2 Cars Colliding at an amber light (car turning right into oncoming traffic)?

[K93George]

I was incredibly close, only a metre or so from hitting a car turning in front of me. The situation...

Driving dead on 60, light turns amber, continue driving, I start feeling like its been amber for too long, think to myself "hope I don't run the red". At this point I couldn't see anyone turning as multiple cars on my side where still trying to complete there turn, so this guy most likely didn't see me. I make it full car length into the intersection, still amber then out comes a car, I honestly didn't think I would stop in time, but fortunately I did. At this point it was red, I believe he pulled out as soon as it turned red, couldn't see anyone and continued his turn, sounds sensible. I really feel at fault here, could of stopped but didn't because... I knew I'd make it through on the amber? Bad mentality, so many do it, i'm just so happy I didn't hit him!

What do you guys think, running the amber because you can make it? Most of the time I stop but there are those random occasions where you miss judge the distance and think "hmm, could of stopped" or "could of made it".

[Werd.]

Yes you were pushing it, but the most important thing is, he was turning across oncoming traffic, and his light wasn't green.

Fact is even after the light goes red, you still have a second or two before theirs should go green. I know in his situation he's allowed to turn on the red, but only if oncoming traffic permits.

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by Werd.

Yes you were pushing it, but the most important thing is, he was turning across oncoming traffic, and his light wasn't green.

Fact is even after the light goes red, you still have a second or two before theirs should go green. I know in his situation he's allowed to turn on the red, but only if oncoming traffic permits.

Turning right across traffic is never permitted on red...

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by madmelon

Turning right across traffic is never permitted on red...

Yes it is, if you're already inside the intersection.

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by Werd.

Yes you were pushing it, but the most important thing is, he was turning across oncoming traffic, and his light wasn't green.

Fact is even after the light goes red, you still have a second or two before theirs should go green. I know in his situation he's allowed to turn on the red, but only if oncoming traffic permits.

Originally Posted by Werd.

Yes it is, if you're already inside the intersection.

Sorry but what you said in the first post made it sound like the whole "Turn on red permitted after stopping", which definitely isn't allowed on right turns. Obviously if you're already in the intersection it's just clearing the intersection.

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by madmelon

Sorry but what you said in the first post made it sound like the whole "Turn on red permitted after stopping", which definitely isn't allowed on right turns. Obviously if you're already in the intersection it's just clearing the intersection.

Yeah my bad for not making that clearer. I assume that's what happened to OP though, someone sitting inside the intersection waiting to turn across.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by K93George

Driving dead on 60, light turns amber, continue driving, I start feeling like its been amber for too long, think to myself "hope I don't run the red".

Sorry, this part seems to indicate you could have easily, and should have, stopped before the intersection.

You should be ready for the lights to change to amber, and be ready to stop if they do, as long as you are before the intersection still, and have the distance to stop before the intersection without jamming on the brakes. The timing of the lights generally allows for this..

[K93George]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Sorry, this part seems to indicate you could have easily, and should have, stopped before the intersection.

You should be ready for the lights to change to amber, and be ready to stop if they do.

I know, I could of stopped. I didn't because I "knew" I'd clear it. I wasn't actually in a rush either, just taking the XR for its drive as it was in the garage for some time. As I said, usually do stop but didn't this time and it almost cost me!

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by K93George

I know, I could of stopped. I didn't because I "knew" I'd clear it. I wasn't actually in a rush either, just taking the XR for its drive as it was in the garage for some time. As I said, usually do stop but didn't this time and it almost cost me!

I don't see how any of it was your fault, honestly.
Yeah you maybe should have stopped, but it doesn't change the fact that some idiot pulled across in front of you, despite the fact that your light was still relatively "okay"..

What was to stop him from doing it a bit earlier, before you could have stopped for the orange? People just need to be more careful before they mess with cars travelling 60KM/H... Had it happen to me recently and it's not fun being face to face with the side of someones car, while your speedo still says 60.

In my case it wasn't avoidable as there weren't traffic lights, but it's a really, really serious offense to hop in front of a car moving at speed, something people need to not take so lightly.

[K93George]

Originally Posted by Werd.

I don't see how any of it was your fault, honestly.
Yeah you maybe should have stopped, but it doesn't change the fact that some idiot pulled across in front of you, despite the fact that your light was still relatively "okay"..

Might not have been my fault. I like to look back over each of my drives and find ways I could improve or prevent events such as this from occurring. If I hadn't went through the amber simply because I could, I wouldn't have got so close. Its obvious he thought it was clear as the light was amber for some time.

If he cut me off on the green well no questions asked I can't really do anything to prevent that.

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Sorry, this part seems to indicate you could have easily, and should have, stopped before the intersection.

You should be ready for the lights to change to amber, and be ready to stop if they do, as long as you are before the intersection still, and have the distance to stop before the intersection without jamming on the brakes.

this!

orange mean's prepare to stop if you can, ofcourse with todays rush young society they have turned it into "speed up and rush thru if you can make it, you jelly?"

