Victorian toll worst in five years

[vztrt]

While it is still early days, with all the laws that have been passed to reduce the road toll, it seems its not really working. Maybe its time to look at different avenues to reduce the road toll.....nah the government will just make the laws tougher as that is the 'only' way to go about it for our safety.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/vi...0328-r4uo.html

Victorian toll worst in five years
March 28, 2010 - 4:51PM

Victoria is heading for its worst road toll in more than five years, with five people killed in accidents at the weekend.

Four of the five smashes involved speed, with one 19-year-old P-plater dying after he drove into a pole at 160kmh in an 80kmh zone near Geelong early on Sunday.

Deputy Commissioner Ken Lay said young man's passengers - a 14-year-old girl and two 19-year-old men - were lucky to survive the crash on Anakie Road, at Lovely Banks.

"We had a 20-year police veteran at the scene who described it as the worst crash he'd ever seen," he told reporters in Melbourne on Sunday.

"(Driving at) 160 in an 80km zone, look, there is only going to be one result, particularly when you put inexperience into the mix.

"This is the third crash this year involving a young P-plate driver driving at extremely high speeds."

The girl and one of the men, both seriously injured, were airlifted to the Royal Melbourne Hospital.

The other passenger, who was thrown from the car, was taken to Geelong Hospital with minor injuries.

Mr Lay said it had been a horrendous year on the roads so far, with daily fatalities.

"Every day we're getting a fatal - if that's the case we'll end up with 365," he said.

"People need to understand that if they're going to take risks on the road, if they're going to travel at inappropriate speeds, people are going to die."

Mr Lay said he still hoped to keep this year's road toll under the 300-mark but it would be tough considering that at 78, the toll is already 11 more than at the same time last year.

"We are now on track for our worst road toll for more than five years," Mr Lay said.

He warned that police would launch the largest road operation ever on Thursday, leading into the Easter break.

Some 4000 police, up 500 on last year's Easter operation, will be out on the roads breath-testing divers and checking their speeds.

Two men died in separate crashes on country Victorian roads on Saturday.

A man in his 50s was driving a replica Cobra convertible east on Three Bridges Road, Horsham, when he lost control, causing the car to roll and hit a drain.

His 23-year-old passenger freed himself from the upturned vehicle.

Earlier, a 52-year-old man died after his motorcycle and a van crashed on the Pyrenees Highway at Elphinstone, in central Victoria.

His 40-year-old female passenger was airlifted to The Alfred hospital in a critical condition.

A pedestrian was hit on Friday night at the intersection of Charles and Carrigg streets in Dromana. He was taken to the Royal Melbourne Hospital but died on Saturday.

A man in his 30 died after coming off his motorcycle while riding along the beach at Rosebud West, south of Melbourne.

He was riding a dirt bike when he fell off and landed face down in the water just before midnight on Saturday.

His death did not add to the state's road toll because the accident did not occur on a public road.

AAP

[g220ba]

At some point common sense will step forward but unfortunetly that will be way too late for many people. Driver training is the no.1 problem in this country. You are trained to pass the test not trained to drive correctly.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by 84ltd

Driver training is the no.1 problem in this country. You are trained to pass the test not trained to drive correctly.

Therein lies a large component of the problem. Drivers (especially at risk new ones) are able to pass an academic test and are, at best; provided minimal instruction on how to manipulate controls and move an "appliance" from A to B.

How to do a reverse park and hill start may have been a minimal competency requirement in the 80's or previously but with far FAR more cars on the roads and cars capable of higher speeds etc. it is a archaic and anachronistic system that has needed a bomb under it for years.

Roadcraft, vehicle dynamics, etiquette (ie: playing well with others), emergency braking / hazard avoidance SHOULD be the most significant components of driver training / licensing competencies.

It won't save everyone or magically cure stupidity...but jeez it would help a lot.

[Silver Ghia]

Not surprising really. There are more vehicles on the road so the number would naturally increase, also you do get a variance with these statistical situations, so it won't just go down all the time when measures are being taken to reduce the toll (like more safer cars being on the road).

But yes, the government will only clamp down further regardless, disregarding that its mainly caused by far excessive speed over the existing speed limits that has appeared often recently in the media headlines.

That Cobra driver, wonder what happened there?

