LPG system has gotta go

blueoval · 02-04-2009, 05:47 PM

Well I think Im basically over the idea of trying to get the LPG working on a performance level for my car.

I've had nothing but comment after comment of people saying I cant do a mixer ring style setup with boost. That and more people wanting me to fork out 4.5k on a LVI system! As some of you know I already have a Parnell system on my car that is currently disconnected due to my supercharger.

The issues I have had in trying to find someone willing to setup an affordable system is mind boggling.

I really really dont want to spend 4.5k to get this to work.

What about the rebate? What about it....

The system I have on here now was fitted 2 years ago. So ineligible to receive rebate honestly. Cant use some of the existing parts either as the rules state no upgrades are claimable.

I was told a possible removal of existing system, and re-registering my car as a straight petrol car in the chance to receive the rebate was an option, but frankly I cant be bothered. It will cost me to get it removed anyway. I might as well sell the system, get some money back, and boot space, and drive it as is.

I've had it up to the eyeballs. Im sick of spending countless of thousands on stuff that frankly WONT give me bang for buck. I think Im gonna leave it as is. Drive it as a dedicated petrol vehicle.

So the gas has gotta go.

What are these systems worth second hand?

PS. Sorry if I sound non punctual, Im tired and just got back from the dentist.

5L · 02-04-2009, 06:08 PM

sell the gas system shav and get it tuned to e85. e85+boost is a match made in heaven. and will more than likely get you closer to you 200rwkw goal.

in all honesty i dont think the 4litre or 5litre go through that much petrol. you just need to watch the right foot. i normally spend around $70 a week on fuel for 500 or so km's. my gf spends about the same and does the same km's. with yours boosted i think you should still be able to get 400-450km's which isnt bad.

blueoval · 02-04-2009, 06:35 PM

Thanks Shane.

Im currently getting about 420km now on a tank of ultimate. Thats in the city with some spirited driving.

Where would I get e85 anyway? I havent seen it at the pumps here in the south yet?

GK · 02-04-2009, 06:42 PM

Sorry to hear that noone is willing to help you with a performance mixer ring set up.

Have you sent a PM to TrickXD? He appears to be very well acquainted with such matters.

In any case, all the best with it.

GK

blueoval · 02-04-2009, 06:49 PM

Thanks GK.

It was a setup my wife wanted more than me, but everytime I mentioned the $$$ she got p!55ed off with what she heard.

I think she is just over it as much as me.

I just wanna know what these systems are worth selling for?

I'll relook the issue in 12months time

private9 · 02-04-2009, 08:50 PM

Boost plus gas can be done.

My car has a Gas Research throttle body, twin b2 converters and twin lines to the tank. Has plenty of flow, and drives fine.

I've got another GRA S510 throttle body and twin GRA converters with a bracket to suit AU sitting at home. I'm happy to take any pics or details that may help you, so feel free to give me a yell! (I'm a bit green with it all, so bear with me though!!!)

mickyyyy · 02-04-2009, 09:33 PM

of course u can get a mixer ring setup to run properly and get good power.

u can do the exact same setup like private9 said and just have to get someone up ur way to put it together and tune it.

Also a intercooler would be a good idea as well. u would want to keep the temp down and less chance of detonation

blueoval · 02-04-2009, 11:00 PM

I was told doing this with a supercharger is different to turbo. I could risk back firing and damaging the supercharger. Thats something I dont want to leave to chance. Something to do with positive air pressure??? Was told the GRA TB's can be temperamental for a supercharged application.

This was the words from a guy at Graham West Workshops here in SA who are recommended resellers & fitters of GRA products.

Then there is the issue of the rebate. I really wanted to use the rebate to help pay for the costs, but that doesnt look like its gonna happen.

All in all, I've kinda lost a bit of interest to go down this path, moreso from a financial aspect.

mik · 02-04-2009, 11:31 PM

it can be done done, my mate had a 3.0 litre supra making a reliable 350+ rwkw through the 9", however it was a lot of head aches and not cheap.

