What would you do?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Hello all,

Once again, I'm in a situation that I haven't been in before. I would like to know what is the best option I should take to allow me to sleep at night.

Here is the situation. I bought a LV Focus as a present for my wife a little over 2 years ago. It was near new, with only 7XXXkm on the clock. It was owned by a dealer, and was an employee driven car. The car has only ever been serviced by the one centre. The only time I have ever taken the car to another place was for rear brakes 1 month ago.

The buying experience was hell, and I was given some of the worst service you could imagine at the hands on the 'Salesman'... I hated the car then, and with the help of Ford CRC and a few meetings we came to an agreement we were both happy with.

But, I'm not here for that. I moved along, and both myself and my wife enjoy the car. We do a lot of km, and keep cars long term (10+ years).

The service intervals were done as follows in the 2 and a bit years we have owned it:
Bought with 7846k (minor), Me: 20k (minor), 27.5k (intermediate), 35k (minor), 45k (minor), 52.5k (intermediate), 60k (major).

All done at the same servivce centre I bought the car from.

So here is the problem as it stands now. I started a thread regarding my poor consumption and at the suggestion of the mate I'm staying with did an inspection of the air intake / filter.

The original factory filter was still present in the airbox. Which wouldn't be so much of an issue if it had been installed correctly.

The air filter, from factory was installed ajar. The opening to the air intake has a 3-4mm gap going 1/3 the circumfrence of the join which has allowed a lot of unfiltered air go directly into the engine. Over time, the buckled filter has held it's new position and has obviously got very heavily contaminated..... As a lay person, I assume that the more dirty the filter got, the more air was bypassed by it as there was less restriction going through the gap.

Naturally, I'm very worried by this. I have no clue what damage has already been caused, or if anything will happen down the track. I wiped the air intake on the engine side after removing and trying to re-fit the filter with a rag and it was filthy, black dust / brown dirt and other larger particles mixed in with it.

It is obvious that at no time was the air filter inspected... makes me angry seeing as they had so many chances to find this problem early on. Especially when the 'Pre-delivery' inspection involves a detailed inspection of the filter connection and air intake seals.

It also hurts that I paid for a filter in my last service ($800) and obviously didn't get one. I have greatly lost faith with this dealership, and I get a sick feeling every time I think about it...

This is the icing on the cake to be honest.... I do NOT want to be driving this car and waiting for something to happen. This car has driven many thousands of KM in each direction from Sydney and it is something we will continue doing....

The dealer has suggested I bring it in and they put in a filter and inspect the intake for scoring. I told them that I will consider it but want it in writing.

I think their offer is BS. Another person told me to get a warranty on the engine for failure, but if it is anything like their 'extended warranty' they gave me it will also be useless... (I already had my first knock-back 2 months out of warranty).

Anyway... If anyone has had a dealer stuff them around like this let me know what the conclusion was, either by replying or by PM.

I would also like to know what others think is a reasonable solution to this situation as I'm at a loss to be honest... If we were to keep the car I don't want to be worried every time I hear a noise that's not 'normal' especially when I'm away from home like I am at the moment.....

Thank you,

Jason

[cs123]

There is no suitable outcome.

Contact CRC and complain. Get the dealer to replace the filter.

Get the car out of your life. You will never be happy with it from now on.

[Ducati888]

Try to get a resolution from the dealer, tell them what you want and how you feel.

If they don't offer a decent and amicable solution, name them and shame them on Facebook. No second chances.

As for the car, get a compression test done, think about the driving you have done - if you haven't been on many dirt roads, then the engine may be fine. Lots of dust will kill an engine, but yours has at least partially been filtered. If the compression is good, and you fix the filter, then I reckon it will be fine. Regular city and suburban driving isn't ridiculously 'dusty' or 'dirty' generally, so it would be OK. Most of the fine particulates in city air are probably too fine for an air filter to get out anyway, and anything that passes through is not big enough to hurt the engine.

Good luck.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Try to get a resolution from the dealer, tell them what you want and how you feel.

As for the car, get a compression test done, think about the driving you have done - if you haven't been on many dirt roads, then the engine may be fine. Lots of dust will kill an engine, but yours has at least partially been filtered. If the compression is good, and you fix the filter, then I reckon it will be fine. Regular city and suburban driving isn't ridiculously 'dusty' or 'dirty' generally, so it would be OK. Most of the fine particulates in city air are probably too fine for an air filter to get out anyway, and anything that passes through is not big enough to hurt the engine.

Good luck.

I would tend to go along with this course of action, however I'm also mindful of the crankcase ventilation air also would have been only partially filtered. I wonder what the cleanliness of the engine internals is like, especially considering its now done over 60,000kms.

Regarding what to do I think depends largely on the reception you get from the dealer and Ford CRC. If this situation gets to you too much and also if the fuel economy issue continues, I would seriously consider moving it on.

