China protests

[J Arthur Rank]

It's great to see the people have finally had a gut full and are standing up against the ccp and that miserable **** xi.

I'm sure he'll try to stamp it all out and is already up to his usual despicable **** but the news and sentiment has seemingly spread so far across the country now, it's going to be much harder to do I hope.

Let's hope the people can finally have some semblance of freedom, not just those in Xinjiang but everywhere in China.

[marty351]

Be on the lookout for those in the media world that censor this subject.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by marty351

Be on the lookout for those in the media world that censor this subject.

Or a Russian troll to say it’s not true.

[tichman]

Wow, yet another thread based on misinformation, bias and propaganda from our MSM who censor out any view or opinion that counters the western rhetoric designed to rein in China's ongoing success at playing the capitalist game.

[J Arthur Rank]

What's MSM tichman?

[Charliewool]

Main Stream Media

[J Arthur Rank]

Thanks Charles - you learn something new every day!

Tichman, if you're serious about those comments, please elaborate - we're all adults here (hopefully) and should be able to discuss topics as same.

Personally, I don't watch or read any mainstream news/current affairs. One of my best mates is a Chinese bloke, currently living in Hong Kong. I'd trust what he tells me and what I discern from a few good youtube channels I've been watching for years.

The consensus seems to be a lot of folks in China have finally cracked the ****s with the insane zero covid racket and have stood up to Xi's bull****. I maintain that from all I have read and seen of his actions, he is a miserable c### and I hope the people there have a win, even if just a small one.

[stock1991]

Of course there are various factors which triggered the riots, one I heard was the world cup. Chinese citizens seeing large crowds of people gathered unmasked having fun when they were told the rest the world is dying from COVID and China's zero policy was the only thing saving them

[tichman]

Originally Posted by J Arthur Rank

Thanks Charles - you learn something new every day!

Tichman, if you're serious about those comments, please elaborate - we're all adults here (hopefully) and should be able to discuss topics as same.

Personally, I don't watch or read any mainstream news/current affairs. One of my best mates is a Chinese bloke, currently living in Hong Kong. I'd trust what he tells me and what I discern from a few good youtube channels I've been watching for years.

The consensus seems to be a lot of folks in China have finally cracked the ****s with the insane zero covid racket and have stood up to Xi's bull****. I maintain that from all I have read and seen of his actions, he is a miserable c### and I hope the people there have a win, even if just a small one.

That's the whole point, from your own admission you are getting your information from a guy living in HK, who is probably (going by you saying what you have heard) is anti Xi plus what a few YT channels have been showing. Xi has recently been leading China to be the economic powerhouse it is today, yet western governments get anxious and scared of losing some sort of power over smaller countries that China may be entering into deals with (without military intimidation, sanctions, regime change or other bully tactic our own western powers have engaged in for years), which is no different from what our own governments wish to do yet have taken many of those smaller nations for granted for many years.

The US scrambled to get into the recent meeting held for Pacific nations over climate change and it's effects on those smaller nations with the US only showing an interest after China made a deal with one of those smaller nations.
These nations are slowly disappearing under the waves which is something that we mostly don't feel affected by as it's not affecting our homes but if it was, I'm sure we would all be looking for answers and those who have contributed to the cause of rising water levels to make amends or do something to stop the loss of these islands.
So the US decides to give $810M in an attempt to see off the Chinese offer of help and assistance and all I see in the MSM (and I see a lot of it including daily newspaper delivery) is all the hype about $810M which may seem like a lot yet when one considers the US has committed over $54B, that's like $54000M to one country in Europe to fight a war it can't win, when the US has many of it's own people in poverty, homeless, killing one another which are issues it should be addressing but we don't get to see much of that as that's not the narrative the US wishes the world to see it through.

Xi is an elected leader, like it or not, that is the case. He doesn't hold power because he is a military strongman like say General Pinochet from Chile who was put in power through the CIA and US ending Allende's democratically elected government and created a military dictatorship. There are many examples through history of our western "leaders" or more like, governments who have overthrown elected leaders all in order to take advantage of a countries resources or strategic position in the world, and those governments are usually beholden to corporates and/or the mega wealthy. Take BPs stance with Iran in 1953 and what happened then which led to the Shah puppet of the US until he was turfed out in the 1979 revolution by the PEOPLE of Iran.

