Mercedes with Sinister Past..

[csv8]

Zenop Tuncer, owner of Euro Tech Motors in Edgewater, New Jersey got a pretty serious shock when trying to find a part for a 1942 Mercedes-Benz 320 Cabriolet D convertible. Upon calling the German automaker and checking the car's serial number, Tuncer learned that the seemingly innocent classic car had a sinister past.

"[The serial number] was a swastika with the numbers on it and then we got all the papers which said it belongs to Hitler," Tuncer told WCBS 880.

Apparently, only eight of these exact vehicles were produced and they all belonged to members of the Third Reich.

The car's owner, Fred Daibes, simply said he was shocked by the information.

Daibes had purchased the car from a collector in Ohio, who told Tuncer that his grandfather had served in WWII and had brought the car back from Germany. He may have painted the car black to sneak it aboard a military ship, CBS 2 surmised.

Further investigation with Mercedes uncovered that the car was not owned by Hitler directly, but by one of his generals.
http://autos.aol.com/article/nj-hitl...?ncid=webmail7

[BHDOGS]

Big whoop a car a fat German use to drive in why people place value on such trivial things like this is beyond me What's next a toilet Neil Armstrong took a dump in once

[barra240t]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Big whoop a car a fat German use to drive in why people place value on such trivial things like this is beyond me What's next a toilet Neil Armstrong took a dump in once

Obviously history wasn't a popular subject at school for you??

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Obviously history wasn't a popular subject at school for you??

Actually I loved history I just don't care about anything the nazis had to do with if your happy to make money of the suffering of millions more power to you

[blk6t]

Fascinating mate, I really liked learning about Hitler, the Nazi regime and the war...it's something that the majority of us have never seen or lived through, and hopefully never do.

I also found it amazing how the swastika become the badge of honor with white supremacists and the number 88 which is a common tattoo within prisons around the world and still is today.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Actually I loved history I just don't care about anything the nazis had to do with if your happy to make money of the suffering of millions more power to you

There is a difference in glorifiying an object with a sordid past (like if a nazi skinhead bought the car or other "nazi" war items) and understanding the item has a dark history.

There are plenty of WW2 german fighters being restored at great expense, you can even buy BRAND NEW ME262 jet fighter replicas from ww2.
A lot of movie props (specially in the 70s and 80s) were genuine nazi/ allied vehicles etc...
Tanks, staff cars, uniforms etc are mostly bought by collectors because they do have a historical value, even if its past is tainted.

As I said, if the guy was a nazi, and doing it because he glorifies its history, then yes its a worry.

Same with items from the cold war, should all "commie" related items from the former USSR be destroyed?

I have a collection of red army military posters from the 1980s simply because i thought it would be interesting to have. Hell if i could afford it, i would buy a Mig-21!

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Hell if i could afford it, i would buy a Mig-21!

I'm guessing you could probably buy a Mig 15 as a lawn ornament from Eastern Europe for not much over the price of getting it shipped over here. It not like they have any use for them, and they've been sitting in storage for the past 30-40 years since they left operational service.

The difference being that if you got a Mig 21, depending on the source country it may actually be flyable.

[lilmattie]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Actually I loved history I just don't care about anything the nazis had to do with if your happy to make money of the suffering of millions more power to you

Have a little perspective and try to stay on topic. It wasn't the car's fault...

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Big whoop a car a fat German use to drive in why people place value on such trivial things like this is beyond me What's next a toilet Neil Armstrong took a dump in once

Probably a lot of people feel the same way when we talk about classic Fords, Holdens, Valiants and the people like Moffat, Brock, Geoghan etc.

The value of a vehicle and its history are only appreciated by those that are interested in it. I know guys who laughed at people paying the high prices for a GTHO or RT Charger, as they deemed them old cars not worth the money, but would pay top dollar for an AMG Black series.

Each to their own.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Big whoop a car a fat German use to drive in why people place value on such trivial things like this is beyond me What's next a toilet Neil Armstrong took a dump in once

Is that like adding a couple of letters and numbers to some crappy old Falcon model? Most would see that as trivial... people who know / care would see that as an extra 1/4 million dollars.. if not more!

[poppa smurf]

the history of a motor vehicle can make it highly valuable and one that could possibly be placed in high esteem........for instance if Brockeys Torana came up cheap????? would you buy it?

after all it is merely an old torana that some dead bloke used to drive?

what about the pair of ford coupes that came first and second at bathurst ......just a pair of coupes???......no greater value than any other?

I once bought a motor vehicle that was reserved for the queen on one of her royal visits......she never came so the vehicle was never used for that purpose but the story added to the value enormously and i did alright out of it

the history of this motor vehicle makes it unique and in my opinion valued above a standard vehicle......I for one would like to own it simply because of its past.......if only it could talk

I'd buy that loo as well LOL!

[Jim Goose]

History (good or bad) should never be shunned, as long as it isnt glorified (the car) then all is good.

Plenty of stuff was um liberated from Germany when WW2 ended.
Owning such items would be a little weird but personally to me its historic value alone is worth it.

[SteveJH]

What would a car that was the official vehicle for someone like the 'Desert Fox' Field Marshall Rommel, Colonal General Heinz Guderian, Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery be worth these days?

