A Badge Engineered XR8?

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 10:52 AM

With all this April 1 jocularity, I couldn't help thinking something that seems kinda obvious to me.

Why can't Ford just redbage the GS as an XR8, and sell it alongside the GS at the same price?

FPV still get the sale. Ford get the XR8 badge back. There's no need to spend money on anything other than removing the GS stickers and putting the Ford badges back on.

There's no stealing of sales since a 'GS' will essentially get sold anyway. Some buyers want Ford badges on. Some want FPV badges on. Both buyers would be happy and AT NO R&D COST TO FORD OR FPV. Some might say that either the GS or XR8 badges would become diluted. But I beg to differ - I think there'd be an improvement in total volume sold. The XR8 is the brand with the better recognition anyway.

I just can't see why this couldn't be done.

Lukeyson

**Polyal** · 01-04-2011, 10:56 AM

Cost.

I cant see people forking out the dosh for an XR8 @ 60k by the time its on road. There was an internal bun fight which I dont know the full story but I reckon Ford/FPV figured they could get away with doing stuff all if they slapped a FPV badge on it.

I agree, the XR8 brand is stronger than the GS, especially with the market they need to capture in the future, not the ones dying off.

SpoolMan · 01-04-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Why can't Ford just redbage the GS as an XR8, and sell it alongside the GS at the same price?

18 months ago we were all led to believe that was going to happen, although no GS just FPV doing the XR8.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 11:01 AM

When the BA XR8 came out in 2003 it was RRP 53k. And the GS is now RRP 54k.

If a GS sells at that price, why not an identical car with an XR8 badge on the side that has identical everything else?

Lukeyson

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

When the BA XR8 came out in 2003 it was RRP 53k. And the GS is now RRP 54k.

If a GS sells at that price, why not an identical car with an XR8 badge on the side that has identical everything else?

Lukeyson

2003 BA XR8 AUTO RRP $51,050*
2011 FG GS AUTO RRP $56,990*

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 11:03 AM

FPV would just love that...

Would eat into GS sales...

The GS we have now shoudl have been XR8 at 50 kay, no if's, buts or maybes... Looking at carsales tho they are coming down in price!!

PHANTMXR6 · 01-04-2011, 11:08 AM

If someone was to 'badge engineer' an XR8 out of a GS, there'd be no difference than someone throwing FPV badges on a Falcon.

Only difference being that the owner would have paid a premium for his badged car.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 11:05 AM

Why would it eat into GS sales? With an XR8 badge on the side it still IS a GS sale. Why would FPV not like selling MORE of them?

Lukeyson

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Why would it eat into GS sales? With an XR8 badge on the side it still IS a GS sale. Why would FPV not like selling MORE of them?

Lukeyson

Because it would be a FORD badged product and not an FPV badged product, and since Ford set the pricing they would no doubt have it cheaper then the GS... It would affect FPV one way or another.

aussie muscle · 01-04-2011, 11:28 AM

The GS is over priced. bring it down a few thou and i might consider buying one.

**Luke Plaizier** · 01-04-2011, 11:30 AM

That's the point. With the one car, you satisfy those that want FORD badges AND those that want FPV badges. And if there really has to be price differentiation, FPV can slap some racoon eyes on the GS. But I'm not talking about 'someone' doing it, I'm talking about Ford doing it.

What I'm hearing is that everyone thinks that the market perceives the XR8 as being cheaper than a GS.

Well, I see two options here.

(1) The die hards who want the XR8 to be cheaper could have their way, just like those that wanted a V8 XT but didn't buy one, and there will be NO XR8 at all. Just like now.

(2) You give a little bit of thought to this and see that with almost no outlay by Ford you could have an XR8 back in the game.

Lukeyson

prydey · 01-04-2011, 11:48 AM

whats the price of a ss? xr8 needs to compete with the competition price wise or there's no point.

**kypez** · 01-04-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

That's the point. With the one car, you satisfy those that want FORD badges AND those that want FPV badges. And if there really has to be price differentiation, FPV can slap some racoon eyes on the GS. But I'm not talking about 'someone' doing it, I'm talking about Ford doing it.

What I'm hearing is that everyone thinks that the market perceives the XR8 as being cheaper than a GS.

Well, I see two options here.

(1) The die hards who want the XR8 to be cheaper could have their way, just like those that wanted a V8 XT but didn't buy one, and there will be NO XR8 at all. Just like now.