The western MSM is the last place I would go to for accurate information, RT is no longer available on TV here due to I can only conclude some relevance to the special military operation in Ukraine yet if we don't get both sides of the story, how are we supposed to make informed decisions on what our governments should or should not be doing.... I don't want to see our governments doing the same things we condemn other governments for doing yet that is exactly what goes on but it's all presented as being "justified" through spin or through outright lies and because it's our "team" we think it is ok, hell I bet no one in another country who has lost a loved one from our western governments military actions would think we are the great saviours we make ourselves out to be.... just because some other country has a different culture to ours doesn't mean theirs is wrong and ours is right anymore than how I run my household compared to how my neighbour runs his/hers/theirs.
We in the west seem to have this ingrained belief that we know best, we are right, our way is the only way and I just don't agree with that, hell we have major issues with crime, killings, alcohol, meth, homelessness... the list goes on, we are far from perfect yet some of our western governments seem to think we are so much better than others when that clearly is not the case, it is all perception and how we are fed information to keep the voters inline.

The fact that Xi is elected means that any dissenting voices are the minority, which in our democratic belief gives him the right to rule with the blessing of the masses... if that changes and the masses go against him then he will be ousted and that is exactly why our governments seek to sow dissent in those countries that have some value to our economies but don't have a "friendly"
leader who will do as we say, all in order to try and encourage regime change to another puppet leader. The US/Israel has been trying that for some 10 odd years now in Syria with no success, the current protests in Iran are no different. Media needs clicks/sales, just like reality TV they make Cr@p up that they feed to the masses through MSM.

Believe what you will, it's no skin off my nose, just do try and get both sides of a story before making up your mind.
Some hysterical types still hold to some Russian troll tripe as a label for anyone who disagrees with their point of view, it just shows how small minded such types are and how easily led they are. Followers.... just what the powers that be like!

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by tichman

That's the whole point, from your own admission you are getting your information from a guy living in HK, who is probably (going by you saying what you have heard) is anti Xi plus what a few YT channels have been showing. Xi has recently been leading China to be the economic powerhouse it is today, yet western governments get anxious and scared of losing some sort of power over smaller countries that China may be entering into deals with (without military intimidation, sanctions, regime change or other bully tactic our own western powers have engaged in for years), which is no different from what our own governments wish to do yet have taken many of those smaller nations for granted for many years.

The US scrambled to get into the recent meeting held for Pacific nations over climate change and it's effects on those smaller nations with the US only showing an interest after China made a deal with one of those smaller nations.
These nations are slowly disappearing under the waves which is something that we mostly don't feel affected by as it's not affecting our homes but if it was, I'm sure we would all be looking for answers and those who have contributed to the cause of rising water levels to make amends or do something to stop the loss of these islands.
So the US decides to give $810M in an attempt to see off the Chinese offer of help and assistance and all I see in the MSM (and I see a lot of it including daily newspaper delivery) is all the hype about $810M which may seem like a lot yet when one considers the US has committed over $54B, that's like $54000M to one country in Europe to fight a war it can't win, when the US has many of it's own people in poverty, homeless, killing one another which are issues it should be addressing but we don't get to see much of that as that's not the narrative the US wishes the world to see it through.

Xi is an elected leader, like it or not, that is the case. He doesn't hold power because he is a military strongman like say General Pinochet from Chile who was put in power through the CIA and US ending Allende's democratically elected government and created a military dictatorship. There are many examples through history of our western "leaders" or more like, governments who have overthrown elected leaders all in order to take advantage of a countries resources or strategic position in the world, and those governments are usually beholden to corporates and/or the mega wealthy. Take BPs stance with Iran in 1953 and what happened then which led to the Shah puppet of the US until he was turfed out in the 1979 revolution by the PEOPLE of Iran.

The western MSM is the last place I would go to for accurate information, RT is no longer available on TV here due to I can only conclude some relevance to the special military operation in Ukraine yet if we don't get both sides of the story, how are we supposed to make informed decisions on what our governments should or should not be doing.... I don't want to see our governments doing the same things we condemn other governments for doing yet that is exactly what goes on but it's all presented as being "justified" through spin or through outright lies and because it's our "team" we think it is ok, hell I bet no one in another country who has lost a loved one from our western governments military actions would think we are the great saviours we make ourselves out to be.... just because some other country has a different culture to ours doesn't mean theirs is wrong and ours is right anymore than how I run my household compared to how my neighbour runs his/hers/theirs.
We in the west seem to have this ingrained belief that we know best, we are right, our way is the only way and I just don't agree with that, hell we have major issues with crime, killings, alcohol, meth, homelessness... the list goes on, we are far from perfect yet some of our western governments seem to think we are so much better than others when that clearly is not the case, it is all perception and how we are fed information to keep the voters inline.

