Customers to decide Falcon ute future

[munners]

From Go Auto

Ford says customers will decide ute’s future – but its fate might already be sealed
4 July 2011
By TERRY MARTIN
AUSTRALIAN consumers will decide whether Ford would continue to offer a Falcon utility beyond the current generation, according to Ford Australia president Bob Graziano.

As the Ford Motor Co continues to keep plans for the next-generation Falcon sedan close to its chest, the likelihood of switching to a front-drive Taurus-based architecture brings into question the future of all vehicles – including the ute and Territory SUV – built off the current unique Australian-developed platform, which reaches the end of the line in 2016.

Asked in an interview with GoAuto at the Australian International Motor Show in Melbourne last Friday whether there would be a utility when Falcon enters its next generation, Mr Graziano said: “It’s really dependent on what the customers tell us that they want and need.”

Ford Australia vice-president of marketing, sales and service Beth Donovan added that customers were telling the company that they wanted and needed such a vehicle “in the sports part of the segment” but acknowledged that the imported Ranger utility was doing an excellent job in meeting broader market requirements.

In response to a question on whether sports ute sales were significant enough to keep developing the local ute into a new generation, Ms Donovan said: “The customer is going to tell us, and I think that’s the message you need to take away from it.

Left: Ford Australia president Bob Graziano. Below: Ford Ranger.

“The good news for us is, with bringing Ranger in, it gives that customer even more choice.

“Having said that, we’ve had a choice, right?, (and) we’ve just set a record on Ranger sales in June.”

The question remains as to whether Ford Australia has any room to move on Falcon ute if its parent company in Detroit decides – or has already decided – to switch to a Taurus-based platform.

On this point, Mr Graziano said “it depends on where we go in the future” but highlighted that Ford Australia was “very fortunate that we have access to global technologies” and that it was committed to the ‘One Ford’ strategy that, in part, calls for reduced platforms and powertrains.

“The engineering team was very instrumental in the Ranger development and so we are going to continue to work as part of that strategy globally to make sure we’ve got the right products in Australia based on what the Australian customers are telling us that they want and value,” he said.

Ford Motor Co’s group vice-president of design and chief creative officer J Mays told GoAuto at the Detroit motor show in January that a decision on the underpinnings of the next-generation Falcon would be made by mid-2011, so the utility’s fate might already be sealed.

Mr Mays also said at the time that Australians should not hold their breath for a continuation of a rear-drive platform but be prepared for (front-drive-based) 4WD architecture.

“I know that rear-wheel drive is very important to the Australian market,” he said.

“We’re not talking about it right now … we’re looking at it – but I wouldn’t be holding my breath for rear-wheel drive. I think the chances are it will be all-wheel drive.”

Big impact on Falcon ute and sedan.

Munners

[Polyal]

Come on Ford NA..work out what is happening. All this conjecture of Taurus this and that is not good for business. Ford are bringing this on themselves. They also have to realize they need to make the ute competitive with the ranger, which is going to be very hard because the ute just doesnt have the same cash thrown at it. What will happen is they will do bugger all to the ute and then go "well I guess the people have spoken".

Its going to take alot of dedication to keep the ute with the Ranger around, especially if they have sorted the ride in the ranger and taken it away from the usual kidney bashing that pickups are known for.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Bring back XR8 and RTV then decide on its fait..

They arent giving it a very good shot, and Bob the way you treat your customers its no suprise they don't come back!

[HSVKILLA]

Man this really is like the snowball rolling down the mountain getting bigger and bigger but in reverse form,and the snowball is spitting out name plates and various models all over the show .

[mr smith]

Ute is next on the chopping block. There is no way it will continue when Ford have invested so much into the global T6.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Bring back XR8 and RTV then decide on its fait..

They arent giving it a very good shot, and Bob the way you treat your customers its no suprise they don't come back!

I have seen plenty of RTV's as tradesmans vehicles. More so than standard utes.

But Ford, or any car company for that matter... don't really listen to customers... they just tell us what WE need and want, and then provide that because it makes sense for shareholders.

Not improving Falcon or it's derivatives, and just watching it sink isn't an indication of customer preference in trends.... but how the manufacturer is making it appealing to the customer.

Why are Ford such ********* in this matter? And their executives soooo infuriating?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

But Ford, or any car company for that matter... don't really listen to customers... they just tell us what WE need and want, and then provide that because it makes sense for shareholders.

That's not exactly true, in fact, not at all.