(2) You give a little bit of thought to this and see that with almost no outlay by Ford you could have an XR8 back in the game.

Lukeyson

Flame suit on!

As funny as it is, I feel nothing towards the GS badge. Being a Gen Y, I grew up with XR's and always wanted one as soon as I could afford one. The GT's came and went, but the flagship was always the XR8. First chance I got, I bought the XR8.

The XR8 was the "top" model. The GS is a "base" model. It also doesnt inspire any thought or emotion in my mind. Its like, GS. The letters have no X factor. And knowing the heritage of it being the cheaper sibling of the GT, it just doesnt do it for me. Its like saying your drive a Porcshe but its a Boxter...

I'm saving to get a GT but if the GS was actually branded XR8, I'd have upgraded I think... Dont understand why Ford would go to all the trouble of establishing a brand only to drop it for an "unknown" GS...

winovin · 01-04-2011, 12:06 PM

I really don't see the point of FPV as a separate brand, other than to copy Holden's branding. With the relatively low level of FPV sales, a large part of the FPV price premium goes toward marketing and other costs which are needlessly duplicative to those which Ford incurs.

I don't understand why Ford doesn't reintroduce a GT-HO model. The publicity generated would be huge, and that brand has value which is not being used. Although some aficionados would complain about the devaluation of the name, it would stimulate sales of other Falcon models.

**Polyal** · 01-04-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winovin

I really don't see the point of FPV as a separate brand, other than to copy Holden's branding. With the relatively low level of FPV sales, a large part of the FPV price premium goes toward marketing and other costs which are needlessly duplicative to those which Ford incurs.

I agree, I would not shed a tear if FPV was disbanded...I would only be annoyed because Ford cant seem to stabilize its performance channels.

The US Ford GT is branded as a Ford, not a SVT et al...IMO the GS should not exist as a FPV, it should be a Ford XR8 (with revised price) and FPV have the GT and F6..but I digress (only slightly).

That way more Miami's are moved and not to the determent of the GT or the FPV brand. It would be interesting to know if GS buyers are that tight on a budget or thought the GT wasn't worth the extra coin.

buggo · 01-04-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Flame suit on!

As funny as it is, I feel nothing towards the GS badge. Being a Gen Y, I grew up with XR's and always wanted one as soon as I could afford one. The GT's came and went, but the flagship was always the XR8. First chance I got, I bought the XR8.

The XR8 was the "top" model. The GS is a "base" model. It also doesnt inspire any thought or emotion in my mind. Its like, GS. The letters have no X factor. And knowing the heritage of it being the cheaper sibling of the GT, it just doesnt do it for me. Its like saying your drive a Porcshe but its a Boxter...

I'm saving to get a GT but if the GS was actually branded XR8, I'd have upgraded I think... Dont understand why Ford would go to all the trouble of establishing a brand only to drop it for an "unknown" GS...

I agree completly with this.
I know about the old GS's but they don't mean a thing to me really. An 'XR' does.
When I was younger my Dad would point out nice EL XR8's and AU1's with big bi-wing spoiler's and body kit. It probably doesn't mean much to the buying public but when i was 10 those spoilers were awesome and i wanted one bad. Maybe part of the reason I have an XR6 and not something that makes more economic sense like a Fiesta.
In 5 years when the 'GS' name is dropped again, it will have come and gone and not made an impact on anyone. It's departure I doubt will cause as much, if any, conversation as when XR8 left almost 2 years ago, and the topic is still being discussed...

I am saddened by the fact that I will never be able to buy myself a brand new XR8.

anto · 01-04-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Flame suit on!

As funny as it is, I feel nothing towards the GS badge. Being a Gen Y, I grew up with XR's and always wanted one as soon as I could afford one. The GT's came and went, but the flagship was always the XR8. First chance I got, I bought the XR8.

The XR8 was the "top" model. The GS is a "base" model. It also doesnt inspire any thought or emotion in my mind. Its like, GS. The letters have no X factor. And knowing the heritage of it being the cheaper sibling of the GT, it just doesnt do it for me. Its like saying your drive a Porcshe but its a Boxter...

I'm saving to get a GT but if the GS was actually branded XR8, I'd have upgraded I think... Dont understand why Ford would go to all the trouble of establishing a brand only to drop it for an "unknown" GS...

so you are someone that prefers Ghia to G6E then right ?

