Diesel territory review(s)

[FGII-XR6]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/site/new...&emlist=Member

Glenn Butler road tests and reviews the Ford Territory diesel.
With fuel prices ever rising, is Ford's new turbodiesel Territory the answer for active Australian families? Carbon taxes and natural disasters are in the news. Both will push petrol prices to record highs, analysts predict, putting yet more strain on family budgets.
So, the arrival of Ford's new Duratorq turbodiesel is well-timed, even if it is years overdue. Ford claims the Territory TDCi uses 25 per cent less fuel than the straight-six petrol, and can drive 900km from Melbourne to Sydney on one tank. If so, it will save Australian families about $540 over a 15,000km year.

VALUE
Prices are up/down for the Territory range starting at $39,990 for the TX RWD with 4.0-litre petrol engine. The TS costs $46,990 and the Titanium, which replaces the Ghia, is priced from $54,990.
The diesel engine adds $3250, all-wheel drive another $5000 and is only available with the Duratorq engine. Third-row seating is an option on all models. This raises the question: does the diesel make financial sense? Keen to find out, Carsguide grabbed a Territory TS AWD and took a road trip.

DESIGN
Spotting the 2011 SZ Territory in the parking lot at Ford isn't hard. The new styling takes inspiration from Ford's Kinetic global design language. Slimmer headlights and a horizontal grille sit on a reprofiled nose which adds 27mm to Territory's overall length.
New alloys, a revised side-skirt and C-pillar give the side-profile a lift. At the rear, new taillights are similar to the next Focus, and the liftgate garnish has been removed. It is striking and fresh, though the front and rear themes aren't as cohesive as before.
Leaving Melbourne on the Hume Highway gives plenty of time to enjoy the new cabin where the Territory's evolution is most obvious. The new dashboard and centre console from the FG Falcon create a more mature ambience. The update includes Ford's first touchscreen which integrates stereo, air-con controls and Bluetooth controls.
The Territory has been a success story with 100,000 bought since 2004. And the elements that made the original Territory such a hit with families seating for up to seven, plenty of luggage space, double-action tailgate are all still here, some updated like the bin at the base of the centre stack which now has a tambour door styled after old-fashioned roll-top desks.
SAFETY
Safety also steps up; a knee airbag joins front, side and curtain airbags for a total of seven. Electronic stability control now includes an anti-rollover program.

TECHNOLOGY
The Territory's new EPAS electric steering system, which improves fuel economy by 2.5 percent, requires less effort at parking speeds, but can get caught short during three-point turns.
It's clear that Ford worked hard to make the Territory TDCi quiet. The Duratorq donk is barely audible at 110km/h. That diesel clatter is apparent when overtaking, but in a subdued way. The Territory TDCi's 2.7-litre turbodiesel V6 may have 12 percent more torque (440Nm) than the 4.0-litre six-cylinder petrol engine (391Nm), available from just 1900rpm, but it's not as quick or as responsive.
The product of a Ford/Peugeot joint-development back in 2004, it has been used to power Jaguars, Peugeots and Citroens in twin-turbo form. The Ford Territory's single-turbo version produces the same 140kW and 440Nm as it did in the 2004 LandRover Discovery.
The engine is slow to react from standstill and doesn't get going until 1800rpm. It is also doughy when called on to accelerate once moving. The six-speed gearbox, standard on all models, is smooth, but reluctant to change down. The transmission's D-perf mode offers sharper responses more in tune with driver demands, but is likely to reduce economy, so I avoid it where possible.
Towing capacity on RWD models is unchanged; 1600kg for unbraked trailers, 2300kg with the heavy duty tow pack. AWD models can tow up to 2700kg.