The fact that Xi is elected means that any dissenting voices are the minority, which in our democratic belief gives him the right to rule with the blessing of the masses... if that changes and the masses go against him then he will be ousted and that is exactly why our governments seek to sow dissent in those countries that have some value to our economies but don't have a "friendly"
leader who will do as we say, all in order to try and encourage regime change to another puppet leader. The US/Israel has been trying that for some 10 odd years now in Syria with no success, the current protests in Iran are no different. Media needs clicks/sales, just like reality TV they make Cr@p up that they feed to the masses through MSM.

Believe what you will, it's no skin off my nose, just do try and get both sides of a story before making up your mind.
Some hysterical types still hold to some Russian troll tripe as a label for anyone who disagrees with their point of view, it just shows how small minded such types are and how easily led they are. Followers.... just what the powers that be like!

All fair points and good opinions.

Of course you couldn't make any of those points or express opinions over there.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by tweeked

All fair points and good opinions.

Of course you couldn't make any of those points or express opinions over there.

Lol, a Russian troll is here (you know who he is) and he is spinning the usual Russian and Chinese propaganda.

Let’s all sit in a circle sing Kumbaya and agree the CCP is the best things since Vladimir Putler.

The “West” is bad, and we are all complicit in the “New world order”, we should bow down to the CCP and Putler (because they’re good and the West is bad).

Let’s debate it ( our leaders that is ), and go back and sign something like the Munich agreement of 1938. “Peace in our time”. Because that was a complete success.

Civilised nations should never Kowtow to the CCP or their mates in the Russian Kleptocracy (or we’ll be next in losing our freedom).

Having said that, we need better relations with China to help with much of our economy, but we don’t need trolls to tell us we how “China is great”.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Lol, a Russian troll is here (you know who he is) and he is spinning the usual Russian and Chinese propaganda.

Let’s all sit in a circle sing Kumbaya and agree the CCP is the best things since Vladimir Putler.

The “West” is bad, and we are all complicit in the “New world order”, we should bow down to the CCP and Putler (because they’re good and the West is bad).

Let’s debate it ( our leaders that is ), and go back and sign something like the Munich agreement of 1938. “Peace in our time”. Because that was a complete success.

Civilised nations should never Kowtow to the CCP or their mates in the Russian Kleptocracy (or we’ll be next in losing our freedom).

Having said that, we need better relations with China to help with much of our economy, but we don’t need trolls to tell us we how “China is great”.

Did you miss PG2's post just above yours?.... especially the part he said "Keep it on topic and leave the insults out of it"

[J Arthur Rank]

Yeah mate, I did see that clip where the crowd shots had people enjoying themselves sans masks. I'd be ****ed too if I had been told one thing for years then saw the complete opposite of it on that kind of scale.

Oppressing people clearly wears them down but doesn't automatically make them stupid and totally devoid of emotion - seems the ccp doesn't really appreciate that.

[T3rminator]

If they can see world cup crowds unmasked then they can see that the world was living relatively restriction free for the past 12 months. Probably to do with people being fed up of being literally chained to their homes, and the (preventable?) fire deaths in Xinjiang has tipped people over the edge. Don't forget, large parts of the country was living relatively restrictions free throughout covid.

So, contrary to some beliefs on past china threads, it looks like the chinese people don't like to be controlled, can think for themselves and aren't scared to voice their disapproval. Never underestimate people power. Even if just 2-3% of the population rise up, it will be impossible for the government control.

The timing is also very interesting. Taiwan president has just announced she is stepping down at the next election due to her party losing the mid terms. The bloke touted to take her place is a 41 year old and supposedly pro Beijing. Would have been prime time for pro gov propaganda, but this has thrown the spanner in the works.

[stock1991]

China's media is state run, meaning the general population only sees what the government decides. No Facebook, no Twitter only heavily censored and totally monitored Chinese versions of those sites. This is one link to a story covering the world cup outrage

https://mothership.sg/2022/11/china-...-cup-no-masks/

[FairmontGS]

There’s nothing more sickening and pitiful than Western-based Genocide Apologists…

Close the thread. It’s just another magnet for them.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

There’s nothing more sickening and pitiful than Western-based Genocide Apologists…

Close the thread. It’s just another magnet for them.

Agree, I'm with you on this one, some people do not realise how lucky they are.

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

There’s nothing more sickening and pitiful than Western-based Genocide Apologists…

Close the thread. It’s just another magnet for them.

yep as usual, "your way or the highway"... bit of a theme of late for some! or may be just block them! lol

[J Arthur Rank]

Thanks tichman, I appreciate the considered reply mate and we will have to agree to disagree as the saying goes. That's fine in my book though and I hope it is in your's too.