JC · 02-04-2009, 11:53 PM

My advice was to let RTA know you've removed the gas (ie change rego details, not -register the car). Anyway, remove the gas and sell it, if that's what you want to do. In the long run, it will be cheaper than spending $'000 ossibly to get the gas working, just to save $30 per week.

2nd hand gas systems are not dear - you may be lucky to get $500 for it, or you may get $1000. I wouldn't expect to move it quickly though (most people buy new).

blueoval · 03-04-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

My advice was to let RTA know you've removed the gas (ie change rego details, not -register the car). Anyway, remove the gas and sell it, if that's what you want to do. In the long run, it will be cheaper than spending $'000 ossibly to get the gas working, just to save $30 per week.

2nd hand gas systems are not dear - you may be lucky to get $500 for it, or you may get $1000. I wouldn't expect to move it quickly though (most people buy new).

Thanks JC. Appreciate your comments on this. You understand where Im coming from.

As far as selling the gas system is concerned, Im prepared to wait for the right person. If I can get that sort of money your saying, I will be happy. I just want to get something back for it thats all.

Anyone wanna buy it??? :P

Dave_Obsession · 03-04-2009, 10:30 AM

I'm sure there'd be a fellow forumite who'd be interested.......make sure you give the E-series & B-series guys a heads up as well......

**Mont5.0** · 03-04-2009, 10:51 AM

Remove it and get it tuned up on good pump fuel. Less head aches, and any weight reduction (removal of gas set up)-is going to be a bonus. You could also get a multi stage flash tune for a lot cheaper than the 4.5k gas set up, then you can have the best of both worlds- economy tune, and a race tune.

mcflux · 03-04-2009, 11:27 AM

quite a few guys from the Boosted forums have their cars running LPG + boost (either supercharged or turbocharged).

6 spring to mind, 5 are banned from here though, so you'd be best asking/searching over there mate.

blueoval · 03-04-2009, 01:07 PM

dave - thanks mate will do.

Mont - Yes you are right. But in the end, I want end the spending for a while. Its getting on my goat at the moment. The cost of a decent setup whether by mixer ring or LVI has put me off. To top it off Im not eligible for the rebate.

Ghia5L - thanks, Im a member of that forum already. Many there have had success but at big cost financially. Most have been able to get the grant to assist them.

EDIT: I think people could be forgetting too that I am after a dual fuel setup not straight LPG which is far easier to attain power from. There was always going to be a compromise with doing it like this, and my options were slim to begin with. Just about everyone Ive spoken to has said LVI is the best option for dual fuel boosted application.

mcflux · 03-04-2009, 01:26 PM

Granted, Rmyers spent $$$$ on his supercharger setup (because he wanted a full-on show car) however most of the other members did so with budgets of around $2000-5000, and used mixer ring (or GRA t/b) setups, not injection stuff.

Those budgets included gas AND turbo gear. You already have the supercharger gear, and most of the suitable gas gear, it sounds like you just need to swap/fiddle with a few bits of your gas setup (balance lines, spring rates in converters, bigger or dual converters, GRA t/b instead of mixer ring, etc) and you should be laughing.

I'm no pro though, ask the guys who have done it without injection

Oh, another thought: TURBOTAXI on here did it didn't he?

EDIT to your edit: 3 of the Boosted members I'm thinking of run dual fuel, albeit turbo setups not supercharged.

blueoval · 03-04-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Granted, Rmyers spent $$$$ on his supercharger setup (because he wanted a full-on show car) however most of the other members did so with budgets of around $2000-5000, and used mixer ring (or GRA t/b) setups, not injection stuff.

Those budgets included gas AND turbo gear. You already have the supercharger gear, and most of the suitable gas gear, it sounds like you just need to swap/fiddle with a few bits of your gas setup (balance lines, spring rates in converters, bigger or dual converters, GRA t/b instead of mixer ring, etc) and you should be laughing.

I'm no pro though, ask the guys who have done it without injection

Oh, another thought: TURBOTAXI on here did it didn't he?

EDIT to your edit: 3 of the Boosted members I'm thinking of run dual fuel, albeit turbo setups not supercharged.

