The empire strikes back (another hypothetical)

flappist · 18-03-2009, 02:36 PM

I was talking recently with some ford enthusiests I know who are not members here about the F6E and the comment was made that FPV only released it because they saw how well the G6ET was selling.
This led to Ford vs FPV discussions on many fronts and the question "What if ford released an XR8 Sprint again like they did in the ED would it take GT sales?

I dont think it would because most GT buyers specifically want a GT. This has been the centre of heated debate before but maybe this is not the actual case. After all, I was quite surprised that about half the members here would rather drive a pretty car than a fast car.

So here is the hypothetical:

In reply the the release of the F6E, Ford release an XR8 Sprint. The Sprint has exactly the same engine, gearbox, suspension etc as a GT.
It has better brakes than the standard XR8 that are roughly equivelent to the basic FPV (not 6 spot) brakes but are no-name and look like the standard XR8 brakes. They both perform identically over the 400m and on the road.
The body kit, interior and everything else including options is exactly the same as an XR8 with the exception of a couple of "Sprint" badges.
It is priced comparatively with the G6ET, that is $10k dearer than a XR8 but $10k cheaper than a GT.

Which would you choose?

P.S. discounts and all other financial costs/advantages will be the same so please don't post "But I can get a new XYZ for 5 shillings threepence ha'penny from Cheap Fords'r'us".

T3ts50 · 18-03-2009, 02:42 PM

Id say GT, but mainly for the badge.

Though it would be a very tough decision, as I prefer the looks of an XR8.

**Polyal** · 18-03-2009, 02:45 PM

Phoar tough call.

I think it just depends on what you where after at the beginning. If someone wants a GT they will probably buy it regardless.

But if you where after a XR8, and the sprint was another $10 odd k (or whatever the difference is these days) then you would have a hard decision.

To buy a sprint you would want to be making the most of it IMO, for example some kind of track work etc; otherwise you would probably stick with the normal XR8.

GT0132 · 18-03-2009, 03:35 PM

Even without the goodies the Sprint would have to match the GT on performance I'd still have an FG XR8 over an FG GT....you don't need to offer any incentives champ

onfire · 18-03-2009, 02:56 PM

Maybe its a silly question. But what about styling and colour. A 10k difference for better brakes and badges.. wouldnt think so. Different colour range, a " Sprint " wheel package or a lightweight " racing " style wheel alternative to the XRs. And a bling package for the engine bay. That, and a limited edition number produced. It may be worth the extra 10k.

Iggypoppin' · 18-03-2009, 02:59 PM

Gt for me. That namesake means more than "Sprint" IMO.

Nikked · 19-03-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLWXR6

Gt for me. That namesake means more than "Sprint" IMO.

Sprint has history, its another sporty ford nameplate, first used in 63 on V8 models, it added things like sports seats wheels and more crome...

**Polyal** · 18-03-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

Maybe its a silly question. But what about styling and colour. A 10k difference for better brakes and badges.. wouldnt think so. Different colour range, a " Sprint " wheel package or a lightweight " racing " style wheel alternative to the XRs. And a bling package for the engine bay. That, and a limited edition number produced. It may be worth the extra 10k.

You must of missed the engine part

Actually rims would have to be different, some nice BBS's etc would be good. But rims are a touchy subject with Ford/FPV..LOL

onfire · 18-03-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

You must of missed the engine part

Actually rims would have to be different, some nice BBS's etc would be good. But rims are a touchy subject with Ford/FPV..LOL

Ahh, I see now. In that case.. yeah, its probably worth the extra 10k.

flappist · 18-03-2009, 03:04 PM

Same colours as XR8, same size and weight rims as XR8 but maybe different pattern. Possibly limited build.

Think like the BA Enforcer/DevilR crossed with a ED Sprint.

**Polyal** · 18-03-2009, 03:21 PM

Well the ED Sprint got:

GT Drivetrain
Better Brakes
Unique Rims
Different cloth to the XR8
Badges (w00t)
Limited Build
.
..
...
Cred! Thats what a new version would have to have, minimum.

FPV8U · 18-03-2009, 03:27 PM

XR8 Sprint for me, the XR8 was the GT of the 90's when i was growing up so the GT badge to me isn't what it would have been to someone from the 60's & 70's.

If it scored the XR8 Engine & Brakes i wouldn't walk past it..

snappy · 18-03-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

XR8 Sprint for me, the XR8 was the GT of the 90's when i was growing up so the GT badge to me isn't what it would have been to someone from the 60's & 70's.

