RWD Camry?

flappist · 20-12-2010, 12:11 PM

Lexus have released a new model that is quite interesting in that it is priced well in the Australian market and is REAR WHEEL DRIVE.

The IS350 is a 6 cylinder sedan with ballpark performance to a G6ET, legendry Lexus build quality and a RRP of about $57k.

While I suspect it is more aimed at Merc/BMW/Audi I wonder just how many potential G6ET/Calais sales it mght steal and if it does push into that market will there be an up market model between it and the ISF than might work against entry FPV/HSVs.

It is good to see some manufacturers going against the FWD "white goods" trend that has been growing steadily over the last 20 years.

Wretched · 20-12-2010, 12:22 PM

57k? i'd say more close to 75k

flappist · 20-12-2010, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

57k? i'd say more close to 75k

Yeh true, I just went off the back of a car mag that showed basic price before onroads. I just looked at carsales and they start in the high 60s and go up from there.

So I then looked up a new $70k GT and they are all $80k++ and the GTP/GTE are $90k.

Nice toys are getting expensive.......

GavL · 20-12-2010, 12:36 PM

IS200, IS250 (and now IS350) have all been RWD or AWD in some countries.

Entry model IS350 starts at $67k RRP (http://lexus.com.au/is350/pricing). The entry model IS250 starts at $56k RRP (http://lexus.com.au/is250/pricing).

Yellow_Festiva · 20-12-2010, 01:37 PM

Isn't the IS350 a largish medium sized car?

I think it won't steal tooo many sales from Fords large prestige / performance sedans to be honest.

I think Lexus buyers are of a certain ilk that meant that even if Ford offered the same level of performance / equipment etc and was 10 grand less it wouldn't be enough to sway buyers. As sad as it may sound.

Besides, Toyota has had a handful of large RWD sedans on sale in other markets for ages, there must be a reason they didn't decide to bring them here (perhaps they would steal sales from Lexus??)

3vXT · 22-12-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I think Lexus buyers are of a certain ilk that meant that even if Ford offered the same level of performance / equipment etc and was 10 grand less it wouldn't be enough to sway buyers. As sad as it may sound.

I must be part of that ilk too then because i'd happily pay 10K extra for a falcon built by Lexus

Poetic Justice · 20-12-2010, 01:52 PM

Toyota more so think they can dictate the market, not respond to what they want.

UNR8D · 20-12-2010, 01:57 PM

They are smaller 'slightly' than a falcon, was the main reason for my old man opting to buy one over a G6ET, so to say the 2 dont get crossed shopped isnt exactly correct.

Lexus got scared after the IS300 being priced out of the market, but has finaly made a return, and for an atmo V6 the results are impressive, and after sales service is beyond what you would expect in this price range.

Yellow_Festiva · 20-12-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNR8D

They are smaller 'slightly' than a falcon, was the main reason for my old man opting to buy one over a G6ET, so to say the 2 dont get crossed shopped isnt exactly correct.

The IS350 almost 400mm shorter, 70mm narrower and weighs 100kg less than a Falcon. An IS350 is pretty much the size of a Lancer give or take a few mm (but weigh almost 300kg MORE!!).

Dimensions wise, when you are talking about size categories the IS350 is definitely a medium sized car, and can no way be 'almost' a big car.

I'm actually shocked at the amount of extra weight the IS350 has over the Lancer!

flappist · 20-12-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

The IS350 almost 400mm shorter, 70mm narrower and weighs 100kg less than a Falcon. An IS350 is pretty much the size of a Lancer give or take a few mm (but weigh almost 300kg MORE!!).

Dimensions wise, when you are talking about size categories the IS350 is definitely a medium sized car, and can no way be 'almost' a big car.

I'm actually shocked at the amount of extra weight the IS350 has over the Lancer!

So it is the size of a XY falcon, are they a full size car?

400mm = 16 inches
70mm = 3 inches

Big deal, FG falcon is bigger than many fairlanes and statesmans. What does that have to say other than "you want fries with that?"

