"Speed Cameras are just revinue raising" QLD Police.

[flappist]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...01/2833458.htm

Originally Posted by Natalie Poyhonen ABC

By Natalie Poyhonen

Updated 1 hour 20 minutes ago

The State Government plans to roll out digital speed cameras as part of a road safety campaign, but Mr Leavers says increasing police patrols would be a more effective measure. (ABC News: Paul Robinson)

• Map: Brisbane 4000

The Queensland Police Union (QPU) says increasing the number of speed cameras being deployed across the state is simply an exercise in revenue raising.

QPU president Ian Leavers says it will not lead to a reduction in the state's road toll.

It is the first time the police union has publicly made such a suggestion.

The State Government plans to roll out digital speed cameras as part of a road safety campaign, but Mr Leavers says increasing police patrols would be a more effective measure.

"Speed cameras won't catch drink drivers, they won't catch unroadworthy vehicles, unlicensed vehicles, unregistered vehicles or those who are you know driving, talking on their mobile phones and all those other offences and dangerous driving," he said.

"They won't catch that - they will just catch those who are speeding."

A spokesman for the Police Minister says they are aiming to replace existing cameras with digital speed cameras, but the number of devices will not change.

Premier Anna Bligh says all the revenue goes into road safety initiatives.

"Wherever we've seen a reduction in the road toll, it's a combination of two things - good information to people through campaigns about the consequences of dangerous driving on our roads, and strong law enforcement, whether it's speed cameras or random breath testing," she said.

"There's a really easy way to avoid paying any revenue to the State Government for speeding and that's to stay within the speed limit."

Well now, even the thin blue line have had a gut full of "the best government money can buy".

[vztrt]

Wish the same thing could be said in Vic.

But real police on the street will do more then any "safety camera" ever will.

[4.0i_SiX]

How about fix the roads and teach people how to drive properly

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

How about fix the roads and teach people how to drive properly

Give this man a beer

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Give this man a beer

x2. But the idea involves the QLD Govt spending money as opposed to making it. And thats just not right....

[fordAU]

Never thought I would see the day that someone in the job would publicly admit that, will make zero difference though to the roll out of the new digital and point to point systems.

The toll goes down, proof that cameras work, the toll goes up, we need more.

You can forget the court accepted 10% tolerance levels when they go digital, try 2 km/h over and you are done.

[Redrum]

Same in Victoria....

[SLO AU XR8]

Originally Posted by fordAU

Never thought I would see the day that someone in the job would publicly admit that, will make zero difference though to the roll out of the new digital and point to point systems.

The toll goes down, proof that cameras work, the toll goes up, we need more.

You can forget the court accepted 10% tolerance levels when they go digital, try 2 km/h over and you are done.

and them you could pull the ADR's on the government, if you own a Pre-06 vehicle!

[cosmo20btt]

Originally Posted by fordAU

Never thought I would see the day that someone in the job would publicly admit that, will make zero difference

Well it's about time that the speed camera's are seen as revenue raising not saving lives by the Police union as it must have hit home that once you put down a bunch of cameras, maybe you don't need a big Police force anymore, and a lot of jobs are on the line. :

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Wish the same thing could be said in Vic.
But real police on the street will do more then any "safety camera" ever will.

I agree entirely. As will most of the road going public. Who has ever heard anyone say 'That safety camera saved my life'? But you do hear "F***en revenue raiser got me doing 73 in a 70, that road used to be an 80 zone!"

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

How about fix the roads and teach people how to drive properly

Yes! Cars are capable of over 180kph but the roads and drivers are not. All accidents and fatalities are a direct result of driver error.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

All accidents and fatalities are a direct result of driver error.

Do I need new batteries in my sarcasm detector?

[Springfield_Johny]

Originally Posted by 4.0i_SiX

teach people how to drive properly

To what standard?

Its a requirement currently that a person can control a vehicle to a certain standard (driving properly) to obtain a drivers licence. If you raise that standard, yes some people will never obtain a licence because they won't be capable of reaching that standard, however many still will & you will still see the same thing happening on the roads as people become lax about their driving, drive under the influence, changing lanes without indicating, cutting people off - the list could be endless.

None of us are perfect drivers, I make my share of mistakes when driving as I'm sure if we're all honest we all do from time to time.

[Franco Cozzo]

Government should take their money to TAB, Crown Casino and Powerball, not speed cameras.

[BFZ Wagon]

This stupid cow running QLD needs to go. It's pretty sad when even the police are admitting it's revenue raising and then stupid Capt. Blight comes out and dismisses it. Apparently, the idiot pollies know better than the police.. I forget.. which one of these has more experience in this area? That's right... it must be the people in their ivory tower offices who know & do stuff all except hurt the people. :
It's a bizarre state of affairs when even Sir Joh's gov't starts to look like goody goody's compared to these clowns.. :
Ok. : over.