[joolz]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Not surprising really. There are more vehicles on the road so the number would naturally increase

This should not be an increase for the amount of cameras on the roads as the amount of main roads has increased only slightly but just the volume of vehicles passing through them has significantly increased. Its simply to the Vig Gov the more cameras installed the more $$$$. Using the speed kills spin is coming undone as the data is now showing as the more cameras installed the toll is not decreasing. Its time to find the real root cause like fatigue and boredom of too slower speed limits on open Hwys that are fit for atleast 110-120km/h.

[Copie]

Excellent, and with the Easter weekend coming up, all the idiot unseasoned drivers attempting to do 1000km after a full days work the toll will add up again.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by Copie

Excellent, and with the Easter weekend coming up, all the idiot unseasoned drivers attempting to do 1000km after a full days work the toll will add up again.

Yup, and those leaving on a Thursday afternoon rushing to get home, packed, and on the road so they can get to their destination before dark.

The last few Easter's that I have driven somewhere away for holiday, the roads are full of idiots. They think they are still in the city cutting everyone off on the highways.

Then come Monday after a weekend of late nights and frothies, they all rush home again.

[flappist]

Impossible.....

Safety cameras save lives and there are more cameras than there are drivers aren't there?

[joolz]

On the way to the city last night which has been a few months on the Princess Hwy its almost a camera on every intersection!. Its becoming a joke and its obviously not working apart from filling the Gov coffers. I can see soon that the economy in Vic starts to slow down as people loose their license over a petty speed infrigment and soon their job(s) as public transport also fails every day. Ive also noticed that they are installed at "apparent" black spots. There is a new camera on the South Gippsland Fwy over pass on the Princess that i have never heard of an accident in the past 7 years that ive been working down the road. But have noticed alot of congestion since it was installed due to the lighting sequence that i cop daily.

[buggo]

If this trend continues, the government will respond in one of two ways
1) increase driver training, teaching skills not rules. Teaching people how cars behave when traction's lost, braking hard,etc. General physics of a car.
They also improve road quality, and focus on more than one problem area other than speed. i.e fatigue, distractions, whatever.
2) increase speed cameras, fines, penalties, car limitions, tighter curfews, and overall have stricter regulations on the rules of driving. And raise the driving age to 35, only after taking a pledge to be safe.
And keep drilling in how speed kills. P-Platers are evil. 10 under is best.

I think I know what one is more realistic in this current climate.

[SVTVNM]

We were Detoured Saturday afternoon just out of Castlemaine on our way to Melbourne, thought it was odd that the road was closed, only to find out Saturday night that the motorcyclist killed was from my home town and a well known and respected person, I think the towns going to be in shock this week

[UNR8D]

more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,more camera's,


*wait.... its not doing a dam thing to the road toll..... SHHHHH tell them they will all die if they dont do 5 less than advised on the sign... cant have the general public think that we dont know what we are talking about, and never have*

LAY needs to get layed.... moron.

[JC]

The 3 km tolerance is working well down south, isn't it?

My theory is this: So many roads now have cameras, that everyone knows where NOT TO SPEED. So when they get on a bit of road with no cameras, they almost take it as LICENCE TO SPEED. Doesn't make it right, and I'm not saying if they took all cameras down there'd be no speeding, but I believe that putting more actual real police on the roads, with a reasonable tolerance (3km/h IMO is unreasonable - 10% is reasonable) is the way to go.

I wonder if anyone's ever looked at deputising "civilians" to be effectively off duty traffic policemen with the ability to issue traffic notices for speeding, seat belts, phones etc. Could be dangerous if they don't carry guns, I suppose. They could be paid a small % of the fines they issue (say 5%), and training on the traffic act couldn't be that hard, could it? OK, maybe not a practical idea, but imagine if say even 1/10 of the population was deputised as such; every driver would be wondering whether the car next to him, in front of him etc was a traffic cop, and maybe people would slow down. Wouldn't stop the dimwits doing their speeding at 1am on a deserted public road though!

Think I just talked myself out of such a fanciful idea, but it's a better idea than 3km/h tolerance, bugger all real coppers on the road, and cameras issuing fines that turn out to be found inaccurate which tends to tell young idiots (sorry to generalise, but you don't hear of many 30+ drivers doing 160 in 80 zones) that even if they get caught by a camera they'll get off (at least that's what they believe).

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by JC

So many roads now have cameras, that everyone knows where NOT TO SPEED. So when they get on a bit of road with no cameras, they almost take it as LICENCE TO SPEED.

That's why they are now introducing Timed Cameras. they time you along a length of freeway. if you get across it faster than a set time, you get a ticket, because you must have sped.

