If this is a sign of trouble, then Ford Aus are in deep dodo

whynot · 09-10-2008, 10:43 PM

I was chatting to the fleet contract manager in the car park at work today. He asked me how the new G6E was going. He then stated (in a nice way) that I was the last of a dying breed of Ford lovers. Apparently, there are only two FG Falcons in the fleet (and this is a medium sized fleet). They are ordering so few Ford vehicles, they are seriously considering not even bothering to invite Ford to tender next year. Ford’s fleet prices are too high, their resale is excessively low, and no one on the user-chooses list wants one.

The plebes (who are not allowed to have a vehicle of choice) are given either a 4WD diesel, a Commodore Ute, or a Hyundai i30 diesel (see me with fingers down my throat).

An interesting part of the conversation from the fleet dude was a conversation that he had with a major fleet supplier. (I know that this is now a third hand conversation, but, ...) Apparently, the lease fleet sector have been taking a bath on the resales presently available on the BF Falcon. While they are doing their dough on the Falcon, they are more than making up for it with anything that has four cylinders. According to this lease company’s figures, the cheapest motoring available is a two year old Falcon. Their low price more than offsets the extra fuel they use against any four cylinder.

I have a horrible feeling that my next car is going to be a Camry.

(signed,
Rather Depressed)

Scott · 09-10-2008, 10:49 PM

Why wouldn't your next car be a 2yo Falcon?

XR Martin · 09-10-2008, 11:11 PM

Id rather an I30 Diesel than a Camry....

Dezza · 10-10-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Id rather an I30 Diesel than a Camry....

I'd rather syphilis than a Camry :P

snappy · 10-10-2008, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezza!

I'd rather syphilis than a Camry :P

It's certaintly not good news for ford . It seems that there doing it really tough. I like the fg now not so much in the begining but can't understand why people don't want them. But these are things ford need to adress i suppose.

Can anyone one explain to me why fords ba/bf's resale is so low what causes this .

loltastic · 10-10-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

It's certaintly not good news for ford . It seems that there doing it really tough. I like the fg now not so much in the begining but can't understand why people don't want them. But these are things ford need to adress i suppose.

Can anyone one explain to me why fords ba/bf's resale is so low what causes this .

Possibly the fact that they're riddled with problems. The FG is no different.

Perana · 10-10-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

Possibly the fact that they're riddled with problems. The FG is no different.

huh?!?! Sure they have a few known issues, but hardly riddled with problems..

Buddy 1 · 11-10-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loltastic

Possibly the fact that they're riddled with problems. The FG is no different.

I have to say I had a 05 Territory & it had Many Issues ( mostly small things but rather Annoying) & some major Issues as well.

Then I Purchased a BFII XR6 Ute & I have not had any Issues with it at all apart from the Exhaust was touching the Body & making a Noise.

Ford fixed that no Problem.

Compared to the Territory the Falcon is a much Higher Quality vehicle (personal Experiance) just take a look at the Territory section & you will see Many Owners with the same Issues.

So the low resale is a Joke as the BF Falcons & in Particular the BFII's were well made.

And the Territory may be loved by Many Women however it is more of an effort to Drive, Park or perform U Turns in so the only plus for women is the amount of room inside & the fact they feel safer sitting up high.

And yes the Falcon is in trouble because of the Petrol prices in the most part however my Ute gets good Economy on the Hwy & not bad around town so you do not actually save that much in the end compared to a 4 cylinder & of course a Territory uses a fair bit more than a Falcon as it is 300 kilos heavier for a start.

Elks · 10-10-2008, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezza!

I'd rather syphilis than a Camry :P

Because with the right care, you could one day be rid of the syphilis.