[benjamin90]

that 2km's over is ****************! The speedo on your car is mostly off anyway!


I know mine is 4-5 K's over what i'm actually doing.


I think that they need to put more petrol cars out to pick up the **************** drivers who fail to abide simple rules, i nearly got hit today on a roundabout because another car just decided to ignore my indicator and pull out in front of me!

[JC]

Originally Posted by benjamin90

that 2km's over is ****************! The speedo on your car is mostly off anyway!


I know mine is 4-5 K's over what i'm actually doing.


I think that they need to put more petrol cars out to pick up the **************** drivers who fail to abide simple rules, i nearly got hit today on a roundabout because another car just decided to ignore my indicator and pull out in front of me!

Yes, but the Australian standard is now 10%, but the speedo cannot read slower than you are actually travelling. So if your speedo says 100, this means you can actually be doing as low as 90, and as high as.....100. in your case, with 4-5km out, 100 means you are doing 95/96. So if you get pinged for 102, your speedo would have been reading 107 roughly. Would you prefer the fine to be what your speedo is reading, or what the camera detects? (At this speed difference, there is no difference in fine)

[benjamin90]

wow you cant swear......my bad!

[needaXYGT]

What amazes me is how much money the Australian tax payer generates yet governments are always short. Like look at the home insulation scheme. Obviously well meaning and energy savings and efficiencies are a great investment. But $2.45 Billion spent in such a haphazard way? The problem with government is its not really their money. I mean no one on this earth would spend money like that if it was theirs.

Myki, the new ticketing system for melbourne public transport is another example. It cost over $1billion to get it up and running, but still, it has problems. All for a new ticketing system!

[fordOwner]

Wait till they get the cameras that are being set up here in WA that scans every cars number plate. for rego, unlicensed drivers, wanted persons etc.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by fordOwner

Wait till they get the cameras that are being set up here in WA that scans every cars number plate. for rego, unlicensed drivers, wanted persons etc.

How in hell does that work! does that mean every time your better half, or someone else, is driving you around cause you are under suspension a flying squad will be vectored to swoop down on the car?? that would get old pretty quick...

[csv8]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

How in hell does that work! does that mean every time your better half, or someone else, is driving you around cause you are under suspension a flying squad will be vectored to swoop down on the car?? that would get old pretty quick...

No..they send in SWAT.....

[Interceptor]

funny how the union says one thing, but the police still put the camera cars out where it wont do much

the local fuzz have 2 well known spots where they park thier white patrol, cant see it till you're close enough to lob a rock at it, and the ONLY fatality in the last 10 years within 15km of either spot was when a horse bolted from a drovers camp and was hit by a guy in a falcon ute

mind you, one spot in the main street of town where they used to hide is less than 100m from where there has been at least 3 fatalities in the last 10 years, but i havent seen the camera car parked there for at least 3 years, and i go past that location 4-6 times a day, 6 days a week.....

I can only guess theres not enough revenue to be had...... damned if i know why though, they'd be getting people left, right and centre doing 70-80 in a 60 zone....

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

funny how the union says one thing, but the police still put the camera cars out where it wont do much

the local fuzz have 2 well known spots where they park thier white patrol, cant see it till you're close enough to lob a rock at it, and the ONLY fatality in the last 10 years within 15km of either spot was when a horse bolted from a drovers camp and was hit by a guy in a falcon ute

mind you, one spot in the main street of town where they used to hide is less than 100m from where there has been at least 3 fatalities in the last 10 years, but i havent seen the camera car parked there for at least 3 years, and i go past that location 4-6 times a day, 6 days a week.....

I can only guess theres not enough revenue to be had...... damned if i know why though, they'd be getting people left, right and centre doing 70-80 in a 60 zone....

It may interest you to know that the individual officers have little choice in where they place speed cameras for any particular shift (in qld anyway). The locations are designated by committees made up of representatives from Police, Qld transport, Main Roads, local govt and RACQ.

Copper will arrive at work, log onto computer and the computer will tell him where to go for that shift. That’s how it used to be anyway, assume it’s still the same.

(To my knowledge these cameras are manned by officers doing overtime. It is amazing how Captain Bligh loves shelling out double time for these duties and now wants to shell out even more, but there is stuff all overtime in the budget for any other policing duties.)

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

(To my knowledge these cameras are manned by officers doing overtime. It is amazing how Captain Bligh loves shelling out double time for these duties and now wants to shell out even more, but there is stuff all overtime in the budget for any other policing duties.)

True, but most other policing duties do not produce such a profitable return, which is what i think you where alluding to....