DRIVING
The twin towns of Albury/Wodonga come and go, and a check of the trip computer reveals that fuel consumption is worse than expected. Our 9.5L/100km average is far from Ford's 7.2L/100km ADR82/02 highway claim.
As an experiment, I slow down until the instant fuel reading stays under seven, which happens around 75-80km/h. Maintaining this speed would add 2.5 hours to our 7-hour trip. I've got a flight to make, so that's out of the question. Cruise control stays pegged to the speed limit.
We pass the landlocked submarine at Holbrook then it's a quick stop at McDonalds near Yass (well, it is a road trip) before peeling off the Hume for the Federal Hwy into Canberra. We arrive in Canberra and promptly get chased away from Parliament House by the Feds while trying to take a photo.
Territory's cruising comfort is confirmed. I have none of the aches and pains of seven hours in the saddle. The fuel economy story is less positive.
Our 9.4L/100km average for the 700km trip is well short of Ford's 7.2L/100km claim for AWD models, and even failed to match the 8.8L/100km combined cycle claim. There's just 2km left in the tank according to the trip computer, so we wouldn't have made Sydney on a single tank either.
Verdict? Territory is as versatile and practical as ever, and even more refined. The Duratorq's quietness is top-notch, but low-rpm turbo-lag and its unresponsive nature isn't, and the real-world fuel economy we achieved on this easy long-distance drive was disappointing.
Adding a diesel engine to the Territory range is the right thing to do, but should have happened years ago. With engines evolving so rapidly, putting 2004 technology in a 2011 family wagon is a case of too little too late. Territory TDCi asks owners to give up too much of Ford's top-notch driving experience for too little fuel saving and dubious financial benefit.

I BOUGHT ONE
Mark Ewings, 38, of Torquay in Victoria is a father of three and has owned two Territorys in the last seven years. "They're a brilliant wagon for a family, and the third row of seats comes in really handy. I'm interested to drive the new TDCi because fuel economy is, for my mind, the petrol model's only weakness."
We threw him the keys to the Territory TS TDCi, an all-wheel drive model like his Ghia, and straight away he noticed differences.
"It's not as snappy, is it? Feels like there's a hole when I want to move off. Like it's thinking too long. Feels OK once we're moving, but I don't like that initial pause."
Mark did like the Territory's newfound refinement. "It's definitely quieter than mine. I thought the diesel engine would be loud and crude like other diesels. It's not. It's really quiet."
And the new steering system? "To be honest, it doesn't feel any different. I like my Territory's steering, and this one feels just as good."
So, would he upgrade to a TDCi next time?
"I don't know. It's a lot to ask an extra $3,000 when the fuel economy would take years to make financial sense. And I don't think I like the way it drives enough to wait that long."

FORD TERRITORY TS TDCI AWD ***1/2
Price: from $48,240 (plus third row)
Warranty: 3yr / 100,000km
Resale: 58 per cent
Service intervals: 15,000km or 12 months
Economy: 8.8L/100km, 91RON, CO2 232g/km
Safety: Five star
Equipment: seven airbags, ABS, TC, ESC, ROM CRASH RATING five stars TECHNICAL ENGINE 140kW / 440Nm, 2.7-litre turbocharged diesel V6 Transmission: 6-speed automatic BODY four-door, five or seven seats DIMENSIONS L:4883 W:1898 H:1716 WB: 2843mm WEIGHT 2144kg Tyre size: 255/50R18
Spare tyre: speed-limited temporary spare
OTHERS TO CONSIDER

Toyota Kluger KX-S AWD
Price: $55,490
Engine:201kW/337Nm, 3.5-litre V6, petrol
Transmission: five-speed automatic
Body: four doors, seven seats
Thirst: 11.0L/100km, 91RON, CO2 259g/km
"This version of the Kluger is a delight to drive"
Holden Captiva LX 7-seat
Price: $43,490
Engine: 135kW/400Nm 2.2-litre 4-cyl turbodiesel
Transmission: six-speed automatic BODY four doors, seven seats
Thirst: 8.3L/100km, diesel, CO2 220g/km
"Has enough go for any situation"

Mazda CX-9 Classic
Price: $50,015
Engine: 3.7-litre V6 petrol, 204kW/366Nm
Transmission: 6-speed automatic
Body:four doors, seven seats
Thirst:11.3L/100km, 91RON, CO2 270g/km
"A long list of standard features"

[Road_Warrior]

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11327538

[csv8]

Ford really needs the diesel Tezza to shine..doesn't sound like it..I hope I am wrong...

[prydey]

i love how they dump on the economy after one drive whilst using the trip computer as fact.

