HSV not worried about S/Charged FPV's

CAMS290 · 23-02-2010, 08:01 PM

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2010...-falcons-18391

Holden Special Vehicles has not hit the "panic" button, despite strong rumours that Ford Performance Vehicles is about to end Holden's almost 40-year domination in the V8 power stakes.

FPV is poised to introduce a range of supercharged 5.0-litre V8s in July this year, once the current 5.4-litre is discontinued because it will not meet new emissions requirements introduced mid year.

But the boss of HSV Phil Harding says it is business as usual for Holden's performance car division.

"We're focused on our customer segment and we've got a great program ahead of us," he told the Carsales Network at the launch of the new price-leader GXP sedan and ute models (pictured) in Melbourne today.

"I don't comment on [the supercharged FPV Falcons] because first of all it's only a rumour. And, if it happens and it's no longer a rumour, you'll also find an answer from me that looks at the broad segment of our customer base and not just one other player in the market."

When asked if HSV feared a changing of the guard may be imminent once FPV ends Holden's domination in V8 performance with the new supercharged 5.0-litre V8s due in July, Harding told the Carsales Network: "Well, there has been a changing of the guard. Audi sales have gone up enormously and I'm looking upwards at my competition, not downwards."

Magazine reports have indicated that FPV's new supercharged engines could have up to 600Nm of torque -- 50Nm more than HSV's highest output.

Torque, the measure of an engine's ability to overcome resistance, is regarded as more important than power when it comes to acceleration, particularly in large performance sedans.

When asked if FPV may have an advantage because its annual production volumes are roughly half of HSV's volume, and therefore FPV is more easily able to perform such boutique modifications as supercharging, Harding said: "Sometimes they sell a third of our volume ... [but] you're asking me to make a comment about another manufacturer and I'm not going to do that."

When asked the same question again, he said: "I think what we've done in the past three or four of years has been exciting and I think the next three or four years are also pretty exciting, so I don't look at what anyone else does."

When asked if HSV had hit a panic button, and had expedited a shipment of supercharged 6.2-litre V8s from General Motors powertrain division in Detroit to HSV for local evaluation, or considered doing a local supercharged engine via its Walkinshaw Performance division, Harding said: "Do you really think I would hit a panic button? Look, we are very confident with where we are heading. We are rightly proud of our cars and HSV customers have nothing to fear.

"When I look into the GM parts bin, I think I'm very fortunate because it's a bit like walking into Toys R Us, there are so many engines and so much technology available to us.

"But it isn't just about what powerplant drives the car. As you can see with E2 we are interested in a range of performance driving technology.

"A HSV has to have the look, driver enthusiasm and it has to have performance. Those three things are core values and we try to address all three."

When it was suggested this comment sounded similar to Ford's party line for many years about its cars being "not all about power" (because Ford V8s have typically had a power deficit), Harding said: "I didn't say that. I said our cars need all of the above, and I think our cars are pretty powerful already."

Harding may have a point. For the past few years, the turbocharged FPV F6 sedan has recorded similar or faster acceleration times than HSV's best V8, and yet HSV sales have not been adversely affected by this.

No special GTS-R either that was speculated by Wheels Magazine, according to this report.
http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2010...says-hsv-18390

flappist · 23-02-2010, 08:10 PM

What else would you expect them to say........

HSE2 · 23-02-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

What else would you expect them to say........

"The FPV product is one that we respect immensely. It has forced us to increase our focus on total engineering to move away from the single minded mentality of yesteryear.

We sincerely wish Rod and all the boys out at Glennbarry the very best with their new offering with whatever than entails.

If I can turn the attention to the great offerings of HSV for one moment. As we enter the second half of the year you will notice and embrace a new corporate direction that we feel will be applauded by the media and our customers alike.

The perception of arrogance will go, it’s as good as gone right now, if I am honest. We cant expect to be taken seriously with the likes of BMW and Audi when there is this perception of aloofness hanging over our heads.

