North South Pipeline

[xbgs351]

The Victorian Brumby Government is currently constructing a pipeline that will take water from the from Lake Eildon over a mountain range to Melbourne. The pipeline will be 75 km long and pump 75 billion litres of water every year.

The 75 billion litres of water is meant to come from water savings gained by updating the irrigation system downstream of Lake Eildon. These savings are meant to be shared between Melbourne, the irrigators and the environment. The catch for the irrigators and the environment is that Melbourne will start taking the water before any work on water savings is made. Even when all of the water saving measures are implemented it is highly unlikely that they will ever save the amount of water that is required. What else is irritating is that the Victorian Labour Government refused to sign the national water agreement that would have paid for improvements to the same irrigation system.

Melbourne will be taking water from one of the driest catchments and pumping it to its own catchment area which is one of the wettest. Country towns in the region have been on Stage 4 water restrictions for years while Melbourne is only on Stage 3a. Melbournes water storage currently stand at 39% and Lake Eildon is at 24% and falling fast. Many irrigators in the region have 0% water allocation and the most any are recieving is 29%.

[galaxy xr8]

I hear you mate, it has been like this for a while now, Melbourne people really need to take a leaf out off our book and save water while they still have some, and thus would stop them taking it from us, but as long as their park's and garden's look green, that's all that really matter's, don't worry about the infrastructure and the economy that will be hugely effected by this drought, and it will affect them in their pocket's as well they just don't know it yet, bring on rain in '08.

[XHUTE6]

Is the pipeline fibreglass?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by XHUTE6

Is the pipeline fibreglass?

No the pipe will be steel with a plastic coating and cement lined. The pipe is prob meant to come from Melbourne, but most likely it'll come form QLD as the plant for manufacturing this pipe is not complete yet.

[[Tonko]]

This is BS, theres still not enough water here so why should it all go down there? Take a look at how many abandoned farms there are around here and further north...
And i'll bet they'll lower the restrictions in Melbs aswell once its up and running.

[Daymoe]

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

[Elks]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

Because a project like that would take over a decade to build Pollies are short term people who gain more from 4 short term fixes in 12 years than 1 x 10 year fix. They work on a 3 year cycle.

Yes it would create thousands of jobs and fix the thing. But the last WA election the liberal candidate (I don't remember who his is) suggested there version of the same pipeline from the Kimberly. He went from the next Premier to gone in two weeks. The beige people that run our state have not made a strong decision in 7 years, do you think without pressure that they would make one now.

Written spoken and authorized by myts on behalf of the people who love old fords party...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

Here's a silly fact for you: A 2 meter diameter pipe from Brisbane to Melbourne would take approximately 5500 mega-litres of water just to fill it alone!
The sugerloaf reservoir in Melbourne currently holds 45,000 mega-litres or 48% capacity..!

[thexyking]

This water allocation and Murray Darling system control issue is a nonsense. The reason that Victoria didn't want to sign up is because it would have to reduce the amount of water available out of the Murray darling system for its own farmers. The problem has been created by NSW and Queensland over allocating the available water (Cubby Farms, anyone?) and now the crunch has come with not enough water (and no liklihood of enough) to meet the allocations. The Queensland and NSW state governments just handed the problem back to deal with, Victoria said we don't have the same issues, why should we act against the interest of our farmers?

Interestingly, in September the Victorian Gov]'t and the Federal Gov't did reach an agreement but Howard wouldn't sign.

We've all just got to use less, that it the answer.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

Apart from the obvious statements about Qld being in drought too, while water falls big time in Cairns for a couple of months (11ft can fall in Tully in one month, and next to nothing for the next 11), any excess water would best be sent to parts of Qld that need it first. Because its Qld water not Victorian.

Originally Posted by thexyking

This water allocation and Murray Darling system control issue is a nonsense. The reason that Victoria didn't want to sign up is because it would have to reduce the amount of water available out of the Murray darling system for its own farmers. The problem has been created by NSW and Queensland over allocating the available water (Cubby Farms, anyone?) and now the crunch has come with not enough water (and no liklihood of enough) to meet the allocations. The Queensland and NSW state governments just handed the problem back to deal with, Victoria said we don't have the same issues, why should we act against the interest of our farmers?

Interestingly, in September the Victorian Gov]'t and the Federal Gov't did reach an agreement but Howard wouldn't sign.

We've all just got to use less, that it the answer.

And Victorias use of the Murray doesnt effect SA? Its just unfortunate for Victoria they are at the wrong end of that river system, and not where the bulk of the water falls. If the water flowed north, you can bet Qld would be missing out in favour of Victoria.

Originally Posted by mik

i worked on a farm for 3 months in merridin WA years ago, and its a real eye opener as to the difference in water use between someone in the city and someone in the bush on tank water, most city people would`nt dream of a 2 minute shower to save their lives, as far as desalination efficient or not, its a good back up we need water point blank no one really knows what the weather is gunna do, that said i blame the pollies for our problems now , we have known for for 15/20 years that our infrastructure for water was only good for 20 million people now were hitting 21 million mark it`s panic stations, industry uses way too much water as well.

While the last treasurer tells us to have more kids. They keep talking of Australia being able to support a population in excess of 50 million. Ha! It might be a great country with huge land mass, but it doesnt have anywhere near enough water for 50 million people. The current conditions would be everyday conditions, even with better management and improved catchment areas.

[thexyking]

And Victorias use of the Murray doesnt effect SA? Its just unfortunate for Victoria they are at the wrong end of that river system, and not where the bulk of the water falls. If the water flowed north, you can bet Qld would be missing out in favour of Victoria.

SA draws the short straw whichever way it goes, more and more Adelaide has to do the eqivalent of getting water out of the S bend. I wionder where Coppers gets its water from (the beer tastes too good for it come from the Murray).

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by thexyking

This water allocation and Murray Darling system control issue is a nonsense. The reason that Victoria didn't want to sign up is because it would have to reduce the amount of water available out of the Murray darling system for its own farmers. The problem has been created by NSW and Queensland over allocating the available water (Cubby Farms, anyone?) and now the crunch has come with not enough water (and no liklihood of enough) to meet the allocations. The Queensland and NSW state governments just handed the problem back to deal with, Victoria said we don't have the same issues, why should we act against the interest of our farmers?

Interestingly, in September the Victorian Gov]'t and the Federal Gov't did reach an agreement but Howard wouldn't sign.

We've all just got to use less, that it the answer.

I strongly suspect that the Brax government didn't sign the national water agreement because it wouldn't have allowed Melbourne to steal water from north of the great dividing range, water that would flow into the Murray River. What makes matters worse is that the national water agreement would have provided funds to upgrade the Goulburn irrigation system.

It's not surprising that Howard wouldn't sign the ammended agreement, as it would have treated Victoria diffrentlly to all of the other states. How doyou think the other states would have reacted to that.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

Total dam storage in Brisbane at the moment is around 24%.

Where were you getting the water from here?

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

Total dam storage in Brisbane at the moment is around 24%.

Where were you getting the water from here?

Cairns and all that keep getting heaps of rain on the news.

What about De-cellination plants or what ever they are called?

[Donut King]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Cairns and all that keep getting heaps of rain on the news.

What about De-cellination plants or what ever they are called?

They use desalination here on Hamilton Island for a large part of the water supply, and as far as I know its very inefficient, takes 100L of seawater to make 20L of drinking water, and even then the water is the worst tasting garbage I've ever had to drink.

An installation to supply a city vs a small island is likely to be a bit different, but it will no doubt be a similarly inefficient process.

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

What water?

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

Makes perfect sense, I mean, we're only on level 6 water restrictions.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Makes perfect sense, I mean, we're only on level 6 water restrictions.

No need to get picky, Cairns got 140mm of rain over 24 hours, which is 140mm more of rain than i got.

Anyway about those plants, maybe they can get some people working on their efficiency levels?

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

No need to get picky, Cairns got 140mm of rain over 24 hours, which is 140mm more of rain than i got.

Anyway about those plants, maybe they can get some people working on their efficiency levels?

Yep. and maybe someone can invent time travel.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Yep. and maybe someone can invent time travel.

Stop trying to bait me.

[DanXR6T]

The biggest problem with people's suggestions of let's build a pipeline from areas where it floods is that flood events usually happen over one week period, in which case you are moving MASSIVE amounts of water in a short period of time, OR you build MASSIVE dams which will be utilised for one-two months of the year, and in most cases will be very expansive in size and shallow.

Also 75,000 megalitres isn't THAT large an amount of water, about the size of the average water resevoir here in QLD.

For example the company I work for is looking to acquire a license for 50,000 megalitres per year, although this in the NT. This is all to grow food, most of which is sold into Victoria.

I will start taking deposits now for the water and pipeline contributions... Water shares start at $1,000,000 if anyone is interested... I expect I'll need about 200,000 partners.... :P

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by DanXR6T

The biggest problem with people's suggestions of let's build a pipeline from areas where it floods is that flood events usually happen over one week period, in which case you are moving MASSIVE amounts of water in a short period of time, OR you build MASSIVE dams which will be utilised for one-two months of the year, and in most cases will be very expansive in size and shallow.

Also 75,000 megalitres isn't THAT large an amount of water, about the size of the average water resevoir here in QLD.

For example the company I work for is looking to acquire a license for 50,000 megalitres per year, although this in the NT. This is all to grow food, most of which is sold into Victoria.

I will start taking deposits now for the water and pipeline contributions... Water shares start at $1,000,000 if anyone is interested... I expect I'll need about 200,000 partners.... :P

Melbourne used 369 Gigalitres in 2007, so the 75 Gigalitres from north of the dividing range is 20% of that.

[superroo]

Originally Posted by DanXR6T

Also 75,000 megalitres isn't THAT large an amount of water, about the size of the average water resevoir here in QLD.

Ok it's not that much water, but's it's alot to pull out of a dam thats already near empty.

The pollies seam to do stupid things in regard to the water at eildon. First they spent alot of money to fix the dam wall so they could get it back up to 90+%, but now they are going to pump so much water out of it that it isn't going to get back up to even close to that level.

It's really disapointing. I rember skiing at bonnie doone many many moons ago, now futer generations will only get to ride motor bikes there :(

Cheers

[troppo]

One thing that has always amazed me about living in Darwin is you would be flat out finding a single building that even has guttering, let alone a tank to collect it. Having come from an area of SA that is not on Adelaide's supply and which has been increasingly saline since the 70's I can remember growing up with slogans like "turn it off" and "every drop is precious".

Not so in the NT it seems. I watched my neighbor yesterday washing her dog. She turned on the yard tap flat out and left it running for a good hour and a half. Of every bucket full of water that came out that tap, about 3 drops would've gone into the dog washing while the rest ran down the path (which is angled so the water doesn't run off onto the lawn) around the corner of the house, onto the road and down the stormwater drain. I was tempted to say, why don't you just fill your bath and put your dog in that - like I do, but water isn't really a problem here.

My solution - government subsidises people getting rainwater collection equipment (gutters and tanks) fitted to their houses in monsoon areas across northern Aus. It would all be excess water to us as it currently goes straight to sea. It could then be collected annually and sold wherever they like to offset the cost of the additions. Even a 5000 litre tank per house in Darwin isn't a huge amount of water but it's better than none. Oh and a 5000 litre tank would be overflowing about 3 weeks into wet season

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by troppo

One thing that has always amazed me about living in Darwin is you would be flat out finding a single building that even has guttering, let alone a tank to collect it. Having come from an area of SA that is not on Adelaide's supply and which has been increasingly saline since the 70's I can remember growing up with slogans like "turn it off" and "every drop is precious".

Not so in the NT it seems. I watched my neighbor yesterday washing her dog. She turned on the yard tap flat out and left it running for a good hour and a half. Of every bucket full of water that came out that tap, about 3 drops would've gone into the dog washing while the rest ran down the path (which is angled so the water doesn't run off onto the lawn) around the corner of the house, onto the road and down the stormwater drain. I was tempted to say, why don't you just fill your bath and put your dog in that - like I do, but water isn't really a problem here.

My solution - government subsidises people getting rainwater collection equipment (gutters and tanks) fitted to their houses in monsoon areas across northern Aus. It would all be excess water to us as it currently goes straight to sea. It could then be collected annually and sold wherever they like to offset the cost of the additions. Even a 5000 litre tank per house in Darwin isn't a huge amount of water but it's better than none. Oh and a 5000 litre tank would be overflowing about 3 weeks into wet season

Darwin has heaps of water and very few people, so why not use the water? A 5000 litre water tank costs about $1200 and stores about $2 to $3 of water.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Darwin has heaps of water and very few people, so why not use the water? A 5000 litre water tank costs about $1200 and stores about $2 to $3 of water.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with using water if/when I want to. Maybe it's just that old habits die hard, but I also don't like seeing perfectly good water being washed out to sea while so many are complaining about not having any.

As for cost, the price will go up with demand, this stuff is cleaner than bottled mineral water (which I tested @ 20 ppm contamination v's rainwater @ 6 ppm)

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by troppo

rainwater @ 6 ppm)

Good clean air up there I assume?

[troppo]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Good clean air up there I assume?

Probably, but that particular test was out of my sister's rainwater tank in Adelaide in early '02.

[kempster1]

Originally Posted by troppo

One thing that has always amazed me about living in Darwin is you would be flat out finding a single building that even has guttering, let alone a tank to collect it. Having come from an area of SA that is not on Adelaide's supply and which has been increasingly saline since the 70's I can remember growing up with slogans like "turn it off" and "every drop is precious".

Not so in the NT it seems. I watched my neighbor yesterday washing her dog. She turned on the yard tap flat out and left it running for a good hour and a half. Of every bucket full of water that came out that tap, about 3 drops would've gone into the dog washing while the rest ran down the path (which is angled so the water doesn't run off onto the lawn) around the corner of the house, onto the road and down the stormwater drain. I was tempted to say, why don't you just fill your bath and put your dog in that - like I do, but water isn't really a problem here.

My solution - government subsidises people getting rainwater collection equipment (gutters and tanks) fitted to their houses in monsoon areas across northern Aus. It would all be excess water to us as it currently goes straight to sea. It could then be collected annually and sold wherever they like to offset the cost of the additions. Even a 5000 litre tank per house in Darwin isn't a huge amount of water but it's better than none. Oh and a 5000 litre tank would be overflowing about 3 weeks into wet season

Have a read of the cyclone area building rules and you will find out why there are very little homes in Darwin with guttering and tanks.
It is not as simple as it is in southern states.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by kempster1

Have a read of the cyclone area building rules and you will find out why there are very little homes in Darwin with guttering and tanks.
It is not as simple as it is in southern states.

I have. I can also say from seeing first hand that when guttering is used here, it needs to be able to cope with larger volumes (and therefore weight) of water, as well as additional fixings. Underground tanks and problem solved.
Ideally, you would have everyone's houses hooked up to a central collection, similar to sewage or stormwater networks.

Having said that, I realise the proposal is not even close to viable the way things are, but who knows in the future?