[HUNTER8]

One of the Mercs from Hitler's personal fleet sold for $8m in 2009.

http://www.bornrich.com/entry/most-e...-adolf-hitler/

[RedHotGT]

I honestly thought this was going to be about that Mercedes that Lewis Hamilton did burnouts in at the Formula1 GP a couple of years back.........

[Mr Hardware]

Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, after all, he did kill Hitler.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, after all, he did kill Hitler.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, after all, he did kill Hitler.

Hitler was a great bloke if you were a German in the early part of last century. However, like with most governments, everything turned to crap.

He wasn’t all bad, if it wasn’t for him, Germany wouldn’t have any autobahns.

[2011G6E]

"Sinister Past"...

I saw a magazine article some years back about the restoration of two magnificent late 1930's Auto Union (now Audi) racers...the ones with the driver up front and a big sixteen cylinder engine behind him...which had been found packed away in what was East Germany.
These cars had been built just before and during war time by Jewish slave labour in the factories.
While they were cleaning one of the carbs on the massive engines, they found, scratched scratched underneath a fuel bowl where it wouldn't be seen, a Jewish Star Of David.
The guy who had overseen the restoration projects said "the whole workshop gathered around and fell quiet, passing around and looking at this one little act of defiance by someone who probably ended their lives in misery and pain".

That's a "sinister past"...

[gcg2503]

^^^Love the act of defiance. That is brilliant 2011G6E!

[Jim Goose]

There are/ was several Mig-15s here in Australia and a Mig-17 (it never flew as far as i know), but the 15s flew, sadly one crashed some 10yrs ago ? (was a 2seater) and killed both people. Czech Aero L-39 trainers and a couple of An-2 cargo planes (no idea if they still alive), Yak-17s... i know in NZ there are a few Polikarpov/ early Mig piston WW2 fighters....

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

There are/ was several Mig-15s here in Australia and a Mig-17 (it never flew as far as i know), but the 15s flew, sadly one crashed some 10yrs ago ? (was a 2seater) and killed both people. Czech Aero L-39 trainers and a couple of An-2 cargo planes (no idea if they still alive), Yak-17s... i know in NZ there are a few Polikarpov/ early Mig piston WW2 fighters....

What was it that crashed near Bathurst a couple of years back? I remember seeing the smoke from the top of the Mountain the next day when I got there.

I think it was Russian?

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

What was it that crashed near Bathurst a couple of years back? I remember seeing the smoke from the top of the Mountain the next day when I got there.

I think it was Russian?

Yea that was it.. a Mig-15UTI.

[Neale]

Great find about the merc, thats what I love about old cars is the history behind them.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yea that was it.. a Mig-15UTI.

It was a pommy jet provost (1960's vintage)

more can be read about the incident here
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...Ny5oObWv2mMY5g


The pilot of the crashed jet also owned a few other warbirds including two mig 15's that were up until the last couple of months were lawn ornaments at Bathurst airport, not sure where they are now hopefully getting looked after.

Sure theres alot of "cheap" warbirds, but not many "cheap" airworthy ones. especially ex military. They are usually worn out & need lots & lots of money (like 100's of thousands of dollars thrown at them all of the time) to keep them flying. A classic example is the one that crashed in Bathurst, it was a worn out airframe.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Neale

Great find about the merc, thats what I love about old cars is the history behind them.



It was a pommy jet provost (1960's vintage)

more can be read about the incident here
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...Ny5oObWv2mMY5g


The pilot of the crashed jet also owned a few other warbirds including two mig 15's that were up until the last couple of months were lawn ornaments at Bathurst airport, not sure where they are now hopefully getting looked after.

Sure theres alot of "cheap" warbirds, but not many "cheap" airworthy ones. especially ex military. They are usually worn out & need lots & lots of money (like 100's of thousands of dollars thrown at them all of the time) to keep them flying. A classic example is the one that crashed in Bathurst, it was a worn out airframe.

Opps the Mig-15 crash was near canberra and back in 1996.
Worn airframes, like worn out cars can be kept airworthy for a long time, but sometimes certain areas cant be inspected unless the aircraft is pulled apart completely, like a wing box section or wing spar.

[Nikked]

While not one of these Hitler supporters...He did give the world the Volkswagon Beetle...

And now Volkswagon are one of the world's largest automakers...

[music189]

Originally Posted by Nikked

While not one of these Hitler supporters...He did give the world the Volkswagon Beetle...

And now Volkswagon are one of the world's largest automakers...

those in the trade dont call the original Beetle "Hitlers revenge" for nothing!!

[BHDOGS]

It's ******* sick that something is deemed more valuable because some douchebag general who helped murder millions owned it that's all I'm saying now I'm leaving this thread As it disgusts me

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

It's ******* sick that something is deemed more valuable because some douchebag general who helped murder millions owned it that's all I'm saying now I'm leaving this thread As it disgusts me

Don't get ya pantys in a knot mate

How amazing would it be, being the owner and finding out the history of the car, would be very eye opening that's for sure.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

It's ******* sick that something is deemed more valuable because some douchebag general who helped murder millions owned it that's all I'm saying now I'm leaving this thread As it disgusts me

See the thread title, read the thread and dont like it but still post dont post, simple.
Its not like the car did it.
OT to find out you are the owner of a car with such a 'morbid' history, would be a shock but somewhat exciting at the same time, if only the car could talk the stories it would tell. Also gives another little insight to its infamous former owners life.