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

funny how the union says one thing, but the police still put the camera cars out where it wont do much

Originally Posted by fordAU

Never thought I would see the day that someone in the job would publicly admit that,

Is there a bit of spin going on here in the article or in this thread? The article says it is the QPU stating this but the thread says it is the police themselves...??

Are the QPU and QLD PD the same entity or different? It just seems like words are being put into the QLD PD mouths somewhere?

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Is there a bit of spin going on here in the article or in this thread? The article says it is the QPU stating this but the thread says it is the police themselves...??

Are the QPU and QLD PD the same entity or different? It just seems like words are being put into the QLD PD mouths somewhere?

The Police Union represents the ten thousand odd coppers within Qld. The union executive is mainly made up of former officers. While there are exceptions, they generally carry the view and speak on behalf of the majority of frontline police. If they do not, then their position as representative is at risk, as the position is decided by the members by way of elections.

On the other hand, The Commissioner, his deputy and his Assistant Commissioners are Executive Officers of the QPS, which is to say, they are only employed on a contractual basis directly with the government. These contracts are renewed following periodic contract and performance reviews. As they are employed on a contractual basis, they are not afforded the regular industrial relations protection afforded to the rest of the rank and file. This may possibly explain reluctance to criticise the government on policy or budgets, considering that they rely on the same government to renew their employment contracts. IMO most simply become quasi politicians themselves, regurgitating the spin from their political masters.

On top of that, serving police officers are not permitted to publically criticise the government in any way as police officers. They can only do so as private citizens. It is in their code of conduct. Any person identifying himself as an officer, making a statement such as that in the article would be subject to internal disciplinary action and sanctions.

That is our open, accountable and transparent governments at work.

So yes, the Police Union has spoken out on this occasion, but realistically, no-one in the police service is really in a viable position to do so. (Unless they are looking for some grief).
Hope this may explain why the QPU regularly enters debate in relation to policing issues.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

Hope this may explain why the QPU regularly enters debate in relation to policing issues.

Thanks, a very well thought out a reasoned answer to my question.

I guess at the heart of this, what i am trying to understand is does the QPU have the authority to speak on behalf of the QLD PD or is it enough that it is implied because the QPU is made up principally of QLD PD employees. It seems to be enough for people to draw the conclusion on here so i'm assuming Joe Public thinks the same.

From your description, its almost as if the QPU is the public loud speaker that the QLD PD cannot have. I'm just wary of jumping on board the band wagon that says 'the QPU thinks it's revenue raising so the QLD PD must think the same'. That seems a little presumptuous to me.

In essence, it is very interesting that a big organisation like QPU has made this statement, i'm just trying to work out how much weight this statement has. Not that it will necessarily change anything.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by Inducted_Breeze

Thanks, a very well thought out a reasoned answer to my question.

I guess at the heart of this, what i am trying to understand is does the QPU have the authority to speak on behalf of the QLD PD or is it enough that it is implied because the QPU is made up principally of QLD PD employees. It seems to be enough for people to draw the conclusion on here so i'm assuming Joe Public thinks the same.

From your description, its almost as if the QPU is the public loud speaker that the QLD PD cannot have. I'm just wary of jumping on board the band wagon that says 'the QPU thinks it's revenue raising so the QLD PD must think the same'. That seems a little presumptuous to me.

In essence, it is very interesting that a big organisation like QPU has made this statement, i'm just trying to work out how much weight this statement has. Not that it will necessarily change anything.

The union doesn’t represent the entire service, perhaps 95% of it, being officers in the ranks from recruits to Senior Sergeants. The Commissioned Officers (ranks of Inspector and above) have their own separate union who look after their interests.

In answer to your query, I wouldn’t think the statement would carry much weight with the government, as they can merely roll out their Commissioner to counter the claim. And even though he rarely carries the same views as his troops, he is the “official” voice of the QPS, and mostly popular with the public, who are generally unaware of how political his position really is.

In relation to the article, I honestly don’t think the union or police are against speed cameras. They would mostly agree that they have their place, particularly in high speed areas where it is dangerous for police to be leaping out onto a roadway. I think perhaps the union was bringing attention to the governments self serving obsession with this particular facet of policing, while largely ignoring increased funding requirements for other areas of policing and crime prevention.

I think it would be a relatively safe bet however, that the majority of frontline police wouldn’t swallow the tripe from the government that all these cameras are about saving lives. Saving lives is not the core business of the government. If it was, they would realise they could save a hundred lives next week, by merely addressing our health system.

