Do we matter to Ford?

Scott · 23-12-2007, 11:29 AM

On the back of the thread about little or no input from Ford to these forums I thought I would start this thread to discuss Private New Car Sales and whether or not you think Ford has an interest in our business.

My perception is that AFF has close to 40,000 members with a distinct interest in the product and the vast majority of those are passionate and loyal supporters of the brand.

It was suggested in that thread that "we are a very little cog in a big wheel" being private buyers and due to that fact, "Ford don't give a flying about us".

Is that true? Is that what Ford think? Is that what AFF'ers think?

So, instead of bogging the other thread down I have started this thread to discuss the role of private buyers in the new car game, AFF's significance (or insignificance) to Ford and to find facts about how other brands interact with their loyal followers in an effort to sure up some fans and the flow on of more private sales.

I've got a bag full of opinions on this but I don't want to start the thread off with my bias so post away and tell us what you think.

ps - This is not a thread for unloading personal gripes, it is here to discuss our place in the FoMoCo machine, its future and its past.

Kryton · 23-12-2007, 11:31 AM

do we matter to Ford?
NO, we dont.
big business and fleet buyers matter, but we dont.
we're just the kids that went to the corner shop to buy $1 mixed lollies.

Jeeepers · 23-12-2007, 11:56 AM

Do we matter? Hell no. We are merely pixels in the profit and loss screen of life.

Geez Louise · 23-12-2007, 12:09 PM

I own a Toyota Rav4. The reason I bought it was because Toyota were the friendliest bunch and actually talked the same to me as they would a "man" buying a car (not being sexiest but you all know they talk to "the little lady" about how pretty a car is not the engine capacity or km's per litre) They also gave us a sweet deal on the price!

In the 4 years that I have had my car, I get at least one letter a month from Toyota, letters to remind me my car service is due and followup calls after my car service.

The next car I buy will be another Toyota. They even gave me advice about buying a secondhand car out of the paper or wherever and told me what to look for. Even said if I didn't want to buy it through them, to bring it down and they would check it over and tell me if it was a good buy or not.

That is my experience dealing with Toyota and reading the support or "lack" thereof that Ford give to the consumer..I doubt I will be buying another Ford in the near future!

That's my 2 cents!

Jeeepers · 23-12-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I own a Toyota Rav4. The reason I bought it was because Toyota were the friendliest bunch and actually talked the same to me as they would a "man" buying a car (not being sexiest but you all know they talk to "the little lady" about how pretty a car is not the engine capacity or km's per litre) They also gave us a sweet deal on the price!

In the 4 years that I have had my car, I get at least one letter a month from Toyota, letters to remind me my car service is due and followup calls after my car service.

The next car I buy will be another Toyota. They even gave me advice about buying a secondhand car out of the paper or wherever and told me what to look for. Even said if I didn't want to buy it through them, to bring it down and they would check it over and tell me if it was a good buy or not.

That is my experience dealing with Toyota and reading the support or "lack" thereof that Ford give to the consumer..I doubt I will be buying another Ford in the near future!

That's my 2 cents!

We have a Toyota Celica '04 in the stable too. And I totally agree. Letter of service reminder, courtesy calls after service to see if we have complaints. All good. From Ford? Nothing.

theunfairadvant · 23-12-2007, 12:50 PM

Toyota & Lexus are the best in service.

Ives · 23-12-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORSMT

We have a Toyota Celica '04 in the stable too. And I totally agree. Letter of service reminder, courtesy calls after service to see if we have complaints. All good. From Ford? Nothing.

I actually got a letter of service reminder from the dealer I bought the car from... but I service it at another Ford dealer. That and some surveys :/

rodderz · 23-12-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I own a Toyota Rav4. The reason I bought it was because Toyota were the friendliest bunch and actually talked the same to me as they would a "man" buying a car (not being sexiest but you all know they talk to "the little lady" about how pretty a car is not the engine capacity or km's per litre) They also gave us a sweet deal on the price!

In the 4 years that I have had my car, I get at least one letter a month from Toyota, letters to remind me my car service is due and followup calls after my car service.

