Knocking Noise In The Motor

[WOGBOY69]

Hi all

as you all know i have a v6 essex capri mk1 gt all fully rebuilt from top to bottom ..
well today i just did some final adjustments on the brakes cause i had a fault in stoping .and tumps up great job.....

as i was taking it for a spin around the block checking for how it stop and pulling up strait . i gave a bit of the mark ..and spun the wheels preaty dam good if you ask me smoke up well...
about 30 seconds latter a knocking noise started in the motor ,,,not inpressed ..got home noise was only there only if i started to rev it ..on idel there is no noise .
i took the tapet covers of to see if i could see anything loose on top ..took the leads of and wind the car over all pins moving up and down ..so there all good
now iam thinking would the camshaft timming gears get floged out that quike there new as well ..they are noisy when i start up but once oil gets up there there good ...has anyone got any ideas wht it mite be ..
iam stressing out big time now....

please let me know if you think you may help..

cheers

[Pazuzu]

No experience with Capri's myself, but are you running points ignition? My Escort would knock badly at high revs or under load (like climbing a steep hill), even after a service (done by the guys who re-built my motor.) Conversion to electronic got rid of that problem.
If you're running electronic already, I could only guess the timing's out a touch. Besides that, I got nothin'... Hope it works out for you.

[WOGBOY69]

hi all

well just to keep all in the loop i do have electronic egintion on the car ..there are no points ....
iam going to take the front cover of .. i have a gut felling something came loose inside ..hmmm not good
but ill have a look and see ..thats all i can do for now ......
but if anyone has any thoughts ..please spreed the good news ......

cheers

[caprispecial]

If I have to guess then I say its a big end bearing.
Really tho it could be anything and impossible to tell witout hearing it.
Noises from the camshaft and valve train go at half speed to noises from the pistons and crank. That should give a clue. Also get a piece of hose and stick one end to your ear and move the other end around listening for the noise, get someone to rev it to where the noise is heard.
With the engine running pull one plug lead off at a time, if the noise stops at a certain spot then the problem will be with that piston, conrod and big end bearing.
Do a compression test, maybe there is a broken ring or ring land.
I hope it all turns out ok.

[allanv6gt]

Possible cause...amongst others mentioned above.
Others may be simpler to remedy.

I bought a V6 Capri with a 'reconditioned' motor many years ago.
Turned out the occasional knock (at revs) was the crankshaft gear slipping on the crankshaft, thereby massively altering the camshaft timing wrt valve movement, and leading to valves hitting pistons ('cos this is an interference motor).
Changed the crankshaft gear for one where the keyway was correct width (not double width - not joking !!!) and funnily enough the noise just went away.
Methinks the 'reco' was a quick lap-the-valves-and-new-head-gaskets job, all for $1500 (in 1990). I thought these things took forever to wear like that.

With the timing cover removed, check the timing marks on crankshaft gear and camshaft gears line up correctly - note no balance shaft in these things unlike the V4 so make sure you have identified the right timing mark on the camshaft gear (has 2).
And while you're at it check the size of the crankshaft gear keyway. A make-up mirror would be helpful. Don't need to pull timing gears off....just that bottom fanbelt pulley to get the timing cover off (can be very tight!!).

And... I've had a fibre timing gear get seriously munched after losing a tooth on the crankshaft gear following an overtaking move on the road. Stopped me proceeding, but you might have skipped a single tooth on the camshaft timing gear leading to knocking noises as I've described above.

Ah, the voice of experience....aaaarrrgh.
Anyone want more war stories ???

[muzzy]

Put a oil presuure gauge on the engine and check, a knock, can be a big end, Back in my capri days a friend with a v6 did excatly what you did, then his started to knock turned out to be, excess clearance from a poorly sized conrod. To isolate to a cylinder remove the spark plug lead( take load away) from each clyinder until noise disappears. A crank or timing gear failure will not normally produce a knock rather a constant noise. ( due to speed/rpm) where as a bearing knock will be 1/6th of ever second crank rev therefore easier to hear., hope this helps.

[WOGBOY69]

thanks guys
ill check some of these things tomarrow i have been away this weekend ..so back on iit on monday i hope i dont have to strip to much ....

cheers

[WOGBOY69]

hi

allenv6gt can you pm me please with your details ..if ok i would love to speak to you and get some advise over the phone.....

cheers mate

gerry

[WOGBOY69]

hi there

yep sure its caming out...not happy jan........ ,,,,preaty peeded of now iam starting to strip the motor.......

