Home servicing, is it as good as a workshop service?

[mik]

i don`t open many threads but i thought this was a worthy topic.
One thing that always gets me when people say "i did a service myself", or "i had the car serviced the other day", i have to question in a lot of cases if the home service is as good as a workshop service in many cases.

for a start usually a workshop service is done on hoist or a pit with lights, while up high it`s a very nice way to check for anything out of the ordinary, oil levels/visible oil/water leaks/exhaust problems/ disc rotors/pads/suspension a good visual inspection, up top with a lead light another visual inspection with a lead light/checking all fluids/drive belt/battery terminals for tightness/corrosion, hoses/leaks again,
anything out of the ordinary, the equipment is there you can do it all very easily and quickly.
i have left out computer flashes/chassis lube(grease nipples remember those )
It`s not just a quick jack up and at the front and do the engine oil/filter change and all done, i know some people ramp them or jack them up all round on stands and spend considerable time doing the job as a workshop would, ................but how many just do the oil change/filter and call that a service? and how many abandon the book/manual service because ".......it`s to expensive" (hey i`m gonna sell it in a few years anyway).

So i ask, do you believe the home service generally as good as a competent workshop service? (no dealer bashing please... i said competent)
how many cars run into problems later on because the owners poorly service them? it would be interesting to get a bit of professional feed back on this one.................discuss.

[Mr Hardware]

I change the oil, oil filter, air filter, plugs, leads, fuel filter, coolant etc myself in my falcon. The time it takes me to do an oil change is shorter than what it takes most people just to drive to and from a mechanic!

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by mik

i don`t open many threads but i thought this was a worthy topic.
One thing that always gets me when people say "i did a service myself", or "i had the car serviced the other day", i have to question in a lot of cases if the home service is as good as a workshop service in many cases.

for a start usually a workshop service is done on hoist or a pit with lights, while up high it`s a very nice way to check for anything out of the ordinary, oil levels/visible oil/water leaks/exhaust problems/ disc rotors/pads/suspension a good visual inspection, up top with a lead light another visual inspection with a lead light/checking all fluids/drive belt/battery terminals for tightness/corrosion, hoses/leaks again,
anything out of the ordinary, the equipment is there you can do it all very easily and quickly.
i have left out computer flashes/chassis lube(grease nipples remember those )
It`s not just a quick jack up and at the front and do the engine oil/filter change and all done, i know some people ramp them or jack them up all round on stands and spend considerable time doing the job as a workshop would, ................but how many just do the oil change/filter and call that a service? and how many abandon the book/manual service because ".......it`s to expensive" (hey i`m gonna sell it in a few years anyway).

So i ask, do you believe the home service generally as good as a competent workshop service? (no dealer bashing please... i said competent)
how many cars run into problems later on because the owners poorly service them? it would be interesting to get a bit of professional feed back on this one.................discuss.

I believe each man to their trade...I'd always get a lawyer to defend me in court rather than put up my own defence - always get a sparky to install lights at home and always gets plumber to fix a blocked stormwater drain.
Reason?...because I know the job will be done properly, more quickly and "usually" in a professional manner. Same goes for my cars...they are serviced by a reputable workshop.

Similarly, I would never buy a car that hasn't been serviced by a reputable garage, regardless of how competent the previous owner says he is.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Similarly, I would never buy a car that hasn't been serviced by a reputable garage, regardless of how competent the previous owner says he is.

Then you'd be missing out on some real gems. People who don't know how to service their own cars cannot be called car enthusiasts.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Then you'd be missing out on some real gems. People who don't know how to service their own cars cannot be called car enthusiasts.

Depends what's entailed in the service - a basic oil and filter change no problem. I wouldn't go to the trouble of replacing clutches IRS bushes ot timing tensioners- don't have the right tools, the time or the inclination.