That's an attitde shift that comes from the top and thats me. I take full responisibility for cultivating this new direction. We have a new acronym for it that will be rolled out with our updated product release in the third quarter but that commitment starts here today with you guys."

phillyc · 23-02-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

"The FPV product is one that we respect immensely. It has forced us to increase our focus on total engineering to move away from the single minded mentality of yesteryear.

We sincerely wish Rod and all the boys out at Glennbarry the very best with their new offering with whatever than entails.

If I can turn the attention to the great offerings of HSV for one moment. As we enter the second half of the year you will notice and embrace a new corporate direction that we feel will be applauded by the media and our customers alike.

The perception of arrogance will go, it’s as good as gone right now, if I am honest. We cant expect to be taken seriously with the likes of BMW and Audi when there is this perception of aloofness hanging over our heads.

That's an attitde shift that comes from the top and thats me. I take full responisibility for cultivating this new direction. We have a new acronym for it that will be rolled out with our updated product release in the third quarter but that commitment starts here today with you guys."

LMAO

sxckevo · 23-02-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

"The FPV product is one that we respect immensely. It has forced us to increase our focus on total engineering to move away from the single minded mentality of yesteryear.

We sincerely wish Rod and all the boys out at Glennbarry the very best with their new offering with whatever than entails.

If I can turn the attention to the great offerings of HSV for one moment. As we enter the second half of the year you will notice and embrace a new corporate direction that we feel will be applauded by the media and our customers alike.

The perception of arrogance will go, it’s as good as gone right now, if I am honest. We cant expect to be taken seriously with the likes of BMW and Audi when there is this perception of aloofness hanging over our heads.

That's an attitde shift that comes from the top and thats me. I take full responisibility for cultivating this new direction. We have a new acronym for it that will be rolled out with our updated product release in the third quarter but that commitment starts here today with you guys."

that was excellently written

G6ET8U · 23-02-2010, 08:11 PM

They can do all they like... the changing of the guard started with the F6. It will be completed with the new Coyote.

Whitey-AMG · 23-02-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HYPOG6

They can do all they like... the changing of the guard started with the F6. It will be completed with the new Coyote.

F6 certainly hasn't dimmed HSV sales figures has it...........in fact it hasn't even "severely" affected BOSS V8 sales figures.

At the end of the day any company needs to sell sell sell to make its bottom line , so changing of the guard rubbish means bugger all if the product doesn't sell and doesn't pave the way for further R & D for the next generation.

To underestimate HSV in their attempts is not a good idea.........a lot of the word slinging here is simply media hype and tripe...........Its great for FPV to have a psychological verbal advantage.......aka supercharger.........but they better back it up with a product that goes hard , steers well and handles like a dream and sells a bucket load better than HSV otherwise the changing of the guard may very well be within FPV's own management ranks.

aussie muscle · 23-02-2010, 08:18 PM

why would hsv be worried? the bogans don't like silly turbos and junk... they prefer 10 litre behemoths that get 10km to the tank... :-0

**DJM83** · 23-02-2010, 08:34 PM

Typical comment from Harding, good to see he is passionate about his brand though.
A couple of contradicting comments though.

In the same sentence

Quote:

you're asking me to make a comment about another manufacturer and I'm not going to do that

Yet

Quote:

Sometimes they sell a third of our volume

Fireblade · 23-02-2010, 08:34 PM

I don't think HSV would be worried at all with what FPV are going to do, as it is still speculation at this point, it does come down to brand loyalty for a lot of HSV/FPV buyers and thats not going to change anytime soon. I think he is right when he says they are looking more at the Beemer and Audi buyers to jump across as most FPV buyers are loyal to the brand rather than what they perceive as the best car. The power war in all reality can't last much longer before the government steps in to say enough is enough with what we have all ready. And in all reality the only difference may be quarter times as both cars have the same quality and engineering level as they stand today, or in layman terms a much of a muchness.

CFOUR · 23-02-2010, 08:41 PM

I don't see Holden as part of the market, ford has to sell me on it's new offering being better than it's old ones.

**Falcon Coupe** · 23-02-2010, 08:45 PM

Sounds like spin to me.

The first time they would have heard about it in the HSV board room it would be:
" They are bringing out what??"