Using that logic , Ford should have used GS when they introduced the Xr8 in the first place considering it had 10 years, 69-79 as Fords afffodable sports model with all the name recognition you could want.
All thats happend now is that Ford/FPV have corrected the mistake. Grand Sport, Grant tourer....perfect !
One thing I'll cede to Holden is they hung on to their heritage with SS and GTS , even now Calais etc.. unlike Ford who are all over the place.

There is merit in what Luke is saying, although to make it a point of difference, the GS should score full FPV styling cues, front end etc.. and the current GS look becomes the XR8,..more of a povo pack.

**kypez** · 01-04-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

so you are someone that prefers Ghia to G6E then right ?

Using that logic , Ford should have used GS when they introduced the Xr8 in the first place considering it had 10 years, 69-79 as Fords afffodable sports model with all the name recognition you could want.
All thats happend now is that Ford/FPV have corrected the mistake. Grand Sport, Grant tourer....perfect !
One thing I'll cede to Holden is they hung on to their heritage with SS and GTS , even now Calais etc.. unlike Ford who are all over the place.

There is merit in what Luke is saying, although to make it a point of difference, the GS should score full FPV styling cues, front end etc.. and the current GS look becomes the XR8,..more of a povo pack.

Ghia is a luxury model and the GS/XR are sports models. Different models relating to different aspirations. So no, I dont care very much for the Ghia brand as I was never its target market. I am the target market for the XR/GS brands though.

Mistake or not, I'll be honest and say that I didnt know what the GS was and didnt bother researching it till the GS came out in BF. Truth is, a lot of people dont know the GS but there has been a culture created around the XR series (As buggo_GT mentioned, we grew up on this brand). I think the name also is good with Gen Y people as well. XR8 sounds much better to me than GS.

GT is timeless though.

I agree with your last part that the GS should get the full FPV treatment and the curved finished GS should come back down as a XR8. I bought my XR8 cause I didnt like the GT kit back in the day. Didnt like the squaring of the GT kit but loved the smoothness of the XR kit (to me at least).

**DJR-351** · 01-04-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto

Using that logic , Ford should have used GS when they introduced the Xr8 in the first place considering it had 10 years, 69-79 as Fords afffodable sports model with all the name recognition you could want.
All thats happend now is that Ford/FPV have corrected the mistake. Grand Sport, Grant tourer....perfect !
One thing I'll cede to Holden is they hung on to their heritage with SS and GTS , even now Calais etc.. unlike Ford who are all over the place.

This......

tezxr8man · 02-04-2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Flame suit on!

As funny as it is, I feel nothing towards the GS badge. Being a Gen Y, I grew up with XR's and always wanted one as soon as I could afford one. The GT's came and went, but the flagship was always the XR8. First chance I got, I bought the XR8.

The XR8 was the "top" model. The GS is a "base" model. It also doesnt inspire any thought or emotion in my mind. Its like, GS. The letters have no X factor. And knowing the heritage of it being the cheaper sibling of the GT, it just doesnt do it for me. Its like saying your drive a Porcshe but its a Boxter...

I'm saving to get a GT but if the GS was actually branded XR8, I'd have upgraded I think... Dont understand why Ford would go to all the trouble of establishing a brand only to drop it for an "unknown" GS...

I agree with this the XR6 and XR8 were something that people aspired to buy for the extra performance and the extra kit that you got with buying 1, since the BA came out Ford has diluted the XR brand down to a nothing experience,
XR6's sell as a base model allmost now and the XR8 is gone from Laziness and that's all.
The XR8 should be N/A with all the goodies or not Depending on if you want a performance car or a nice car that goes great and be a Cracker of a drive, i can't see it being too hard to do it think GS with supercharger Deleted and higher compression.
Not everyone wants a supercharged car, I kind of like a Nice snappy N/A v8

Powdered Toast Man · 01-04-2011, 12:03 PM

Why? Just buy a GS.

**DJM83** · 01-04-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

Why? Just buy a GS.

Agreed

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Agreed

A GS is too dear for a base model V8...

Not everyone wants to spend 60 kay to get what they traditionally got in an XR8 for mid 40's..

Theres alot of customers that are limited due to lease constraints and other things, they all just go buy SS's now.. No wonder Holden's selling what they are atm.

**Polyal** · 01-04-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

A GS is too dear for a base model V8...

Not everyone wants to spend 60 kay to get what they traditionally got in an XR8 for mid 40's..