Back in my younger years no problem removing and stripping down engines (with assistance from mechanic mates), replacing exhausts aand clutches but today would rather pay someone to do it....what the experts can do in a day would take me a whole weekend and time is valuable....would rather be out driving the beast in my spare time than working on it....I have the same view with gardening and home renovations

[BHDOGS]

I do most of the stuff myself and if i find something i dont know how to do i read up on it look at threads and perform it hard at first and if you mess it up just pay for a professional to do it anyway but why not learn save yourself some cash in the past 2 months i would of saved up to two thousand dollars by doing things myself and learning on the way hardest one being a ba dash removal and him module change turned out to be easy as!

[aussiblue]

I believe each man to their trade...I'd always get a lawyer to defend me in court rather than put up my own defence - always get a sparky to install lights at home and always gets plumber to fix a blocked stormwater drain.
Reason?...because I know the job will be done properly, more quickly and "usually" in a professional manner.

If only. I try to always do my own car servicing and repairs and the only time in the last 40 odd years that I had to pay someone they well and truly stuffed it up.

Some 15 years ago I needed the transmission repaired in the NB Fairlane as the clutch pack drum had cracked. As I was seriously ill at the time, and unable to even do the simplest of repairs I went to a transmission placed recommended by the RAC. Yes they did a good job repairing the transmission (albeit at $3,500 rather than the $400 it would have cost me to do it myself and got assembled the washers on the linkage back to front). However, while they had the engine lifted to remove the trans the broke the oil filler cap and left the pieces in the engine. I should have suspected something as they kept stalling (6 weeks) about returning my car and the only returned it after I sighted it on the road driven by the owner of the workshop. The were obviously test driving the car to see if anything would go wrong with a plastic cap in the sump. Two weeks after getting the car back the oil pump seized breaking the distributor shaft - the broken bits of oil filler cap had blocked the pickup screen, opened the bypass oil pump valve and bit of timing chain that had been broken off by the cap then entered the pump- full engine rebuild to get rid of all broken bits. Because I was so sick I just initially went out an bought another car and it wasn't until six month later when I felt well enough to investigate I found the cause. I then also noticed that the oil cap had been replaced with an aftermarket one instead of the Ford one that was there when I gave them the car. As I had done all the previous servicing and repairs and had already once replaced the cap with a new Ford one I knew the trans place had to be the culprit.

I do regret not going back and confronting them in person but the illness I had was suspected pheochromocytoma (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheochromocytoma) that gives you high adrenalin levels and can thus make you prone to violent outbursts - I just wasn't sure I could keep my cool when the initial phone call enquiries got evasive results. My specialist had also cautioned me to avoid such situations although I never did have any violent outbursts and the symptoms faded away over the subsequent 10 years without any pheochromocytoma causing tumour being found.

I have also seen a brake place put the three cups instead of two in a brake wheel cylinder when the repaired the brakes for my father's (now my) EH Holden.

I guess having been bought up in a very isolated part of rural WA I also learnt very quickly it was fix it yourself or go without - there was no local mechanics, electricians etc.

Interestinglu in the hobby electronics media some years ago there was a lot of discussion about DYI, versus professional electrical wiring in the wake of proposals by some union pushed labour governments to prevent the sale of power points and lights switched to homeowners to ensure no homeowners were able to do even minor electrical work. Out of this debate there was a lot of attention given to statistics and other research that showed that in countries and north American states that allowed homeowners to do their own wiring there were many more fatalities caused by the professional electrician than the DYI and more pros electrocuted themselves than DYI homeowners. Where the research has been done it essentially indicated the pros get caught by complacency and repetitive routine while DYI were ultra cautious and were more inclined to over engineer. For example the pro electricians thought they had removed the fuses but that was in the last house they had worked on , the pros thought they have earthed the systems but no that was another house etc. The amateurs in comparison were scared by the prospects of electrocution and were accordingly generally much more careful. This issue is not a debate for this forum (I don't do my own mains work but I support the idea of having a restricted licence and some sort of TAFE training for DYIs as is done in some places) However, I suspect the auto service and repair would have analogous situations. - i.e. pros forgetting to refill the sump, replace the oil filter, tighten the wheel nuts etc because of the repetitive nature of the work and similarity of cars they are working on - and we have all read examples of this happening.

