VIC: 1 Ambulance smashed every week by bad motorists

AWD Chaser · 12-02-2012, 08:22 PM

http://www.news.com.au/national/ambu...-1226268995579

Quote:

SELFISH motorists are putting the lives of the seriously ill at risk by crashing into, holding up and even menacing ambulances trying to get the sick and injured to hospital.
Documents obtained under Freedom of Information laws reveal dangerous drivers in Victoria are causing an average of a crash a week with ambulances, with the emergency vehicles being smashed by other motorists 52 times between October 2010 and October 2011.
Over the year paramedics were injured in 23 crashes, with some suffering "life-threatening/severe" injuries, including one left with neck damage after his ambulance was struck while he was in the back treating a critically ill patient.
One of the worst cases included a road rager abusing a paramedic parked in a hospital bay for blocking his way.
The man threatened to bash the paramedic and chased him into his car, before damaging the ambulance several times and driving off - leaving the officer with psychological distress.
The revelations have prompted Roads Minister Terry Mulder to look at increasing fines for irresponsible motorists.
Ambulance Employees Australia state secretary Steve McGhie said the problem was worse than ever, with increased traffic and ambulances travelling greater distances to respond to jobs outside their patch.
"There is a lot of blatant disregard from motorists towards emergency vehicles, but also a lot of these modern cars have got stereo systems designed more for homes so that they just don't hear the sirens," Mr McGhie said.
"A lot of drivers panic and stop in front to obstruct an emergency vehicle. It comes down to a lack of education."
Mr McGhie said that when people received their licence their responsibility to emergency vehicles must be reinforced and they should be taught how to safely get out of their way.
"There's this blatant disregard because I think it's just brushed over," he said.
One of the biggest spikes in crashes involved Single Response Units driven solely by MICA paramedics - the very vehicles designed to cut through busy city traffic to provide a quick response before a stretcher ambulance arrives - with five hit in the past 16 months.
Ambulance Victoria is now fitting these cars with video cameras to help determine why they are over-represented in crashes.
Last year three Victorian motorists were fined $214 and lost three demerit points for failing to give way or keep clear of emergency vehicles.
Four drivers were penalised in 2010.
Mr Mulder urged motorists to take more care.
"While we will always consider any moves to improve road safety, I think the vast majority of Victorians do their best to get out of the way of ambulances on the road," he said.
"If you can't get out of the way safely, the best thing to do is to stop and let the ambulance overtake you."

BHDOGS · 12-02-2012, 08:27 PM

it might be time to employ a security guard to travel with all ambulances just for there own safety these days.

Jim Goose · 12-02-2012, 08:41 PM

I doubt a sercurity guard will help with traffic issues.... plus he will take up valueable room inside.

Sadly a lot of motorists are rude and selfish when it comes to driving and hog the road, or are listening to loud music, talking on phone, arguing with their partner... etc etc etc

DoreSlamR · 12-02-2012, 08:50 PM

This news doesn't surprise me one bit.

And to add salt to the wound there's an article about how driving examiners have been told to lift their pass rates and if they don't they'll be sacked...

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226268521798

So we're getting more and more bad drivers on the road that emergency services have to dodge.

joolz · 13-02-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

driving examiners have been told to lift their pass rates and if they don't they'll be sacked...

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226268521798

So we're getting more and more bad drivers on the road that emergency services have to dodge.

Not surprising either. More bad drivers on the road = more revenue for the Gov Coffers.

2011G6E · 13-02-2012, 09:41 AM

http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/...n-way-to-jobs/

Just as long as they don't speed on thier way to a call out...that would be really dangerous..

No no, it's OK...I want the emegency vehicle I called to my "non urgent" case to just take a leisurely sunday drive to come get me...it's nothing important...just a spot of indigestion, i'll be right in no time, don't even know why I called...no need to rush...

If ever there was proof it's all about revenue raising, this is it. When I was in the ambulance, we'd drive there as fast as possible, safely, but usually over the speed limit, for just about anything. Triple-O calls were flat out balls-to-the-wall driving, but even to someone who rang and said "I've fallen down and think I might have broken something", you'd rush because you never know if they're downplaying what's wrong with them or if it could suddenly turn nasty, like a kid who had a heavy piece of farm equipment fall on him and hit him in the belly...the parents said he just had a bit of a sore stomach and bruising, but was a bit pale...probably shock...and his stomach was getting tight. We drove out to the farm at 130kph on the highway just outside Bundaberg (it was "non urgent" at that stage so I suppose we should have been booked...