[spvd02]

Well, if I'm correct, the highway figure for the RWD petrol is supposed to be 8.0L/100km. It would be pretty embarrassing if the Diesel cannot match that.

While I do like certain aspects of a TDCI Territory concept, I think the only reason it will sell well is because of popular opinion about the benefits of Turbo-diesel.

The reality won't matter, but seems to indicate that you may as well save your coin ($3250) and drive a petrol version, since it doesn't use as much more fuel as people think it does - and goes better to boot. In 4 speed auto guise it was thirsty, but that's hardly a surprise. Add some tech to the picture and the good old petrol I6 doesn't do too bad at all, in both economy and power.

According to the Carsguide article, one of the first things they noticed about the TDCI was its lack of responsiveness and grunt, when compared to the I6 . There you have the typical Diesel - A high figure quoted for torque, but you can't feel it. In contrast, with a 'torquey' petrol engine, the torque can be felt.

A high-torque diesel engine will still slow down up-hills when towing (unless it has astronomically high torque), whereas a high-torque petrol engine is able to maintain speed (mine manages most hills without kicking back from 4th gear, towing between 1000 and 1500kg)

[stevz]

This is rather disappointing after all the hype. I was going to recommend one to a relative but now I am having second thoughts. Spending $3k+ to save $540 a year hardly seems viable to me. The turbo lag also sounds like a bit of a drawback. I cannot help but think an LiLPG version would have made better sense.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by stevz

This is rather disappointing after all the hype. I was going to recommend one to a relative but now I am having second thoughts. Spending $3k+ to save $540 a year hardly seems viable to me. The turbo lag also sounds like a bit of a drawback. I cannot help but think an LiLPG version would have made better sense.

Still recommend it to them. It will be a great car. Chances are the TDV6 still has as much or more go than what they are driving. Sprinting off the line isn't what a TD does anyway. It's the rolling acceleration which is their forte.

I still find it very hard to believe the fuel figures they got from it too.Was he driving it set at a constant speed or rolling on or off the throttle.

Relying solely on the trip computer to measure fuel usage instead of refilling it is not the best method either. Ford Falcons and Terri's have in just about every test i've seen read higher consumption than actually used.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by stevz

This is rather disappointing after all the hype. I was going to recommend one to a relative but now I am having second thoughts. Spending $3k+ to save $540 a year hardly seems viable to me. The turbo lag also sounds like a bit of a drawback. I cannot help but think an LiLPG version would have made better sense.

Have you read the other review that seems very positive about the Terri?

Maybe get them to test drive the vehicle, we will see fuel economy figures on here soon enough.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Still recommend it to them. It will be a great car. Chances are the TDV6 still has as much or more go than what they are driving. Sprinting off the line isn't what a TD does anyway. It's the rolling acceleration which is their forte.

I still find it very hard to believe the fuel figures they got from it too.Was he driving it set at a constant speed or rolling on or off the throttle.

Relying solely on the trip computer to measure fuel usage instead of refilling it is not the best method either. Ford Falcons and Terri's have in just about every test i've seen read higher consumption than actually used.

Originally Posted by vztrt

Have you read the other review that seems very positive about the Terri?

Maybe get them to test drive the vehicle, we will see fuel economy figures on here soon enough.

Fair points.

I know I shouldn't write the car off after only one review, but you cannot deny that it's not looking as rosy as the hype would have us believe. Not-so-flash economy figures, combined with a higher purchase price, higher servicing costs, and with diesel priced higher than petrol a lot of the time, I am beginning to question whether there is any real benefit at all. The relatives in question currently have a falcon wagon on lpg which is used for towing and long trips, so running costs are a major factor to them. Having said that, I will wait till I test drive one and read more owner reports before passing judgement.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by stevz

Fair points.

I know I shouldn't write the car off after only one review, but you cannot deny that it's not looking as rosy as the hype would have us believe. Not-so-flash economy figures, combined with a higher purchase price, higher servicing costs, and with diesel priced higher than petrol a lot of the time, I am beginning to question whether there is any real benefit at all. The relatives in question currently have a falcon wagon on lpg which is used for towing and long trips, so running costs are a major factor to them. Having said that, I will wait till I test drive one and read more owner reports before passing judgement.