The next car I buy will be another Toyota. They even gave me advice about buying a secondhand car out of the paper or wherever and told me what to look for. Even said if I didn't want to buy it through them, to bring it down and they would check it over and tell me if it was a good buy or not.

That is my experience dealing with Toyota and reading the support or "lack" thereof that Ford give to the consumer..I doubt I will be buying another Ford in the near future!

That's my 2 cents!

I spose it's a lot like other business in a way, word of mouth can be one of the best forms of advertising (and free), but negative word of mouth can be just as harmful and has the opposite effect.

If customer service issues were improved, so would sales. They need to create a name in that the customer/dealer relationship is a good one. There's nothing wrong with the product, its the service.

Scott · 23-12-2007, 12:56 PM

Whilst customer service obviously plays a role selling cars and maintaining the brand, my query with this thread more revolves around whether or not, or how much, Ford value the sales made to the private sector which includes a very large group such as this forum.

Geez Louise · 23-12-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

Whilst customer service obviously plays a role selling cars and maintaining the brand, my query with this thread more revolves around whether or not, or how much, Ford value the sales made to the private sector which includes a very large group such as this forum.

I understand your point and in my opinion, if Ford Motor Co. had any interest in the "Consumer" then it would support sites like this and value the comments and contributions that members put on threads.

But customer service and marketing is a huge part of the car business...and IMO Ford is truely lacking in this regard! So do they care about us?? I would say no!

burnz · 23-12-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

Whilst customer service obviously plays a role selling cars and maintaining the brand, my query with this thread more revolves around whether or not, or how much, Ford value the sales made to the private sector which includes a very large group such as this forum.

ford/holden sale very much depend on dealership,RE: gezze louise "post"
40% of all sales are private.
and yes ford does value your purchase but fail's to listen to your problem's
for with the dealer is not forwarding. i suspect

Powdered Toast Man · 23-12-2007, 01:08 PM

They must have a bit of interest because if all they were after are fleet sales I doubt they would bother with XR6Ts and XR8s. These are more aimed at the private buyer.

But yeah the dealers dont care too much. But my Ford dealer (where I bought my second hand car) actually phones me up near when my service is due and askes me if I want to book it in. So some do have good customer relations skills.

But I know what you mean about Toyota. When I was still living with the folks in a different town to where I am now, I once went to the local Toyota dealer on one of their sale days, recorded my name on something somewhere and then started receiving invitations to see new releases etc. But then my local Ford dealer where I was getting my previous Ford serviced used to do similar, but I was in their books. I had never bought a car from either.

**Polyal** · 23-12-2007, 01:24 PM

Matter very little, but it shouldn't be that way.

The forum, in general, can be defined as the core customers; people who will buy the product regardless (to a degree).

wodahs · 23-12-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

It was suggested in that thread that "we are a very little cog in a big wheel" being private buyers and due to that fact, "Ford don't give a flying about us".

they should and need to
big business and fleet buyers carsend up in the private sector .
and where a large amount dont end up with new cars from ford they do from the chance over from fleets but wont if there is a better product out there
and fleet buyers work on resale not just the original purchase

Falcon_Crazy · 23-12-2007, 01:51 PM

Fleet market - heard of Novated leases people - its BIG business with more and more folk now choosing their own vehicle rather than the "fleet Manager".

I know people in Ford and they DO listen. For years, I have provided feedback directly to them an they respond well. Ok we have a forum and there may not be too much interest from Ford posting here, but do not think they do not read it.

If you want to provide product input, put it down in writing and send direct to Ford or perhaps we should formally invite Ford (if we have not already) participate in the forum.

Thats my Sunday arvo input - time for the pub

Paxton · 23-12-2007, 02:03 PM

They do listen and read our feedback, but they don't show the slightest interest.

In the Territory Forums, we whinged, moaned and groaned about the position of the clock in the TS and Ghia. Recently, when Ford re-priced and re-optioned the Territory, they moved the clock. It now sits in the ICC, not with the sunglasses holder.

I prefer it where it is in my SX. This is my only example where Ford have listened to our feedback.

Bossxr8 · 23-12-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

They do listen and read our feedback, but they don't show the slightest interest.

In the Territory Forums, we whinged, moaned and groaned about the position of the clock in the TS and Ghia. Recently, when Ford re-priced and re-optioned the Territory, they moved the clock. It now sits in the ICC, not with the sunglasses holder.

I prefer it where it is in my SX. This is my only example where Ford have listened to our feedback.

It was done for cost cutting, plain and simple. Would save a dollar or 2 per car, cause they have been on a big mission to reduce costs. The fact that most people didn't like it where it was was just a added bonus.

Serial_Fool · 23-12-2007, 03:04 PM

NO, we don't matter to Ford because the majority of the car owners here are second hand car owners.

4Vman · 23-12-2007, 03:18 PM

They're interested in you if you're looking to buy a new car..
Ford would be happy if all cars disintegrated after 4 years so you had to go buy a new one.
They have no interest in secondhand cars or resale value.

fmc351 · 23-12-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

They're interested in you if you're looking to buy a new car..
Ford would be happy if all cars disintegrated after 4 years so you had to go buy a new one.
They have no interest in secondhand cars or resale value.

Yeah, but if the Commodore lasts 7 yrs, then Ford is gonna disappear pretty damn quick with that attitude. Or have to sell at 4/7 the price of a new Commodore. If they did that they may as well admit they are sub-par, and Holden make the better car.

I mean, we arent talking a cheap TV here.

Powdered Toast Man · 23-12-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

They're interested in you if you're looking to buy a new car..
Ford would be happy if all cars disintegrated after 4 years so you had to go buy a new one.

Modern ones do don't they? Some disintegrate after 6 months

RIPGMH · 23-12-2007, 03:43 PM

Its a business, they exist to make money. If providing good customer service is identified as crucial to business sustainibility then you will matter to them. If they ran it like some kind of warm fuzzy clubhouse they probably wouldn't be here today.

fmc351 · 23-12-2007, 03:48 PM

As said its poor business practice if they just ignore 2nd hand purchasers.

If a brand new purchaser knows that Ford dont care about the 2nd owner, it makes the car harder to sell when you want to upgrade. If that were so, Id look at a company that does not have that reputation. I want it gone for good dollars respective of the condition when I want it gone, not later rather than sooner, at a very disadvantaged price just to offload it.

Bucknaked · 23-12-2007, 03:58 PM

Does McDonalds care about it's customers? Do banks care about their customers?

I'm not sure I understand the concept of being loyal to big business. Especially when your paying them $$$$, and then you continue to give the $$$$. They have no loyalty to us, why should we be any different. After all, they have your money, they aint paying you.

Rodp · 23-12-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Does McDonalds care about it's customers? Do banks care about their customers?

I'm not sure I understand the concept of being loyal to big business. Especially when your paying them $$$$, and then you continue to give the $$$$. They have no loyalty to us, why should we be any different. After all, they have your money, they aint paying you.

Precisely. My next car isn't automatically a Ford. I'm biased towards them but I'm not going to part with $45k just because of a badge.

The Mondeo looks like a beaut car and the turbo version is high on my must see when I'm about to buy again list.

However, the servicing leaves a lot to be desired. I was charged for a reco on my handbrake ($150) during its warrany period because adjustments in prior servicing made it work for a couple of weeks. The reco made no difference. I had to kick and scream to have my aircon fixed under warranty (after it had just expired) because it was a 2 day job and the last 3 times I had taken it in for service they complained that they didn't have enough time to complete the job so they 'will do it next service'.

So right now the Mondeo will have to be streets above any other manufacturer I'm considering to offset the lousy vehicle servicing that I've experienced.

Btw, Ultratune adjusted my handbrake about 3 months ago (without even having to ask them) for no additional charge and it's better than it's even been.

MNM96 · 23-12-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

However, the servicing leaves a lot to be desired. I was charged for a reco on my handbrake ($150) during its warrany period because adjustments in prior servicing made it work for a couple of weeks. The reco made no difference. I had to kick and scream to have my aircon fixed under warranty (after it had just expired) because it was a 2 day job and the last 3 times I had taken it in for service they complained that they didn't have enough time to complete the job so they 'will do it next service'.

Btw, Ultratune adjusted my handbrake about 3 months ago (without even having to ask them) for no additional charge and it's better than it's even been.

This is not 'wholly' Fords fault. When I had a drama with my car under warranty, I booked it in for repair and recieved a loaner. When it was repaired, I picked it up. If it wasn't correct, I returned and demanded satisfaction.
If you don't have the nuts to do the same......

However, Ford should ensure their 'Customers' are treated properly by their 'Dealers'!

bcr2734 · 23-12-2007, 05:43 PM

i went into a ford dealer 3 weeks ago to look at a r spec typhoon. i couldn't find a salesmen witha idea of what they were nor were they interested in me because i went in there with my standard truck gear on. ( singlet thongs and shorts). the same dealership has hyundai and i went to the salesmen an ask about the New elantra. Well he loved it when i saaid cash and i had the car delived in my driveway on friday lunchtime. The tool ford rep hasn't rang me until yesterday when the hyundai salesmen told him about me and me owning a sick T3. The tool rang my phone and whated a idea what i wanted.

I told him to come out to the property and help me wash my B double and help me polish the tanks over xmas and i would go and test drive the the car. You can guess what happened.

Rodp · 23-12-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNM96

This is not 'wholly' Fords fault. When I had a drama with my car under warranty, I booked it in for repair and recieved a loaner. When it was repaired, I picked it up. If it wasn't correct, I returned and demanded satisfaction.
If you don't have the nuts to do the same......

However, Ford should ensure their 'Customers' are treated properly by their 'Dealers'!

No loaners available and I can't do my job without a car, the aircon was stuck on cold so it wasn't that big a deal because I was putting it in for repair during the warmer months.

While a Ford service centre is a franchise, they're representing Ford. After dealing with 4 different service centres and being very unhappy with the lot, the Mondeo better be a ripper of a car for me to endure those service centres again.

Taxman · 23-12-2007, 11:41 PM

Ford view the owners of their vehicles here in Australia as a money milking machine. One only has to look at the prices they charge for parts and mechanical work. I have an Explorer, all the parts I have required so far are made in the US or alternatively have to be sourced from the US. Ford Australia is outrageous with the prices they charge. Some of you may well say it is the transport costs or the exchange fluctuations.

That being the case if Ford Australia really and truely cares for us poor little Ford owners, please explain how I can get genuine Ford parts from the States air freighted here usually in well under a week for roughly 25% of what the local dealer wants for the exact same genuine ford part.

I am sorry but I believe that all Ford care about me is how quick they can empty my wallet or run my credit card up to the max - pity I like their product, but then again are any of the other manufacturers any different?

DJL351 · 08-01-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxman

Ford view the owners of their vehicles here in Australia as a money milking machine. One only has to look at the prices they charge for parts and mechanical work. I have an Explorer, all the parts I have required so far are made in the US or alternatively have to be sourced from the US.

No! REALLY!!!! An imported car requires imported parts??? Feck no. Ban FoMoCo now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxman

Ford Australia is outrageous with the prices they charge. Some of you may well say it is the transport costs or the exchange fluctuations.

Well yes, yes it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taxman

That being the case if Ford Australia really and truely cares for us poor little Ford owners, please explain how I can get genuine Ford parts from the States air freighted here usually in well under a week for roughly 25% of what the local dealer wants for the exact same genuine ford part.

Hold on to your hat.....

Ford Aust buys the part from Ford US. Ford US, not really caring about Aust charges Ford Aust more for the part than their own US dealers.

Now, add frieght. The part now lands in Melb (Vic). Ford Aust, then wants to cover their costs, plus make a dollar. So they on-sell to the local Aust dealer, who then does the same to you.

And, for the record, it is the same for ALL brands. Try the prices for some of the imported Toymotas.