Ecoboost I-4 Territory?

[jpd80]

2011 Ford Territory EcoBoost Spied
By Paul Maric | May 24th, 2010
After announcing plans to introduce a 2.0-litre four-cylinder variant of Ford’s global EcoBoost engine in the locally built Falcon, Ford has been busted testing the Ford Territory with the same 2.0-litre EcoBoost engine.
The 2.0-litre four-cylinder EcoBoost engine is expected to produce upwards of 185kW, in addition to 350Nm of torque. The engine features Twin-Independent Variable Cam Timing (Ti-VCT) and a turbocharger to extract the most from the engine, giving it V6 power credentials with four-cylinder fuel economy.

Placing the engine in the Territory is a logical move to further supplement the Territory range in the years to come. Once finalised, Ford will offer the Territory with a variant of Land Rover’s 2.7-litre twin-turbocharged diesel engine (as exclusively revealed by CarAdvice), in addition to a Euro IV compliant 4.0-litre I6 engine.
When asked about the plans to introduce an EcoBoost engine in the Ford Territory, Acting Ford Communications Manager, Todd Nissen told CarAdvice:

Mr Nissen was further quizzed about whether Ford was testing the EcoBoost engine in the Territory for possible future use, he said:

Further to the news about the EcoBoost being tested in the 2011 Ford Territory, these spy photos also revealed a rehashed front end for the ageing Australian SUV. The photos reveal the use of halogen projector headlights, with upper models predictably picking up High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlights.

As mentioned in our recent article about the 2011 Ford Territory, suppliers for components of the rear end have delayed the testing of full production vehicles. The issue is expected to be resolved in time for the vehicle’s release in early 2011. Ford are expected to show the vehicle at this year’s Sydney International Motor Show.

Looks like case of Ford gathering real world data on an Ecoboost I-4 Territory,
no better way than comparing it to the I-6 petrol and V6 diesel versions.

That doesn't mean that they will actually offer an Ecoboost I-4 in the Territory but,
if head office is making funding available to use the engine, who knows........

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Looks like case of Ford gathering real world data on an Ecoboost I-4 Territory,
no better way than comparing it to the I-6 petrol and V6 diesel versions.

That doesn't mean that they will actually offer an Ecoboost I-4 in the Territory but,
if head office is making funding available to use the engine, who knows........

It makes sense if there has to be an engine which eventually replaces the I6.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It makes sense if there has to be an engine which eventually replaces the I6.

No thats the V6 and thats MAYBE after 2015 IF the one ford policy goes ahead the way Jez Spinks understands it.

[jpd80]

Nothing like reminding Dearbon of what they passed up in choosing FWD/AWD,
RWD vehicles with I-4 Ecoboost, Diesel engines, I-6/V6 and V8 engines.

The more Ford Australia can build into Falcon and Territory's portfolio, the better...

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Nothing like reminding Dearbon of what they passed up in choosing FWD/AWD,
RWD vehicles with I-4 Ecoboost, Diesel engines, I-6/V6 and V8 engines.

The more Ford Australia can build into Falcon and Territory's portfolio, the better...

My only concern is line complexity & engineering.
Engines : I4T, I6, I6Li, I6T, V8, V8SC and V6TD.
Gearboxes : T6 Manual, ZF, ZF Premium & DSG.

Combinations Auto/DSG : I4T & DSG, I6/I6Li & ZF, V6TD & ZF, I6T/V8/V8SC & ZF Premium.
Combinations Manual : I6, I6T, V8, V8SC

Still, there should be something for everyone!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by phillyc

My only concern is line complexity & engineering.
Engines : I4T, I6, I6Li, I6T, V8, V8SC and V6TD.
Gearboxes : T6 Manual, ZF, ZF Premium & DSG.

Combinations Auto/DSG : I4T & DSG, I6/I6Li & ZF, V6TD & ZF, I6T/V8/V8SC & ZF Premium.
Combinations Manual : I6, I6T, V8, V8SC

Still, there should be something for everyone!