Ok, so you hate toyota and lexus. That still does not have anything to do with my original point about another new RWD model becoming available.

Yellow_Festiva · 20-12-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

So it is the size of a XY falcon, are they a full size car?

400mm = 16 inches
70mm = 3 inches

Big deal, FG falcon is bigger than many fairlanes and statesmans. What does that have to say other than "you want fries with that?"

Ok, so you hate toyota and lexus. That still does not have anything to do with my original point about another new RWD model becoming available.

I was referring to the statement made that they were only slightly smaller than the Falcon. 2-4 inches in size difference, sure, almost the same or slightly smaller. But well over a foot?

Both are family cars, as is the XY and pretty much anything that seats 5.

However, premium buyers expect RWD as almost all of the other prestige / performance marques have kept with.

A IS350 as well as the G6ET/Calais are premium performance sedans. Yes it is good that they are RWD and go against the FWD norm.

But as I have mentioned earlier, IMO they are cars that target different buyers.

svo supporter · 20-12-2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

That still does not have anything to do with my original point about another new RWD model becoming available.

You're a little slow off the mark there. These have been available for a few years now. Not sure exactly when they came out, but it was between 2000 and 2005 ish So it's not really new news.

tranquilized · 20-12-2010, 06:55 PM

The guy who runs the business downstairs from mine has an IS250, so I walk past it every day. Looks ok, but way too much like a Camry IMO. Sometimes theres a Camry parked right next to it, the styling cues are very similar. I happen to think the new Camrys look ok as well, but no car competing in the higher end of the market should ever look anything like a Camry...

As for prices, from the back of Wheels mag;

IS350 prestige $64,800
IS350 F Sport $71,800
IS350 Sports Luxury $81,300

Claimed 0-100kmh for all models - 5.6 seconds

Ford G6ET $58,990 0-100kmh 5.1 seconds (tested)
FPV F6 auto $67,890 0-100kmh 5.2 seconds (tested)

So while the G6ET is cheaper and ~~faster~~ quicker* than the Lexus, I'd definitely agree its all ballpark and a lot of people would cross-shop the two cars.

*ok so the Lexus is faster, but the Ford is quicker - more relevant in this country I'd suggest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

You're a little slow off the mark there. These have been available for a few years now. Not sure exactly when they came out, but it was between 2000 and 2005 ish So it's not really new news.

The OP was referring to the IS350 specifically, which has just been released in Australia. Your thinking of the far less powerfull IS250 (153kw v 233kw) which have been out for years as you've said. But they're over $10k more expensive and over a second slower to 100 than the N/A I6 Falcons, so dont pose the same threat to the Falcadore that Flappist is suggesting the IS350 might.

flappist · 20-12-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

You're a little slow off the mark there. These have been available for a few years now. Not sure exactly when they came out, but it was between 2000 and 2005 ish So it's not really new news.

Not in Australia they haven't.

But what is all this paranoia.

I start a thread about a new RWD model that is well under $100k and cheaper than many of the FPV/HSVs being released here and all of a sudden everyone is crapping all over it.

If no one else makes RWDs then one day Falcon and Commodore will be FWD and all the sooking in the world will make no difference whatsoever.....

I see it as a good thing and would like to see Infinity & Eunos here as well.

All it will do is lift the bar and how can that be a bad thing........

Powdered Toast Man · 20-12-2010, 01:57 PM

The IS250/350 are BMW 3 series, C class, A4 competitors. Not really in the same class as the G6ET.

I sat in the first gen IS200 when it came out years ago and I didnt actually fit in it. My head was touching the roof and I'm only 6'2". I did have a sunroof though. The latest gen IS250/350 does look to be slightly larger than the series 1 IS200.

I would love to have an IS350, or a 330 BMW, or a 130 BMW.

flappist · 20-12-2010, 02:03 PM

The point I was making was that there seem to be a gradual increase in the number of RWD sedans under $100k other than commodore and falcon.

With the second greatest paranoia on this forum being that RWD may be dropped I thought it might be a good idea to highlight it.