Yes a turbo setup was always going to be easier to achieve a dual fuel situation than supercharging. For a GRA setup to work on a supercharger, I was told a draw thru setup was the way to go. (tb before the supercharger) but with the lack of room to do this it was going to be difficult. Blow thru setup (TB between the s/c and engine) was a major issue. LPG doesnt like to be forced into an intake manifold. It was always going to be better to inject vapor into the cylinder directly. (aka SVI/LVI)

mcflux · 03-04-2009, 02:15 PM

Why would a supercharger setup differ to a turbo setup when it comes to blow-through vs suck-through? Boost is boost. (let's not look in to how a centrifugal blower builds boost linearly with revs whereas turbos work off engine load)

That's where fiddling with the converter spring & proper placement of balance lines comes in to play when it comes to getting it all to work nicely.

blueoval · 03-04-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Why would a supercharger setup differ to a turbo setup when it comes to blow-through vs suck-through? Boost is boost. (let's not look in to how a centrifugal blower builds boost linearly with revs whereas turbos work off engine load)

That's where fiddling with the converter spring & proper placement of balance lines comes in to play when it comes to getting it all to work nicely.

Apparently it has something to do with positive and negative air pressure loads. I dont know the full technicalities/logistics of it, but from the professionals whom Ive spoken to, they have said its very risky running a GRA or similar setup AND DUAL FUEL on any boosted application. Which to some degree I didnt beleive considering the boys on boosted falcon have done it with a measure of success.

I think unless I see it working on someones car with my own eyes, I'll be more willing to get someone to give it a crack.

mcflux · 03-04-2009, 02:39 PM

Sicne you're based in SA & most of the Boosted guys are Vic-based, seeing with your own eyes may be difficult :(

Quote:

Apparently it has something to do with positive and negative air pressure loads.

^^^ that's where getting the right converter spring and correct placement of balance lines comes in, so you don't get issues like backfiring or stalling when snapping off the throttle.

blueoval · 03-04-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

^^^ that's where getting the right converter spring and correct placement of balance lines comes in, so you don't get issues like backfiring or stalling when snapping off the throttle.

I see. Well there isnt many here willing to play around with converters here. Otherwise I'd give it a go.

mcflux · 03-04-2009, 03:45 PM

Jump onto Boosted & you'll most likely get informed responses from Kaddis, Sunny, & John about their experiences with getting their LPG setups right.

And surely an LPG tuner in SA will be able to do things such as swapping converter springs over, or it may be something you could do yourself (disclaimer: I don't know myself and would be asking those who have done this before what they did before attempting to fiddle with the LPG yourself!)

blueoval · 03-04-2009, 04:01 PM

Ive spoken to John. His setup us very similar to mine except he has FMIC and running a powerdyne. He is running a GRA tb too. Seems to have no issues. I'll look at it again in 12months time

mcflux · 03-04-2009, 04:42 PM

Another John? I meant EFFalcon.

I'm guessing you talked with Steve (powerdyne + fmic).

Well, good luck with what you go with

Since you already have an LPG system, and a fitted supercharger, I really do think you'd be best off getting the gas right. Beats paying $1.30/L at the bowser!

blueoval · 03-04-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Another John? I meant EFFalcon.

I'm guessing you talked with Steve (powerdyne + fmic).

Well, good luck with what you go with

Since you already have an LPG system, and a fitted supercharger, I really do think you'd be best off getting the gas right. Beats paying $1.30/L at the bowser!

I appreciate your concerns mate. Thanks for your interest. I will get back on the LPG wagon eventually, but I wanna do it all right and in one hit rather than bits and piece's here and there. I reckon LVI is the way to go for me eventually.

mickyyyy · 05-04-2009, 10:29 PM

This dude may be able to help you but he is melb and a workshop done his LPG conversion oh his supercharged falcon

http://www./viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7868

blueoval · 06-04-2009, 12:25 PM

link doesnt work mickyyyy

mcflux · 06-04-2009, 01:13 PM

it's meant to have a certain forum name in it ;)

It's Rmyers' build thread.

mickyyyy · 06-04-2009, 05:23 PM

It dosent let me post it here for some reason

I'll pm you the link

TURBOTAXI · 06-04-2009, 08:16 PM

Sorry to hear this news.

Anything I can do to help?