), but by the time we got there, the kid had passed out and his stomach was distended and tight, and he was very pale...obviously internal bleeding. We drove back slightly quicker than we went out...actually that was the first time I'd seen 220kph on the clock of any vehicle as I looked over the drivers shoulder from the back of the high speed crash car that Bundy had at the time (a HZ Premier with a worked 308 and modded suspension...let's see your diesel Mercedes vans do that)...

new2ford · 13-02-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/...n-way-to-jobs/

Just as long as they don't speed on thier way to a call out...that would be really dangerous..

We've truly reached the pits of nannying and political correctness when emergency vehicles are placed under such constraints.

prydey · 13-02-2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/...n-way-to-jobs/

Quote:

Paramedics are not fined for speeding when they are using lights and sirens for the most urgent - code 1 - jobs, but they are fined when on less serious - code 2 - cases such as transporting people to hospital and overdoses.

any time they have their blues and twos on, they should be exempt. if it is a non urgent situation (where time is not critical) then i guess it doesn't really matter. they can just drive normally. i'm guessing this is the case. the article made it sound a bit different.

2011G6E · 13-02-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

any time they have their blues and twos on, they should be exempt. if it is a non urgent situation (where time is not critical) then i guess it doesn't really matter. they can just drive normally. i'm guessing this is the case. the article made it sound a bit different.

That's the problem though...people ring up and say they need an ambulance, but especially older people downplay how bad things are. I know it's going back a long way (nearly 30 years...good lord...) but a couple really stick in my mind. One was that little 5 year old kid I mentioned (the parents just thought he had "hurt himself" but he ended up having lost nearly half his blood volume through internal bleeding into the abdomen) and another was an old lady who rang to say she'd "had a bit of a tumble and hurt her leg", but "It's nothing serious really, but it hurts to move it". When we turned up she was sitting on a chair beside the phone with a shirt held against her ankle, and a bloody great pool of blood under the chair. She'd popped her Tibia right through her shin, an open fracture. Needless to say that while we drove to her house a a normal traffic pace, we drove from there to the hospital at a slightly more spirited pace...
If she had said "I've broken my ankle and the bone is sticking out and I'm bleeding heavily" on the phone, we'd have driven there our pants were on fire...but I don't even think we used the sirens or lights on the way to her house.

Basically, any time a fire engine or ambulance is going to a call out, they should be able to drive as fast as they safely can for the conditions, with no stupid bloody restrictions...if it turns out to be trivial, so what? They got there fast just in case.

TMC · 13-02-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

This news doesn't surprise me one bit.

And to add salt to the wound there's an article about how driving examiners have been told to lift their pass rates and if they don't they'll be sacked...

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226268521798

So we're getting more and more bad drivers on the road that emergency services have to dodge.

So that explains a lot then. Seen the state of our Taxi drivers now. Absolutely woeful. No regard for the road rules or other drivers or what a median line is. They just drive all over the place, and they're meant to be professional!!!! I had to blare my horn at one the other night for just wandering right over hard into my lane.

Yellow_Festiva · 12-02-2012, 09:05 PM

Seen it a few times where drivers get caught in front of an ambulance and panic or don't have the brainpower to think fast to create an opening.

I can still remember waiting in the middle row of a 3 lane road at the lights. I merged from the right lane to let an ambulance through, all but 1 car did, and he stopped at the red light blocking the ambulance. He didn't budge, rather pointed up to the lights indicating to all that were beeping him to bloody move that it was a red and he was staying put till he was good and ready to move.

Hows this for an idea.... put a google street view style camera above each mobile unit that records in enough detail to get driver and number plate details. Anyone who plays silly buggers is dealt with swiftly and harshly. Leading up to this, have a 1 month advertising blitz over all forms of media advertising the procedures when dealing with any emergency services vehicles, as well as the consequences if you go out of your way to stuff them around....

That way, they can't say they didn't know!

DoreSlamR · 12-02-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I can still remember waiting in the middle row of a 3 lane road at the lights. I merged from the right lane to let an ambulance through, all but 1 car did, and he stopped at the red light blocking the ambulance. He didn't budge, rather pointed up to the lights indicating to all that were beeping him to bloody move that it was a red and he was staying put till he was good and ready to move.

I was at a set of lights that were all red in the right turning lane when an ambulance come racing up behind me wanting to turn right, lights and siren blaring.

I took a moment to assess the situation and pulled forward and to the left in front of the car next to me who was going straight (he had a red too) and let the ambulance through...

I was quite pleased at how I handled the situation and always wondered what a typical (bad) driver would have done.

prydey · 12-02-2012, 09:25 PM

people who are aggressive toward ambo's are probably the same ones who whinge when they are late if they have called them. often its all about them.

also, when it comes to red lights, i believe it is still illegal to run the red light. i think you can move forward or over a bit but if you cause an accident whilst trying to get out the way, the ambulance is obliged to stop and make sure everyone is ok, before continuing their journey, thus costing them even more time. most times, the ambo will find a way through.