The second reaction would have been to the GM engineers:

" How much more bore and stroke do we have left to play with Scotty ?"

The answer being

" I'm sorry Captain, i canna giver her anymore ! ".

**DJM83** · 23-02-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Sounds like spin to me.

The first time they would have heard about it in the HSV board room it would be:
" They are bringing out what??"

The second reaction would have been to the GM engineers:

" How much more bore and stroke do we have left to play with Scotty ?"

The answer being

" I'm sorry Captain, i canna giver her anymore ! ".

post of the year

sxckevo · 23-02-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

post of the year

second that classic

Falc'man · 24-02-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

"The FPV product is one that we respect immensely. It has forced us to increase our focus on total engineering to move away from the single minded mentality of yesteryear.

We sincerely wish Rod and all the boys out at Glennbarry the very best with their new offering with whatever than entails.

If I can turn the attention to the great offerings of HSV for one moment. As we enter the second half of the year you will notice and embrace a new corporate direction that we feel will be applauded by the media and our customers alike.

The perception of arrogance will go, it’s as good as gone right now, if I am honest. We cant expect to be taken seriously with the likes of BMW and Audi when there is this perception of aloofness hanging over our heads.

That's an attitde shift that comes from the top and thats me. I take full responisibility for cultivating this new direction. We have a new acronym for it that will be rolled out with our updated product release in the third quarter but that commitment starts here today with you guys."

Haha well written.

The question posed was "What else would you expect them to say?". Be frank, knowing HSV, would you have really expected them to say that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Sounds like spin to me.

The first time they would have heard about it in the HSV board room it would be:
" They are bringing out what??"

The second reaction would have been to the GM engineers:

" How much more bore and stroke do we have left to play with Scotty ?"

The answer being

" I'm sorry Captain, i canna giver her anymore ! ".

Pearler. I remember once reading an article when even they (Holden or HSV) were making fun of the fact they resort to these measures.

No, 7 litres is the max, apparently.

Stoney! · 23-02-2010, 08:57 PM

Turbo vehicles aren't all they are cracked up to be..... yeh sure its the easiest way to produce more torque from a smaller engine. But you will never have the sweet effortless and instantaneous response of the larger engines vehicles.....

However.... This is why I bought the golf, It's only a 1.4 but is supercharged AND turbocharged. It literally feels like and engine of a litre more capacity with no lag what so every! obviousley. Untill other makes bring out thing AMAZING twin charging technology on their smaller capacity engines, I'm not really interested. Supercharging is great but never as economical as turbo's. But turbo's have lag. Keep the V8's rolling

Stoney!

pauljh74 · 23-02-2010, 09:01 PM

HSV isn't worried because they always have a bunch of cashed up bogans loyal to the brand that we don't want tarnishing the FPV image anyway

:

kezzer · 23-02-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

HSV isn't worried because they always have a bunch of cashed up bogans loyal to the brand that we don't want tarnishing the FPV image anyway

:

If you buy FPV or HSV, by defintion you are a bogan in the eye's of most people. Non bogans buy AMG's and the like. Which is abit silly imo,

Mr12345678x · 23-02-2010, 09:46 PM

Holden = Car manufacturer
HSV = Modified Holdens and Vauxhalls

Audi = Car manufacturer
BMW = Car manufacturer
Mercedes = Car manufacturer

Elks · 23-02-2010, 10:03 PM

I hate to spoil your party biys but some of the HSV stuff makes sense to me.

The flip side is, Clearly an FPV is my weapon of choice but if the situation got so bad I couldn't buys an FPV and still be seen in public I'd be driving a 'non comparable" vehicle before I gave HSV a dime. I would not buy a HSV ever, so the only thing left would be to buy a left field alternative such as a BMW 135 or a WRX before a HSV.

On the plus side FPV if rumours are true are about to release a blown V8 which will kick HSV to the kerb.

I take mine in FPR Blue please.