Fords development line up (and every other manufacturer, car or otherwise) is based on what consumers are actually purchasing, projected sales need to match up with actual sales...budgets need to be realistic and within operating capabilities.

Marketing aids are used to influence buyer choice and create desire for the said product. Even with marketing aids, there is the possibility that there will be little or no demand for their product. Latent demand is not a desirable outcome for a manufacturer of any variety. The life cycle of a product comes into play as well, what started out as 'overfull' demand, can very easily peter off over time to become no demand. The question is, even if Ford came to the party, how many of you actually have the cash to pay for it...

The statistics and research behind the scenes to indicate what will be a good seller and what will be a poor seller is not totally understood (read, not at all) by the consumer, particularly the consumer who has come into the game late, ergo the XR8 argument. The desire to have an XR8 NOW as opposed to previously is because NOW...you can't have it. And we all know what happens when you want something you can't have...you just want it more.

The ute is seen as a good seller, but is it really from a marketing and business perspective?

I'd personally like to see the ute stay as I think it's a great vehicle and it covers a market, but it's appearing that it's becoming a 'niche market' also, as most of Ford's vehicles have started to become, be it by outpricing in other segments by other manufacturers, or by poor perception from the public.

I hope the public actually put their money where their mouths are in this instance, because it would be sad to see a vehicle of this calibre become a ghost...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

That's not exactly true, in fact, not at all.

Fords development line up (and every other manufacturer, car or otherwise) is based on what consumers are actually purchasing, projected sales need to match up with actual sales...budgets need to be realistic and within operating capabilities.

Marketing aids are used to influence buyer choice and create desire for the said product. Even with marketing aids, there is the possibility that there will be little or no demand for their product. Latent demand is not a desirable outcome for a manufacturer of any variety. The life cycle of a product comes into play as well, what started out as 'overfull' demand, can very easily peter off over time to become no demand. The question is, even if Ford came to the party, how many of you actually have the cash to pay for it...

The statistics and research behind the scenes to indicate what will be a good seller and what will be a poor seller is not totally understood (read, not at all) by the consumer, particularly the consumer who has come into the game late, ergo the XR8 argument. The desire to have an XR8 NOW as opposed to previously is because NOW...you can't have it. And we all know what happens when you want something you can't have...you just want it more.

The ute is seen as a good seller, but is it really from a marketing and business perspective?

I'd personally like to see the ute stay as I think it's a great vehicle and it covers a market, but it's appearing that it's becoming a 'niche market' also, as most of Ford's vehicles have started to become, be it by outpricing in other segments by other manufacturers, or by poor perception from the public.

I hope the public actually put their money where their mouths are in this instance, because it would be sad to see a vehicle of this calibre become a ghost...

And if the tone is set by want they want to sell...? If it's within budget to sell what customers want... then sure, no brainer. It can't hurt. But I seriously doubt there is a car out there where everything has been designed by what people want.

Ford's problem is they're skimping on the things people expect... like a lockable fuel door.

Not to mention no export, which isn't really their fault. But they can't spend more money on something that the parent company wants to analyse.... as in it's current form isn't up to snuff.... because of such povo cost cutting measures. A vicious cycle... which could end in disaster?

I can't imagine a Ford Australia not making and selling a sedan based ute. They invented the bloody thing.

Either Australians wanting Australian products are declaring they don't want Ford, because of treatment from the brand... or the product just doesn't compare? How can that be when Falcon is a great car?

FoA really need to attempt to save the Ute... instead of watching it die and hoping it'll get better. I suppose they could always make it more like the sedan... like Holden does which would cut costs in development and parts. Like IRS.... but the official word from executives isn't inspiring. It's like they really don't care.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

And if the tone is set by want they want to sell...? If it's within budget to sell what customers want... then sure, no brainer. It can't hurt. But I seriously doubt there is a car out there where everything has been designed by what people want.

Ford's problem is they're skimping on the things people expect... like a lockable fuel door.

Not to mention no export, which isn't really their fault. But they can't spend more money on something that the parent company wants to analyse.... as in it's current form isn't up to snuff.... because of such povo cost cutting measures. A vicious cycle... which could end in disaster?

I can't imagine a Ford Australia not making and selling a sedan based ute. They invented the bloody thing.

Either Australians wanting Australian products are declaring they don't want Ford, because of treatment from the brand... or the product just doesn't compare? How can that be when Falcon is a great car?

FoA really need to attempt to save the Ute... instead of watching it die and hoping it'll get better. I suppose they could always make it more like the sedan... like Holden does which would cut costs in development and parts. Like IRS.... but the official word from executives isn't inspiring. It's like they really don't care.