...were lucky to survive the crash on Anakie Road, at Lovely Banks.

anarkie road, that sounds familiar.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

That's why they are now introducing Timed Cameras. they time you along a length of freeway. if you get across it faster than a set time, you get a ticket, because you must have sped.


anarkie road, that sounds familiar.

:Up_to_som :eclipsee_

[Full Noise]

We all know that cameras don’t work. That’s well and truly proven.

My suggestion would be to rip half of them out and replace them with “old fashioned” coppers who actually patrol the roads, instead of just turning up after the accidents and to bring back a sensible speed tolerance of 10% so people actually spend more time watching where they’re going instead of their bloody speedo.

Forget about the “unmarked” cars and just keep them visible, like in the old days, lol.

We all know that the problem is that state governments are addicted to the money that these “safety cameras” bring in, whereas staff cost big money, so we know what wins. I live in a quiet neighbourhood and in the last four and a half years, I’ve never seen a police car on patrol, not one. There’s a huge police shortage down here and that only means on thing, more cameras.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

We all know that cameras don’t work. That’s well and truly proven.

My suggestion would be to rip half of them out and replace them with “old fashioned” coppers who actually patrol the roads, instead of just turning up after the accidents and to bring back a sensible speed tolerance of 10% so people actually spend more time watching where they’re going instead of their bloody speedo.

Forget about the “unmarked” cars and just keep them visible, like in the old days, lol.

We all know that the problem is that state governments are addicted to the money that these “safety cameras” bring in, whereas staff cost big money, so we know what wins. I live in a quiet neighbourhood and in the last four and a half years, I’ve never seen a police car on patrol, not one. There’s a huge police shortage down here and that only means on thing, more cameras.

i agree with you mate, i`m in northern burbs , we do see the odd booze bus and the odd patrol car but no where near often enough for the traffic on this road, i`m not far off mahoneys rd and it has been a speeders paradise for years but not too worry they have put cameras at the traffic lights at its extremities : , i don`t think they will ever let go of the camera`s, they don`t really care about the road toll (the politicians ) they know that as the population increases they will get more revenue, the police are just doing what they are told(the party line).

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

i agree with you mate, i`m in northern burbs , we do see the odd booze bus and the odd patrol car but no where near often enough for the traffic on this road, i`m not far off mahoneys rd and it has been a speeders paradise for years but not too worry they have put cameras at the traffic lights at its extremities : , i don`t think they will ever let go of the camera`s, they don`t really care about the road toll (the politicians ) they know that as the population increases they will get more revenue, the police are just doing what they are told(the party line).

I've seen a few blitz on Mahoneys rd. Also an unmarked cop car sits near the old Peters factory quite regulary. Or there is a speed camera on the Edgers rd intersection (normally near the Bank west building).

[RG]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

We all know that cameras don’t work. That’s well and truly proven.

My suggestion would be to rip half of them out and replace them with “old fashioned” coppers who actually patrol the roads, instead of just turning up after the accidents and to bring back a sensible speed tolerance of 10% so people actually spend more time watching where they’re going instead of their bloody speedo.

Forget about the “unmarked” cars and just keep them visible, like in the old days, lol.

We all know that the problem is that state governments are addicted to the money that these “safety cameras” bring in, whereas staff cost big money, so we know what wins. I live in a quiet neighbourhood and in the last four and a half years, I’ve never seen a police car on patrol, not one. There’s a huge police shortage down here and that only means on thing, more cameras.

The problem with your idea is that while it WILL work, it won't make money and we can't have that now can we? :

[ReVd_uP]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

We all know that cameras don’t work. That’s well and truly proven.

My suggestion would be to rip half of them out and replace them with “old fashioned” coppers who actually patrol the roads, instead of just turning up after the accidents and to bring back a sensible speed tolerance of 10% so people actually spend more time watching where they’re going instead of their bloody speedo.

Forget about the “unmarked” cars and just keep them visible, like in the old days, lol.

We all know that the problem is that state governments are addicted to the money that these “safety cameras” bring in, whereas staff cost big money, so we know what wins. I live in a quiet neighbourhood and in the last four and a half years, I’ve never seen a police car on patrol, not one. There’s a huge police shortage down here and that only means on thing, more cameras.