The Yeti · 10-10-2008, 06:57 AM

we didnt invite ford last time, not on resale (although very bad) but on service put simply it sux they arnt interested in servicing properly or fixing things 1st time at warranty I have the last ford in the fleet, Mazda are our now prefered supplier I'm a ford man but I made the desigion change becasue I was tired of bashing my head against a wall 12 months on not one of my guys has complaind about the service at mazda and the instances of the vehices beign returend for warranty has droped by 70%

sleekism · 10-10-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yeti

we didnt invite ford last time, not on resale (although very bad) but on service put simply it sux they arnt interested in servicing properly or fixing things 1st time at warranty I have the last ford in the fleet, Mazda are our now prefered supplier I'm a ford man but I made the desigion change becasue I was tired of bashing my head against a wall 12 months on not one of my guys has complaind about the service at mazda and the instances of the vehices beign returend for warranty has droped by 70%

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

ADSXR8 · 10-10-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

Mazda sells to anybody, they just dont have fleet discounts.

**Peuty** · 10-10-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

You "thort" wrong, whipper snapper.

Stefan · 10-10-2008, 11:03 AM

Falcon / Commo poor resale is not new it's always been bad always will. Our fleet supliers actively discourage anyone buying a Ford or Holden for that reason. They Encourage Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda.

I bought my BA XR6 with leather and premium sound with 50K on the clock 3 years old for $16K. Equivilent Subaru Liberty (which my wife wanted) was $35K+. You can imagin which was a better car to lease new 3 years ago.

Six years ago I sold a mitsubishi

Wally · 11-10-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Falcon / Commo poor resale is not new it's always been bad always will. Our fleet supliers actively discourage anyone buying a Ford or Holden for that reason. ...........i

Talking to a fellow businessman the other day and he's ordered quite a few Holden Sportswagons for his technicians and sales reps.

The Yeti · 10-10-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I thort Mazda didn't sell to fleets?

Not on the same scale and as were only a 15 car pa fleet ford didnt bend over backwards to help (nor did Holden or Toyota) so the discounts offered by mazda were very simular with out being called a dedicated fleet, this also give us the option to look arround on a car by car basis the oldes 3 vehicels are 2 BT50's (great utes) and a mazda 3 all are not 18months old 1 ute has been back once under warranty the other 2 have only been back for PM servicing as have the newer cars all I can say is for a small fleet like us they are great

LTDterri · 10-10-2008, 08:39 AM

This is an interesting thread because the company I work for runs a medium size fleet and we poor plebs who are field based book vehicles through the car pool system each and every day....my point to all this is last week as I was walking through the car park I seriously began to notice the lack of Falcons in the yard, 18 months ago it was full of XT's, Falcon Utes, Fairmonts. Last week I realised 3 fords the rest all Toyota's. So if Ford looses all its fleet sales which lets face it keep it afloat, then I agree Ford may be in for some deep Doo Doo

whynot · 10-10-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDterri

So if Ford looses all its fleet sales which lets face it keep it afloat

The interesting thing is ... Ford is treating the fleet purchasers with disdain.

They know the Falcon has its resale value in the gutter. So, their response is to charge full price on the new Falcons “to support the resale value”. The ex-fleet Commodores have similarly poor resale value, however, GMH give good fleet discounts. Toyota gives exceptional fleet discounts, particularly on the vehicles they have to sell (e.g. Kluger).

In my mind, there are a number of issues for Ford, particularly with the Falcon.

1. They don’t advertise their product well (e.g. an EGas Falcon is cheaper to run than a Corolla). Instead, they have their stupid **** adds that soft sells.

2. They have lost their fleet sales with their pricing structure.

3. They have real issues with quality control. And when you go back to the dealer, the dealer ****es you off even more. (Mine has been back seven times now.)

4. The Falcon is female unfriendly. (If you want an example of a female friendly car, look at the Territory. The girls just love it.)

Ford can correct two issues here immediately. One is to get real with their prices. Two is to sack their advertising firm.

wulos · 10-10-2008, 11:39 AM

I know of a fair number of people in places that you would suspect are through and through Ford men that are quite disgusted with where the Blue oval has gone.
The warning signs appeared a number of years back, dare I say it with GP's departure from FoA, they have done precious little to feed the fire, or even maintain the rage for that matter.
There is little sense in rehashing what we see as problems, as the true problem lays somewhere between the Ford Dealerships, and Ford manufacturing, with neither side grasping the concept that they are both responsible for how we, the buying public view their product.
The worst thing is that atm, I don't see much of a change happening unfortunately.