This has been posted in another thread. But this is the Go-Auto review. Massively positive! Go Auto are usually fair handed in their assessments too.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25786900097677

...

Even with all five seats occupied, air-con on and a decent load in the cargo area, the Territory is a lively performer. At a 110km/h cruise the engine is barely turning over, yet just a tickle of the throttle will have the Ford lunging forward. Brilliant.

...

claims fuel-efficiency increases to just 6.5L/100km on the highway - and the slightly higher figures we achieved leave us no reason to doubt that.

...

Lately the media has speculated about the future of the Falcon and Territory as Australian-designed, engineered and built vehicles once the current crop of cars come up for renewal around the middle of this decade.

Given the accomplishments of the Territory TDCi diesel alone, that would be a national tragedy.

In fact, we reckon a Ford sales renaissance is inevitable as a result, making anything possible for the Blue Oval in Australia going forward. Geoff Polites’ vision of what the Broadmeadows team can deliver is now a reality. Drive the new Territory for yourself to see what we mean.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by stevz

This is rather disappointing after all the hype. I was going to recommend one to a relative but now I am having second thoughts. Spending $3k+ to save $540 a year hardly seems viable to me. The turbo lag also sounds like a bit of a drawback. I cannot help but think an LiLPG version would have made better sense.

Well then I suggest you read the GoAuto article for a completely different perspective.

[mr smith]

A mate has access to the high milage test cars Ford use for R&D. TS All wheel drive, 7.6L average for a trip to Adelade. Car had 45000kms on the clock. I was able to go in the car, great ride and felt good on the road, sure when the foot was put down it didnt go like a petrol but it was no slug. I couldnt believe the cars guide test, a very different result from my experience.

[kevino]

Diesels take a while to bed in- the fuel consumption keeps improving after a slow start. The journos probably drove them like a petrol motor as well driving them on revs rather than driving tehm on torque.

[spvd02]

Although I was somewhat critical of the TDCI, it still sounds like a very nice package overall. I am sure economy will improve as the engine wears in, and for all we know it could be programmed to run rich for the first 2000km or so.

Originally Posted by mr smith

A mate has access to the high milage test cars Ford use for R&D. TS All wheel drive, 7.6L average for a trip to Adelade. Car had 45000kms on the clock. I was able to go in the car, great ride and felt good on the road, sure when the foot was put down it didnt go like a petrol but it was no slug. I couldnt believe the cars guide test, a very different result from my experience.

7.6L sounds a lot better for the AWD. If the petrol were available in AWD it would probably settle around 9.5-10L/100km in similar driving conditions.

From GoAuto it sounds like the TDCI is a great drive once on the move. I am sure there are plenty more positive reviews to come. Diesel is not my personal choice, but that doesn't make it a bad choice.

[WOTDAH]

Originally Posted by mr smith

A mate has access to the high milage test cars Ford use for R&D. TS All wheel drive, 7.6L average for a trip to Adelade. Car had 45000kms on the clock. I was able to go in the car, great ride and felt good on the road, sure when the foot was put down it didnt go like a petrol but it was no slug. I couldnt believe the cars guide test, a very different result from my experience.

I have also had the opportunity to drive several new Terry's and my experience is completely different to carsguide. Melb to Echuca and back the average fuel economy was 7.5L. The comment about the steering "To be honest, it doesn't feel any different. I like my Territory's steering, and this one feels just as good." I drive a SY2 Terry everyday and the first thing I noticed when I drove the new Terry was the steering and the improvement EPAS makes.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by stevz

This is rather disappointing after all the hype. I was going to recommend one to a relative but now I am having second thoughts. Spending $3k+ to save $540 a year hardly seems viable to me. The turbo lag also sounds like a bit of a drawback. I cannot help but think an LiLPG version would have made better sense.

You can also tell your relative about the new EcoLPI Falcon

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Brazen

You can also tell your relative about the new EcoLPI Falcon

If there was a wagon available, yes. Unfortunately a sedan simply doesn't suit their needs.

