Bathurst

R0BD0G · 24-12-2007, 09:26 PM

was wondering if anyone can post pics of dick johnsons XE or if anyone can tell me why the texaco sierras were disqualified ages ago

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 24-12-2007, 10:02 PM

While I dont have any pics of dicks XE , The texaco sierras were disqualified for Illegal rear guard modifications. Appperently they were slightly pumped for clearance or something ! sounds like another case of "Oh my, holden lost again, lets pic something on the fords and cheat them out off a win ! Brocky came 3rd in his Mobil commodore so he was given the win! Some looser tried to give me heaps at the boozer on base later that night , got angry after I let him know that I saw 2 fords win and he cant do anything about that , so he tried to thump me . That was fine with me so I smashed him a few times and kicked his *** out of the boozer!

devilcv8 · 24-12-2007, 11:45 PM

While the initial finding was illegal fuel it was determined the sierra's had illegal wheel arches.

"After 6 months in court it was found that both Texaco Sierra's passed the fuel analysis but were found guilty of having wider than permitted wheel arches and Peter Brock was awarded his 9th 'win' being the third place getter."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

Appperently they were slightly pumped for clearance or something ! sounds like another case of "Oh my, holden lost again, lets pic something on the fords and cheat them out off a win !

so it's ok to cheat if it's only slightly is it? Similar to the early years of V8 supercars where ford ran lightened body shells and panels, but that wasn't cheating because it was only slight.... yeh right... Every team will interpret the rules to enable the best performance within the rules. Just ford have had a couple of high profile "oops we got caught"

anyway, merry xmas

gtxb67 · 25-12-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilcv8

so it's ok to cheat if it's only slightly is it? Similar to the early years of V8 supercars where ford ran lightened body shells and panels, but that wasn't cheating because it was only slight.... yeh right... Every team will interpret the rules to enable the best performance within the rules. Just ford have had a couple of high profile "oops we got caught"

the problem was that they were cleared to race in the previous 8-10 rounds so the eggenberger team considered them legal
the scrutineers knew they were illegal but let them race anyway - basically saying you can win race but we will take it off you
the mercedes team one year before had illegal roof antennas and were told to fix them on friday or go home - the eggenberger team should have been given the same option but the local authorities effectively cheated them by letting them race with guards they knew were illegal

ELGT4me · 25-12-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilcv8

While the initial finding was illegal fuel it was determined the sierra's had illegal wheel arches.

"After 6 months in court it was found that both Texaco Sierra's passed the fuel analysis but were found guilty of having wider than permitted wheel arches and Peter Brock was awarded his 9th 'win' being the third place getter."

so it's ok to cheat if it's only slightly is it? Similar to the early years of V8 supercars where ford ran lightened body shells and panels, but that wasn't cheating because it was only slight.... yeh right... Every team will interpret the rules to enable the best performance within the rules. Just ford have had a couple of high profile "oops we got caught"

anyway, merry xmas

Do you remember a certain Mr P Brocks Commodore being caught with illegal front strut towers? (They had been cut & shut!!) It was like sectioning an eggshell, remove the middle bit, hey presto lower centre of gravity!!! But they too were only cheating "a little bit"

GK · 25-12-2007, 10:12 PM

I really liked the Sierras, mean cars. They kept the blue oval in the game and that's what mattered to me when Ford got the fuel frights and pulled the V8. Took us years to catch up again.

GK

devilcv8 · 25-12-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

Do you remember a certain Mr P Brocks Commodore being caught with illegal front strut towers? (They had been cut & shut!!) It was like sectioning an eggshell, remove the middle bit, hey presto lower centre of gravity!!! But they too were only cheating "a little bit"

I remember the incident, all to do with rule interpretation. same as the Larry bar was illegal but he argued that it was within the rules. The sheet of steel behind the rear seat in the phase 4 (I know it didn't race but Marsden had it installed and was going to argue the point if the scrutineers picked it up).