[JG65TE]

if it did it droppin a skid it was gunna do it anyway mate. most common cause is big ends but lets not wish that on ya. had an old cortina start to knock at revs, held it at revs til the main let go. found the problem easy then. i dare say a v6 isnt the easiest to get good parts for either

[WOGBOY69]

hi all

well i took the motor out tonight ...what a chalange ...but its out ...
well its on the stand and i took the sump of and i noticed there is like shavings in the sump not iron its looks like the same stuff the pistons are made of ..
so in that engine there are not to many things made from that mateial .now the question is
could it still be the end bearing or the rings. i realy dont know untill i strip the motor now......
iam realy peeded of now big time

cheers

[JG65TE]

need to see em mate, pull your caps off and check ya bearings while your there, grab a torch and check the little end isnt flogin around too. a valve isnt tappin the top of a slug is it ? . no real easy way of the metal reaching the sump tho

[WOGBOY69]

HI ALL

SORRY MATE WHATS A SLUG .?????????? I MITE BE SLOW ON THIS ONE .....
ILL HOPE TO GOD STRIP IT TODAY AND GO FROM THERE I SUPPOSE ....
ITS DONE NOW ......

[Jimmyd]

Originally Posted by WOGBOY69

SORRY MATE WHATS A SLUG .??????????

Piston

[burnz]

if you have a manuel gearbox, depress the clutch and see of it stops knocking.

it could well be layshaft..

[WOGBOY69]

hi all


well all found now...it was big end bearing only one but now ill have to change them all ...also wash the motor inside down cause there is shavings everywere ..
and also a broken ring..dunno why....but why all this ....
so monday ill take the lot to the person how did all the machining side of things and see if he can help me out,,,

cheers

[muzzy]

Originally Posted by WOGBOY69

hi all


well all found now...it was big end bearing only one but now ill have to change them all ...also wash the motor inside down cause there is shavings everywere ..
and also a broken ring..dunno why....but why all this ....
so monday ill take the lot to the person how did all the machining side of things and see if he can help me out,,,

cheers

This is what I said it would be, as an engine ages the conrods stretch all the rods will need to be closed and honed, the broken ring is caused from 1 of the 4 overload, overheat, wrong gap, faulty instal, I would also suggest the crank will need to be looked at for ovality.
Muz

[WOGBOY69]

THE CRANK IS STILL good but engine builder will tell me on monday ...
but all still good ..only lasted 130klm ..very poor.....

[WOGBOY69]

Hi all

this is the update now and thats it both top end bearings shoot and big end bearings shoot...
cause of it ....some bananna put the bearings the wroung way around....how stuiped ..dont you when you put some thing like that toghter dot the i and cross the t....friend of the family to.....what do i do hold my tounge .cause iam going spastic about it all ... all the cost now ......
but anyway on a hopefully good note ..i should get it back by next friday ..and built right

[JG65TE]

thats a bummer mate, file fit rings ? .did it score the crank at all ? how long did it live for before it spun a bearing ?. is the crank ground ? . ahhhh, engine builder will fix it

[caprispecial]

We all feel your pain.
If the big end bearing has spun then the oil supply to the piston is chopped off which can result in the piston and rings and bore being destroyed. In the case of the bore being badly scored and needing a sleeve, it may be better to get another engine and start again.

[Engine Guy]

Hmmm

As I recall the top end bearings in the Essex motor are actually the pistons... the gudgeon pin is actually a press fit in the con rod.

I reckon the crank will have to be ground again.. usually the big ends going will damage the relativley soft crank journal.

Mind you...it's been many years since I did a lot of work on old ford motors when I lived in the UK..

P.S I'd be asking for a new oil pump too, the important parts of the pump will be scored and worn.

Best of luck.
Engine Guy

[WOGBOY69]

does anone know i can main bearings in queensland for these v6 essex motor...i need it a,s,a,p ..

[WOGBOY69]

hi all

just giving you all an update ..still waiting for the bearings caming from nz ..the postal in australia is realy up to speed ....not...lol...there that slow i reckon i could of made bearing myself .in this time .
so still waiting for bearing to arive so my babe is still of the streets...fingures crossed this week.....

cheers

[WOGBOY69]

hi all

well just an update to you all ..motor being picked up and put togther right this time ..
Its in the car ..

IT stqrts up with good noise and sounds great..

just need to do final adjustments ...but al in all looking very sweet....

cheers all