[JPFS1]

That carsguide review is nothing like what i've experienced in the AWD TS.

loaded up with plenty of gear, 4 adults and AC on all the time!!! , over ~1,000km's... we were getting ave 8.4L/100.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

That carsguide review is nothing like what i've experienced in the AWD TS.

loaded up with plenty of gear, 4 adults and AC on all the time!!! , over ~1,000km's... we were getting ave 8.4L/100.

What would the petrol model be doing under these conditions?

[1TUFFUTE]

id be interested in seeing how steep the hills were he was going up when he had to slow down to 75 to get under 8lper100.....me thinking that was a total crock built for slanderering the new terri

[chevypower]

Very disappointing for the diesel. I loved that engine when it came out in the Disco 3, it was one of the best diesels at the time. Shows you what 7 years will do though. Also, the alternative in that SUV was a 4.4 V8, which uses 17-20L/100km, so the diesel made a lot more sense. A modern evolution of the 2.7 TDV6, is the 4.4 TDV8 that Ford builds in Mexico for the 2011 Range Rover Vogue. It is fitted with a ZF 8 speed auto, and was tested at 6.5L/100km on the highway. Perhaps Ford Australia should have at least used the 3.0 TDV6 in the Territory, and should have fitted a taller differential ratio. I'd be surprised if they used a 3.08:1 or even taller, which would have been more than adequate for a Territory.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

That carsguide review is nothing like what i've experienced in the AWD TS.

loaded up with plenty of gear, 4 adults and AC on all the time!!! , over ~1,000km's... we were getting ave 8.4L/100.

That's pleasing to hear, although thats still only 892 klm to a tank when Ford claim's all Diesel Terri's to get 1000klm to a tank ?.
Was your fiqure's all hwy or in town aswell, that might explian it ?.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

That's pleasing to hear, although thats still only 892 klm to a tank when Ford claim's all Diesel Terri's to get 1000klm to a tank ?.
Was your fiqure's all hwy or in town aswell, that might explian it ?.

Town as well and heavy footed.

I really don't have an issue with ford's claimed figures. I think they are achievable from what i've seen. Of course there will be many variables and driving styles, some real world will come in better than claimed, and some worse, that's the reality.

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Town as well and heavy footed.

I really don't have an issue with ford's claimed figures. I think they are achievable from what i've seen. Of course there will be many variables and driving styles, some real world will come in better than claimed, and some worse, that's the reality.

Very true, it will all come down to ones driving habbit's and the route of their day to day travel's.
But that is very good economy and I am pleased to hear that includes in town, I look forward to hearing owner's reviews when people start to buy them.

[Mechan1k]

Now they need to do a towing test with it.

Also they were incorrect with the towing weights ... 1600kg unbraked is wrong ... 1600kg "braked with the tongue hitch" base towing packed is more like it.

[mik]

i would`nt take one economy test as gospel, we don`t know the circumstances of the test, driving into a head wind?hills has been mentioned, some newbys drive diesels like sports car engines, economical operation is useing the low rpm torque not revs and power.

[FalconXV]

Maybe it needs to be run-in?
In any case, there'll be aftermarket tuners to up the boost, maybe even to massive levels; ARE YOU LISTENING APS, C&V etc?

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Maybe it needs to be run-in?
In any case, there'll be aftermarket tuners to up the boost, maybe even to massive levels; ARE YOU LISTENING APS, C&V etc?

Good point, we havn't heard the aftermarket potential of the Diesel as yet, a new tune etc could see more power and better economy to boot.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Good point, we havn't heard the aftermarket potential of the Diesel as yet, a new tune etc could see more power and better economy to boot.

I've posted some information on tuned TDV6 2.7L in previous threads.

http://www.kraftwerk.com.au/car_selector_2.php?id=624
140kW/440Nm > 169kW/510Nm

http://www.chipexpress.com/products/1072/
140kW/440Nm > 170kW/520Nm

http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/....7-tdv6-190-ps
140kW/440Nm > 171kW/530Nm

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

Melbourne to Sydney on a single tank, my 4.0L BA did FRANKSTON to Sydney on a single tank 66L it used...