Yellow_Festiva · 12-02-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

I was at a set of lights that were all red in the right turning lane when an ambulance come racing up behind me wanting to turn right, lights and siren blaring.

I took a moment to assess the situation and pulled forward and to the left in front of the car next to me who was going straight (he had a red too) and let the ambulance through...

I was quite pleased at how I handled the situation and always wondered what a typical (bad) driver would have done.

I had typed that I was in the same situation and did exactly just as you described when writing my original post but removed it. Drove forward over the lines in front of the next car, let the ambo pass then reversed back into position.

Not hard to use common sense on the roads. Problem is, Sydney is LOADED with all sorts of cameras now. If you get snapped, how much trouble and time will you need to try and explain yourself out of a fine?

It has happened... and there was a time where points were not returned even when a judge overturned the fine because "they were 2 different departments"... but that has now been fixed.

Sometimes.... I don't blame people getting paranoid behind the wheel, especially in Sydney.

new2ford · 12-02-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Hows this for an idea.... put a google street view style camera above each mobile unit that records in enough detail to get driver and number plate details. Anyone who plays silly buggers is dealt with swiftly and harshly.

Nothing new. Trams have cameras that record vehicles failing to stop/give way and the details are passed onto police.

JC · 13-02-2012, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Seen it a few times where drivers get caught in front of an ambulance and panic or don't have the brainpower to think fast to create an opening.

I can still remember waiting in the middle row of a 3 lane road at the lights. I merged from the right lane to let an ambulance through, all but 1 car did, and he stopped at the red light blocking the ambulance. He didn't budge, rather pointed up to the lights indicating to all that were beeping him to bloody move that it was a red and he was staying put till he was good and ready to move.

Hows this for an idea.... put a google street view style camera above each mobile unit that records in enough detail to get driver and number plate details. Anyone who plays silly buggers is dealt with swiftly and harshly. Leading up to this, have a 1 month advertising blitz over all forms of media advertising the procedures when dealing with any emergency services vehicles, as well as the consequences if you go out of your way to stuff them around....

That way, they can't say they didn't know!

And if you collide with any emergency vehicle - automatic loss of license for 6 months if you are at fault. Automatic loss for 1 month if you intentionally obstruct an emergency vehicle. And lifetime driving ban if you injure an emergency vehicle occupant. Of course none of this applies if the ambulance is at fault, but considering they will have lights and sound on in an emergency, I can't see how it would be their fault.

mik · 12-02-2012, 09:17 PM

a lot of it is an attitude thing, young people don`t get disciplined properly growing up, they end up on the road with a chip on their shoulder, as for passing people with poor driving skills, they are not doing them any favours or us for that matter.

z80 · 13-02-2012, 12:29 AM

It's Victoria.

Learner drivers are told to drive in the right hand lane.

Motorists on the Geelong Rd only move left after you've applied your brakes flashed them and torn your hair out...

After they move over for you they move right back in the RH lane.

Have seen this many times with emergency vehicles, hell have even seen them chase the ambulance to get a clear line through the traffic.

All the problems are caused by people don't keep left and the police don't enforce laws with small demerit points/

2011G6E · 13-02-2012, 12:44 AM

Been going on for years...in the early eighties I was an auxiliary fireman and after that apart time ambulance bearer (as they were called back then instead of paramedics or whatever...).
You'd sit behind people with a massive red fire engine, lights flashing all over it, and sirens blaring, and they'd just keep cruising along oblivious to you sitting right up thier clacker.

Of course, there were a few ambulance officers and firemen that had to be sat on, because some of them thought that flashing lights meant you could blow through intersections as fast as you liked and traffic would magically stop for you. We were trained to treat each intersection as a give way...yes, ignore the red lights or stop sign...but slow down a bit and be careful, because visibility for cars coming from the side street might not allow them to see you until it's too late.

mik · 13-02-2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

It's Victoria.

Learner drivers are told to drive in the right hand lane.

Motorists on the Geelong Rd only move left after you've applied your brakes flashed them and torn your hair out...

After they move over for you they move right back in the RH lane.

Have seen this many times with emergency vehicles, hell have even seen them chase the ambulance to get a clear line through the traffic.

All the problems are caused by people don't keep left and the police don't enforce laws with small demerit points/

ahh yes but we don`t need police.......... we got camera`s.

SB076 · 13-02-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

It's Victoria.

Learner drivers are told to drive in the right hand lane.

Motorists on the Geelong Rd only move left after you've applied your brakes flashed them and torn your hair out...

After they move over for you they move right back in the RH lane.

