NSW reintroduction of aerial speed patrols

Keepleft · 14-12-2009, 05:19 PM

NSW-
As with last time, circa 1980's, roads subject to aerial speed patrol by fixed wing planes, will bear white lines spaced 500 metres apart. A vehicle is timed between the two points.

Last time the cost got too high, and some people were seen to be driving and using binoculars.

Love that NSW government.

Detail should be in media or via RTA Ministerial release shortly.

Riksta · 14-12-2009, 05:28 PM

if you think you're going too fast just pull over the side of the road for a slash and a smoke before you cross the second line ;)

Keepleft · 14-12-2009, 05:31 PM

Riksta; -
1. EVERY 500 METRES.
2. YOU CANNOT (MUST NOT) STOP ON A FREEWAY:-)

Riksta · 14-12-2009, 05:45 PM

I didn't realise they were going to be every 500 metres, I thought at random points on the highway there would be two lines 500 metres apart that you're timed between.

And was also thinking more highway than freeway, like the road between Adelaide & Broken Hill where you can pull over.

FPV+fteT3 · 14-12-2009, 05:52 PM

Would have to be directly over the car at first point and second point to be nearly accurate due to parallax (spelling) error as an apprentice sparky many years ago when using analogue meters a mirror strip is behind the needle of a high quality meter to reduce error from viewing at an angle. The angle viewed from a plane if not directly over the car will have this error and the reading will be flawed.

Walkinshaw · 14-12-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Would have to be directly over the car at first point and second point to be nearly accurate due to parallax (spelling) error as an apprentice sparky many years ago when using analogue meters a mirror strip is behind the needle of a high quality meter to reduce error from viewing at an angle. The angle viewed from a plane if not directly over the car will have this error and the reading will be flawed.

Paralax error reduces very quickly when the height of the helicopter/plane is significantly greater than that from your roof to the road.

aussie muscle · 10-03-2010, 03:15 PM

Whatt a waste of money, no wonder the state is broke...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Would have to be directly over the car at first point and second point to be nearly accurate due to parallax (spelling) error.

nope, it'll be lidar/radar, so won't affect it. they'll also likely be a 1000ft high.

flappist · 14-12-2009, 05:48 PM

But you can add extra lines

The nullabor used to have lots of lines all over the place.

MAV50L · 14-12-2009, 06:40 PM

Pigs in Space..........................

Pinch · 14-12-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAV50L

Pigs in Space..........................

I remember those grafittied signs between Lithgow and Bathurst!

Streets · 14-12-2009, 07:09 PM

Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to have point-to-point speed cameras? This sounds like the same sort of idea.

XPfalcon170 · 14-12-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to have point-to-point speed cameras? This sounds like the same sort of idea.

Probably not, because they can get vandalised in all manner of ways. The airplane cannot, unless you have a stinger missile in the boot

Keepleft · 14-12-2009, 07:39 PM

NSW Police Media Release:-

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/la...ZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D

When 'television' last covered this application back in the 80's (1983/4), we had the then NSW (ALP) Roads Minister, George Pacuillo,- in front of camera's on the F3 at Wyong - doing his media bit.

During this media event, over police radio loud and clear for all to hear, we heard of a fatal crash on the nearby Hue Hue Road, and so in the background of TV coverage, the highway patrol units took off at speed to this fatal, as did the Minister I recall, his meeting interrupted.

This crash occured in a cutting near a crest, a 17 year old died in his white Torana. His roadside memorial is still there on top of the cutting, a small white welded cross; over it is slung some of the small bits of debris remaining from the crash; a length of chrome rail gutter, etc. Its over covered by grasses atm, and I have stopped nearby to check on it in times past.

Back then I was annoyed at why a freeway was subject to this form of enforcement, being a costly road, and one of the safest. I am still of that mind today in 2009.

The serving NSW Police Minister is our ex Roads Minister, the Hon. Michael Daley, he in turn arrived into parliament direct from the NRMA.

**Full Noise** · 14-12-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to have point-to-point speed cameras? This sounds like the same sort of idea.

What? And put Captain Hogthrob out of a job.

xtremerus · 14-12-2009, 09:53 PM

From the first bit of the media release
"With the Christmas season upon us NSW Police have today unveiled two new initiatives to help combat the growing road toll and make sure everyone makes it home safely.

Police will be out in force from midnight Friday 18 December until 11.59pm Sunday 3 January 2010 as part of Operation Safe Arrival, the annual Christmas/New Year road safety campaign, and this year motorists will be targeted from the sky –with the use of a fixed wing plane.

“This operation sees NSW Police use a fixed-wing plane to target speeding, fatigue and other dangerous driving behaviours from the sky,” said Commissioner Andrew Scipione.

“The ‘Cessna 206H Stationair’ will be crewed by trained traffic police who will use the plane to monitor drivers from the air, observing signs of fatigue.”

“Importantly also on board the Cessna is an approved device that measures the time taken for a vehicle to travel between special lines that have been marked on the road by the RTA. Where police on board detect a speeding offence a ticket will be issued by mail to the registered owner. Police will also have the capability to coordinate ground- based officers to intercept the vehicle if necessary,” Commissioner Scipione said."
----------------------------------------------

How do you tell a fatigued driver from an airplane???
Me thinks the speeding will be the target.
Also, they would have to get low, and at a fair angle, after the speeding incident, to get a photo of the number plate.
Complete waste of taxpayer money. Didn't they learn ANYTHING the last time they tried this caper.