Phil, I remember Marin Burela being rather cryptic about changes to Falcon for Euro 4
and implying that there may be a better time to align as many changes as possible.
Not saying that Ford will ever make a production EB I-4 Territory but maybe some cross over
of V6 TDCI and EB I-4 is being analysed to satisfy all the chiefs that every option is being explored..

If the new FWD/AWD Explorer isn't a success the chiefs might forced to re evaluate their plans...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Ghiadude

No thats the V6 and thats MAYBE after 2015 IF the one ford policy goes ahead the way Jez Spinks understands it.

Yeah makes sense, just havnt heard about the V6 and Ford AU for a while now. Seems to be a lot of focus on the EcoBoost 4.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Yeah makes sense, just havnt heard about the V6 and Ford AU for a while now. Seems to be a lot of focus on the EcoBoost 4.

Not surprisingly, the taller and wider V6 didn't fit so well but the I-4 has plenty of room.
Being taller and wider, V6 Falcon needed mods to inner tower aprons and different bonnet bulge.
If the I-6 scores DI, I doubt you will hear much more about the V6 in this product cycle (2015).

[Gaz]

Going to be having a good laugh when the EB-4 is in the falcon - there's gonne be enough room to stand in the bay while working on the motor :-)

While the EB-4 is a great motor, I think I would have preferred to see the diesel side by side with the I6. I'd assume the diesel would pip the EB for economy?

[Luke Plaizier]

I'd read somewhere that an Ecobooste engine has been confirmed for the F150. I'd imagine that would be up there in weight in comparison to Territory. It's a bit bigger all round. The Expedition is based off the F150 and is noticeably bigger than the Explorer.

However, I'm wondering if that's the 3.5 Ecoboost....


Lukeyson

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I'd read somewhere that an Ecobooste engine has been confirmed for the F150.

Yep, and one journalist breached the embargo and released information a little too early. It's still under embargo, but looks like Ford hasn't forced the article to be removed.

http://farmindustrynews.com/trucks/0...oboost-engine/

[Luke Plaizier]

OK, found it. F-150 is the V6 after all. But Explorer gets the EBI4T and it is WAY heavier than a Territory.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/12/s...ps-production/

2010 Ford Explorer AWD is about 6300lbs/2850kg - http://autos.aol.com/cars-Ford-Explorer-2010/specs/

2010 Ford Territory AWD is about 2100kg for 7 seater - http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...YPage&site=FOA


Lukeyson

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

OK, found it. F-150 is the V6 after all. But Explorer gets the EBI4T and it is WAY heavier than a Territory.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/12/s...ps-production/

2010 Ford Explorer AWD is about 6300lbs/2850kg - http://autos.aol.com/cars-Ford-Explorer-2010/specs/

2010 Ford Territory AWD is about 2100kg for 7 seater - http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...YPage&site=FOA


Lukeyson

Err you are looking at gross weight....
XLT 4x4 is 2100kg or so

2011 Explorer is all new too, and is based on a different platform. Whether it will be any lighter is unknown, but I dont think it will be any heavier.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

OK, found it. F-150 is the V6 after all. But Explorer gets the EBI4T and it is WAY heavier than a Territory.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/12/s...ps-production/

2010 Ford Explorer AWD is about 6300lbs/2850kg - http://autos.aol.com/cars-Ford-Explorer-2010/specs/

2010 Ford Territory AWD is about 2100kg for 7 seater - http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Conte...YPage&site=FOA


Lukeyson

No Luke, that's the all up weight of the 4x2 Explorer, the kerb weight of the Body on Frame RWD Explorer is 4,440 lbs or about 2,000 Kg about the same as RWD Territory.

The new FWD/AWD Explorer will be about the same weight as our RWD/AWD Territory models respectively.

[Nikked]

Every ford car needs to be sold with a 4 under its new plan i think. I can't see it hurting, people will go "Oh 4cyl, effciant"

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Every ford car needs to be sold with a 4 under its new plan i think. I can't see it hurting, people will go "Oh 4cyl, effciant"

No, a modern diesel would be far better.