[Yellow_Festiva]

I'm waiting for their response in writing before I do anything. They called me in the morning and asked me what I want from them...

I'll try to get them to do some of the tests that have been suggested.

Thanks.

[Vesper Martini]

Thats appauling, especially getting charged for a new filter!

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Thats appauling, especially getting charged for a new filter!

That happens more offer than you think it does
Even with brake fluid and coolant changes

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

That happens more offer than you think it does
Even with brake fluid and coolant changes

I would imagine so, seeing as these things are harder to check, and can look almost identical between new and old.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

That happens more offer than you think it does
Even with brake fluid and coolant changes

That's why I do my own.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Thats appauling, especially getting charged for a new filter!

Which poses the question, was mine a one off honest mistake or are there dozens / hundreds of cars driving around the same way?......

[nb_351]

Go higher than the dealership if they refuse to play the game
It might feel like you get nowhere but keep going

[turbodewd]

what consumption are you getting?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

what consumption are you getting?

Around 25% more, and that's really trying in ideal conditions.

[ratter]

how long since the last service where the filter should have been replaced?, time and distance?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ratter

how long since the last service where the filter should have been replaced?, time and distance?

Around 3 weeks ago, 1500km. Did it just before driving to Melb.

Oh, I also happen to be in Frankston South where my friends live....

[ratter]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Around 3 weeks ago, 1500km. Did it just before driving to Melb.

Oh, I also happen to be in Frankston South where my friends live....

No real excuses then that I can think of.

Dealers only trust other dealers, so speak to yours and see if they will authorise Wignall Ford to replace it for you to get you out of trouble

[2011G6E]

You'd be amazed at what a difference to the running of a newish car just a simple thing like the airbox not being closed properly can have.

When we had a 100 series Landcruiser 4.2 six cylinder turbo diesel, we took it in for a service to the dealer in Rocky, and when we drove it the 170km back home, we noticed it was using more fuel than usual, and seemed to be a bit "off" in performance.
I checked things over when we got home, and noticed that the airbox wasn't closed properly. A couple of the clips were undone and it was sitting ajar at the side with a gap of about a centimeter.
I've heard of other people having issues with modern stuff as well from simple things like this. The issue is easy to understand: as I had it explained to me, the air flow sensors are told that there should be a certain flow of air to the engine, plus or minus a bit to allow for variation in how clean the air filter is, and base the fuel flow to the injectors on this figure. If you suddenly add a whole bunch more air (such as from a poorly fitted air box lid), it gets confused and thinks things are leaning out and dumps a lot more fuel in.


As for not dealerships not changing things, after one nasty incident many years ago at a big name dealership (Ok...it was a Ford dealer), I use a Nikko pen and mark in tiny letters in a hidden spot my initials on the fuel, air, and oil filters if we have to take a car (for example, to keep a warrantee) to a dealership or even somewhere like Ultratune.
It's not that I don't trust them...but...I don't...

[Pickle7]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I've heard of other people having issues with modern stuff as well from simple things like this. The issue is easy to understand: as I had it explained to me, the air flow sensors are told that there should be a certain flow of air to the engine, plus or minus a bit to allow for variation in how clean the air filter is, and base the fuel flow to the injectors on this figure. If you suddenly add a whole bunch more air (such as from a poorly fitted air box lid), it gets confused and thinks things are leaning out and dumps a lot more fuel in.

This may be the reason for fuel economy issues, some cars will learn the settings and adjust. Now the filter has been fixed you may need to get the computer reset.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I use a Nikko pen and mark in tiny letters in a hidden spot my initials on the fuel, air, and oil filters if we have to take a car (for example, to keep a warrantee) to a dealership or even somewhere like Ultratune.
It's not that I don't trust them...but...I don't...

hmm, good idea. mine is going in for it's 75,000 service shortly, so i might do that.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ratter

No real excuses then that I can think of.

Dealers only trust other dealers, so speak to yours and see if they will authorise Wignall Ford to replace it for you to get you out of trouble

Hey Ratter, I was just going to send you a PM to say thanks for the offer / suggestion but it seems I cannot send you a PM.

I didn't follow through with it as it was my last day in Melb and I didn't want to spend another day stuffing around with the car. I went out with the wife for a drive in the countryside / winerys using my mates car to get my mind off things....

I'm still dealing with dealership directly to work things out in my favour.

Cheers,

Jason

[Magna]

i have a k&n filter in the Territory and at the 90K service I got charged $40 for a new air filter. before leaving the dealership I asked if I could have the old one back as it was a k&n. they checked with the mechanic and it wasn't changed and then they said it was just a standard charge!!!!

[mik]

Ducati888's course of action sounds good, I doubt you would hear any nasty noises or suffer oil burning from that amount of mileage unless you've been in a fair bit of dirty dusty conditions , but regardless of that , it is their stuff up, I think I would be expecting a bit of free engine warranty for x amount of years as a gesture of their good faith and some concessions in future servicing.

