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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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04-12-2009, 11:44 AM | #1 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 489
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http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/new...f_w427_program
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I call BS, anyone else? |
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04-12-2009, 11:55 AM | #2 | ||
Youth worker
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ipswich QLD
Posts: 6,892
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What! I heard the same thing you did kezzer. How could they have made cash on a handful of custom HSV's that needed the front end redesigned to fit the LS9??? (cant remember if it was the same donk as the current Vette).
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2007 FPV F6 Typhoon BFII, Neo. Build Number 325 2011 SZ Territory Typhoon Thread: Mr Brooksy's BFII Typhoon Territory Thread: Mrs Brooksy's SZ Territory Resurrection Old Futura thread:
Brooksy's Ex Build |
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04-12-2009, 12:12 PM | #3 | |||
Chasing a FORD project!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: adelaide
Posts: 5,114
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LS7 I think it was.
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1996 BMW 740iL V8. TV, phone, leather, sunroof, satnav, all as standard. Now with 19" TSW Brooklands, 2 1/2" stainless steel exhaust, plus more coming soon. |
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04-12-2009, 12:21 PM | #4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Filling up
Posts: 1,459
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I wouldnt think it matters, they may have have made money on the project or they might not - however if they didnt they could use a bit of creative accounting to show that they did (ie attributing costs to a different project, allocation of overheads, I am sure there are lots of other things they could do too)
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VIXEN MK II GT 0238 with Sunroof and tinted windows with out all the go fast bits I actually need : |
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04-12-2009, 12:41 PM | #5 | ||
Long live the Falcon GT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,630
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Well really its simple maths....
137 vehicles @ $155,000 a pop = $21,235,000. Not sure if they released the cost / development of the vehicle - but thats the raw figures... I remember them saying that there was going to be 427, then 200, then 150.... But thats what the editorials and sales guys are for.... they always say they're going to sell HEAPS of cars... Look at the Force 6 / Force 8 range... I'll bet that FPV planned on selling more than 100 of each of those... What about the T-series TL range??? 58 total cars over 3 years.... It can go both ways I suppose.... It might make the above mentioned cars more 'desirable' in the future.... but at the end of the day - they were unloved to start with!! Ugly ducklings.... who may (or may not) turn out to be good one day... Time will tell....
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04-12-2009, 01:16 PM | #6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cattai, Sydney
Posts: 7,701
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From what i can tell Harding means financial sucess through the development, techniques and knowledge they have learn't through the process of creating the W427.
Development costs can be astronomical and the skill's they've learn through making the W427 would be invaluable.
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1992 EBII Fairmont Ghia 4.0l <---Click for the Gallery! Insta@mooneye_ghia White on bright red smoothies with thick whitewalls. Cruising around to some rockabilly |
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04-12-2009, 02:22 PM | #7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,094
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R+D funds gone into W427 have now also gone into E2, so I dont doubt it was profitable.
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04-12-2009, 03:21 PM | #8 | ||
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
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Old news.
I can believe it. $155k for a Commodore (!), the only difference being the bigger engine and minor cosmetics like front bumper and wheels. |
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05-12-2009, 03:01 AM | #9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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EB II 1992 Fairmont - koni reds, wade 977b, 2.5inch/4480's and much more to come! |
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05-12-2009, 10:05 AM | #10 | |||
Member
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Posts: 4,940
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05-12-2009, 05:46 PM | #11 | ||
The Destroyer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 2,261
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They should have made a 427 ute, that would have been special.
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Toy- Blown XR8 Ute. Black on black "Front-drive cars are for children" |
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07-12-2009, 10:41 PM | #12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,421
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I don't know... that's really stumpe me. I guess there really wasn't all that much developmnt... A few things I am thinking of:
- Would the crash tests of a the standard Common-whore been used, or did they have to crash the 427 cars as is? - How much engine development would have been needed to meet ADR emmisions for such a big lug? - The suspension etc would be pretty standard, not too much $ there. - How much develpoment was needed in driveline? Thinking about it, the man hours (designing etc), the marketing, wouldn't have aded up to 21m. Interesting. Certainly food for thought. |
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08-12-2009, 07:39 AM | #13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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08-12-2009, 06:36 PM | #14 | |||
Broken
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,845
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The Scud GT 11.4 @ 128, 1.88 60ft. |
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04-12-2009, 03:31 PM | #15 | |||
Chasing a FORD project!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: adelaide
Posts: 5,114
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Don't forget the badge...
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1996 BMW 740iL V8. TV, phone, leather, sunroof, satnav, all as standard. Now with 19" TSW Brooklands, 2 1/2" stainless steel exhaust, plus more coming soon. |
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04-12-2009, 03:41 PM | #16 | ||
Bolt Nerd
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ojochal, Costa Rica (Pura Vida!)
Posts: 15,100
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R&D tax benefits aren't too shabby either!!
"R&D Tax Concession is a broad-based, market driven tax concession which allows companies to deduct up to 125% of qualifying expenditure incurred on R&D activities when lodging their corporate tax return. A 175% Incremental (Premium) Tax Concession and R&D Tax Offset are also available in certain circumstances."