Scott · 10-10-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulos

... the true problem lays somewhere between the Ford Dealerships, and Ford manufacturing, with neither side grasping the concept that they are both responsible for how we, the buying public view their product.

Nuff said...

autolover08 · 10-10-2008, 03:02 PM

It's not just falcons suffering scary resale figures, commodore, maxima, camry V6's magnas and 380's all suffer equally. Anything with a 6cyl at moment nobody wants.
A combination of cheaper mainstream imported 4CYL vehicles like Honda, Mazda, Subaru and even VW. Fuel prices and the user chooser company vehicles have dented the mainstream falcon and commodore company vehicles.

The interesting thing will be if the Aussie dollar keeps falling like it has recently, imported japenese vehicles will become more expensive while exporting locally made vehicles is more profitable.

Rock ape · 10-10-2008, 05:15 PM

This is a very sad thread. Im starting to fear for the Falcons future. Ford has a huge image problem and they need to fix that and fast. Ford Australia open your eyes.

GTP534 · 10-10-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAGTp001

This is a very sad thread. Im starting to fear for the Falcons future. Ford has a huge image problem and they need to fix that and fast. Ford Australia open your eyes.

I feel the same way. The FG is a great car but the message is not getting across. From Bill Bourke's time in the 60's and then the 70's Ford was bold; remember "Going Ford is the going thing"? Ford was in tune with what the market wanted. Some spark was re-ignited with Geoff Polites but in the past couple of years it all seems to be downhill. Now it's as though they're ashamed to even call it a Falcon.

DanielXR8 · 10-10-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP534

I feel the same way. The FG is a great car but the message is not getting across. From Bill Bourke's time in the 60's and then the 70's Ford was bold; remember "Going Ford is the going thing"? Ford was in tune with what the market wanted. Some spark was re-ignited with Geoff Polites but in the past couple of years it all seems to be downhill. Now it's as though they're ashamed to even call it a Falcon.

Good car + ordinary build quality + bad dealer network = no sales.

MR_SIDO · 10-10-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Good car + ordinary build quality + bad dealer network = no sales.

Alright, I am getting sick of people flaming dealers like this. I am a Dealer Principal and I can tell you that MOST Ford Dealers are working their guts out trying to make the dealer experience a positive one. To say "bad dealer network" to me is extremely offensive.

Unfortunatly like most things in business you cannot please everyone and every now and then you have some issues that reflect the dealer in a bad light. Its the old story, you will recieve 10 bad stories to 1 good one, why do you think the news is mostly bad? because no-one thrives on good stories, only bad ones.

Re-sale values are crap at the moment and most of the issue is to do with high new vehicle volume over the last 5 years and many low kilometre Falcons, Commodores, Aurions, Camry's and soon Corolla's coming back into the market. With Corolla selling 3000 per month, wait and see how many of these are back in the market in 3 - 4 years time, it will be a dollar a dozen. And the manufacturers couldn't give a rats.

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you guys as I am only a Ford Dealer, hey....what would I know?

4Vman · 10-10-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

Alright, I am getting sick of people flaming dealers like this. I am a Dealer Principal and I can tell you that MOST Ford Dealers are working their guts out trying to make the dealer experience a positive one. To say "bad dealer network" to me is extremely offensive.

Unfortunatly like most things in business you cannot please everyone and every now and then you have some issues that reflect the dealer in a bad light. Its the old story, you will recieve 10 bad stories to 1 good one, why do you think the news is mostly bad? because no-one thrives on good stories, only bad ones.

