10 years since the last nail in the coffin for Australian vehicle production

[Syndrome]

It was announced on 10th Feb 2014 (missed it two weeks ago)

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota...2017-official/

It took GM 19 months to follow Ford's decision to end local vehicle production. But once GM made their announcement Toyota followed only 2 months later.

It was clear to Toyota that with Ford and GM gone, a lot of the common tier 1 suppliers were not going to be able to survive on only Toyota's volumes. Hence if they were to continue local vehicle production their operation would become an expensive CKD setup. This would be almost impossible to justify considering Thailand was a cheaper environment for vehicle assembly, had a thriving automotive manufacturing industry and a government which supported foreign companies investing in Thailand, unlike the Australian governments.

Unlike Ford and GM, the Toyota change was almost seamless as the imported Camry was a natural transition from the Altona produced models. The only change is the end of the Aurion model.

[Sprintey]

Is anything left of those Tier 1 suppliers now?

One day we will make things again. Here's a great old film of what once went on at Fisherman's Bend, and at least defence looks busy in the present day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9hwW6hjYvA

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Is anything left of those Tier 1 suppliers now?

One day we will make things again. Here's a great old film of what once went on at Fisherman's Bend, and at least defence looks busy in the present day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9hwW6hjYvA

All these are gone:

NATRA
Trico
Bosch
Ajax Fasteners

Just to name a few.

[Hulsty]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Is anything left of those Tier 1 suppliers now?

One day we will make things again. Here's a great old film of what once went on at Fisherman's Bend, and at least defence looks busy in the present day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9hwW6hjYvA

Yup, the two I worked/work for are still going and a number of others I have worked with over the years are still going.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Is anything left of those Tier 1 suppliers now?

One day we will make things again. Here's a great old film of what once went on at Fisherman's Bend, and at least defence looks busy in the present day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9hwW6hjYvA

Amazing how many of those blokes on the production line are wearing a tie.

[Sprintey]

Yep now people wear hi-viz on the weekend, how times have changed!

[aussiblue]

And it seems Ford may not have ruled out pulling out of Australia altogether, See https://goauto.com.au/news/ford/ford...-26/93125.html

[Adamz Ghia]

Rather than push to make better products the market actually wants (and actually available to buy) they were about to just leave.

Can’t understand their way of thinking. Sell 100,000 cars at an average selling price of $50k and that’s $5 billion in revenue, or nearly 5% of worldwide revenue in 2022. 5% is not insignificant.

We might be a small market, but the dollars are there to be made.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Rather than push to make better products the market actually wants (and actually available to buy) they were about to just leave.

Can’t understand their way of thinking. Sell 100,000 cars at an average selling price of $50k and that’s $5 billion in revenue, or nearly 5% of worldwide revenue in 2022. 5% is not insignificant.

We might be a small market, but the dollars are there to be made.

This presumes Yanks can even find us on a map.

"Melbourne? Isn't that in Florida?"

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

We might be a small market, but the dollars are there to be made.

not when the market needs unique development costs. The real disappointment to me was that Head Office never allowed decent export sales. Both Falcon and Territory would have sole well in other RHD countries if we could have supplied in volume. I honestly don't think it would have changed the end result, but just possibly the additional export revenue may have funded a life extension for Barra

[Sprintey]

And this is why, next time, it's so important the carmaker is Australian owned with patriotic management. Next time will occur after the next Pacific conflict.

[fatgas]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

And this is why, next time, it's so important the carmaker is Australian owned with patriotic management. Next time will occur after the next Pacific conflict.

There is no next time; unless reverse engineered alien craft are somehow built in Broadmeadows

[arm79]

This post feels like déjà vu...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by simon varley

The real disappointment to me was that Head Office never allowed decent export sales. Both Falcon and Territory would have sole well in other RHD countries if we could have supplied in volume. I honestly don't think it would have changed the end result, but just possibly the additional export revenue may have funded a life extension for Barra

Would they have sold well?

I don't think exports would have worked. For the most part they would need to be sold at a loss overseas due to our high cost of manufacturing. Other rhd countries also have import taxes and regulations on engine size.

It's my belief that on the whole, due to society becoming ever more selfish, that the general populace could never understand that to have an auto manufacturing industry it needs to be protected and supported. Whether this is with subsidies and tariffs or both and the product needs to be high volume with our small population. Not many could stomach the industry being propped up in that way or imports being taxed to level the playing field.

The end result is what we have.

Having said that the parent companies are very much to blame as well. When the industry was protected in the early days they took advantage. The standard and equipment level of local products slipped well behind global offerings. Once tariffs were removed the public voted with their wallets.

I don't think there is any party that can absolve themselves from what eventually happened.

[fatgas]

This will be sacrilegious, but Ford is done for in Australia. The demise of the engineering team was called out years ago but no one listened. It was but the next stage in unwinding its Australian operation.

Originally Posted by Adamz_Ghia

Rather than push to make better products the market actually wants (and actually available to buy) they were about to just leave.

Can’t understand their way of thinking. Sell 100,000 cars at an average selling price of $50k and that’s $5 billion in revenue, or nearly 5% of worldwide revenue in 2022. 5% is not insignificant.

We might be a small market, but the dollars are there to be made.

Too small a market for enough of a ROI on the spend needed to make such cars.

[kevino]

We have heard or seen no commentary from Ford Ute Aus about the new NVES proposed standards.

