Country pack, a hypothetical

[flappist]

I have been speaking with a couple of people involved in selling Falcons and one of the subjects that came up was how all the new Falcons are very "city" focussed with big rims, low ground clearance, little or no radiator, intercooler or air intake protection and no "stone proofing".

While none of this is of any interest to those who live in cities or large regional towns and spend all of their time on good quality bitumen roads to the rest of us it can be fairly important.

I specifically did not order the luxury pack from my ute because it came with 19" wheels and I have firends who have fitted 17" wheels to a G6ET and XR6T ute like mine (except it is FG1).

So my hypothetical is that Ford make a "Country Pack" for the Falcon and G range.

The Country Pack consists of:

17" alloy wheels.
17" alloy spare.
Ground clearance raised by 25mm
Stainless steel stone shields for radiator and intercooler if fitted.
Redesigned air intake with water trap capable of operating even if the intake is completely blocked by water for up to 5 seconds.
Larger mud flaps and replacable protection on lower front bodykit.
Larger radio antenna.
Bash plates to protect sump, transmission, diff and IRS arms.

If/when you order a new Falcon or G would you order this option?

Would this option increase the likelyhood of a purchase of a Falcon or G over other "soft road" vehicles. N.B. Soft road is not a Landcruiser or Patrol.

How much would you pay for this option?

[xisled]

I do see this as a good idea. Not everyone lives on a nice smooth flat road.

Personally I like my big rims low cars, but then again I do live in the city and the most off road the car will get, would be if they resurface and it is gravel, after digging it out.

[csv8]

flappist add a bigger fuel tank, 100l ,heavy duty auto trans cooler, heavy duty radiator, not sure how you would have a larger radio antenna, its built into the glass. hot and cold cup holders.the list would be endless as to what a country pack could be. Maybe a road country pack and a conveinence pack ???

[flappist]

Originally Posted by csv8

flappist add a bigger fuel tank, 100l ,heavy duty auto trans cooler, heavy duty radiator, not sure how you would have a larger radio antenna, its built into the glass. hot and cold cup holders.the list would be endless as to what a country pack could be. Maybe a road country pack and a conveinence pack ???

Fuel tank can't be done as it would be a major fundamental redesign of the whole vehicle. I actually ask this question of the design engineers back in the BA days and that was the reply.

Radio antenna on the ute is external. Just put one on the sedan and make it a bit longer.

Radiator and trans coolers are not so much country as long distance and again would require quite a lot of engineering.

All of my "pack" options require little or no engineering with the exception of recalibrating the DSC for the extra 25mm ride hight. I specifically chose them for that reason.

This idea was not originally mine, it was suggested by a mate who is a DP in a country location, I just quantified it.

[Road_Warrior]

Most of the items listed can be fitted to the car by a dealer. Like the dealer fit bash plate for starters. Better off that way too, takes the parts complexity out of the hands of the manufacturer and leaves the fitting to the dealer where the service/parts expertise is.

[TheSneakiness]

I wouldn't personally buy this option for a Falcon, but can see where it may benefit others.

[Silver Ghia]

Just worried about the standard Falcon suspension, how that would stand up to gravel roads every day. Perhaps there needs to be a heavy duty suspension included?

[Road_Warrior]

It would depend a lot on the variant of the car you wanted to apply the 'country pack' to, i.e. you wouldn't make it an option on a GT, but for cars like say an XT, you could use the XR6T radiator in it (thicker core I believe), the factory mud spats with say an additional moulded rubber lip attached to them, factory 17in wheels with different tyres on them (higher sidewall to deal with rough roads? This in itself could provide part of the ride height lift needed), and the rest is probably available via the aftermarket or through Ford. I know the fibre bash plate/guard is because I fitted one to my BA.

[ELAUBA]

RTV across the entire range FTW.

It's easier to just build what you want from the Ford parts bin yourself than try and get Ford to do it. I wanted an Auto 290kW RTV ute. It's a weapon.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I know the fibre bash plate/guard is because I fitted one to my BA.

I had one too and it was useless for anything other than as a template to make one that actually works out of 6mm 5083.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

....takes the parts complexity out of the hands of the manufacturer and leaves the fitting to the dealer where the service/parts expertise is.

Beacuse the manufacturer knows less than a dealer about manufacturing a car?!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by ELAUBA

Beacuse the manufacturer knows less than a dealer about manufacturing a car?!

No, because the dealership has the time, technicians and parts available for retrofitting which is a lot easier for Ford than adding more parts complexity to the assembly line

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It would depend a lot on the variant of the car you wanted to apply the 'country pack' to, i.e. you wouldn't make it an option on a GT, but for cars like say an XT, you could use the XR6T radiator in it (thicker core I believe), the factory mud spats with say an additional moulded rubber lip attached to them, factory 17in wheels with different tyres on them (higher sidewall to deal with rough roads? This in itself could provide part of the ride height lift needed), and the rest is probably available via the aftermarket or through Ford. I know the fibre bash plate/guard is because I fitted one to my BA.

A country pack GT for dirt roads would be whoresome :-)

As for front skirts scraping etc. FG FPV is a mile ahead from BA/F FPV in that regard. I am not sure if the normal variants of those series also saw a similar corresponding improvement in approach angle. As for rims, yes I would prefer a good looking 18" rim over the same in 19".

[FPV GTHO]

I think if i was looking for a normal Falcon and needed these sorts of items, i'd just get a Territory.