Make copy of that post and staple it to the egg head sitting up in his office making all the decisions!!! You're spot on mate

[mik]

easter has been a crappy time for years to be on the road, in actual fact its a good time to stay home, i`d say the problem with drivers is also an attitude problem, people think it is their right to drive how they please and they own the road, lets face it getting a licence is too cheap and too easy, i`m gunna get flamed for this but.......imagine if a licence cost 5 grand, people would not be in a hurry to lose it, the current attitude is lose a few points ....big deal, lose it for 3 months big deal i had a good time loseing it , mark my words , hit people were it hurts the hip pocket they would slow down........ a couple of hundred dollar fine or 3 hundred is not enough, i gaurantee you the person that pays out 5 k for licence (except for a millionaire) would be thinking twice about screwing up again.

[Bucknaked]

Driver training won't work. Young drivers will think they are now trained, they can reach greater speeds because they now have the skills. Just like sex eduication in schools doesn't work. Teen pregnancy's still happen. Drug education, people still become additicts. Cigarettes, booze and whatever else. You can't change human nature.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Driver training won't work. Young drivers will think they are now trained, they can reach greater speeds because they now have the skills...You can't change human nature.

Well, I understand your pessimism but I think that that in general it would benefit the majority if not 90% or so.

The minority of which you speak (the indesructible ones) will always believe their ambitions are in tune with their abilities and they are the ones that no amount of legislation and training will cure. Only that epiphany whilst laying in a hospital bed afterward or sitting in a police station dock will lead to that sort of driving attitude adjustment.

It would seem to me that doing nothing other than 'throwing' pointless and excessive amounts of speed detection devices, legislation that no one pays attention to and apathetic parents / trainers / instructors is hardly helping. Hence the point and existence of this very thread.

At least higher competencies could (in that split second decision moment) save a life or two instead.

Seems rather obvious to me, but I may be alone in my naive thinking.

[UNR8D]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Driver training won't work. Young drivers will think they are now trained, they can reach greater speeds because they now have the skills. Just like sex eduication in schools doesn't work. Teen pregnancy's still happen. Drug education, people still become additicts. Cigarettes, booze and whatever else. You can't change human nature.

they already think they are the best drivers in the world regardless of training, at least with training it might prompt them to think, and if that common sense doesn't work then at least they have some skill set when things go pear shaped, becasue at this point in time they have none.

[GK]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Driver training won't work. Young drivers will think they are now trained, they can reach greater speeds because they now have the skills. Just like sex eduication in schools doesn't work. Teen pregnancy's still happen. Drug education, people still become additicts. Cigarettes, booze and whatever else. You can't change human nature.

My suspicion why such programs in schools don't work is that they focus on giving information to students, often totally devoid of moral and character training.

It takes someone of very strong character to resist being goaded on by mates in a car. It takes someone of strong character to not do drugs, have sex in inapropriate ways, etc, etc.

Information about drugs, sex and the dangers of blah, blah, blah doesn't really do much to shape the character and moral framework of people.

GK

[LTDHO]

It started off well (low) and is getting worse.

No shock really.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

It started off well (low) and is getting worse.

No shock really.

Well, not necessarily getting worse yet - just going around in circles as they always do (re: no shock). But your right it will invariably deteriorate.

Even detractors and antagonists know or at the very least have an inkling of what is 'the right thing to do' when it comes to driving / traffic / road safety; but will ignore it or suffer the belief that rules / reg's / legislation do not apply to them. Often, said rules may not but they are there to kinda attempt to abate carnage & bedlam.

And they will always have differing opinions on public forums; it's what makes the world go 'round.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Well, not necessarily getting worse yet - just going around in circles as they always do (re: no shock). But your right it will invariably deteriorate.

Even detractors and antagonists know or at the very least have an inkling of what is 'the right thing to do' when it comes to driving / traffic / road safety; but will ignore it or suffer the belief that rules / reg's / legislation do not apply to them. Often, said rules may not but they are there to kinda attempt to abate carnage & bedlam.

And they will always have differing opinions on public forums; it's what makes the world go 'round.

Very true... in the same way some people think a green light means GO at any cost regardless of anyone or anything else, while others see a green light as "proceed with caution if safe to do so".....

Its all about perception and attitude.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Very true... in the same way some people think a green light means GO at any cost regardless of anyone or anything else, while others see a green light as "proceed with caution if safe to do so".....

Its all about perception and attitude.

Exactly.

[LTDterri]

Must agree with many comments here, Camera's dont work, most of us know where they sit and look out for them and watch our speed more so in these spots. Driver training and the simple fact the Victorian Government does not have enough police on the roads to act as a deterant any more.