If it scored the XR8 Engine & Brakes i wouldn't walk past it..

I have to say the same the gt does not mean a whole lot to me expecially 10k . The important thing for me is the 8 but thats becoming a fight between passion and performance . So my money would be on the sprint as said before same performance 10k cheaper no brainer

schnoods · 18-03-2009, 04:04 PM

It'd have to be the sprint.

But it depends how subtle the differences would be from the xr8 to justify it over the xr8 itself.

Purely i'd buy it for straightline performance value for money (compared to the GT), also would leave 10k for a brake upgrade or perhaps a set of rims (depending what sprint rims would look like).

But remember back in the day, the ED sprint was the top tier car in that model, i believe if ford ever wanted a hero car it should be named a sprint instead of GTHO too...*

* can of worms opened..

pks54 · 18-03-2009, 03:28 PM

Originally I was going to vote for the GT just looking at the poll answers. This is before I read the criteria of them having the same engine and driveline package (And nearly everything else). Thus voted the XR8 sprint.

Yellow Fire · 18-03-2009, 03:34 PM

Sprint. $10,000 cheaper, equal performance & a Ford badge not an FPV badge? No brainer.

Fev · 18-03-2009, 03:54 PM

Probably just the GT - i dont see the point in 10k for badging and new brakes for a sprint

It would need suspension work, an exhaust and maybe an individual set on rims to make it interesting..

RAREV8 · 18-03-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

Probably just the GT - i dont see the point in 10k for badging and new brakes for a sprint

It would need suspension work, an exhaust and maybe an individual set on rims to make it interesting..

...........what about the engine and performance???? It would be the same as the GT, not the XR8 as was reiterated above. (Hypothetical of course)

I'd go the sprint......no brainer!

XR6_190 · 18-03-2009, 03:58 PM

This is a hard one, I would probably go for the GT, mainly for the more extravagant looks, and badge, the way I see it is that you can't drive too fast, so you may as well look stylish.

On a side note, I think some good additions to this poll could of been, a XR6 Turbo Sprint, basically a XR6 Turbo/ F6 version of Flappist's XR8 Sprint idea and/ or a G8E, basically a BOSS 290 equipped G series (which, engine asside would be identical to the G6ET)

WASP · 18-03-2009, 04:05 PM

As a new purchase and being a keeper, the GT would be the no brainer IMO. I see the GT being the car a Ford enthusiast would want to go for and hold onto as long as possible. Many buyers of GT’s have been owners of GT’s in the past and while the Sprint is a possible alternative it would always remain the no frills cheaper cousin to many of these buyers who don’t really want to comprise if possible.

However as a purchase that you plan to sell in a few years time the Sprint would represent a great alternative. I can see the Sprint gaining a cult ‘underdog’ status with a broader demographic appeal to V8 lovers alike (not just Ford enthusiasts). It will be the GT with the ‘no BS’ badging, the stripeless bad *** BOSS. This Sprint model concept has great potential to be very popular at sale time and be in reach of a large range of younger buyers which should theoretically make it easier to sell and move more quickly. Anyone with a GT or any FPV will understand that despite being a beautiful & unique car they are slow to sell with a smaller enthusiast audience and remaining very much out of the reach of many younger buyers in terms of value as a used purchase. This is another reason why dealers often favour trading XR models than FPV’s as they have a better chance of moving them. The limited edition XR like the Devil R’s & the Craig Lowndes signature Utes are even better as they are not much more to buy used, yet still unique and possibly faster to move. This is where I see the Sprint fitting in.

I've sort of went through the same thing with the whole FG G6ET vs the XR6T. In the end we went for the optioned up XR as my company vehicle mainly because it's cheaper and potentially easier to sell due to its wider market appeal to both an older and younger demographic with a bit of established cult status thrown in for good measure. I change these over every 2-3 years so this was very important attribute to consider.

Colville

GT0132 · 18-03-2009, 04:36 PM

I think what Flappist is trying to confirm is how far ahead the Sprint would be over the GT given the results of the other hypothetical poll favouring pretty over ugly. Then combining that with the prior knowledge that opinion seems to suggest that the XR is a better looking ride than the GT and how wide that margin in favour of the XR would become if we then added another incentive in there (same mechanicals)

**DJR-351** · 18-03-2009, 04:52 PM

Easy, the XR Sprint....

The XR Sprint will always be a "Genuine Ford"....

The FPV GT will only ever be a "Genuine FPV"....

