Carsguide cheque book journalism

[XWGT]

How can any editor defend the Carsguide blatant biad towards Holden after the publication of this article

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...falcon_coffin/

How the hell can the economic downturn only effect the Falcon and not the Commodore? How can the Falcon be held out as the inefficient vehcile of its age with no mention that its more efficient than the Commodore?

Absolute disgrace

[Stefan]

It's because unlike the Commodore there seems to be no plans for an alternate energy Falcon.

That's the way I read it.

[mcnews]

When these guys get as much attention from Porsche, Ferrari and all the really exotic brands do you really think they give a toss about Fords and Holdens, lol. The thought that they would have an ingrained bias that they would air in journalism is pretty fanciful. Just because the Blue One-Eyed Faithful can just see an attack just shows their own blindness.

[RG]

What idiots, just because Holden are "looking" at an alternate energy Commodore does not mean that there will ever be one. Especially now with the impending demise of GM and the current world economic situation.

I also think they have forgotten that Ford is moving to an apparent "greener" V6 and a new V8.

Biased fools.

[DJM83]

Had to post on there

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by XWGT

How can any editor defend the Carsguide blatant biad towards Holden after the publication of this article

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...falcon_coffin/

How the hell can the economic downturn only effect the Falcon and not the Commodore? How can the Falcon be held out as the inefficient vehcile of its age with no mention that its more efficient than the Commodore?

Absolute disgrace

Maybe if you take the blue glasses off and read it again, you might see the point of the article.

"but any carmaker which is serious about a long-term future in Australian manufacturing must turn green."

It's a claim that the Falcon won't be able to compete without a 'green' car. Holden have alternative energy V6's and V8's on the drawing board and Ford apparently do not. Has nothing to do with the efficiency of the current range.

It's an opinion piece and based on the slide of the large sedan market due to rising fuel prices, is probably a reasonable opinion to form. If, years down the track, Holden have a hybrid Commodore and Ford are running a petrol V6 and petrol prices soar, which vehicle would you expect to come out on top?

[XWGT]

[QUOTE=Rodp]Maybe if you take the blue glasses off and read it again, you might see the point of the article.

"but any carmaker which is serious about a long-term future in Australian manufacturing must turn green."

QUOTE]


Err as far as I know Ford is the only manufacturer to offer a full time dedicated LPG vehcile right now, and has for sometime now. Thats tangible repeatable innovation in the market, not semi perfected technology that is still a few years away to say the least.

Again, no mention of an EGAS Falcon.............yet teh Falcon is doomed as it has no viable alternate energy platform on the drawing board....?

[maccamom]

Some bad news for the red lion though...

Holden misses out in Best Car awards

November 14, 2008 - 1:11PM

Imported models will dominate Australia's Best Cars in 2008 - the awards decided by the nation's motoring clubs.

Only two locally-produced cars are among 36 finalists spread across 12 categories announced Friday, with three models vying for the top award in each category.

Versions of the Ford Falcon have made the final cut in two categories, best large car and best prestige car, while the Toyota Aurion AT-X is also in the running to be named best large car.

Audi did best to have five models among the finalists, while Honda and Mitsubishi each had four.

Local car producer Holden failed to have any car selected, either from its Australian-built range or its imported models.

Best Cars judge Mark Borlace said today's buyers took a range of things into account when buying a new car.

"More than ever, people look to be scrutinising a range of issues when contemplating their new car purchase, and the Best Cars program is the only judging system that looks at a number of factors which people take into account," Mr Borlace said.

"People want good, reliable information to use in making their choice and the Best Cars awards gives them the ability to make informed purchasing decisions against a number of criteria."

Mr Borlace said judges had a tough time choosing the finalists this year.

"There are a lot of good cars on the Australian market," he said.

The winners will be announced on December 3.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by maccamom

Some bad news for the red lion though...

The Australian best car awards are not worth a warm bucket of spit in my opinion. THe problem is not just the journos involved but the entire scoring system. They claim it is more relevant because it considers depreceiation and fuel burn, insurance etc. when deciding the winner. This is supposed to be what buyers do. The problem is it puts too much weight on these issues and fails to look at the quality of the car primarily, which is what journos are supposed to do (the average person can add up for themselves thanks!).

It also seems to go for the newest model launched since these often have the best value based on features (how many cupholders again sir?) , the 380, falcon and aurion have all won when launched new.

Still, the pretty mediocre holden line up wouldn't have helped them none....

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Err as far as I know Ford is the only manufacturer to offer a full time dedicated LPG vehcile right now, and has for sometime now. Thats tangible repeatable innovation in the market, not semi perfected technology that is still a few years away to say the least.

Again, no mention of an EGAS Falcon.............yet teh Falcon is doomed as it has no viable alternate energy platform on the drawing board....?

LPG is still largely derived from a fossil fuel source, therefore isn't immune to rising oil prices in the future.

We're talking about the relative futures of each company years from now, not next year.

[AusM]

Are Ford ahead in the diesel range? Certainly seems so in Europe...

[Dezza]

It ****es me off when they always suggest that hybrids are the only way to go. When it's on the road fair enough, but production and disposal of hybrids is a massive task. Those nickel batteries in them waste that much energy to produce, and then again to dispose of them.

[Mr Hardware]

LPG anyone?
Ford has had the marvellous green fuel as an extremely cheap option on its new cars for ages.
Russell is right. Biased fools.

[Fordman1]

Well Holden are the kings of spin aren't they ?

Have Ford recently tried to win the media over with a bit of 'salesmanship' ?

I think not.

Maybe Marin needs to spin some 'good news' to the media so Holden and Toyota doesn't have everything their way. In the end Ford has it self to blame for this 'so called bias'.

Get out there and 'let the propaganda fly' I say ! Pound the media with the spin and eventually they'll start to publish positive stories about FoA also.

BTW: I think they're right about Falcon, it's 'time' is coming soon. Holden have remained very tight lipped about the future of Commodore except to say they are looking at 'alternate powertrain studies'. Maybe the media should ask some good probing questions about the future of Holden in Australia.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Well Holden are the kings of spin aren't they ?

Have Ford recently tried to win the media over with a bit of 'salesmanship' ?

I think not.

Maybe Marin needs to spin some 'good news' to the media so Holden and Toyota doesn't have everything their way. In the end Ford has it self to blame for this 'so called bias'.

Get out there and 'let the propaganda fly' I say ! Pound the media with the spin and eventually they'll start to publish positive stories about FoA also.

BTW: I think they're right about Falcon, it's 'time' is coming soon. Holden have remained very tight lipped about the future of Commodore except to say they are looking at 'alternate powertrain studies'. Maybe the media should ask some good probing questions about the future of Holden in Australia.

They have, Marin is talking about a car built in Australia and sold in over 60 countries. Bill Osbourne said the Falcon will reach 7l/100 ecconomy in the coming years. And every FPV release comes with a bonus GTHO rumor.

[Swordsman88]

Well before i even read this i saw the author....Paul Gover. Big problem there, major tool at best and while i woulnd't call him holden biased per se, he is notorious for writing uninformed drivel.

This story would have some, i mean some, merit if it was based on some truths. It ain't, that's the problem. Firstly, the 'green' commodore, oh yeah, a cylinder shutdown V8 is real green (been around for years, doesn't save that much fuel), a commodore that burns more than pretty much all competitors at present...real green. I know it is about the future product plans, but anyone in teh motoring world which believes holden's 'we are working on...' stories in a fool.

Holden have claimed since the VE launch to be working on hybrid, DI, Displacement on demand, lpg, diesel and hydrogen....oh yeah, sure they are. This is the same mob that said in 2006 there woudl a be a diesel commodore by 2008 - then the engineer in charge (now retired) said, ah no their won't. This was two MDs ago - now they say if lucky a diesel by 2010 - right when ford will be putting in territory and possibly (though not likey) falcon. Also claiming a liquid LPG by 2010 - same as Ford with the Duratec V6 LPG.

There is no way holden is working on all the stuff theya re saying, and if they are, not all will make it to production. They just laid off engineers! They also leaked a DI alloytec would be out in 2009 - but instead they have dropped power and torque and still can't match falcon...... I remember they said DOD could be on V8s back when VZ came out....holden fans won't get it till next year....

Ford doesn't comment on development plans, Holden does. This is why people thing they are getting new stuff but they ain't, history shows HOlden is BEHIND ford in most drivetrain technology back as far as EA!!! If GM is putting a halt to global projects how the hell are they going to fund develoment of a hybrid commodore......even for a global market.

Gover is an idiot, plain and simple. I might bother to actually read the story if it was based on a modicum of fact

:

[GK]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

LPG anyone?
Ford has had the marvellous green fuel as an extremely cheap option on its new cars for ages.
Russell is right. Biased fools.

Agreed.

LPG Falcon is cheaper to run than a Prius, if you factor in the purchase price.

Which family car would you want? Try driving a Prius over the Snowys with your gear and kiddies. Aaahhhh No!

The ones who buy a Prius anyway are probably those who pat themselves on the back for saving the world and never go on a good old driving holiday anyway, they probably fly, then hire a petrol car when they get to their destination.

OR

Their second car is a Falcon or Commodore!

Okay, okay, I'm done. LOL!

GK

[uranium_death]

I wish there was an alternative to Carsguide, with somebody who was neutral.
It's sad when a person who is meant to "inform" readers is merely sharing his views.

Gover infuriates me, and people swallow his doodie unequestionably.

Maggots like him should be supporting Australian products rather than helping them die.

Unjustified, negative comments like this only breeds fear and uncertainty in prospective buyers, meaning Ford may lose business.

[Quicksand]

Ford have had an eGas Falcon for years...isn't this counted as alternate energy?

lol i loved this quote:

Holden has a plan for an alternate-energy Commodore, and has already begun the 'hybridisation' of Australia's favourite family car with moves to green its V6 and V8 engines

LOL

[SVD]

the media has been Holden based ever since the release of the VE, if they weren't how could holden of justified over $1bn worth of development on their own.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by SVD

the media has been Holden based ever since the release of the VE, if they weren't how could holden of justified over $1bn worth of development on their own.

Goes way longer than this...it's sad, because Ford release great products, but morons like Gover fail to help it along, instead speaking of "how great" Holden is and how much in trouble Ford is.

I hope somebody hits him with a G6E and knocks some realisation into him that it's a fecking nice car, and deserves to be supported!

[xe351]

for those who think there is not bias, will we ever see a headline that says "final nail in commodores coffin"??? deep down inside you know the real answer

[outback_ute]

It would be good if he could get his facts straight - eg Nissan stopping local production in 1986...

[irlewy86]

Oh yeah because Holdens plan is really believable with GM axing product development and looking like going belly up by Christmas.

As for Holdens Green Commodore will that be anything like the ECOmmodore, that the CSIRO had a big dummy spit about earlier this year because after helping Holden develop it they sat on their hands.

Here's a blast from the past:

Originally Posted by www.holden.com.au

Not for production, this mid-sized hatch concept demonstrates the strength and versatility of Holden's design talent to a worldwide audience and emphasises its ability to react swiftly to changing customer demand

So where is the Torana, where are these, magic hybrids, oh thats right the future.

Call me cynical but Holden has designed an engine since the VT so what exactly are they doing to go green. %&*@ all.

They had a hybrid spoon fed to them. A hybrid made from locally sourced components and they shelved it. They have made their bed now they will have to sleep in it.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by XWGT

How can any editor defend the Carsguide blatant biad towards Holden after the publication of this article

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...falcon_coffin/

How the hell can the economic downturn only effect the Falcon and not the Commodore? How can the Falcon be held out as the inefficient vehcile of its age with no mention that its more efficient than the Commodore?

Absolute disgrace

The Commodore platform is a relatively new platform that is used overseas and is also exported from Australia as complete cars, making any green initiative far more viable, over many more units sold.

The Falcon is an older platform sold only in Australia in ever smaller numbers, making any investment, much harder to justify.

Common sense really. Doesn't mean Falcon might not go green with the Rudd bailout, but in normal circumstances, I think you would expect Falcon would be the first to go.

Not sure there needs to be any chequebook involved to work that out.

Really the Commodore is in a stronger position when you are talking about a US car company looking around at what to chop. Doesn't mean the Falcon isn't good, but Ford US, absolute determination to never let Falcon be exported, always mean't it had one foot in the grave. Ford management is Falcons biggest problem, not this journalist.

Dan

[phillyc]

Holden are the NSW Labor Party. Spin, spin, spin. No substance, but everyone has believed them for years...

Finally, people are waking up to this. Unfortunately, this is yet to occur with the Holden myths and lies.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The Commodore platform is a relatively new platform that is used overseas and is also exported from Australia as complete cars, making any green initiative far more viable, over many more units sold. (ZETA PLATFORM HAS BEEN CANNED)

The Falcon is an older platform sold only in Australia in ever smaller numbers, making any investment, much harder to justify. (ALSO SOLD TO NZ)

Really the Commodore is in a stronger position when you are talking about a US car company looking around at what to chop. Doesn't mean the Falcon isn't good, but Ford US, absolute determination to never let Falcon be exported, always mean't it had one foot in the grave. Ford management is Falcons biggest problem, not this journalist. (GREAT TO BE SOLD OFF TO KEEP THE IMPORTANT US OPERATION RUNNING)

Dan

See above

[DanielXR8]

Daniel both Holden and Ford Aust are American company's. If Ford US says jump, then Ford Australias job is to ask how high. If they say no exports, then no exports and when they say stop making Falcon and call it a day, then someone will give them the keys and turn out the lights. Falcon is not an Australian owned car, its just designed and made here.

I know this is a fan site and for one reason or another we all love Fords, but in the end this is a business. Ford management, shareholders and the Ford family are not as concerned about Falcon or Ford Australia as many on here may be. They never have been. An objective look at the Falcons history, is a list of missed opportunities and forced limitations on the car, all coming from Dearbourne. Falcon should have been a much better car, sooner in its production life, should have had more investment and should have been the basis of a highly successful export program, but the political powers in Ford have and will always say no. They doomed one of the best products they had in that class. I can remember this was a topic in the Blackwood Falcon days. The bottom line was always spend just enough to keep in competitive and send the profits back home (the US).

Holden is in a stronger position, because for whatever reason, they were at least able to get the brass to approve exports. Now thats no guarantee as unfortunately they are experts at making a class of car, the world increasingly doesn't want, but parent GM's own woes aside, the local division is in a stronger position. The Commodore V6 and four speed, is no match for a FG Falcon, but it is a car with a more international market. That might make the difference as to what the parent companys are prepared to spend on it to make it green or give it a slightly longer shelf life. Falcon needs more investment in engines and technolgy to remain competitive and will always cost more money to be adapted to whatever the rest of the Ford world is using. Thank God Polites had the foresight and sales skills to convince the Ford brass to approve Territory. I really think thats what made the difference in us having a Falcon at all, at this point. Holden will cost money too, but less so, thanks to the fact the VE does use engines and other components found in other parts of the GM world. Its a much more global car, zeta cancellation or not.

The game plan is obvious. In the big scheme of things its Ford US survival first, Ford Europe second and everywhere else third. I'm pretty sure most Ford Aust employees are aware of that, its the fans who can't come to grips with it.

Enjoy your car and hope that one of the two yank companys can survive another five to ten years, so we can still get a local muscle car new to enjoy at a reasonable price. Frankly at this point, I just hope one of them survives long enough for me to save enough money to get another V8 in my driveway, before they are no more.

Dan

[Paull]

Many years ago, 1978 to be precise, some A grade clown motoring journo, his name eludes me now, made an incredible prediction. He made the statement that by 1981 Holden would be the shining car company of Australia with all of its products leading the sales race, especially so the Commodore.

He also went onto to say that Toyota would be second, Chrysler somehwere after and Ford, well as far as he was concerned, Ford wouldn't even be in the race - read Chrysler's actual fate.

Roll forward a few years (1981/1982) and Holden had been caught out cheating. That is, GMH had been 'selling' as many cars to all of its Dealers (not real sales to the public) with the instruction to 'register' all of these vehicle, namely the Commodore. Why so, they were deseperate to stay in front of Ford in the sales race. Fact was though, the Falcon XD/XE was now outselling Commodore and would continue to do so for a number of years to come. In essence, the move to the smaller VB Commodore got all of the scumbag journo's excited but did nothing for the motoring public. Hence falling behind the Falcon.

Therefore, just because some halfwit un-informed journo makes a statement about the future and a biased one at that, does not make it true.

[Bossxr8]

As if Holden will make a hybrid, the dollars it would cost would nowhere near match the sales volumes.

Ford have a diesel, direct injection V6, liquid LPG and a small car on the way. How are they not preparing for the future. They are well ahead of where Holden are. What do they have, a dod V8 that will still burn over 13 litres per 100 km and might save you 1 litre per 100km (whopdedoo) and what else. An E85 compatible V6 that you can only fill at 3 servos Australia wide. Gee, that will save the environment. Ethanol production burns more CO2 than petrol does anyway. Hybrid Commodore won't happen, and the moron exec who said it would be ready in 2 years probably doesn't even have a job anymore, either that or he has a size 12 stuck up him for making such stupid statements.