But those sorts of figures in a 2.1 tonne SUV?! (add at least 200kg in real world driving). Can't see fuel economy and performance being that great, as well as the lifespan of the stressed engine.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Every ford car needs to be sold with a 4 under its new plan i think. I can't see it hurting, people will go "Oh 4cyl, effciant"

Is a turbo'd 4 cylinder really much more efficient then a N/A 6 in a big heavy large car though? Especially if you are say towing a trailer or caravan.

[XR Martin]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that an Alloy 4cyl with trans will probably be 100kg lighter than the current Iron I6 and trans.
And if it does go into the Territory, it will probably be 2wd only, so will be around 1900kg.
Sure it wont be the quickest thing around, but at 185kw/350nm, 6speed auto and a flat torque curve, so its not going to struggle, like for example a 1800kg Tarago with 125kw/224Nm.
Performance wise it probably wont be different to what it is now, if anything it will be better with 2 extra gears.

[FPV GTHO]

I think realistically for the future Ford need to look at a 2.5L Ecoboost 4. Theyve got the 1.6L coming online soon, and will be making 2 and 3 cyl versions as well in the future, but i think unless theyre going to either make a 3L TT then theres a pretty big gap to fill between the 2L and the 3.5L in a future where potentially every engine option will be Ecoboost.

[Brent]

A two litre 4 cylinder in a 2,100kg vehicle? Sorry, I'll happily be the odd one out here but I question the logic. Yeah, I know its turboed and performance may be OK, but at what cost? A small displacement engine such as the 2 litre will virtually ALWAYS be on boost to move a 2+ tonne vehicle around. All that stress being pushed through 4 cylinder internals, rods, big end bearings. That little turbo will be spinning its merry head off. Hmmmmm. I'm not so sure.

Fuel economy would be interesting. On a straight road with relatively little throttle modulation it would probably yield significant gains, but stop-start city driving? Or carting a bootload of gear around with 3 kids in the back? Or during hot days in summer when turbo efficiency drops-off?

Look, I know its green, and its the way of the future etc but gee, for those who can't afford to change over their cars every 3 years when the warranty runs out, I really question longevity issues here.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Brent

A two litre 4 cylinder in a 2,100kg vehicle? Sorry, I'll happily be the odd one out here but I question the logic. Yeah, I know its turboed and performance may be OK, but at what cost? A small displacement engine such as the 2 litre will virtually ALWAYS be on boost to move a 2+ tonne vehicle around. All that stress being pushed through 4 cylinder internals, rods, big end bearings. That little turbo will be spinning its merry head off. Hmmmmm. I'm not so sure.

Fuel economy would be interesting. On a straight road with relatively little throttle modulation it would probably yield significant gains, but stop-start city driving? Or carting a bootload of gear around with 3 kids in the back? Or during hot days in summer when turbo efficiency drops-off?

Look, I know its green, and its the way of the future etc but gee, for those who can't afford to change over their cars every 3 years when the warranty runs out, I really question longevity issues here.

Have a look at E250 Merc and BMW 5 Series, they've been doing it for years. Small engines in their larger cars.
No problems there.
I don't think Ford will have an issue with the EB I4.
I am keen to see this succeed. I won't be buying one but I am all for Ford bringing in some significant changes to the Falcon range to "modernise" it and change it with the market.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Have a look at E250 Merc and BMW 5 Series, they've been doing it for years. Small engines in their larger cars.
No problems there.
I don't think Ford will have an issue with the EB I4.
I am keen to see this succeed. I won't be buying one but I am all for Ford bringing in some significant changes to the Falcon range to "modernise" it and change it with the market.

And also consider the metallurgy and quality of materials used in BMW and Merc engines. Not all engines are created equal.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Brent

And also consider the metallurgy and quality of materials used in BMW and Merc engines. Not all engines are created equal.

