Car behaviour - could it have a stall converter?

falconboy · 27-06-2009, 10:37 PM

Hey,

I'm going to ask a dumb stall converter question. Although I generally understand the benefits of one, I've never actually driven a car with one, so don't really know how they effect 'normal' drivability.

Put it this way, I've been car shopping and I drove a Nissan Stagea today (2.5L V6 turbo), known to be quite a quick car. And it was, quicker than I thought, however, if I was stopped and simply took my foot off the brake and planted it on the accellerator, the thing started off really sloooooowwwllly, maybe got up to 20k/hr or so (I didn't really take much notice of exactly when) but then its like it 'woke up' and took off like a frigging rocket.

The accelleration once it took off was awesome, but that initial throttle response was really bad, I'd never want to drive a car like that since most of my stuff is around the suburbs stop/start between lights and it was a bit painful.

Could this behaviour be related to it possibly having a hi stall converter in it? Would that make it lack the low down take off performance but start to fly once the revs got higher?

The owner (a car dealer) would not have any idea whether it had one in it or not as it was just imported from the auctions in Japan.

Thanks.

FreddyDUZ747 · 27-06-2009, 10:43 PM

lack of bottom end torque and its the same engine as the R33 GTST but in a car that weighs 200kg more,that doesnt help.Highstalls multiply the torque quicker at full accelleration so if it had one you would of known by the blackys you would have left. :evil3:.what year?

falconboy · 27-06-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilmore

lack of bottom end torque and its the same engine as the R33 GTST but in a car that weighs 200kg more,that doesnt help.Highstall multiply the torque quicker at full accelleration so if it had one you would of known by the blackys you would have left. :evil3:

I wasn't even pushing it hard as it was wet, so it might have left blackys if I tried harder.

Looks like its just the lack of bottom end torque then. If thats the case, I have no idea why these are raved about, would be painful to drive day to day.

mickbundy · 27-06-2009, 10:43 PM

I don't think so

dusty86 · 27-06-2009, 10:46 PM

it's a straight six, unless your looking at the newer ones, anyhow, it's probably lag not a stallie

falconboy · 27-06-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty86

it's a straight six, unless your looking at the newer ones, anyhow, it's probably lag not a stallie

Nope, its a V6. Even has it in big letters (well, a letter and a number)

on the motor.

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-06-2009, 10:50 PM

It seems you have turbo lag confused with a stall convertor.

The latter gives very good response.

It's a small cube engine which needs some rpm to spool the turbo before it gets up and goes.

falconboy · 27-06-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

It seems you have turbo lag confused with a stall convertor.

The latter gives very good response.

It's a small cube engine which needs some rpm to spool the turbo before it gets up and goes.

That makes sense, as it doesn't start 'whistling' until it takes off, which might indicate the turbo doing its thing (although I could be wrong there).

So theres no mod that could remedy this? Just a design thing?

(PS. Thanks, I know as little about Turbos as I do about Stall Converters).

:

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-06-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconboy

That makes sense, as it doesn't start 'whistling' until it takes off, which might indicate the turbo doing its thing (although I could be wrong there).

So theres no mod that could remedy this? Just a design thing?

(PS. Thanks, I know as little about Turbos as I do about Stall Converters).

:

Actually a stall converter is the remedy, get the boost up a little before take off, not certain it would make for good daily driving though.

Wally · 28-06-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconboy

........

(PS. Thanks, I know as little about Turbos as I do about Stall Converters).

:

That would put you in the top 98 percentile. If you had a high stall, the engine rpm would have wound up fairly quickly before the pump started to fight back. Chances are a road car will have a fairly moderate stall speed, if only to prolong the life of the tranny. The tradeoff is that the engine may not produce enough power at those revs to achieve sufficient power at the wheels for agreeable acceleration = torque mulitpilication on a low base produces a low ouput figure even if it is 2:1, or whatever. Because the engine is lugging away at low revs (probably the converter stall speed), the exhaust mass flow is also low, so the turbine isn't doing much work either. Ever so gradually the car gets moving and the engine can move closer to it's peak VE , the turbine starts to hit it's straps and the car comes to life. Maybe you should be thinking of getting a higher stall converter, but you will need to think about keeping the tranny fluid cool.

ea90gl · 28-06-2009, 07:57 PM

Nothing tougher than an angry lumpy V8 running 4000RPM stally getting pinned off the line :evil3: sorry bit off topic but had to mention it... As mentioned many times my guess comes to turbo lag, seems to be a heavier than usual car with a relatively small capcity motor running the turbo which wouldnt help turbo spool up times and again as mentioned some minor mods should fix that up. Like mentioned if the car had a higher stall this would aid the lack of bottom end which has been explained. Depending on the stall speed upgrading wouldnt be such a bad thing in terms of driveability provided you don't get something stupid such as 4000RPM for the street. If you drive the car again park it up on the side of the road, with it in drive/1st press brake pedal firmly and hold the throttle to the floor, just like you would do if trying to do a burnout (except don't do it). You should see the RPM guage "flash" to a certain speed and stay there. Example if it shoots to 2500RPM and sits there you have a 2500RPM stall converter. However don't do this for too long as trans oil temp will shoot up in a real short time. Say you drive normally with a 2500 converter and the car sits on say 2000RPM while normally accelerating along, the car would say sit on 2500RPM if you had a 3000RPM stall converter. The converter behaviour would also feel "looser" then the standard and RPM speed will vary alot more during different types of driving styles. However not all converters are the same, this is why many people get them custom built and a builder will ask you to fill out a car spec sheet so they can extract the best performance out of the converter they are building for your car. One converter rated at 3500RPM for a high HP big block might not even see 3000RPM when matched up with a little 302 or something. This is a real brief run down between higher/lower stall converter but hopefully you get the idea.