[zdcol71]

This is not by way of entering this debate, just wanted to raise a couple of points.
Obviously, this news will be heaven sent to those who believe that the cops of queensland have nothing better to do than stand around all day pinging drivers for exceeding speed limits by 2 or 3 ks.I will be the first to put my hand up and say speed cameras raise revenue, I'll also go further and say they are an incredibly efficent revenue raiser.As long as people continue to drive above the speed limit, why wouldn't you expect that a "fund raising" organisation will continue to use this tool. It always surprises me that the only time I hear of people being unjustly pingged for miniscule infractions of speeding laws is actually on these forums. It doesn't seem to be so common in the broader public arena, certainly not as prevalent as tales heard and published about people being caught doing 10. 15, 20 ks over posted limits. Makes me wonder which is the more common problem.Bear in mind speed cameras are not the only revenue raising "tool" used by the police or other authority.How many people bleat about only being one or two points over the limit when put on the bag. Again, it's been said by me and many others that there is a reason that limits are placed on what can and can't be done on our roads. If we continue to push and break these limits, then why do we continue to cry "revenue raiser" and not direct our energies into ways of changing these seemingly "ridiculous" limits? If this really is a state discrace, lets take the moaning off the forums and put up a serious ,organised movement to change things.(There are tools available, motoring lobby groups, dare I say car enthusiats groups, and now apparently, someone as influential as the police union.) If we want to keep breaking the rules that are made by the people we elect and entrust to make these rules then maybe we shouldn't keep whingeing if it rakes in revenue hand over fist.
Just an aside to the police union making this claim,it may be worth noting that like any other union, the police union is not wholly representative of the greater police service.
Put in context, I wonder how many people who have in the past bashed unions for grounding planes, halting deliveries of beer, et el, now find it convinient to champion the agendas of a group of people within a wider group.
I have the greatest respect for the police service, but I am also old enough to remember the agenda of the police union during the seventies.(again 1 group of people within a wider group) I mention this by way of reply to a previous poster who compares the current government with that of the Bjelke Petersen era, something I find akin to accusing the federal government of being nazis or communists or some other such convinient throwaway.

There is another thread generating a bit of heated debate at the moment about one of our members trying to get off a ticket.A lot of people seem to be giving generous amounts of encouragement to do so, "it's a system that can be taken advantage of"... can't the same be said for a system that seems to have an endless supply of willing, (and unwilling), contributors

[flappist]

Originally Posted by zdcol71

This is not by way of entering this debate, just wanted to raise a couple of points.
Obviously, this news will be heaven sent to those who believe that the cops of queensland have nothing better to do than stand around all day pinging drivers for exceeding speed limits by 2 or 3 ks.I will be the first to put my hand up and say speed cameras raise revenue, I'll also go further and say they are an incredibly efficent revenue raiser.As long as people continue to drive above the speed limit, why wouldn't you expect that a "fund raising" organisation will continue to use this tool. It always surprises me that the only time I hear of people being unjustly pingged for miniscule infractions of speeding laws is actually on these forums. It doesn't seem to be so common in the broader public arena, certainly not as prevalent as tales heard and published about people being caught doing 10. 15, 20 ks over posted limits. Makes me wonder which is the more common problem.Bear in mind speed cameras are not the only revenue raising "tool" used by the police or other authority.How many people bleat about only being one or two points over the limit when put on the bag. Again, it's been said by me and many others that there is a reason that limits are placed on what can and can't be done on our roads. If we continue to push and break these limits, then why do we continue to cry "revenue raiser" and not direct our energies into ways of changing these seemingly "ridiculous" limits? If this really is a state discrace, lets take the moaning off the forums and put up a serious ,organised movement to change things.(There are tools available, motoring lobby groups, dare I say car enthusiats groups, and now apparently, someone as influential as the police union.) If we want to keep breaking the rules that are made by the people we elect and entrust to make these rules then maybe we shouldn't keep whingeing if it rakes in revenue hand over fist.
Just an aside to the police union making this claim,it may be worth noting that like any other union, the police union is not wholly representative of the greater police service.
Put in context, I wonder how many people who have in the past bashed unions for grounding planes, halting deliveries of beer, et el, now find it convinient to champion the agendas of a group of people within a wider group.
I have the greatest respect for the police service, but I am also old enough to remember the agenda of the police union during the seventies.(again 1 group of people within a wider group) I mention this by way of reply to a previous poster who compares the current government with that of the Bjelke Petersen era, something I find akin to accusing the federal government of being nazis or communists or some other such convinient throwaway.

There is another thread generating a bit of heated debate at the moment about one of our members trying to get off a ticket.A lot of people seem to be giving generous amounts of encouragement to do so, "it's a system that can be taken advantage of"... can't the same be said for a system that seems to have an endless supply of willing, (and unwilling), contributors

Yet another "true believer"......

It is amazing some of the spin that Anna's apologists come up with.

Easy way to fix the problem..........