So in summary getting a tradesman to do the work is not always a guarantee it will be done right.

PS and as university graduate professional accountant and economist, I also recognise that there are also self taught accountants that are very good at what they do (for example I have a good friend who is an excellent bookkeeper who has no formal training) and everyone seems to feel free to have a view about the economy and how it can be improved and nobody professional or otherwise seems to have the perfect solution .

[The Yeti]

there was a simular thread here some time ago (That long ago it would take to long to search) any how I got in a heated debate with a few people, becasue I personaly beleive its better to send them to the shop if your not a mechanic.

I do all mine at home but then I have all the tools as I purchesd them out of my dads busienss when he passed away and I am a licenced mechnaic by trade

I dont have a pit or hoist as while these things make it easyer its not essential.

I have no problem with guys having a go, but they need to know their limits, and PM services and speicilist jobs to the guys that are trained in what they do after all you wouldnt ask the paper boy to give you a vasectamy would you.

case in point is my wifes car its a very nice car on the serface but I tell you I have spent and still have alot of time to spend fixing alot of the silly little things that are wrong with it, nothings dangorus and nothings not technicaly correct, its just alot of things could have been done better and as a result the car would be alot more reliable if the guy would have taken it to some one who new what they were doing.

one classic that comes up at BBQ's all the time is I do all my own work on my car and it runs perfectly, then you hear them leave their cars pinning or missing under load, yea sure it runs but not as efficiantly as it could

That said I have also had times like the good fella above me when I have been too busy to do somthing my self and sent the car to some one that was well known in the industry only to be let down (not as badly as above though)

[ebxr8240]

I do it myself so I KNOW what oil goes in..
My new cars get the 10,000 or so service just to keep up
with any warranty repairs..
Plus I wouldn't leave my XR TT for any workshop tool to drive...

[Ford_The_Win]

I do what I am capable of doing, and what I have the tools to do. It's much cheaper and it means I avoid mechanics who have attempted to rip me off several times.

[Windsor342ci]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

I do it myself so I KNOW what oil goes in..
My new cars get the 10,000 or so service just to keep up
with any warranty repairs..
Plus I wouldn't leave my XR TT for any workshop tool to drive...

Same theory here.

I just don’t feel comfortable with the bigger workshop doing their thing as I just don’t trust what the real oil is inside those drums. The work horses, I do whatever I can within my limits, anything higher end gets done at a workshop I’ve been using for years.

The V8 gets done at AutoTech. I’m more comfortable with them and am happy to be paying a higher cost for a car which is for me, the Pursuit of happiness. AKA Horsepower.

[aussiblue]

The problem I am facing now though is that with six cars in our household and having had some health issues over the last three years (8 collapsed arteries and 7 stents so far) I am finding it increasingly difficult to keep on top of what needs doing and it sometimes takes me a lot longer to do repairs that require sustained physical effort. Other household & DYI jobs also take more effort so I again I now also have less car time.

The hoist is in this year's budget so that should make some tasks easier. But lack of roof space in the shed probably limits me to a mobile scissor lift unless I can find one that can go outdoors (as is common with available car lifts in the USA). Even if I can find one, shire approval for an outside car lift might also be an issue.

If the cardiologist keeps his promise and can finally reopen and stent the remaining collapsed artery, that he has already tried three times to open, I might feel like the new man as he also promised. If not, I think I will shortly have to significantly rationalise the number of cars to one per person (or 4 in all) and perhaps look at updating to a couple of new or near new cars for the wife and I so hopefully the amount of major repair work is reduced.

Ideally I should retire as that would leave me a lot of car time but with two adult "kippers" (kids in parents' pockets eroding retirement income) at home this currently isn't an option. Don't get me wrong;I like having both sons at home but it does have a financial impact.

If all else fails I may have to look again for a trustworthy mechanic for any work requiring any sustained physical effort. Getting someone else to work on my cars won't sit well with me though and it also sticks in my mind that my father died not long after he decided he was no longer fit enough to do his own car repair and maintenance work. Getting old sucks. but I guess it's better than the alternative.