Fev · 15-12-2009, 09:41 AM

For the price of a plane you could fund a lot of driver education and training which would go further into saving lives, reducing road costs, reducing insurance costs etc etc etc....

HOW ABOUT SPEND IT ON HELPFUL TV ADS WHICH SHOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TIGHT CORNERING AT 40 AND 45!!!
AAMI does the right thing with their driver training courses, why can't the government of transport finally realise that they are a bunch of backwards morons without a clue on what to do RIGHT.

Those in control over there need a pimp slap.

VSSII · 16-12-2009, 04:51 PM

I can't for the life of me understand why they are reintroducing this. It will cost a bomb, But then again they don't make any money out of cops issuing tickets anyhow. Far from it. Despite what the 'great unwashed' think and are fed by the likes of ACA and TT. I think the plane is a leftover from something like the Olympics or APEC and there's no use for it. Still think there are better ways to spend a dollar.

flappist · 16-12-2009, 06:06 PM

So they are going to operate a $700,000 aircraft at somewhere near $1000 per hour eh?

Real reason, some coppers like flying and want to play with an aircraft at someone elses expense.

How dangerous is it to have a single piston engines aircraft wandering around a few hundred feet above suburbia away from the lanes?

No ComOps at night or in IMC......

Just drive at night or on cloudy days

Yellow_Festiva · 17-12-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

So they are going to operate a $700,000 aircraft at somewhere near $1000 per hour eh?

Was talking about the very same thing at work today.

A more direct and visible police presence on the roads can be bought with the exact same money. And I think it would yield greater results too.

What will that money buy per hour I wonder in HWY Patrol cars and 2 officers per vehicle?

What would that money buy if shared between police on motor bikes?

What would that money buy in terms of scholarships for new recruits to the force?

All at work agreed that the 'eye in the sky' was the least efficient option.

Walt Kowalski · 17-12-2009, 06:22 AM

It will not last

Revenue vs Cost will not stack up

They make much more with a man in a van with a camera

But it gets them some publicity in the lead up to the silly season

And a few coppers get to fly

chris0 · 17-12-2009, 12:34 PM

I think i'm missing something..(I was only a pup in the 80's)
I understand parallax error. Plane above, speeding car below...But, they must have good devices to capture the number plate clearly. As there no other way they could ping you?
And that brings into the equation, cloud cover, area surrounding freeway etc, does it not? Anyone shed some light on this?

xtremerus · 17-12-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris0

I think i'm missing something..(I was only a pup in the 80's)
I understand parallax error. Plane above, speeding car below...But, they must have good devices to capture the number plate clearly. As there no other way they could ping you?
And that brings into the equation, cloud cover, area surrounding freeway etc, does it not? Anyone shed some light on this?

They had patrol cars on the Freeway in that area that the plane was patrolling. If the plane timed a car that was speeding, it HAD to keep a visual sight of that car 100% of the time, while they radioed, and directed the ground patrol to the target car.
Think about that stupid, costly exercise. They already had to have the patrol cars on the road at the same time

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Politicians

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flappist · 17-12-2009, 02:01 PM

I suspect it may just be a bit of spin doctor propaganda

RG · 17-12-2009, 02:18 PM

Ha, I thought they were bad here in Vic.

Actually I wonder how long before the Vic govt takes this idea on?

zdcol71 · 09-03-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I suspect it may just be a bit of spin doctor propaganda

Hang on to your hat, flappist, but that's exactly what I see this as, as I did when last it was used.(I still reserve the right to disagree with you on any other matter)!!

GT-E · 17-12-2009, 02:20 PM

The cameras in a police helicopter can read a number plate at 1000m day and night, so I do not think a plane would have a problem.
This is a waste of money however, just another example of our pathetic NSW government.
ALP = NFI

Airmon · 08-03-2010, 11:54 PM

Drove past a new sign on the F5 Freeway today (Hume Highway). One of the white and blue Speed camera type signs "Aerial Patrols in this area" or something to that effect.

With white strips every 500m of the freeway. Seems a bit pointless when on the same stretch of road Highway patrol regularly sit in the bushes where they can't be seen until you're right on top of them.

I suppose it will however stop that information being sent over CB radios.

It's also a bit hard to look up for planes as Camden Airport and the Sky divers at Picton are near the same stretch of road!

deesun · 09-03-2010, 08:23 AM

I remember about a month after the patrols were announced they hadn't had one in the sky. Bad weather, operators day off, pilots mrs sick so he has to stay home and mind the kids all mean it will only be in the sky once a month if that. What a waste of money and resources.

ltd · 09-03-2010, 08:30 AM

It's a crock. A mate of mine works at a camden flying school and was approached to cost a 206 for the job; never heard from them again. He knows every company out there and neither camden nor bankstown have supplied any 206 to the NSW police, the RTA nor the NSW government. Methinks a little spin doctoring to try and slow people down.

Airmon · 10-03-2010, 11:21 PM

Well it works somewhat.
This morning, peak hour was sitting at around 110 in the left lane and 120 (I guess) in the right, after the sign the left seemed to drop to 100 and the right to 110.

Its in both directions aswell.

Just the thought I think will put some people off. However it didn't stop the bloke in one ute doing at least 140 this afternoon through the area.