Alright, lets get real basic. Instead of focusing on a car, lets say it's an Apple iphone...perception is that the iphone is awesome...and there is always a queue to buy Apple products...why?

Is it because the product is fantastic?

Or is it because their marketing tells people it's fantastic?

There's a big difference between reality and fiction - Apple create fiction well, and convince society that they need it. It's all about keeping up with the Jones'. Some people love the iphone, some loathe it...marketing or no marketing. The same applies to the ute...but there's a catch...

As far as a lockable fuel door goes, I don't see any need for it and I doubt many others would either, and to be honest, this is the first time I've even heard it mentioned. That being said, I don't really get out much to listen to what Joe Consumer 'wants'...which is usually based on what someone else already 'has' and utilises to their benefit with their marketing, indicating that Ford needs it and is lost without it...

These types of articles are making the situation look a lot worse than it really needs to, which gets the consumer talking about 'Ford going down the gurgler' yet again, which doesn't really help perception at all does it?

I don't think exports will ever be lucrative for Australian car manufacturers, not by a long shot - the costs involved aren't worth the ROI, which would be minimal at best...

Long and the short of it is that every product has a life-cycle...we've seen it with the XA all the way through the the FG. Everything has a cycle and must either come to the end of that cycle, or be changed to suit the current 'demand' for the product, as the models over the decades have shown.

If you observe what Ford are doing, you will see there are quite a few advertisements floating about on TV for the Ranger...how many ad's have you seen based on the ute? And what is happening, sales of the Ranger are increasing, sales of the ute...well, that's debatable.

My question is, 'what's the real plan Mr. FoA?'

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Bring back XR8 and RTV then decide on its fait..

They arent giving it a very good shot, and Bob the way you treat your customers its no suprise they don't come back!

Too right. Asking customers to keep supporting what is effectively 'half a range' of viable models is a bit rich.

[Polyal]

Would it be wrong of me to think its actually convenient to have a US guy running the show here at the moment given what could possibly occur? What aussie CEO would want to be at the helm when/if the Falcon is laid to rest?

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Would it be wrong of me to think its actually convenient to have a US guy running the show here at the moment given what could possibly occur? What aussie CEO would want to be at the held when/if the Falcon is laid to rest?

I think you are spot on. Even going back a bit, I belive Bill Osbourne left as he saw the passion of the people and didnt want to be the toe cutter.

[Stazza_Brendan]

Can see fords point of view in a way. They killed the wagon (which in previous bodys shared the ute chassis) and the ford ute has stuck with live axle and will cost more in any next gen body to develop a ute chassis.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Stazza_Brendan

Can see fords point of view in a way. They killed the wagon (which in previous bodys shared the ute chassis) and the ford ute has stuck with live axle and will cost more in any next gen body to develop a ute chassis.

I agree, standing back it makes fiscal sense.

But, what price do you put on history, employees jobs, suppliers etc, the chain is long. Its not up to Ford NA to overly worry about these things but they are factors and its the reason the Gov tips into out industry.

If FoA stays profitable, or even has minimal lossess and Ford NA are breaking records I cant see what the deal is. But when the poo hits the fan like now and they are not moving numbers thats when problems occur and its hard to continue investing in the model we have.

There is one savior, GWRD, but they wont say boo about it.

[FPV+fteT3]

The ranger is nothing like a falcon ute. I would not buy a ranger but I do own an FPV sports ute and a BF XT work ute a ranger would not come into consideration for me it looks too much like a truck / hilux. It's a USA oriented F series wannabee vehicle where I prefer a sedan type of ute. Like many others if falcon utes are stopped team red will gain another customer.
I have owned 3 different B series utes so I have done my bit to support the brand.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

The ranger is nothing like a falcon ute. I would not buy a ranger but I do own an FPV sports ute and a BF XT work ute a ranger would not come into consideration for me it looks too much like a truck / hilux. It's a USA oriented F series wannabee vehicle where I prefer a sedan type of ute. Like many others if falcon utes are stopped team red will gain another customer.
I have owned 3 different B series utes so I have done my bit to support the brand.

Agreed, the ute is a nicer car, although we should wait until the Ranger is full tested buy journo's/customers before writing it off; on paper its a great car.

Its like the Tezz, im sure Ford where hoping that the wagon fleets would just "jump" over. But I am yet to see that, I rarely see a tezz taxi, although paramedics/police/ambo's seem to have a few Tezz's but in small numbers. The wagon was not pretty but it got the job done, i think they under estimated its popularity in the commercial sector. I still see plenty of Telstra wagons.