I would argue that my mate is not so much anti Xi as he is anti ccp and most of what they stand for and enforce. The same goes for the chaps on youtube, all three of which lived in China for years, learnt the language and can speak and read it. I don't know them but from watching many hours of their stuff, it's clear they love the place and the people and are still in regular contact with a lot of those same people they met. That seems to me a pretty valid source of info as to what the sentiment is like there.

The economics or Xi's election status and China's belt and road stuff are another topic so it's probably best to leave that out of this one I think. I wasn't alluding to any of that though and don't think it's the main reason people are "revolting" currently.

[tichman]

Originally Posted by J Arthur Rank

Thanks tichman, I appreciate the considered reply mate and we will have to agree to disagree as the saying goes. That's fine in my book though and I hope it is in your's too.

I would argue that my mate is not so much anti Xi as he is anti ccp and most of what they stand for and enforce. The same goes for the chaps on youtube, all three of which lived in China for years, learnt the language and can speak and read it. I don't know them but from watching many hours of their stuff, it's clear they love the place and the people and are still in regular contact with a lot of those same people they met. That seems to me a pretty valid source of info as to what the sentiment is like there.

The economics or Xi's election status and China's belt and road stuff are another topic so it's probably best to leave that out of this one I think. I wasn't alluding to any of that though and don't think it's the main reason people are "revolting" currently.

Cheers Arthur, totally agree to disagree with no hard feelings. I am sure your contacts feel the way they do as they are there experiencing things for themselves and they (just like we all do) will perceive things in a personal way.
All I would hope for is for everyone to remember there is 2 or more sides to every story and yep, whilst the CCP controls a lot of what is put out in the media in China/HK, so too is our media controlled, edited, redacted, censored or just plain omitted as well and if we are unaware of that control then we do not recognise it is happening.

The German soccer team was all over the news recently prior to their game against Japan on the 24th with their hands over mouths protest against their captain not being allowed to wear a one love arm band or such.

Odd then that I have yet to see the following story in our media here... perhaps it was too ironic for some to be shown here. Perhaps yet another example of double standards...

On Sunday 28th, some football fans in Qatar played the same protest at Germany during their match against Spain by covering their mouths and waving posters of World Cup winning German star Mesut Ozil.
Ozil retired from international football following Germany’s early exit from the Russia 2018 World Cup, accusing the national media of making him a scapegoat and suggesting he was subjected to racism due to his Turkish roots – including from the German football federation (DFB).
Fans in Qatar made their message clear, in what were widely seen as accusations of hypocrisy directed towards German football figures regarding their protests and supposedly contradictory treatment of Ozil.

[J Arthur Rank]

FGS and Itsme, isn't the point of a public forum to discuss things and share knowledge?

Obviously I would prefer the thread stay open, not just because i started it but I thought it was something worth talking about. It doesn't seem to be a magnet and that certainly wasn't why I started it.

I asked tichman to clarify and he/she did so. It's ok that we don't like or share those opinions but by discussing them, maybe they can be changed? That would be a better outcome than just getting hot about it and name calling.

No offence meant to either of you fine lads/ladies - I just think the world in general would be a healthier place if we could discuss things as adults and actually hear each other, not just "yell"

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by J Arthur Rank

FGS and Itsme, isn't the point of a public forum to discuss things and share knowledge?

Obviously I would prefer the thread stay open, not just because i started it but I thought it was something worth talking about. It doesn't seem to be a magnet and that certainly wasn't why I started it.

I asked tichman to clarify and he/she did so. It's ok that we don't like or share those opinions but by discussing them, maybe they can be changed? That would be a better outcome than just getting hot about it and name calling.

No offence meant to either of you fine lads/ladies - I just think the world in general would be a healthier place if we could discuss things as adults and actually hear each other, not just "yell"

I'm not getting hot under the collar or name calling, just expressed my view about a particular fella who seems to spread the same rhetoric nonsense of western values, again this my view.
I think you should be aware topics like this will attract all sorts of comments whether you like them or not, it will be up to the Admins if this topic is worthy to stay open or close it if it gets out of hand.
Cheers.

PS: Good on for the Chinese citizens with their protests against their government but unfortunately for them they will always be harshly suppressed by their government leaders.

[PG2]

Just to clarify where this thread is at.

So far, so good. Keep it on topic and leave the insults out of it and the thread will stay open.