It still remains to be seen how collectable the FPV range will be, but going on past performances of "most" car makes the "Genuine Factory" item wins hands down...

For me the GT ended with the XB, a "Genuine Ford" product....

Will FPVs ever become a classic....??

OK, Blinkers firmly in place and Flame suit on....

Bearman · 23-03-2009, 08:05 AM

That's a tough call, the XR8 Sprint would be very hard to go past, that's for sure but there is the magic of those two letters "GT". Everyone knows this and is instantly recognizable.

My heart and keyboard says "YES" to the GT, my wallet says "I'm keeping the XR6 until 2023!!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

Will FPVs ever become a classic....??

OK, Blinkers firmly in place and Flame suit on....

I'd say yes, or at least a strong maybe.

The thing to remember about X series GT's is that Ford made as many as they could sell, the build numbers were never set or limited. Over time we have today's survivors at the car shows, within car clubs and tucked away in sheds and garages.

Don't hear much about EB and EL GT's, values appear to be holding up and I'd say a good number have survived. These were a limited numbers build from the outset and I believe it is because of that not many were ever pressed into daily driver use. I reckon these will become a classic.

As for the B and F series it'll be interesting to see how many survive the next 30 years. Again, like the X series, build numbers are not limited. I see a reasonable number on the road and time will claim a few. The thing is, they will not rust out and a lot of owners are concious of the status of X series GT's now so will take more care to keep them safe. I predict a greater percentage of these GT's will be around in 30 years than the X series.

Sorry, off topic.

mrbaxr6t · 23-03-2009, 12:32 PM

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

flappist · 23-03-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

GT is an acronym for Gran Turismo which means great tourism or good touring.

Whitey-AMG · 23-03-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

I don't think anyone should be flamed for their opinion.......good on you for voicing it !!!!!!!

The issue with the whole GT thing is that everyone's expectations of the GT philosophy are different. Originally , the whole GT thing in AUS was to provide a high performance version of the cooking model. The homologated " race" versions were tagged as " HO ".........

So in essence, the GT is the high performance XR8.....just like the XYGT was the high performance "road" version of the XYGS and the XBGT was to the XBGS etc etc...........

As a High performance Grand Tourer........the current crop of GT's do the job admirably. I don't think that anyone in their right mind would want to pay 65 - 80K for a car without the simple luxuries like a stereo , ABS , power steer , power windows etc etc............remember that most of these cars also double up as family hacks as well as weekend track warriors.

A sprint version would really only serve to sell more of the same engine and chassis platform , minus the body kit , wheels and brake upgrade. It would be more of a cost cutting exercise rather than a focused race car approach.......
More of a XYGS as opposed to an XYGT exercise......but then it would still have to compare favourably with the XR8......and I don't think the current market has a bandwidth big enough to accomodate all 3 types of cars......

The other issue is that a cut price GT ( sprint ) may actually perform worse overall than the XR8 !!!!!!!!

Remember , there would be XR8 , Sprint , GT , GTP , GTE...........too much of a good thing ??????

4Vman · 23-03-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

There's GT and there's GTHO.... the same DNA but very different beasts...
The current GT is everything the classic GT's were: modern (for their time) premium prestige performance vehicles... "Grand Tourers"
The GT interior was Fairmont spec or top shelf, nothing's changed, in fact its improved.
The difference today is we no longer need homologation specials to participate in our premier racing category, hence why the GTHO existed in the 70's, but is no longer needed now...

Bossxr8 · 23-03-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk.

None of that stuff even existed back in the 60's, so its a bit strange to say the old GT's never had that stuff. Of course they didn't, nothing back then did. But the GT's would have had things considered luxury back then ie. heaters, a radio, reading lights, carpets, optional ac, sunroof etc.

The way I see it the GT's are as well specified now as they were back then in terms of luxury appointments during their time periods.

ehast13 · 18-03-2009, 04:40 PM

sprint for the track days (manual - slightly lighter than GT)

Auto GT for wife and kids.

Resale wise- look at ebgt vs xr8 sprint.

GT wins resale.

I like to be different. I'd like the sprint

4Vman · 18-03-2009, 04:52 PM

GT for me, both vehicles would appeal to people with totally different mind sets and buying "tastes"..
Its supported by the fact that XR6T's outsell XR8's, but GT's outsell F6's....

View Poll Results: Which do you choose?
XR8 Sprint $56,000	68	51.13%
FPV GT $66,000	65	48.87%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll