubt its great idea. It would make a better drivers car for sure. What about BMW, going by weight, 3 series has grown into the 5 series, 5 series grown into 7 series. In that time the original concept ethos has disappeared and is that the reason the original 1 series was put onto the market?

cheers,Maka

[AC]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

As lifted from Wikipedia.

FG Falcon

Length 4,955*mm (195.1*in)
Width 1,868*mm (73.5*in)
Height 1,453*mm (57.2*in)

Current Camry

Length 4,805*mm (189.2*in) & 4,820*mm (189.8*in)
Width 1,820*mm (71.7*in)
Height 1,470*mm (57.9*in)

Mondeo

Length 4,844*mm (190.7*in)
Width 1,886*mm (74.3*in)
Height 1,500*mm (59.1*in)


So is the FG now a mid sized car like the Camry, or is the Camry now a large car.
Mondeo...?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by AC

As lifted from Wikipedia.

FG Falcon

Length 4,955*mm (195.1*in)
Width 1,868*mm (73.5*in)
Height 1,453*mm (57.2*in)

Current Camry

Length 4,805*mm (189.2*in) & 4,820*mm (189.8*in)
Width 1,820*mm (71.7*in)
Height 1,470*mm (57.9*in)

Mondeo

Length 4,844*mm (190.7*in)
Width 1,886*mm (74.3*in)
Height 1,500*mm (59.1*in)


So is the FG now a mid sized car like the Camry, or is the Camry now a large car.
Mondeo...?

I see that and think why bother with the Falcon when the Mondeo is better equipped.

OH NO, WRONG WHEEL DRIVE!

Seriously unless you drive like a moron and do burnouts, no one gives a rats *** if the car drives with its front wheels or rear.

I look at my Falcon and think, there could be a lot more room if it had a flat floor because of no tail shaft and diff.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I see that and think why bother with the Falcon when the Mondeo is better equipped.

OH NO, WRONG WHEEL DRIVE!

Seriously unless you drive like a moron and do burnouts, no one gives a rats *** if the car drives with its front wheels or rear.

The realists among us stopped worrying about that in the 70s but the Govt feels they must look after the 1% of new car buyers who are still buying Aussie RWDs.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I see that and think why bother with the Falcon when the Mondeo is better equipped.

OH NO, WRONG WHEEL DRIVE!

Seriously unless you drive like a moron and do burnouts, no one gives a rats *** if the car drives with its front wheels or rear.

I look at my Falcon and think, there could be a lot more room if it had a flat floor because of no tail shaft and diff.

Thats hilarious. Oooh a flat floor, how much more awesome can you get?

Honestly, if you cant see the value in RWD beyond burnouts, you really have absolutely no clue, and a car enthusiast forum may not be the place for you if all you care about is frivolous gadgets and a flat floor in your whitegoods on wheels.

Having said that, I admit drive configuration isn't important in a mainstream passenger car. But given the choice, its RWD all the way for me - flat floor be damned!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Thats hilarious. Oooh a flat floor, how much more awesome can you get?

Honestly, if you cant see the value in RWD beyond burnouts, you really have absolutely no clue, and a car enthusiast forum may not be the place for you if all you care about is frivolous gadgets and a flat floor in your whitegoods on wheels.

Having said that, I admit drive configuration isn't important in a mainstream passenger car. But given the choice, its RWD all the way for me - flat floor be damned!

Very obvious if you look.

Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes, Mustang, Corvette, FPV, HSV, Comaro, 370Z, FT86, ISF, LFA, Aston Martin, Jaguar all except for a few "bubble car" exceptions are REAR WHEEL DRIVE.

Camry, Corolla, Civic, Integra, Accord, Hyundai, Daewoo, Euro bubble hatches, need I go on...are FRONT WHEEL DRIVE.

If it were only Falcon in Australia then there may be a point but it is world wide across multitudes of races, cultures and societies.

If you have to ask why a driver prefers rear wheel drive then I suspect you will not understand let alone accept the answer.........

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Thats hilarious. Oooh a flat floor, how much more awesome can you get?

Honestly, if you cant see the value in RWD beyond burnouts, you really have absolutely no clue, and a car enthusiast forum may not be the place for you if all you care about is frivolous gadgets and a flat floor in your whitegoods on wheels.

Having said that, I admit drive configuration isn't important in a mainstream passenger car. But given the choice, its RWD all the way for me - flat floor be damned!

RWD Territory has a flat rear floor.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

a car enthusiast forum may not be the place for you if all you care about is frivolous gadgets and a flat floor in your whitegoods on wheels.

Having said that, I admit drive configuration isn't important in a mainstream passenger car. But given the choice, its RWD all the way for me - flat floor be damned!

Guess what buddy, me and my flat floor, white goods gadget crew are the people who are buying the new cars.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I see that and think why bother with the Falcon when the Mondeo is better equipped.

its all a matter of opinion and what you value in your car. i looked at mondeo when looking at my FG and i bought my FG. if i had the choice over, i would make the same one. i don't care if mondeo has some ****y gadgets. falcon wins for me hands down. much better looking interior layout also. obviously that is also a personal opinion.

as for the graphs of exterior dimensions, sure, mondeo is similar to falcon, but have a look at a graph of interior room. i don't like sitting in the passengers lap when driving. (obviously an exaggeration!)