Theres alot of customers that are limited due to lease constraints and other things, they all just go buy SS's now.. No wonder Holden's selling what they are atm.

That's right ss/calias are everywhere.

The 5.4 even made more power than the ss and the GM still sold well, it's a car that ticks the boxes for that segment at the right price.

Ford are on drugs if they think the xr6t can carry the load, it's proving to be an incorrect strategy (although there are many other factors in fords sales performance at the moment).

A V8 option in the falcon range won't save them, but it will sell more cars and make more money in the long term than the Miami vehicles.

Brazen · 01-04-2011, 10:31 PM

Where I live there are two Ford dealers within 75 km, the nearest FPV dealer is 5 hours away...

Bloody hell, I would have an XR8 in the showrooms tomorrow even if it was identical to the GS simply for better rural dealer coverage. Werent half of all XR8 utes sold were outside of metropolitan areas?

There are no way country boys could justify travelling that far to get a V8 ute when the local Holden shop on main street have 7 or 8 shiny brand new SS & SSV utes sitting there....

KuRT12 · 01-04-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

The 5.4 even made more power than the ss and the GM still sold well, it's a car that ticks the boxes for that segment at the right price.

Lol thats because the 5.4 was an anchor...

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Holden sell to Holden customers.

Simple observation.

Other than the $150k++ W427 no HSV has gotten even close to FPV performance for over 5 years for more money.

Right now the slowest FPV is quicker than the fastest HSV (and $30k cheaper).

Why does HSV outsell FPV?

HSV Outsell FPV due to loyalty, but i think up until the Miami they had the better package (in V8's anyway - the 6T is great, but a different buyer..)

I Myself am a Holden man overall... but I'm not that ridiculously loyal to the brand. I currently drive a VE, but i think the Miami is light years ahead of the GM engine.

I still think Holden's interior craps all over fords current one.

flappist · 01-04-2011, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

A GS is too dear for a base model V8...

Not everyone wants to spend 60 kay to get what they traditionally got in an XR8 for mid 40's..

Theres alot of customers that are limited due to lease constraints and other things, they all just go buy SS's now.. No wonder Holden's selling what they are atm.

Holden sell to Holden customers.

Simple observation.

Other than the $150k++ W427 no HSV has gotten even close to FPV performance for over 5 years for more money.

Right now the slowest FPV is quicker than the fastest HSV (and $30k cheaper).

Why does HSV outsell FPV?

Romulus · 01-04-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Holden sell to Holden customers.

Simple observation.

Other than the $150k++ W427 no HSV has gotten even close to FPV performance for over 5 years for more money.

Right now the slowest FPV is quicker than the fastest HSV (and $30k cheaper).

Why does HSV outsell FPV?

Brand loyalty.

Holden didn't walk away from their V8 customers in 1983 like Ford did. Their (Holdens) persistance and sticking with the V8 has got them (and HSV) where they are today.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-04-2011, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Holden sell to Holden customers.

Simple observation.

Other than the $150k++ W427 no HSV has gotten even close to FPV performance for over 5 years for more money.

Right now the slowest FPV is quicker than the fastest HSV (and $30k cheaper).

Why does HSV outsell FPV?

Well soon there will only be HSV...

Bit hard to say that when you have V8 only buyers.. F6 has meant jack **** to alot of guys who only wanted a V8... They went for the HSV because they got a better package, and still are.. Soon we will all be buying them because of the blind freedies that live in Campbellfield.

Hell id buy a VEII SSV Redline for 51 kay all day everyday before the quicker GS... just like i bought my FG GT over a Clubsport because it was 5 kay cheaper and had more standard features... Not everyone just buys on peformance, but if you don't offer a product then the choice is easy to make...

DanielXR8 · 01-04-2011, 02:24 PM

The GS we have now comes down the line with XR8 - GS option plastered on it, so Ford are under no illusions what a GS really is.

I think FPV looked at the development cost of Miami and the three years or so to recoup the money and went for the cheapest to build/highest profit car they could come up with and thats the current GS.

Its a nice car, but it is a base XR8 trying to sell at the old GT prices and its just not good enough. Either go for volume and sell the car as an XR8 in its current trim and high 40's price or put the value in and sell as FPV. Right now it has a foot in both camps and doesn't please a lot of people because of it.

I doubt FPV will get the sales they need to get their money back unless they do something to make the GS better value to the customer.