But for private buyers, for a family car, the RWD Tezz is a much better proposition, FE is now "sorted" with diesel aswell although LIpLPG would be good in that.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

I have done my bit to support the brand.

yeah, we can only buy one every three-five years

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

If you want car like comfort with practicality of a big boot go buy a Mercedes Sprinter. Its more comfortable than most cars I reckon.

but a sprinter is an ugly box on wheels, not a sleek muscle car like falcon ute.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

but a sprinter is an ugly box on wheels

I suspect that you praise it too highly even with that opinion

Cheers
Russ

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

yeah, we can only buy one every three-five years


but a sprinter is an ugly box on wheels, not a sleek muscle car like falcon ute.

Its a nice looking box on wheels

Falcon ute isn't a muscle car.

[Bucknaked]

It won't be long until everything we can identify as being Australian will be gone and replaced with a very American flavour. The US are calling the shots, they are doing it to support their own industry. By having a global company with a global platform, it's their way of making their industry bigger and better, making more jobs for their country, while countries like Australia, lose everything. They will give us small part in their grand plan.

[Mad_Pom]

This has nothing to do with America protecting American jobs and 100% to do with business.
Ute customers have a price point they are willing to spend on a Ute.
The components required to make a Ute have a cost.
The investment to develop and sign-off a Ute has a cost.
Then there is the bit that customers influence - buying them.

If you can not share the cost of development across the number of Utes sold and still turn a profit (of about 10% ROI), then it does not make fiscal sense.
Ford is a business, not a charity and needs to make money.

VFACTS for June 2011
Falcon Ute - 664 & Holden Ute - 1,227 a total of 1,891 sedan based Utes sold in Australia only (and a small volume in NZ)
Pick-up based vehicles (4x2 & 4x4) - 13,969 and all of these vehicles are imported and sold in other markets.

Customers are telling all vehicle manufactures what they prefer. If those numbers were reversed and 14,000 Utes were being sold, what do you think the vehicle manufacturers would make more off?

[EgoFG]

The trouble with US owned companies is that they are by-and-large US companies - NOT global companies.

[Mechan1k]

Such a shame ... going on the dimension figures ... the Ranger styleside ute doesn't fit a "standard" CHEP pallet in it ... the Falcon Styleside does.

Massive oversight there. Some some of us that don't really want to change the body over to a tray .. this is a pain really. It'll push potential customers away to other manufacturers at least.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Such a shame ... going on the dimension figures ... the Ranger styleside ute doesn't fit a "standard" CHEP pallet in it ... the Falcon Styleside does.

Massive oversight there. Some some of us that don't really want to change the body over to a tray .. this is a pain really. It'll push potential customers away to other manufacturers at least.

I'll second that one. It will certainly be a shame if they decide the Ranger is enough, because clearly, it's not. The ute is a big enough vehicle for someone my size, without the 'truck' tag that goes with the Ranger... :(

[GTP-814]

i think the big problem is that they are looking at FWD for a falcon future & utes dont into that category. So what happened to the mustang platform & a ute version?

[Polyal]

I also find it amazing how Ford is going through all this "thinking" and Holden are very very quite. They are in the same boat, big difference in how the companies are run there.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I also find it amazing how Ford is going through all this "thinking" and Holden are very very quite. They are in the same boat, big difference in how the companies are run there.

Getting people ready for the demise of the Falcon and Terri. Ford never 'thought' like this during the problems with the poor sales of the BFII.

Hopefully Falcon pulls back the sales with the LPG model. But it will probably be killed off regardless, Ford tried killing the wagon off back in 06 but they couldn't do it till euro 4....the wagon just wouldn't die.

As for the Commodore Ute its not that far off being killed itself. This months sales were a once off for the year. Its sales have been quite poor this year.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Getting people ready for the demise of the Falcon and Terri. Ford never 'thought' like this during the problems with the poor sales of the BFII.

Because FG was due out a few months later?

[AC]

I foresee that from 2016 Holden will get a bigger market share in Utes




.

[Polyal]

There is no doubt that the trend to pick ups is there, whether its just a fad or not is another question and impossible to pick. Like every product these days people expect multi functionality.

DASH GT is right, no XR8 hurts big time.

And imagine if they pushed the RTV a little bit further. It could have capitalized on the above trend and been marketed as an alternative. Ride height + better comfort.

Perhaps it was let down by no diesel, I dont know the splits but I would say a high percentage of the pick up sales are diesel. Happy to be proven wrong though.