Swordsman88 · 20-12-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

The point I was making was that there seem to be a gradual increase in the number of RWD sedans under $100k other than commodore and falcon.

With the second greatest paranoia on this forum being that RWD may be dropped I thought it might be a good idea to highlight it.

I can see your point flappist. I think the provision of these sorts of cars (chrysler 300c etc.) is coming from a very different direction though. The local large car was a family sedan (ever growing in size) that has kept it RWD heritage due to legacy issues, public perception and of course the performance models. Its the latter that has probably secured the rwd for falcon/commy because the engineers simply can't put 300kw+ through the front end and get a good result. The Focus RS is about as far as you want to go.

The RWD cars you allude to are performance/large luxury which have always been RWD anyway. Its just that they are getting alot more afordable, and manufactuers are bringing them into the country now that the model mix is trending 'upmarket' for just about every manufacturer. Gone are the days of base models selling as the highest percentage.

I see Ford and Holden going after the lexus buyer more than the other way around. If RWD is to survive in the Falcon it will need to continue to push into the 'luxury/sports saloon' territory and leave family duties to the mondeo/tezza mix. Of course the I4T falcon will still be very competitive for family duties it just wont' save RWD as a design long term...

Poetic Justice · 20-12-2010, 02:07 PM

I see what you're saying flappist.

I know most people seem to hang **** on Toyota Aurion's here, but as far as having a bit of poke at 200kw goes (I just had one for the weekend) they are an awesome car to drive. Plenty of power.

Give the Lexus IS350 even more power and RWD, and though I haven't driven one myself I imagine it is going to be an awesome car to drive. The guys I speak to at Toyota head office, dependant on their level within the company drive Lexus' as opposed to Toyota's quite often. 2 that I spoke to recently whilst in Sydney said they were driving the new IS350 and that it's a whole lot of fun. Perhaps something to seriously consider if you're in that price bracket!

irlewy86 · 20-12-2010, 02:18 PM

The luxury end is definitely firing up. Pre-empting the return of Cadillac and Lincoln maybe?

MexicanBatman · 20-12-2010, 02:22 PM

they go pretty alright, but ignoring useless acceleration claims they are good for a 13.7 1/4mile on a 1/4 mile not magazine test @ about 100-105mph

not FGt performance but bloody impressive for a n/a 3.5L auto

although its geared for acceleration wont do 100km/h until 3rd gear and its basically an aurion motor, whilst its a nice engine, i just plain dont like V6's anymore..

Fev · 20-12-2010, 02:27 PM

We've got a IS250 on the yard at the moment and it is a dream to drive. The IS250 though is pretty gutless, i haven't had a chance to drive the 3.5L yet though.

I don't think it will have much of an impact on G6ET sales though as they are quiet different cars with different markets. Lexus is aimed more at the 30-40yr olds whereas the G6ET is the age bracket above.

dylancox · 20-12-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Lexus have released a new model that is quite interesting in that it is priced well in the Australian market and is REAR WHEEL DRIVE.

The IS350 is a 6 cylinder sedan with ballpark performance to a G6ET, legendry Lexus build quality and a RRP of about $57k.

While I suspect it is more aimed at Merc/BMW/Audi I wonder just how many potential G6ET/Calais sales it mght steal and if it does push into that market will there be an up market model between it and the ISF than might work against entry FPV/HSVs.

It is good to see some manufacturers going against the FWD "white goods" trend that has been growing steadily over the last 20 years.

RWD Camry?.. The Lexus IS is more like a RWD Corolla in terms of size

flappist · 20-12-2010, 05:39 PM

It is interesting the amount of dislike almost bordering on hatred of a motor vehicle that very few here have even seen let alone driven.

So here is an interesting fact, the IS350 is faster than every single falcon based vehicle ever sold in Australia INCLUDING the coyote GTs......

jpd80 · 20-12-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

It is interesting the amount of dislike almost bordering on hatred of a motor vehicle that very few here have even seen let alone driven.