ELGT4me · 26-12-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilcv8

I remember the incident, all to do with rule interpretation. same as the Larry bar was illegal but he argued that it was within the rules. The sheet of steel behind the rear seat in the phase 4 (I know it didn't race but Marsden had it installed and was going to argue the point if the scrutineers picked it up).

Yes, I remember Larry saying on national tv "just because it isn't in the rule book, it dosen't mean it can't be done" (I miss Larry!!!) I think the lightweight body shells you are talking about was the result of a 6 cylinder car being presented to Cams for homologation. The 351 car weighs a little bit more than a 6 cylinder car!!! Do you remember when Mr C Lowndes was driving for Hrt & he got caught with an illegal hand throttle , that was set up to improve his launches off the line? We could argue (debate?) about this all day, but in view of the last 2 v8 Supercar champions & how a "team" effort by 4 cars was required to win it, you & I both know which manufacturer gets away with more than the other. Don't even get me started on how a "tyre fitter" from Wyong could purchase the entire Hrt Racing enterprise, & then admits he doesn't own the cars, the personnell or the transporters? (I know they are only cheating a "little bit")

Quasi · 27-12-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

While I dont have any pics of dicks XE , The texaco sierras were disqualified for Illegal rear guard modifications. Appperently they were slightly pumped for clearance or something ! sounds like another case of "Oh my, holden lost again, lets pic something on the fords and cheat them out off a win ! Brocky came 3rd in his Mobil commodore so he was given the win! Some looser tried to give me heaps at the boozer on base later that night , got angry after I let him know that I saw 2 fords win and he cant do anything about that , so he tried to thump me . That was fine with me so I smashed him a few times and kicked his *** out of the boozer!

Yes, from memory it was uncle Tom who lodged the initial protest.

He actually picked on all the sierra teams, including DJR, and the list included virtually everything on the cars, including diff gearing. A channel 7 reporter actually said to Walkinshaw (after he stated what was in the protest) "That's basically everything on the Sierras'....and Tom responded "Oh, there's a few bits left".

Mind you the easiest way to look at it is that the Texaco Ford Sierras were disqualified because they were in front of Brock

gtxb67 · 27-12-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quasi

Yes, from memory it was uncle Tom who lodged the initial protest.

He actually picked on all the sierra teams, including DJR, and the list included virtually everything on the cars, including diff gearing. A channel 7 reporter actually said to Walkinshaw (after he stated what was in the protest) "That's basically everything on the Sierras'....and Tom responded "Oh, there's a few bits left".

Mind you the easiest way to look at it is that the Texaco Ford Sierras were disqualified because they were in front of Brock

****inshaw protested all the sierra's in 1988, then pretended to be a nice guy by withdrawing it on the winning sierra (if indeed a sierra won)
the strange thing is that the only top car to be found illegal was ****inshaw's. luckily it was dropped off the jacks early in the race and suffered a dnf so apart from not getting disqualified it was quickly forgotten by the media

Quasi · 28-12-2007, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

****inshaw protested all the sierra's in 1988, then pretended to be a nice guy by withdrawing it on the winning sierra (if indeed a sierra won)
the strange thing is that the only top car to be found illegal was ****inshaw's. luckily it was dropped off the jacks early in the race and suffered a dnf so apart from not getting disqualified it was quickly forgotten by the media

Yeah, I had a nagging feeling it had been the year after. It was indeed a Sierra that won in 1988......Longhurst/Mazera, and then Johnson/Bowe in 1989 (where they led every lap after passing Brock the first time down Conrod).

Casablanca · 28-12-2007, 09:46 AM

who cares honestly this debate will go on forever over whos fault it is becuase noone wants to see their cars get disqualified it all comes down to dont cheat and you wont get caught.

:

its not that hard people

boss-290 · 24-12-2007, 10:07 PM

1984 - Oran Park

As for the Texaco Sierra's, I'm not sure why they were disqulaified. Something technical I would imagine.