[prydey]

i think all segments have taken on the segment that was above it 20 years ago. large cars aren't selling as they are now quite similar to the old LWB cars.

micro cars are the same size as the old small cars.

interior/exterior dimensions might only be fractionally different, but most of it is about perception. cars are more slab sided, higher noses and tails etc so even if the dimensions aren't a lot different, the perception has changed a lot.

an eb falcon used to be a large family car. when i had mine parked next to my FG, i reckon i could've just about fitted it inside, yet when you compare official dimensions, there is only an inch or 2 in it. the numbers on paper don't really tell an accurate story.

park a current corolla sedan alongside an eb falcon and you'd be surprised at how close a current 'small' car is to being the same size as a 20yr old 'large family car'!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

its all a matter of opinion and what you value in your car. i looked at mondeo when looking at my FG and i bought my FG. if i had the choice over, i would make the same one. i don't care if mondeo has some ****y gadgets. falcon wins for me hands down. much better looking interior layout also. obviously that is also a personal opinion.

as for the graphs of exterior dimensions, sure, mondeo is similar to falcon, but have a look at a graph of interior room. i don't like sitting in the passengers lap when driving. (obviously an exaggeration!)

I can understand people's individual preference for a RWD car but should that opinion
overpower the desire of a bigger pool of buyers who possibly want a large car with different dynamics..

The whole point of a RWD Falcon is that it fills a need in the market which no other global product can,
can we honestly say with flagging sales that another Falcon will sell better than a global vehicle?

(Edit, I typed Ralcon - a Scooby Doo flash back..)

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by prydey

as for the graphs of exterior dimensions, sure, mondeo is similar to falcon, but have a look at a graph of interior room. i don't like sitting in the passengers lap when driving. (obviously an exaggeration!)

Which is an unfortunate irony isn't it. The Mondeo is bigger in every external dimension except length, yet despite its FWD layout, somehow manages to be smaller inside. Is that really the case?

So the benefit of FWD in this instance is what, 8.1lt/100km (Falcon) vs 8.0lt/100km (Mondeo), and the warm fuzzy feeling that you provided Ford Motor Company with a larger profit margin...

[AC]

Originally Posted by prydey

its all a matter of opinion and what you value in your car. i looked at mondeo when looking at my FG and i bought my FG. if i had the choice over, i would make the same one. i don't care if mondeo has some ****y gadgets. falcon wins for me hands down. much better looking interior layout also. obviously that is also a personal opinion.

This

Tis one thing I noticed about the Mondeo's, lots of gadgets.
Takes a lot away from the driving experience.

But I guess I'm lucky, I haven't been spoilt by all that.
Im just happy to have Power Steering, A/C and Power Windows.

But in reference to the OP's question, Falcon shouldnt need to shrink, because every other car around it seems to have grown to its size and they still call them medium sized cars.

[Mr Hardware]

Car sizes are getting silly. My current model Corolla is the same size as a 1990 Camry. A VE is bigger than a Kingswood!

The falcon on the other hand, has always been about the same size. About 186cm wide and about 480cm long. Been that way for about 45 years.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Car sizes are getting silly. My current model Corolla is the same size as a 1990 Camry. A VE is bigger than a Kingswood!

The falcon on the other hand, has always been about the same size. About 186cm wide and about 480cm long. Been that way for about 45 years.

I saw an EB Falcon parked next to a new Mondeo, from the rear the new Mondeo made the Falcon look small..
Check out a VE commodore next to an early VB/VK and OMG, they are huge

[JimStone]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I saw an EB Falcon parked next to a new Mondeo, from the rear the new Mondeo made the Falcon look small..
Check out a VE commodore next to an early VB/VK and OMG, they are huge

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Car sizes are getting silly. My current model Corolla is the same size as a 1990 Camry. A VE is bigger than a Kingswood!

The falcon on the other hand, has always been about the same size. About 186cm wide and about 480cm long. Been that way for about 45 years.

BA parked next to XA... BA fatty monsters all over XA..

[TC200six]

Look at the evolution of the Honda Accord. A perfect example of how a small car became large.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Look at the evolution of the Honda Accord. A perfect example of how a small car became large.

I can relate to that over the years too !!!Lol..

[jpd80]

I guess it would be possible for a redesigned RWD Falcon to be both a Mid sized car and a large car,
Much the same way that Camry and Aurion are used by Toyota, sure Aurion has a lot of changes but still...

Smiled the other day,
Seems that 2013 Fusion is more than just current Mondeo with different nose and US switchgear,
- new car has around 25 mm more shoulder with and rear leg room than current Mondeo
- Interior dimensions are almost I identical to D3 Taurus (Taurus boot is bigger).
- 2013 Lincoln MKZ is fitted with 3.7 V6 and AWD

So now Ford's global mid sized car platform has grown a tad and has much wider engine choices...