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Current vehicles.. Yamaha Rhino UTV, SWB 4L TJ Jeep, and boring Lhd RAV4 Bionic BF F6... UPDATE: Replaced by Shiro White 370z 7A Roadster. SOLD Workhack: FG Silhouette XR50 Turbo ute (11.63@127.44mph) SOLD 2 wheels.. 2015 103ci HD Wideglide.. SOLD SOLD THE LOT, Voted with our feet and relocated to COSTA RICA for some Pura Vida! (Ex Blood Orange #023 FPV Pursuit owner : ) |
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04-12-2009, 07:31 PM | #17 | ||
Donating Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Morayfield
Posts: 28,292
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Just imagine if Ford had attempted a project like this, we would be singing their praises.
I think good on HSV for having a crack at it regardless of whether they made/lost money. |
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04-12-2009, 07:33 PM | #18 | ||
BOSS 5.4L Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,943
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Was/is a great car, albeit a bit overpriced, but good to see atleast one Australian performance car company having a crack.
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04-12-2009, 08:00 PM | #19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
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It was far more than just an engine and cosmetics - the brakes, cooling systems, MRC, clutch, gearbox, fuel system, etc. If it were a ford i would have bought it. I still think about getting one (black one on carsales yes please). The are the pinnacle of modern muscle cars. And before anyone says their tuned f6 will whip it - try a 10 lap sprint race. By lap 3 the f6 would have overheated and lost the brakes.
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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04-12-2009, 08:21 PM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
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Quote:
HSV didnt make money on this car, but the car was a success..... and its FAR more than a motor, bumper and badge..
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335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
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04-12-2009, 08:27 PM | #21 | |||
Broken
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,845
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Settle...... But I agree by the way. It (w427) didn't 'make' money, but it did produce a lot of unquantifiable returns on the investment. Halo product it is, without doubt. Kudos to GMH, they have a go, and the fan base reflects this. Todays wannabe, often become tomorrows buyer. Take note FPV.
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The Scud GT 11.4 @ 128, 1.88 60ft. |
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05-12-2009, 04:31 PM | #22 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Having ACTUALLY DONE several sprints of 15, 20 and 30 laps on various tracks in a BA2 F6 fitted with RE50s, I never ran out of brakes nor overheated the engine. I did manage to boil the diff once at QLD Raceway on a stinking hot day but so did several other cars and that was after 25 laps. |
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05-12-2009, 05:20 PM | #23 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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05-12-2009, 06:59 PM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TAS
Posts: 2,551
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I destroy my gtp brakes after 5 hard laps, and would love to be abvle to give it more. My point is that trying to call it just a motor upgrade that an aftermarket tuned f6 will beat is like saying the gtho ph3 was just a bigger camshaft and carby on a gs falcon.....hang on, that's what it is! Yet we get so misty eyed over the gtho and pay stupid amounts for it because it was the pinnacle of engineering at the time, as is the wd40
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XA coupe 8.8sec @ 150mph http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...coupe+drag+car BA GT-P for the shed Mustang GT for the other half E3 chubsport - fully fat (and slow), sitting there waiting for me to get sick of it and sell it. BA XR6T for a daily NT Pajero for the bush XB 4 door project- swallows a BF xr6 turbo My dad is a generous bloke. He gave away his dead car batteries free of charge.... |
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04-12-2009, 09:11 PM | #25 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 551
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Moot point overall, it never came to fruition so who knows what sort of a sucess it MIGHT have been.
Was just a pretty picture presented to teacher that didn't fit the image of HSV's budget performance car mould. An M5/C63 would have thrashed it i reckon...Discuss. |
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04-12-2009, 09:22 PM | #26 | |||
Broken
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,845
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You miss the point. This car was conceived in Australia. It was assembled in Australia. All be it with lots and lots of over seas components, it was (and is) a damn fine ROAD car. Let's not drag the C63, or the dearer M5, or the RS4 into this discussion, they cannot be compared, Why not??????? because those afformentioned vehicle have been designed, R & D'd, , manufactured, and marketed on a vastly LARGER playing field. Who's got the biggest developement buget, AMG, BMW, Audi, HSV???? You'd have to be a bit of a rock brain to pick HSV wouldn't you.....
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The Scud GT 11.4 @ 128, 1.88 60ft. |
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04-12-2009, 09:43 PM | #27 | |||
BF XR6, oh yeah!!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melton, Vic
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Current ride: 2005 BF XR6 Sedan, Lightning Strike, ZF Auto Previous ride: 2001 AUII Futura Sedan, Narooma Blue |
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05-12-2009, 09:41 AM | #28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane
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Quote:
:togo: |
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04-12-2009, 09:26 PM | #29 | ||
BOSS 5.4L Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,943
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Not to mention it did come through with well over 100 Sold..
Wait until someone throws a Decent OTRCAI, Exhaust and a Cam that has some lumps in it, those things are a monster waiting to be awoken and it won't cost 10K for 35hp like alot of the Euros. |
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04-12-2009, 09:47 PM | #30 | ||
Mustang GT mmmmmm......
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mornington Peninsula
Posts: 1,459
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The way GM builds cars lately they hardly seemed worried if they make a profit on anything. Can always get the US government to throw in some more cash.
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I have become a Mustanger. |
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