Re-sale values are crap at the moment and most of the issue is to do with high new vehicle volume over the last 5 years and many low kilometre Falcons, Commodores, Aurions, Camry's and soon Corolla's coming back into the market. With Corolla selling 3000 per month, wait and see how many of these are back in the market in 3 - 4 years time, it will be a dollar a dozen. And the manufacturers couldn't give a rats.

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you guys as I am only a Ford Dealer, hey....what would I know?

Well said.

fmc351 · 10-10-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

Alright, I am getting sick of people flaming dealers like this. I am a Dealer Principal and I can tell you that MOST Ford Dealers are working their guts out trying to make the dealer experience a positive one. To say "bad dealer network" to me is extremely offensive.

Unfortunatly like most things in business you cannot please everyone and every now and then you have some issues that reflect the dealer in a bad light. Its the old story, you will recieve 10 bad stories to 1 good one, why do you think the news is mostly bad? because no-one thrives on good stories, only bad ones.

Anyway, I would say that most of these words will be wasted on you guys as I am only a Ford Dealer, hey....what would I know?

In their defence mate, theres been a lot of posts on here over the years, clearly outlining faults, and the service received. Many others posting similar experiences, or at least experiencing the fault that required service.

Yeah, there is the odd person who tells us one day of doing massive burnouts, dragging one hoon or another and then complaining about the 'terrible' diff noise and the dealers response a few months later in another thread. They expect it to not only be bullet proof, but idiot proof to boot.

On these forums, there are also stories of brilliant service from some dealers. But they are only the owners of the vehicles, what would they know?

Read some of the threads on it, theres too many for the claims to be just whingers, theres quite a few people who are genuinely disappointed. Its a pity the good ones get tarred with the same brush.

Rodp · 11-10-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

Alright, I am getting sick of people flaming dealers like this. I am a Dealer Principal and I can tell you that MOST Ford Dealers are working their guts out trying to make the dealer experience a positive one. To say "bad dealer network" to me is extremely offensive.

They weren't working particularly hard to keep me in a Ford. I visited about 10 dealers in Sydney to try and buy an XR5 - ended up giving up. Most laughed when I said I had an XR8 to trade, one was downright insulting - best offer, 10k trade, the other offer 6k trade. The dealer I bought my BA XR8 through, I was happy with their service and after sales, but they couldn't even offer me a trade-in price for the vehicle they had sold to me 3 years before!

First VW dealer I visited sold me an R32 within 5 minutes of being on their yard. Put in for its 15k service yesterday and I was exceptionally impressed on how they treated me and the car. Absolutely night and day compared to many years of Ford servicing.

Had a very similar experience looking for an AU3 XR8 years ago, ended up getting a VT SS.

Given those experiences I've had in the past with Ford dealers, I'm not even sure if I'd consider a new one again. I've owned around 15 Fords in the past, half of those being new and my experience has been in steady decline and hit rock bottom last Ford outing.

DOC · 11-10-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

Alright, I am getting sick of people flaming dealers like this. I am a Dealer Principal and I can tell you that MOST Ford Dealers are working their guts out trying to make the dealer experience a positive one. To say "bad dealer network" to me is extremely offensive.

Unfortunately like most things in business you cannot please everyone and every now and then you have some issues that reflect the dealer in a bad light. ?

I am sure you run a good shop, there is a survey here some where that over time shows 75% of people either do not trust the service dept or wont kick them into the future

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...92#post2356292

without going over my horror stories with service Dept's, ( to a point where i do not want to know about ford service unless vital ).

It nearly seems the new car is placed up the front of a dealership as it's primary focus, and he service dept / horror stories are hidden out the back behind closed secret doors.

This seems arm about face in many ways, and if the focus was placed on customer service / back up / support and building trust then any dealer would be beating customers away with a stick, and any clued up sales people would be feeding of those happy people.

Magna · 11-10-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_SIDO

Its the old story, you will recieve 10 bad stories to 1 good one, why do you think the news is mostly bad? because no-one thrives on good stories, only bad ones.

but the horror stories are peoples experiences and if it can happen to them it can happen to others.