[madmelon]

I believe the law states that amber means stop and you CAN be booked for failing to stop if it was safe to do so.

The other driver also should not have entered the intersection unless they could clear the intersection. Basically, unless you can see a gap you can safely turn through, you don't enter the intersection. Same rule as for roundabouts. I know this isn't how people drive but it's something the instructor stressed to me when I was getting lessons all those years ago.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by madmelon

I believe the law states that amber means stop and you CAN be booked for failing to stop if it was safe to do so.

Try telling that to the people who sit on your bumper and crack various jestures at you when you stop on an orange lol

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Try telling that to the people who sit on your bumper and crack various jestures at you when you stop on an orange lol

I've been rear ended for stopping at a green
He was from the ACT, probably not used to the whole "don't queue across intersections" thing that we have in Sydney traffic.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Try telling that to the people who sit on your bumper and crack various jestures at you when you stop on an orange lol

I know where you are coming from, but some intersections have a really short sequence and just to aid traffic flow going through on the amber is illegal but makes things work better. I have even seen police do it multiple times at a major intersection near me where only 1 side gets a green at a time, and there is a good 5 second gap before the next green lights up after the other one has gone red.

It is also a problem at most intersections with the numpties at the front of the que who either, don't realise it has gone green, or they drive away like their car is powered by a lawn mower engine.

[Phyber]

Originally Posted by madmelon

The other driver also should not have entered the intersection unless they could clear the intersection. Basically, unless you can see a gap you can safely turn through, you don't enter the intersection. Same rule as for roundabouts. I know this isn't how people drive but it's something the instructor stressed to me when I was getting lessons all those years ago.

It's one of those laws that needs to be broken at times. Sitting behind the line at a set of lights might mean you never get a chance to turn. Busy days can see a constant stream of traffic on some inner city roads for an hour or more I'm sure. If it is a set of lights without a turning arrow, you'll go nowhere unless you roll out into the intersection illegally and take that amber turn when it comes!

Would be a royal *** of a cop who booked you for that though, surely.

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by Phyber

It's one of those laws that needs to be broken at times. Sitting behind the line at a set of lights might mean you never get a chance to turn. Busy days can see a constant stream of traffic on some inner city roads for an hour or more I'm sure. If it is a set of lights without a turning arrow, you'll go nowhere unless you roll out into the intersection illegally and take that amber turn when it comes!

Would be a royal *** of a cop who booked you for that though, surely.

Oh I know, just that the law as written is very rarely the law that is driven. Sometimes out of necessity (as you showed) sometimes out of ignorance. Roundabouts are the worst for it.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Phyber

It's one of those laws that needs to be broken at times. Sitting behind the line at a set of lights might mean you never get a chance to turn. Busy days can see a constant stream of traffic on some inner city roads for an hour or more I'm sure. If it is a set of lights without a turning arrow, you'll go nowhere unless you roll out into the intersection illegally and take that amber turn when it comes!

Would be a royal *** of a cop who booked you for that though, surely.

It's not actually illegal to enter the intersection while green if you are waiting to turn, and its legal to complete the turn once through traffic had stopped (because of amber or red light)

[In Focus]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

It's not actually illegal to enter the intersection while green if you are waiting to turn, and its legal to complete the turn once through traffic had stopped (because of amber or red light)

Correct. In WA, at least.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

It's not actually illegal to enter the intersection while green if you are waiting to turn, and its legal to complete the turn once through traffic had stopped (because of amber or red light)

Correct in QLD too.

The simple fact is it is illegal to proceed through an amber light when you could have stopped safely, therefore you are partly at fault.

Just as it is illegal to turn across traffic in that situation, he would also be partly at fault.

Fault in crashes is not always one sided, you can have more than one party at blame.

[xisled]

This is how I would look at it, when I was doing liability with insurance. There is a couple of scenarios.

You admitted you could of stopped safely, you would be found at fault due to your statement. You could also be charged with disobeying traffic signals. If you can stop safely on amber you must.

Next would be if there was no witnesses and you say you went through on green but the other person said you went through red. I would take away the traffic lights a look at who had right of way. In this case it would be you.

[K93George]

Originally Posted by xisled

You admitted you could of stopped safely, you would be found at fault due to your statement. You could also be charged with disobeying traffic signals. If you can stop safely on amber you must.

If I had actually hit him I wouldn't have said anything, I would of left the insurance company to do the work. Can't admit fault with an insurance claim! He most likely would have been at fault. How do you prove that I had time to stop, keeping in mind I was essentially the only car on my lane. So its not like other cars were stoppping and I went through.

I'm just changing the way I approach intersections, this was too close!

[BHDOGS]

i always wait a few extra seconds when im turning right on a green straight on light to make sure everyone coming the other way has stopped at there red light or at least noticeably slowing down always see people running the amber to theres always that one car that wants to get through to the next traffic light 10 second down the road

[zilo]

If both drivers driving through red light then basic rules of the road apply...driver turning gives way to oncoming traffic.