T

nthnbeachesguy · 25-02-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

If you buy FPV or HSV, by defintion you are a bogan in the eye's of most people. Non bogans buy AMG's and the like. Which is abit silly imo,

I'm damn sure I saw Shane Warne sitting in a black AMG on Nepean Hwy texting whilst driving a while back. If Warney is not a bogan I must be in some parallel universe.

kezzer · 25-02-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nthnbeachesguy

I'm damn sure I saw Shane Warne sitting in a black AMG on Nepean Hwy texting whilst driving a while back. If Warney is not a bogan I must be in some parallel universe.

I don't agree with it, but saying your a bogan for driving a HSV whilst owning a FPV or vice versa is a tad silly. They are both iconic Aussie brands, similiar products with similiar power levels. Must admit you do see a few more 'bogan' looking people in HSV's, but that might just be because they sell more and FPV has a more conservative approach and don't attract as many w**ks lol, but yeh generalisations :togo:

Shane's just an extremly rich bogan, and hence can drive whatever he likes haha.

I6DOHC · 23-02-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Turbo vehicles aren't all they are cracked up to be..... yeh sure its the easiest way to produce more torque from a smaller engine. But you will never have the sweet effortless and instantaneous response of the larger engines vehicles.....

However.... This is why I bought the golf, It's only a 1.4 but is supercharged AND turbocharged. It literally feels like and engine of a litre more capacity with no lag what so every! obviousley. Untill other makes bring out thing AMAZING twin charging technology on their smaller capacity engines, I'm not really interested. Supercharging is great but never as economical as turbo's. But turbo's have lag. Keep the V8's rolling

Stoney!

errr....driven any of the the latest xr6/F6's lately? Even better....how about latest Porsche 911 Turbo (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...0219-ol4t.html)

mik · 24-02-2010, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Turbo vehicles aren't all they are cracked up to be..... yeh sure its the easiest way to produce more torque from a smaller engine. But you will never have the sweet effortless and instantaneous response of the larger engines vehicles.....

However.... This is why I bought the golf, It's only a 1.4 but is supercharged AND turbocharged. It literally feels like and engine of a litre more capacity with no lag what so every! obviousley. Untill other makes bring out thing AMAZING twin charging technology on their smaller capacity engines, I'm not really interested. Supercharging is great but never as economical as turbo's. But turbo's have lag. Keep the V8's rolling

Stoney!

i don`t think the blown and turbo`ed thing is all that new, the old 2 stroke gm diesels had it as far as i know back in 1960`s .

Stoney! · 24-02-2010, 03:31 AM

Supercharger works off a clutch, only chimes in when you buried the pedal or to cover up turbo lag... BRILLIANT!

By the way an article not tooooo long back was GM talking of their new small block V8 with DOHC, Variable valve timing, active fuel management, and direct injection. I'm sure they know how to whack two turbos or a supercharger in it...

Give it time and HSV may be fighting back with a more sophisticated weapon.

Stoney!

XR6_661 · 24-02-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Give it time and HSV may be fighting back with a more sophisticated weapon.

Stoney!

This is the direction I think it will go in.

cosmo20btt · 24-02-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6_661

This is the direction I think it will go in.

Do you think HSV is going to dump the Stone age engine for some thing that will actually be sophisticated?

ltd · 24-02-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoney!

Turbo vehicles aren't all they are cracked up to be..... yeh sure its the easiest way to produce more torque from a smaller engine. But you will never have the sweet effortless and instantaneous response of the larger engines vehicles.....

Stoney!

Sorry, have to disagree with you there.

The G6ET Spot · 24-02-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Sorry, have to disagree with you there.

What worries me is that you either knew where to find that photot. Or worse still you already had in your files

HO 3 · 24-02-2010, 01:19 PM

From my experience your either a Ford guy or Holden guy, its kind of how you are brought up so I dont think HSV will be too worried with what FPV are supposedly going to do.....If we do choose another brand that we can afford its my experience its usually something better and Euro anyway. The default performance engine has always been the V8 but times are well and truely changing and for many Ford/FPV enthusiasts Coyotes direct competition will actually come from within their own camp namely the F6 which in it self is a good thing because it raises the performance bar so much higher than any perceived competition with the HSV brand itself.

Cheers Mick