Unfortunately, based on other topics, the usual culprits will find this thread and spoil it for everyone. Let's hope not.

[T3rminator]

Spoke to an uncle of mine living in HK, so you could somewhat say its word close from the ground? Anyhow, he reckons the protests have very little to do with the bloody WC. People are angry that there is no end in sight with the harsh lock downs. And seeing what happened in Xinjiang, where residents of the tower that went up in flames could not get out because their doors were chained shut, and fire trucks could not get close enough to the towers due to cars and covid facilities blocking the way, was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Xi has achieved his presidency for life, so its possible that they will start to open up. Its an aging population, and health facilities in rural areas are not great, so it will be interesting to see how the gen Ys and Xs react when they start to see their elderly go through what we've already been through.

[J Arthur Rank]

Itsme - all good mate

PG - cheers, if it gets out of hand though and you need to close it, that's cool.

[J Arthur Rank]

Hey Arnie - I hope they do relax things a little - that would be a small win. Xi, assuming he gives the final say so on what happens, doesn't seem like one to cut much slack though.

Old man Mao has some pretty ****ing big shoes to fill regarding despicable acts but Xi seems up to the task.

Has your uncle said things have got much worse in general for HK since the **** went down there a while back?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by J Arthur Rank

Has your uncle said things have got much worse in general for HK since the **** went down there a while back?

We chat pretty openly through whatsapp. In general the people don't really talk as much politics as we do, but my uncle is an exception . You just need to know your limits (i.e. don't go inciting unrest in the public), but its nowhere near what is being reported by western MSM.

My org have facilities in HK (and a small one in mainland as well), so I speak to some of the guys in the HK office occasionally, a couple of them got hit with the instant lock downs in their apartments. Obviously its not nice, but you stay in, get tested, and get let out after a few days.

It looks like they are already backing down somewhat.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-...fire/101702904

What is also upsetting HK at the moment is some rugby tournament in South Korea. Apparently the HK protest anthem was played "in error" instead of the national anthem

[Citroënbender]

How good is that? Imagine an Australian team triumphing in world something, having the Eureka flag digitally displayed behind them as they mounted the dais…

[FTE217]

Media, there all as bad as each other - east west whatever.....
My ol father inlaw would always shout out watching news being an ol ethnic, "propaganda!!!"
I agree who are we to point the finger the west has done just as wrong but at least people do have more freedoms when push comes to shove unless your a real national threat or to society for sure your locked up.
As we know HK has fallen back into the CCP ruling but early days it sure isn't like being on the mainland barring change of laws.
HK people have had alot of western influence/freedom over the decades and knows alot more than the average never travelled mainlander.
They are in the CCP's bubble, sure the younger ones are being more adventurous but most of the older gen forget it unless they are the veryvery small portion with $ and travel experience.
The old Gen are scared of jabs/needles, reports I saw not even 20% been vaccined.
Thats their concerns in part I suspect And CCP only relying on their own vaccine that is not to the standards of pfizer.

I have been trading/visiting mainland over 20yrs and obviously in contact regularly.
Talking with many middle/upper management younger ones some are in the CCP bubble no doubt about it.
Being the thread starter brought up the lockdown protesting etc here's a copy paste reply yesterday from my question how they are and lockdowns etc :
"Thank you for your greetings and we're all fine now.
I'm back to XXXXX office for normally working since yesterday and my son can be back to school this morning.

To be honest,the COVID is not serious as abroad,but our government take it very strictly once new people affected.
That's the reason why we was blocked at home for some days to avoid more people affected."

Some discussions during my visit I question how they feel about not having their POV - not allowed this not allowed that ? no YT/FB etc but replaced with their mediums controlled by CCP - they say its right for the west is too free.
Maybe they are right ? in some ways we have lost the plot - but I sure wouldn't like our Gov to just come down on my suburb for eg and run amuck, either kick you out or lock you in, take your land etcetc.

Its a mad world but I'm dam happy I'm here.

[J Arthur Rank]

Thanks FTE, some interesting points you bring up there. One thing that stands out is where he/she said "to be honest, the covid is not serious as abroad" etc. That to me looks a lot like the opinion (nefarious or otherwise) the ccp wants the citizens to have and for the vast majority who can't talk to any outsiders such as yourself, probably do.

I certainly don't blame anyone there for wanting to be careful with how they word their correspondences - no doubt it can all be read by big brother. The bit about the west being too free also smacks of indoctrination/propoganda to me and/or towing the party line.

Can I ask how old the person was you emailed with?

I agree 100%, Oz is a pretty ****ing great place to live even over the last few years.