Wally · 28-06-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ea90gl

Nothing tougher than an angry lumpy V8 running 4000RPM stally getting pinned off the line :evil3: ........

and between gears

_2:

Still, there is bragging rites to think about.

FreddyDUZ747 · 27-06-2009, 10:53 PM

The ricers seem to like them as they dont attract that neck turning attention from the boys in blue but still be able to drive a 6cyl Jap Turbo.They are quite nice cars and see quite alot in Adelaide with mature aged parents with kids.The RS26 is a ball cruncher as it has the GTR driveline and we know how good the respond to a few thou.LUXURY,SPACE,POWER but made in Japan so thats where the appeal bums out for me.
edit:
just saw your edit and have had no experience with that engine,sorry for confusion.my moneys on weight though.

Iggypoppin' · 27-06-2009, 10:55 PM

And it seems you drove an auto stagea not a manual. Manual stageas seem to have less off the line slump than manuals... And they're inline6 not V

falconboy · 27-06-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJXR6

And it seems you drove an auto stagea not a manual. Manual stageas seem to have less off the line slump than manuals... And they're inline6 not V

Whats the big V6 badge doing on them though?

I think maybe people are thinking of the 1998 - early 2001 models, the one I drove is the next model along, late 2001-2003 which are M35, not C34.

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-06-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconboy

Whats the big V6 badge doing on them though?

I think maybe people are thinking of the 1998 - early 2001 models, the one I drove is the next model along, late 2001-2003 which are M35, not C34.

You are correct.

The M35 series (2001 to 2007) looks very different than the previous C34 models and is derived from the Skyline/G35 sedan (V35 platform). As per the Skyline the engine was changed from the RB series I6 to the VQ series V6.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Stagea

prydey · 28-06-2009, 01:42 PM

my brother had an 01 rs6 while he was here in adelaide. he now has a later v6 model one in qld. i've been in both and while not being that quick in stock form, i wouldn't call it sluggish off the line. they are 4wd and hook up very well. if the one you drove is sluggish off the line it may have bigger issues. maybe its not taking off in 1st or the torque converter could be buggered.

they are quite a nice car though. look like a volvo too except for the front. thats got a touch of maxima about it.

nugget378 · 27-06-2009, 10:57 PM

Its just how the turbo cars are, my BF ute is the same, a little lazy from a stand still..

The Monty · 28-06-2009, 02:03 PM

Would be turbo lag, a few little mods would make it more alive. Im not sure how a stallie would go in one though.

mik · 28-06-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconboy

Hey,

I'm going to ask a dumb stall converter question. Although I generally understand the benefits of one, I've never actually driven a car with one, so don't really know how they effect 'normal' drivability.

Put it this way, I've been car shopping and I drove a Nissan Stagea today (2.5L V6 turbo), known to be quite a quick car. And it was, quicker than I thought, however, if I was stopped and simply took my foot off the brake and planted it on the accellerator, the thing started off really sloooooowwwllly, maybe got up to 20k/hr or so (I didn't really take much notice of exactly when) but then its like it 'woke up' and took off like a frigging rocket.

The accelleration once it took off was awesome, but that initial throttle response was really bad, I'd never want to drive a car like that since most of my stuff is around the suburbs stop/start between lights and it was a bit painful.

Could this behaviour be related to it possibly having a hi stall converter in it? Would that make it lack the low down take off performance but start to fly once the revs got higher?

The owner (a car dealer) would not have any idea whether it had one in it or not as it was just imported from the auctions in Japan.

Thanks.

thats a characteristic of many turbo engines, probably not as much the ford 6t, my brothers very tired early model supra was a bit slow off the mark but once the boost came in about 2ooo rpm it became quite nippy.....

.

falconboy · 28-06-2009, 09:24 PM

I will say, if this thing was bought for mainly highway/country driving, it would be quite a beast, but around my local area, as it is I think I'd end up selling it and buying another Honda Civic. LOL.

I'd like to see how one does actually go with a stallie in it, however finding one for a test drive seems pretty unlikely.

alter_EGOXR · 28-06-2009, 09:28 PM

thats a turbo for ya...thats why i would never buy a turbo over a v8.... in most cases, off the line a V8 will beat a turbo 6...but by the time the turbo kicks in, your already doing the speed limit or over it...nothing beats the pure grunt of a v8 (except a v10 or v12 :P)...

falconboy · 29-06-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemank

thats a turbo for ya...thats why i would never buy a turbo over a v8.... in most cases, off the line a V8 will beat a turbo 6...but by the time the turbo kicks in, your already doing the speed limit or over it...nothing beats the pure grunt of a v8 (except a v10 or v12 :P)...

Yeah, I found it kicked in, took off, then I was going 90 in a 60 zone already before I knew it. This was a test drive though, I don't usually drive at 30 over the limit of course.