Here's a piccie -

henry351 · 24-12-2007, 11:04 PM

Maybe you will like this except for the end

:
Sounds so sweet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2Gai...eature=related

R0BD0G · 24-12-2007, 11:12 PM

seen it....ive got that one in my favourites. thanx for the info. but some more pics would be appreciated

24-12-2007, 11:32 PM

The Texico cars had illegal fuel in them, says at the end of that race in the Bathurst Turbulant years Video/DVD

MethodX · 24-12-2007, 11:46 PM

The front guards on the Texaco Sierra's has been pumped and lipped.
In Aus they held up the rule book.
I was happy for P Brock, as i was never a Sierra fan.

INJECTED_250 · 25-12-2007, 11:25 AM

jump on you tube and theres a few vids of dick johnsons greens tuff on a hot lap (the one into the tree) sounds awesome before the tree

robjh80 · 26-12-2007, 05:45 PM

At the end of the day, Motor Racing is all about getting manufacturers "everyday attainable cars" out of the showrooms and into customers garages, one of the catalysts in achieving this end result is the sport of Motor Racing itself and all the money, glamor and advertising that goes with it.

Even Formula 1 is no exeption to this, if Renault are winning the championship then people conclude that their everyday products are superior to other brands and hence they sell more cars.
Ferrari themselves are commonly referred to as a "Formula 1 team that makes a few other cars on the side."

The Australian Touring Car Championship to this effect is no different, the locally made product is predominantly the Holden Commodore and the Ford Falcon and any dent in their popularity such as not being absolutely and inherently successfull or competitive in the sport itself and being made to look "inferior" in the eyes of the public is not going to be good for the local manufacturers, jobs will be lost and the economy would suffer.......or so they would have us believe.

This is why to this day we only have Commi's and Falcons going round and around and around....."they are in essence a totally and abolutely protected species."

The Sierra's as well as others that have made an entrance over the years into the "Great Race" are of course not locally made and as such any success they have is quickly and ruthlessly going to be squashed so as to not show up the locally made products.

This is ultimately why Sierra's, Jaguar's, BMW's and such like are now not permitted to compete in our locally produced and carefully constructed and construed event........only Commi's and Falcon's for us simple minded folk, dont give the masses any ideas that anybody else's product "may be superior in any way whatsoever."

The Sierra's were simply "far too successful in this protected environment".......it simply would not do!!.....be gone with them said the powerbrokers behind the scenes, banish them from the kingdom forever....."and so they were", and never again since those dark days has any other international product been allowed to show it's wares again and quite possibly..... or should I say "probably" never will...."tis very sad indeed."

ELGT4me · 26-12-2007, 06:37 PM

I suppose not being able to buy a Sierra in Australia, would have nothing to do with having them "banished" from our premiere motorsport event?

photn · 27-12-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

I suppose not being able to buy a Sierra in Australia, would have nothing to do with having them "banished" from our premiere motorsport event?

quite wrong mate. there are plenty around. just gotta look in the right spots.

Try looking for a Saphire 4x4 as they have a Cosworth Turbo Engine, also mk4 Escorts and even some Sierra Cosworths. there are quite a few available. though not cheap, they are available.

My dream is to one day have one in the garage with some nice boost.

Heres a good one located in NSW Gosford.
Link2

Or if you have the Dosh and livei n QLD here is this one,

Link1

But as i said, Saphires are a real bargin as they have the same engine ideally as the RS500, give or take a few specifications. but the engine itself if modified correctly will reach 700HP. dont believe me, go to your Boarders book shop and pic up a copy of Performance Ford Magazine (UK edition) and those cars are always in there.

But anywho.. enough drooling from me. back to staring. Link3

ELGT4me · 27-12-2007, 08:04 PM

Well I tried to buy one when they were new. I was told they did not meet ADR requirements, but I could "sneak one through the back door "(ie N.Z.). MY thoughts on this was if I had a decent Sierra that went hard ,& was reliable, why would I sell it, let alone sell it to someone in Australia?

:

photn · 27-12-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

Well I tried to buy one when they were new. I was told they did not meet ADR requirements, but I could "sneak one through the back door "(ie N.Z.). MY thoughts on this was if I had a decent Sierra that went hard ,& was reliable, why would I sell it, let alone sell it to someone in Australia?

:

true true not many where brought in and as you said they didnt really meet ADR's. BUT alot of the ones that are here now are Personal Imports and they pop up from time to time. They are a good buy.

Not sure where you are located honestly but if you are in NSW sydney metro the Classic Ford Club have Cruises on all the time and they are great to go to, as they have a few RS500 Sierras with serious boost, they have a MK4 Escort Cosworth 4x4 with some nice power, Also have a mk2 RS2000 escort with a YB Cosworth Engine that is a real hoot and also a mk2 Cortina with a YB cosworth Engine Running 26PSI of boost making 271RWK in something that weighs like 700kg.

but anywhoo...

R0BD0G · 27-12-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

quite wrong mate. there are plenty around. just gotta look in the right spots.

Try looking for a Saphire 4x4 as they have a Cosworth Turbo Engine, also mk4 Escorts and even some Sierra Cosworths. there are quite a few available. though not cheap, they are available.

My dream is to one day have one in the garage with some nice boost.

Heres a good one located in NSW Gosford.
Link2

Or if you have the Dosh and livei n QLD here is this one,

Link1

But as i said, Saphires are a real bargin as they have the same engine ideally as the RS500, give or take a few specifications. but the engine itself if modified correctly will reach 700HP. dont believe me, go to your Boarders book shop and pic up a copy of Performance Ford Magazine (UK edition) and those cars are always in there.

But anywho.. enough drooling from me. back to staring. Link3

wow...if i had 50k id love a sierra

4Vman · 26-12-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robjh80

At the end of the day, Motor Racing is all about getting manufacturers "everyday attainable cars" out of the showrooms and into customers garages, one of the catalysts in achieving this end result is the sport of Motor Racing itself and all the money, glamor and advertising that goes with it.

Even Formula 1 is no exeption to this, if Renault are winning the championship then people conclude that their everyday products are superior to other brands and hence they sell more cars.
Ferrari themselves are commonly referred to as a "Formula 1 team that makes a few other cars on the side."

The Australian Touring Car Championship to this effect is no different, the locally made product is predominantly the Holden Commodore and the Ford Falcon and any dent in their popularity such as not being absolutely and inherently successfull or competitive in the sport itself and being made to look "inferior" in the eyes of the public is not going to be good for the local manufacturers, jobs will be lost and the economy would suffer.......or so they would have us believe.

This is why to this day we only have Commi's and Falcons going round and around and around....."they are in essence a totally and abolutely protected species."

The Sierra's as well as others that have made an entrance over the years into the "Great Race" are of course not locally made and as such any success they have is quickly and ruthlessly going to be squashed so as to not show up the locally made products.

This is ultimately why Sierra's, Jaguar's, BMW's and such like are now not permitted to compete in our locally produced and carefully constructed and construed event........only Commi's and Falcon's for us simple minded folk, dont give the masses any ideas that anybody else's product "may be superior in any way whatsoever."

The Sierra's were simply "far too successful in this protected environment".......it simply would not do!!.....be gone with them said the powerbrokers behind the scenes, banish them from the kingdom forever....."and so they were", and never again since those dark days has any other international product been allowed to show it's wares again and quite possibly..... or should I say "probably" never will...."tis very sad indeed."

While you make some good points the sierra raced under Group A rules.. which esentially allowed manufacturers to build homologation specials to race, the Australian car industry couldnt compete on the world stage under group A so new rules and a 2 make series were introduced that the "common aussie man" could identify with.
The current V8SC championship is run under our own set of rules unique to our locally made vehicles for 2 reasons, primarily fan popularity and distantly second to support and promote our locally made products and car industry.

Bossxr8 · 26-12-2007, 09:24 PM

Cheating was rampant across every manufacturer in the Group A days, its just wether you got caught or not that counted. Everyone was pushing the boundaries of legality, its just that the Europeans let that stuff go. Then they came to Bathurst and the Australians tried to follow the rule book, so they got caught.