Unless I missed it?

[fatgas]

Originally Posted by kevino

We have heard or seen no commentary from Ford Ute Aus about the new NVES proposed standards.

Unless I missed it?

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/in...sked-questions


I'm going through this release and it reads a lot like the US garbage where the manufacturer sets a portfolio wide target they meet by making ultra efficient buzz boxes which leaves their halo products unchanged.

The target is applied nationally on average. Suppliers can still sell any vehicle type they choose but they’ll need to sell more fuel-efficient models to offset any less efficient models they sell.

[Syndrome]

I hope Ford follow GM out of Australia. Good riddance.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

I hope Ford follow GM out of Australia. Good riddance.

If that happens, my chance of buying a brand new Ford will go from 0% to 0%.

[Dr Terry]

I think the issue with Ford exports other than the fact that Detroit probably didn't permit them, was that Ford Aust. didn't do LHD versions.

Back in the early 2000s (pre-GFC) GMH had a huge export market in the Middle East with LHD Commodores, re-badged as Chevys. A one point in time they were exporting more than they were selling locally.

The RHD export market for Aussie Fords was limited to NZ, SA & few Asian countries many of which had restrictions or tariffs on anything over 3 litres engine size.

Dr Terry

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I think the issue with Ford exports other than the fact that Detroit probably didn't permit them, was that Ford Aust. didn't do LHD versions.

Back in the early 2000s (pre-GFC) GMH had a huge export market in the Middle East with LHD Commodores, re-badged as Chevys. A one point in time they were exporting more than they were selling locally.

The RHD export market for Aussie Fords was limited to NZ, SA & few Asian countries many of which had restrictions or tariffs on anything over 3 litres engine size.

Dr Terry

Were the lhd commodores making money though?

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by prydey

Were the lhd commodores making money though?

With Peter Hanenberger at the helm, GMH never had it so good. Between the years 1997 (VT release) & 2008-9 (GFC) they were the most profitable division of GM worldwide. So much so when the GFC hit, GM (US) raided their piggy bank to stay afloat themselves. The numbers were in the $billions.

Dr Terry

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

With Peter Hanenberger at the helm, GMH never had it so good. Between the years 1997 (VT release) & 2008-9 (GFC) they were the most profitable division of GM worldwide. So much so when the GFC hit, GM (US) raided their piggy bank to stay afloat themselves. The numbers were in the $billions.

Dr Terry

Of course, GM USA were still reeling from the decisions made in the 1980s by Roger Smith, that tanked the company. Over reliance on badge engineering, ill-timed downsizing and poor quality half baked products all resulting from good old fashioned Yankee style hubris.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Of course, GM USA were still reeling from the decisions made in the 1980s by Roger Smith, that tanked the company. Over reliance on badge engineering, ill-timed downsizing and poor quality half baked products all resulting from good old fashioned Yankee style hubris.

Totally agree.

Dr Terry

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by prydey

Were the lhd commodores making money though?

With corporate creative accounting one will never really know. Although it was only Toyota Aust. that got a penalty from the ATO for such matters with their Camry exports to places like the UAE. iirc.

[lra]

Imagine, IF ........ Ford were selling FGZ Falcons and and SZ3 Territorys, and Holden selling RWD and AWD ZB Commodores in 2024, how would they be going against the EV imports and Chris Bowen's moonbeam powered cars (which can be recharged overnight by solar panels) after 2025 > 28.

My guess in a highly hypothetical 2024 world........ not very well.

[lra]

I remember reading how, in the early 2000s, Holden LHD Commodores and assembled Alloytec V6s were Australia's biggest and most profitable manufactured exports.
Of course, sending dirt and live animals (and bits of dead animals) overseas was a bigger earner, but where did the money go ?
Buying Daewoo, which was eventually shut down by GM in a corporate game of Hide the $au$age.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by lra

I remember reading how, in the early 2000s, Holden LHD Commodores and assembled Alloytec V6s were Australia's biggest and most profitable manufactured exports.
Of course, sending dirt and live animals (and bits of dead animals) overseas was a bigger earner, but where did the money go ?
Buying Daewoo, which was eventually shut down by GM in a corporate game of Hide the $au$age.

2 things there.

Holden engine plants having been exporting huge numbers since the early 80s. The 4 cyl plant exported millions of units for nearly 20 years.

GM didn't shut down Daewoo, they purchased it got rid of some of the "dead wood" & re-named it GM-Korea. They still produce big numbers of cars to this day, mainly for North American & Euro markets.

Dr Terry

[lra]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

GM didn't shut down Daewoo, they purchased it got rid of some of the "dead wood" & re-named it GM-Korea. They still produce big numbers of cars to this day, mainly for North American & Euro markets.

Dr Terry

OK. While playing corporate Hide the Sausage, we will paint a potato red and call it a tomato. But it will still taste like a potato.
GM don't exist in Europe anymore, and some GM Korea / Daewoo plants were sold to the Chinese, during GMs 'expansion' back to the USA.
We are probably lucky we don't get the 'Holden/Daewoo' Trax and Cruze ****boxes anymore.

[Franco Cozzo]

The Port Melbourne engine plant used to build the 2.8L V6 turbo engine for SAAB as well.

It's the same as the Commodore V6 but 2.8L and single turbo, would have been a great competitor for the XR6 Turbo if someone over at GMH had two brain cells to rub together, they were already building that engine locally