[302 XC]

Id say you wont have a leg to stand on ....IMO
You've had the problem for 3 weeks, you have now inspected the problem,and altered the part that wasn't correctly fitted,you then have to prove it was incorrectly fitted before you fiddled with it
Place I worked at long ago had strict liability conditions,
1 was any altering,adjusting,modifying,or tampering would void any or all warranty at the businesses discretion
You've tampered with said faulty part, and that would void any warranty claim
If you took straight back it was inspected and filter was ajar,and could be proven without reasonable doubt they done it ,you could make a claim,and that claim would be at their descretion

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Id say you wont have a leg to stand on ....IMO
You've had the problem for 3 weeks, you have now inspected the problem,and altered the part that wasn't correctly fitted,you then have to prove it was incorrectly fitted before you fiddled with it
Place I worked at long ago had strict liability conditions,
1 was any altering,adjusting,modifying,or tampering would void any or all warranty at the businesses discretion
You've tampered with said faulty part, and that would void any warranty claim
If you took straight back it was inspected and filter was ajar,and could be proven without reasonable doubt they done it ,you could make a claim,and that claim would be at their descretion

The car had the problem from factory, I found the problem last Thursday arvo.

I don't have to prove anything, the filter is black and ajar, and has been like that for a very long time.

I have a receipt to say it was changed 3 weeks ago.

Bit hard to take it straight back, it's a 950km trip.

Dealer service manager has called, claimed they are very much responsible and are deeply embarrassed and regretful.

No leg to stand on? You sure?

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The car had the problem from factory, I found the problem last Thursday arvo.

I don't have to prove anything, the filter is black and ajar, and has been like that for a very long time.

I have a receipt to say it was changed 3 weeks ago.

Bit hard to take it straight back, it's a 950km trip.

Dealer service manager has called, claimed they are very much responsible and are deeply embarrassed and regretful.

No leg to stand on? You sure?

If you have a resolution and they will admit liability , that's great
The main problem nowadays is people aren't taught the correct way to do things
For example if a book says its a 9 litre engine oil and filter change,99 % will change filter tip in 9 litres and she be apps
Hardly anyone, starts the engine,lets cool and checks the thing called a dipstick and adjust fluid to suit
Its the same with tranny services, whatever the book says
I was taught from an early age never to over fill things, yet most car services I bet engines and trannies are over full,as they aren't checked

Congrats on your resolution,hope its works out

[blackf6]

I would cut my losses and be more vigilant at checking my own vehicle after service.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by teak81

I would cut my losses and be more vigilant at checking my own vehicle after service.

Yes, perhaps if the filter box wasn't bolted shut I would have checked it.

But, let's look at the bigger picture here, not everyone is car savy and put their trust in the dealer doing the right thing.

I also shouldn't be at a loss with someone else's gross stuff up.

[GREGL]

Everyone says that you only hear the bad stories and there are heaps of happy customers around that are completely satisfied . I think I have found the answer to a lot of peoples dramas with dealer servicing . Pay up , don't check what they do and drive it . It's all mind over matter . just because you pay half a years wage initially does not entitle to trouble free motoring, you have to remember there is ALWAYS the option of passing your problem on to someone else as some other forum members advocate. ( Gold that is the manufacturer AND the dealer both live to fight another day ) and some other sucker pays to fix it .
Best of luck YF I know how you feel !

[Franco Cozzo]

Click me

On a more serious note, if I were you I'd make them inspect the shaft play on the turbo now, I drove mine for 200km accidentally with no filter when my dodgy CAI setup let go.

I had some really loud induction noise happening, I couldn't be bothered popping the bonnet until 2 days later in Sunbury Square shopping center, and noticed my foam pod filter inside its carbon fibre surround wedged between the chassis rail and gearbox.

If you were to suck anything through the intake, the turbo would have copped it if it didn't get caught in the intercooler, inspect shaft play and condition of the blades.

I reverted to the factory intake setup when my car blew its return line, so I should inspect my filter too.

A family friend caught out a Holden dealer, he used UV dye to mark his filters he supplied, and then inspected the car afterwards with a blacklight, and they tried to deny it, but came forward.

They wanted to keep it hush hush and offered him free servicing, so I think on the whole there are a lot of dodgy dealerships and mechanics out there, its finding a good one thats hard and when you do, stick to them like **** to a blanket, my mechanic is planning to escape to QLD one day to retire, I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen .

[EB#]

It is difficult to know whether the filter has been mis-aligned since factory
or from one of the 7 services it has had. An inspection and air tool clean of the filter
is pretty standard for a service I would expect, even if they don't replace it.

Also, is there any guarantee that the same dealership will conduct your compression
test properly and give you some straight answers? You say that the service to date
has been lacking, so to continue with them may not be the best option? Maybe another
mechanic could be used to check out the car and see where-to next.