[Franco Cozzo]

Oils, filters, spark plugs I am comfortable doing on my own with a trolley jack and stands, I've also got all the tools I need.

Timing belt, its going to the mechanic, lol.

[svo supporter]

If you're confident enough in your own ability, it's perfectly fine servicing your own vehicles.

Of course you can stuff things up yourself, however this can and is part and parcel of learning. Yes, it can be an expensive stuff up, but it's something you take the chance on. (Not that I'm not encouraging you to give repairs a crack). Even fully qualified mechanics stuff things up.

There are rogue mechanics out there, along with other trades. That's an unfortunate fact of life and hopefully people don't get caught out by these lowlives.

There are cases where mechanics miss things, yet you'll pick them up. Sometimes this is a result of slackness, someimes this is a result of a mechanic being pushed for time by their bosses. So that's something for the person to take into consideration.

When it comes to cars under warranty, best getting them done by qualified mechanics, so that valuable warranty you have paid for isn't stuffed up.

[Jim Goose]

Over the past 15 or so year I have tried to do everything i can do at home (given my limited space, tools etc). I have slowly over the year gotten a massive new shed and bought tools as i needed them, to the point where i can do most things at home.

Anything too technical like engine rebuilds is certainly out of my league, but its not hard to remove and install an engine or tranny (have done i think 4 cars, but at least 40 aircraft engines!)

If your confient enough to do a service, then do it at home and then see the mechanic for things which require say a diagnostic program and computer etc.....

Changing plugs, leads, fluids, oils, bearings, brakes, wheels etc is pretty easy and just requires common sence, if your unsure buy one of those manuals and follow what it says.

[4.0i_SiX]

being a mechanic who takes pride in my work. I would say find a good mechanic that you trust and stick with it. Quite often I have to repair "home jobs" that end up costing the owner far more than what it would have if they didnt touch it in the first place. However. IF you are mechanically minded, by all means do a service yourself. I do recommend getting it put up on a hoist at least once a year though. I do some work on my own cars on the weekends etc and its amazing how much I can miss or how much easier it is to spot, when its up in the air on a hoist as opposed to on the driveway at home.

My recommendation is, dont attack something fairly major on a sunday if you need the car to get to work on a monday! chances are something so simple is going to turn to crap.

[Psi-Pop]

I service all newer cars to the service guidelines, spend a good few hours with them up on the hoist at home. Ill do every job but trans rebuilds, but like was mentioned I'm in the trade somewhat, (Fitter/Turner+Engine Builder) So i have a decent mechanical background.

For services where its just oil and filter I cant see why a home job isn't as good as a workshop. Generally people care more about their own cars than a customers.

[XP6]

Im for pro's doing the shopping trolley(FGxr6)... I've lifted the hood twice, once with the salesman and once to run a tape measure over it!
The ute(97 bravo)I'll do the very basic servicing only, just had all the suspension rebuilt $2k later and Im happy and did even get me hands dirty she's like a new one!
The xp hands are dirty very dirty, only a few things will be done by the pro's like the engine core build and suspension settings because I know my limits, I'll be doing the rest though

[flappist]

Old technology car, about the same.

New technology car, if you do not have all the gizmos and cheat sheets you are servicing your car in the same way that 12 year olds service computers.

[pottery beige]

my labour is free.. and workmanship is guaranteed...

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

my labour is free.. and workmanship is guaranteed...

Yep in 45 years I've had no warranty claims...The old bugger does o/k...

[Kamshaaft]

I haven't been to a mechanic since October 2010. I remember the time because I had to do a run from the Tullamarine Airport, Melbourne to Brisbane's North with a V.I.P in an EF. You'd think such a vehicle would be the perfect car (and hey they get unreal ileage out on the open road, even with the auto, even at high speed).
After making excellent time through victoria and into NSW, I started to become unstuck with the revs droping sharpely every now and then, and the power not being transferred to the wheels as you'd expect. This worsened until the car was dropping several thousand RPM at a time and could barely move for lurching forwards..
After a call to a mate and some testing it was quickly discovered that the problem was I had a tranny fluid leak somewhere in my auto (which I traced along the line of brunt fluid dripping along my exhaust to somewhere about the rear end of the transmission), compounded by the fact that Ford Austalia for god knows what reason, decided to leave the tranny fluid dipstick AND the filler tube off this model Falcon, so I couldn't just run into town and grab some ATX.