So here is an interesting fact, the IS350 is faster than every single falcon based vehicle ever sold in Australia INCLUDING the coyote GTs......

Flappist is on a roll:

1. RRP of about $57k.......

2. So it is the size of a XY falcon, are they a full size car?.....Nope...Corolla/Focus....

3. IS350 is faster than every single Falcon based vehicle ever sold in Australia.... How confident are you??????

While I admit that the IS350 with 228 Kw/375nm 3.5 V6 is very impressive,
I cannot find a performance time to refute your last claim but would be very
interested to know just how well the IS350 performs......

I would love to see Ford and Holden do a Cortina or Torana with their corporate V6s just to see what is possible.....

flappist · 20-12-2010, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Flappist is on a roll:

1. RRP of about $57k.......

2. So it is the size of a XY falcon, are they a full size car?.....Nope...Corolla/Focus....

3. IS350 is faster than every single Falcon based vehicle ever sold in Australia.... How confident are you??????

While I admit that the IS350 with 228 Kw/375nm 3.5 V6 is very impressive,
I cannot find a performance time to refute your last claim but would be very
interested to know just how well the IS350 performs......

I would love to see Ford and Holden do a Cortina or Torana with their corporate V6s just to see what is possible.....

RRP yes it was straight out of the mag I was reading just before I started the thread.

IS350 4585 x 1800 x 1425
XY GT 4689 x 1869 x 1397
But you are right, a corolla is about the same size as a Phase 3 GTHO and the camry is bigger.

Speed, well it does 270km/h (mag tests from OS), all the FPVs are limited to 250km/h and all of the previous before that were slower including the factory standard road versions of the old GTHOs.

270km/h is about 170MPH.

So therefore it is faster than any Falcon........

jpd80 · 20-12-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

RRP yes it was straight out of the mag I was reading just before I started the thread.

IS350 4585 x 1800 x 1425
XY GT 4689 x 1869 x 1397
But you are right, a corolla is about the same size as a Phase 3 GTHO and the camry is bigger.

Speed, well it does 270km/h (mag tests from OS), all the FPVs are limited to 250km/h and all of the previous before that were slower including the factory standard road versions of the old GTHOs.

270km/h is about 170MPH.

So therefore it is faster than any Falcon........

Well played.

**DJM83** · 20-12-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

RRP yes it was straight out of the mag I was reading just before I started the thread.

IS350 4585 x 1800 x 1425
XY GT 4689 x 1869 x 1397
But you are right, a corolla is about the same size as a Phase 3 GTHO and the camry is bigger.

Speed, well it does 270km/h (mag tests from OS), all the FPVs are limited to 250km/h and all of the previous before that were slower including the factory standard road versions of the old GTHOs.

270km/h is about 170MPH.

So therefore it is faster than any Falcon........

IMO that is an irrelevent point. I still know what id buy, a GT. Have never been a real fan of Lexus except for the ISF

flappist · 20-12-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

IMO that is an irrelevent point. I still know what id buy, a GT. Have never been a real fan of Lexus except for the ISF

Yeh the IS350 is not for me either although the ISF is rather nifty.

As far as top speed being an irrelevant point, I am pretty sure the catch cry for the Phase III GTHO is "the fastest 4 door car in the world".

And what is the Bugatti Veyron's claim to fame?

The 270km/h I suspect is just the Lexus sledging BMW & Mercedes with their 250km/h limit and I have driven FPVs at 250km/h and it is quite "invigorating".

With the current trend in the political landscape maybe, just maybe a new NT government will reopen the (//) and then top speed may have its relevance returned to Australian roads.

You know, you know you never know, you know..........

MexicanBatman · 20-12-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

So therefore it is faster than any Falcon........

still wrong

i present to you the..... (insert drumroll)....

Peregrine Falcon, with a top speed of 320km/h this little bird really flies

Spinner5711 · 21-12-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

still wrong

i present to you the..... (insert drumroll)....

Peregrine Falcon, with a top speed of 320km/h this little bird really flies

If we gotta go there....

The Millenium Falcon is the quickest.