For example...If lights were faulty and said green in every direction then back to basics road rules apply....driver turning gives way.

At worst both drivers pay for their own damage.

However please bear in mind that there are plenty of drivers in heaven who had the right of way...

[MAD]

You were at fault.
The other car shouldn't have gone either, but they had sound reason to believe that no-more cars would be entering the intersection that late in the amber cycle.

Lesson to be learned: If you can't see the intersection properly when entering through an amber, don't enter it.


I have gone to go through an amber once and have this happen, but the car pulled out before I entered the intersection. It still took a bit to stop in time. In my case the light had only just changed and the person could see me but for some reason assumed I was going to stop at the amber. It was on a slight bend so my speed/distance may have been difficult to judge.

[MAD]

You were at fault.
The other car shouldn't have gone either, but they had sound reason to believe that no-more cars would be entering the intersection that late in the amber cycle.

Lesson to be learned: If you can't see the intersection properly when entering through an amber, don't enter it.


I have gone to go through an amber once and had this happen, but the car pulled out before I entered the intersection. It still took a bit of effort to stop in time. In my case the light had only just changed and the person could see me but for some reason assumed I was going to stop at the amber. It was on a slight bend so my speed/distance may have been difficult to judge.

[svo supporter]

One of those situations where hind sight comes to play.....ie maybe I could have stopped safely, or would have I been able to stop safely.

There can be a mile of advise saying you were at fault running the amber, yet if it'd be reversed whereby you did stop and have a car ram you up the clacker, the advise would have been you should have gone through.

End of the day, you didn't run a red light and you didn't have an accident. So everything is good.

[JG66ME]

I found this.

http://cardriving.com.au/106.htm

Turning on full green, give way to oncoming vehicles going straight or turning left, except vehicles turning left in a slip lane:
Crawl forward until the front of your car obstructs the first lane of the crossing road (not farther), and stop.
While crawling forward into the crossing road, keep your wheels straight (do not steer right).

In a 60 km/h zone you will need a gap of at least four seconds (i.e. about 70 meters or 1.5 light pole span) between your car and approaching vehicles.

When there is a gap in the oncoming traffic, or
when the traffic light changes to yellow or red, and the oncoming traffic stops –
complete the turn.

With an oncoming vehicle turning right you make simultaneous turn left side to left side.
However, if the oncoming vehicle turning right narrows your view so that you cannot clearly see if there are any oncoming vehicles going straight or turning left, stop and wait as above as if giving them way.
When either the car narrowing your view has gone, and you can see there is no oncoming traffic going straight or turning left, or
when the traffic light changes to yellow or red, and the oncoming traffic stops –
complete the turn.

While waiting, keep your wheels straight (do not steer right).

Perceive the “entering point” in the lane past the centre of the crossing road where you are turning.

Glance to the left for an emergency vehicle that may be crossing on red, or a psycho running red lights.

Looking at the “entering point”, make a square turn past the middle of the crossing road (right turn is “far and square”).

Starting the right turn in the rightmost lane, enter the crossing road immediately past its centre, into its rightmost lane as well (unless only one lane is allowed right turn AND you are turning on green arrow or into the continuing road of a T-intersection).

[irish2]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

I found this.

http://cardriving.com.au/106.htm

Turning on full green, give way to oncoming vehicles going straight or turning left, except vehicles turning left in a slip lane:
Crawl forward until the front of your car obstructs the first lane of the crossing road (not farther), and stop.
While crawling forward into the crossing road, keep your wheels straight (do not steer right).

In a 60 km/h zone you will need a gap of at least four seconds (i.e. about 70 meters or 1.5 light pole span) between your car and approaching vehicles.

When there is a gap in the oncoming traffic, or
when the traffic light changes to yellow or red, and the oncoming traffic stops –
complete the turn.

With an oncoming vehicle turning right you make simultaneous turn left side to left side.
However, if the oncoming vehicle turning right narrows your view so that you cannot clearly see if there are any oncoming vehicles going straight or turning left, stop and wait as above as if giving them way.
When either the car narrowing your view has gone, and you can see there is no oncoming traffic going straight or turning left, or
when the traffic light changes to yellow or red, and the oncoming traffic stops –
complete the turn.

While waiting, keep your wheels straight (do not steer right).

Perceive the “entering point” in the lane past the centre of the crossing road where you are turning.

Glance to the left for an emergency vehicle that may be crossing on red, or a psycho running red lights.

Looking at the “entering point”, make a square turn past the middle of the crossing road (right turn is “far and square”).

Starting the right turn in the rightmost lane, enter the crossing road immediately past its centre, into its rightmost lane as well (unless only one lane is allowed right turn AND you are turning on green arrow or into the continuing road of a T-intersection).

Halve that amount if you own a turbo falcon.

[mike_nofx]

In theory, on a seriously busy intersection (ie. NO break in through traffic) that does NOT have a turn arrow traffic light, only one car will ever be able to turn right per traffic light cycle.