Unable to get mobile service and in the middle of nowhere I was considering just torching the car and taking what I could carry and thumb it, but thankfully I was able to limp it into a larger regional town's Ford Dealership. And I mean limp, it had about as much will to go as a slug with hangover.

They didn't seem particulary busy when I 'pulled in' with a whole lot of lurchy sounding rvs and not a lot of movement and told them what we'd deduced, only having two cars in their 4 or 5 bays, but they still took two hours to diagnose what it had taken us two minutes to, then the rest of the day and $300 to fit a new tail shaft bushing. I paid it and was just happy to be back on the road.

Barely 100kilomtres out of town, it's getting dark, and I start to think I'm imagining things. Nope, another 50ks and there it is again, it's real. The revs are starting their little rollerocaster ride and I am beginning to see faint wisps of white smoke in my rear view. I barely made it into a motel in Dubbo - when I should have been crossing the border into QLD - where a friend with a tilt tray had to depart from to come and pick my car up. The only highlight was for the locals when I got locked out of my room for an hour in West Dubbo around 11pm in nothing but my undies. It was frakin' cold that October.

As soon as the friend with the tilt tray arrived with his girlfriend we loaded the car up, 5 am in the morning, and turned around for Brisbane.
We all slept like logs when we got back that night, and the next day we had located a low mileage replacement transmission.

The punchline? The mechanics cost me $300 and a DAY (plus the rest in result), and didn't fix the problem.
For $200 and less than two hours while drinking beers, we had a replacement transmission in the car - and it was an EL tranny with filler tube and dipstick. That I made sure of.

The mechanics used junkyard parts too, mind you.




There's only one garage that have proved themselves to myself and my family and unfortunately for me now they're miles and miles away in the small town of Walla Walla, NSW.

[RHR]

Dont have a problem with it in fact I enjoy servicing my car. As others have stated I KNOW what oil is going into it and I know what is being done to it. Every time i wash the thing I generally check in and around it for any problems. The bonus of having mags is you can easliy see the brake rotors and pads in order to monitor their ware. Every time i service it myself it get right under it and check for leaks damage etc.

Just about to change the Manual gearbox oil and diff oil and i cant wait to do it.

I have most of the tools required and if some sort of fault develops with the car its the only time it goes to a mechanic

Perfect example why I'm not too keen on some mechanics was when i had my BA MKII turbo.

15k service stated the brake pads had 70% left
They did a 30K service and stated 80% left

Begs the question. Did they even look at the pads or was it a guesstimate

Had the work LO-LUX serviced at toymota for its 10k. They did not change the oil filter and it didnt even look like they changed the oil. Im now in the habbit of writing on the filter with a white out pen when the next service is due just so i know it gets changed.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by RHR

The bonus of having mags is you can easliy see the brake rotors and pads in order to monitor their ware. Every time i service it myself .

Please don't fall into that trap. Take wheels off, as the inner pad wears more than the outer.

[calais]

Just as Pottery said earlier in this thread.

My workmanship is guaranteed. And my labour is free.

What more do I need for the basics? If an engine needs to come out, I can handle that. Same goes for the transmission or diff, but when it comes down to it, if I feel as though a task will leave me out of my depth I have no hesitation in arranging a specialist to take over.

That said though, I take a great deal of pride in how I maintain my vehicles, and if I get even the slightest feeling that a tradesman isn't all he is cracked up to be, I walk away and I dont spare the reason why. I mean if the tradesman cant even take the time to explain what he is doing to MY car, I dont want to patronise his business. Whether thats means a diff, fitting tyres, or even washing the car, If they can't explain what they are using or how they do it, they won't be providing services for me.