While I do agree BMW and Merc (moreso BMW) do use better materials, I don't think Ford will put this together with band aids and chewing gum. The EB I4 has had engineering input from the Euro Ford team, specialists with these kind of engines. Being a world engine for Ford, it would have had the R&D $$ behind it to ensure it will be able to cope with all applications it will be applied to.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Brent

And also consider the metallurgy and quality of materials used in BMW and Merc engines. Not all engines are created equal.

No, there not. Ford engines are most likely just as good as the so called 'premium' euro manufacturers you have mentioned. Sure, they are built to a tighter budget (due to generally lower overall sale price, though that is amortised over more units), but that tends to affect fuel burn and/or HP, NOT reliability. The waranties on euro cars are all that impressive last time i checked, in fact its the supposedly 'unreliable' koreans that have the best warranties.....

You can easilly claim that due to their larger R&D budget (as % of overall outlay at least) the euros will be the 'first' to introduce new tech. But anyone familiar with how Ford (and most decent multinational car companies at that) goes about developing its engines, including testing, would scoff at the suggestion that they couldn't match BMW/Merc for engine reliability. The laws of physics are the same no matter what language the engineer speaks. In fact, given a sizeable portion of the R&D work for the ecoboost was done in europe by european engineers i daren't accuse them of being 'substandard' compared to their fellow countryman working at merc/beemer. The Ford US guys aren't rubbish niether....witness 3.7V6 in the mustang, the brand new 6.7V8 diesel in the F series, or the hugely impressive Coyote 5.0 V8....

I'm not saying Ford is perfect RE engine reliabilty, we all know the stories. Nor am i saying the EB I4 is guranteed to match or outlast a nominally 'less stressed' and 'less complex' I6 NA. But in general, when it comes to engines, Ford knows what it is doing. Some other car giants (GM??), well not so much.

[Luke Plaizier]

185kw/320nm? I have an SX Territory with only 182 kW.

I have to agree with having serious question marks over why they would do it. Perhaps they are looking to differentiate the 4Cyl Territory from other models so that they can compete in a different market segment, like the 4Cyl Camry is differentiated from the Aurion and can compete in both Mid-Size and Large-Size car segments with just an engine capacity change. (Something I've always thought the Falcon should be doing with the I4T too)

Maybe the Territory's 4-Cyl little brother could be called the 'ACT' or something....it's another Territory within Australia right?

Do we dare consider that a 4Cyl in a Territory might provide enough room in the engine bay to be accompanied by a suprise? Like a Hybrid powertrain... A recent announcement regarding confidential forward product planning and allocations from the 'Green Car Innovation Fund' made me think that something special must be in the pipeline for Ford....



Lukeyson

[EgoFG]

The theory behind EB is not simply the air pressure !
It is a complete intake system designed to purpose.
Including direct injection and some boost, and electronically control all the bits to get the maximum out of the petrol it consumes.

I am not saying I am convinced, but don't dismissively call it turboed.

[Brent]

Efficiency of the design isn't being questioned. kw output per litre will also probably be most impressive. However, the engineering reality is that its a smaller, lighter engine doing the job of a normally larger unit. The stress loadings on key components will be higher if it is to do the same (or better) job of propelling the vehicle in question.

[chevypower]

That would be correct if it is structurally weaker, but cylinder displacement says nothing about how strong the block, pistons, crankshaft etc are.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by chevypower

That would be correct if it is structurally weaker, but cylinder displacement says nothing about how strong the block, pistons, crankshaft etc are.

At the end of the day it will still be working a lot harder in a Territory than what it would be in a lighter family sedan/Falcon, Mondeo.
At least it will give the ******* who have turbo timers on their daily drivers a genuine excuse to fit one, cos an EB4 Territory would be constantly on boost!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by smoo

At the end of the day it will still be working a lot harder in a Territory than what it would be in a lighter family sedan/Falcon, Mondeo.
At least it will give the ******* who have turbo timers on their daily drivers a genuine excuse to fit one, cos an EB4 Territory would be constantly on boost!

A turbo timer isn't needed with a water cooled centre bearing.