Have seen this many times with emergency vehicles, hell have even seen them chase the ambulance to get a clear line through the traffic.

All the problems are caused by people don't keep left and the police don't enforce laws with small demerit points/

Agreed I have seen a Ambulance with lights and sirens unable to budge someone from the right hand lane (Ambulance had topass them on the left) This was a few months ago on the SE just after Stud Rd

My poor XF · 13-02-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z80

It's Victoria.

Learner drivers are told to drive in the right hand lane.

Motorists on the Geelong Rd only move left after you've applied your brakes flashed them and torn your hair out...

After they move over for you they move right back in the RH lane.

/

Slightly OT but I witnessed this exact thing here in Adelaide. Driving along the northern expressway (dual carriage 110 speed limit) a green P plater with Vic plates was sitting in the right hand lane driving 10 km's under the limit and holding up traffic as he was pacing another car in the left lan (also Vic plates)

The guy behind him was getting very frustrated to the point where he flashed his lights etc. eventually the p plater moved to the left let him pass then headed straight back to the right hand lane. WTF!

Till_Lind · 13-02-2012, 01:08 AM

And here is good reason why I try to avoid even reading about current news in Australia, enough to make you sick.

Brazen · 13-02-2012, 06:46 AM

I think in other places in the world they have installed cameras and will try to ticket people but it's hard to police. In Asia a lot of times they don't bother with the siren because no one gets out of the way. New York is terrible though pedestrians don't even give way and I always saw cabs stop to drop off and pick up fares in front of emergency vehicles with sirens blaring.

Also I thought it was illegal to enter a red light even if an ambulance was behind you. Although I would do it anyway.

Franco Cozzo · 13-02-2012, 06:49 AM

We've got a smashed ambulance in our workshop at the moment, its fairly common.

BHDOGS · 13-02-2012, 02:24 PM

Security might not help while driving to the location but it sure beats get beaten by a road rager while u hide inside or having the ambulance broken into and everything else that goes along with it these days i wouldnt be an ambulance officer for quids to many **** heads these day.

max_torq · 13-02-2012, 03:22 PM

don't want to be disrespectful here.. but if there are 52 incidents a year with an actual smash, and only 3 people fined a year... could the ambulance drivers be being a bit too aggressive?

BeansNoMore · 13-02-2012, 03:38 PM

Following on from my initial post, is it a lawful excuse after running a red light and get fined by a speed camera with the associated loss of points and costs, to claim that you were morally correct in assisting an emergency vehicle by getting out of the way. What does the law say, does it support you? I bet it doesn't. Do drivers of emergency vehicles including the police expect you to break the law to get out of their way. I conclude that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It takes a strong will to sit at a red light with an ambulance or police car with its lights and sirens blazing right behind you or to decide to break the law and run the red light. I've never known what to do and suspect that 99% haven't a clue either.

prydey · 13-02-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeansNoMore

Following on from my initial post, is it a lawful excuse after running a red light and get fined by a speed camera with the associated loss of points and costs, to claim that you were morally correct in assisting an emergency vehicle by getting out of the way. What does the law say, does it support you? I bet it doesn't. Do drivers of emergency vehicles including the police expect you to break the law to get out of thier way. I recon that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

it takes a strong will to sit at a red light with an ambulance or police car with its lights and sirens blazing right behind you or to decide to break the law and run the red light. I've never known what to do and suspect that 99% havent a clue either.

yes, it is still illegal to run the red. you can move forward a touch and maybe to the side if you can. don't run the red! if you cause an accident, the ambo has to stay and check everyone's alright, so the emergency they were attending is then delayed further.

Brazen · 13-02-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeansNoMore

Following on from my initial post, is it a lawful excuse after running a red light and get fined by a speed camera with the associated loss of points and costs, to claim that you were morally correct in assisting an emergency vehicle by getting out of the way. What does the law say, does it support you? I bet it doesn't. Do drivers of emergency vehicles including the police expect you to break the law to get out of thier way. I recon that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

it takes a strong will to sit at a red light with an ambulance or police car with its lights and sirens blazing right behind you or to decide to break the law and run the red light. I've never known what to do and suspect that 99% havent a clue either.

I would assume I would react to what the emergency vehicle driver is doing.

If they pull up behind me and turn off the siren, but leave the lights flashing I assume they are comfortable waiting till the light turns green. But if they come up behind me at a red light and leave the siren wailing and beep there horns I would most certainly move into the intersection on a red light to let them pass.

I can understand people being confused as to what to do, however I would want motorists giving way even if it meant them getting in trouble if it was my kid dying while waiting for an ambulance. Im sure a letter to the authority would get you out of a ticket, I even suspect they wont send you a fine if in the camera photos they can see an ambulance shortly after going through.