Dont they already have a water trap in the intake? Isnt that the point of the snorkel feeding high on the car, low into the airbox and the engine then sucking high from the airbox?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

I think if i was looking for a normal Falcon and needed these sorts of items, i'd just get a Territory.

Dont they already have a water trap in the intake? Isnt that the point of the snorkel feeding high on the car, low into the airbox and the engine then sucking high from the airbox?

Bit of a problem if you want a ute.
Also the Territory is a "truck" like all the other SUVs

I suspect many tend to fixate on "Simpson Desert" or "Leyland Brothers" when they think of any road outside a city or main highway. This is hardly the case.

Not many dinged rims come from dirt roads, they are a product of badly maintained bitumen roads.

The idea of this was to see if making a "less city" option would give the Falcon an edge over Commodore, Aurion et. al. not to compete with dedicated soft road vehicles.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Bit of a problem if you want a ute.
Also the Territory is a "truck" like all the other SUVs

I suspect many tend to fixate on "Simpson Desert" or "Leyland Brothers" when they think of any road outside a city or main highway. This is hardly the case.

Not many dinged rims come from dirt roads, they are a product of badly maintained bitumen roads.

The idea of this was to see if making a "less city" option would give the Falcon an edge over Commodore, Aurion et. al. not to compete with dedicated soft road vehicles.

The RTV ute was a flop.

I find it amusing that the Territory is 'truck' and not suitable to country Ford buyers, but its quite acceptable that anyone who wishes to own a Falcon wagon should put up with said 'truck...'

Mind you, im not in the market for a new Falcon so my opinion is proberbly irrelevant.

[jpd80]

When Territory was first introduced, a lot of rural Fairlane buyers switched to Territory Ghia,
I think the extra ground clearance and AWD are more welcome additions for country driving...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The RTV ute was a flop.

I find it amusing that the Territory is 'truck' and not suitable to country Ford buyers, but its quite acceptable that anyone who wishes to own a Falcon wagon should put up with said 'truck...'

Mind you, im not in the market for a new Falcon so my opinion is proberbly irrelevant.

Yes the RTV was a flop.

The point of this is not to make a Falcon that can go anywhere, it is to make a Falcon that does not damage the rims every week in potholes on what is laughingly called the national highway.
A Falcon that does not scrape its guts constantly on driveways.
A Falcon that can actually hear a radio station even after you cannot see the radio tower anymore.
A Falcon that does not hiccup when it is drowned by the spray from a truck going the other way in wet weather.
A Falcon that does not have its radiator and intercooler covered in dings from stones thown up from the feeble attempts to fix the above mentioned potholes or from when two vehicles have one wheel in the dirt when they pass on a single lane road.

Basically a Falcon the is more suitable to be driven on ordinary bitumen roads outside the capital cities.

As far as the wagon thing. It was only discontinued because people were not buying it.

Just to try and clarify this a bit more. That the body specs of a AU3 Fairmont with regard wheels, ride height etc. That is all that is needed for my "country pack" idea.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes the RTV was a flop.

The point of this is not to make a Falcon that can go anywhere, it is to make a Falcon that does not damage the rims every week in potholes on what is laughingly called the national highway.
A Falcon that does not scrape its guts constantly on driveways.
A Falcon that can actually hear a radio station even after you cannot see the radio tower anymore.
A Falcon that does not hiccup when it is drowned by the spray from a truck going the other way in wet weather.
A Falcon that does not have its radiator and intercooler covered in dings from stones thown up from the feeble attempts to fix the above mentioned potholes or from when two vehicles have one wheel in the dirt when they pass on a single lane road.

Basically a Falcon the is more suitable to be driven on ordinary bitumen roads outside the capital cities.

As far as the wagon thing. It was only discontinued because people were not buying it.

Just to try and clarify this a bit more. That the body specs of a AU3 Fairmont with regard wheels, ride height etc. That is all that is needed for my "country pack" idea.

The RTV was a flop because no one wanted a falcon ute with extra ride height.
The country pack from years ago was dropped because no one wanted it.

Ford has provided a vehicle to suit Ford buyers who need country road compatibility, its called a Territory in RWD.

Ford are in the business of telling you what you need, not providing what you want...

[MercurySilver]

one reason why 18 inch rims and decent non low profile tyres are my choice
our country winding roads out here are crap, been patched up a million times and still pot holes everywhere
i like nice rims and a lowered car that sits just above the rear tyre, but its just not that practical for me out on country roads
if i ever bought a new car (unlikely) i would see what options i could get for sure, if there was a 'country pack'

[Mr Hardware]

I see this as rather much a moot point, as drivers these days think they 'need a 4WD' if maybe once they might see a dirt road maybe.

However, the country packs did make good taxis. Except for ones with bullbars, bullbars tend to exacerbate damage rather than lessen it.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I see this as rather much a moot point, as drivers these days think they 'need a 4WD' if maybe once they might see a dirt road maybe.

Its pretty sad that even my standard AU XLS ute scraps mufflers on some parking bay speed bumps
Nothin worse than praying every time anything higher than a few inches in the way doesn't rip something off ....
My ute is a good package,power,economy,comfort, but that ground clearance or lack off,has got me looking for something else
Its either an RTV ,or mite even go a V8 converted patrol ute
I dont need massive clearance , but side steppin speed bumps ,im not 17 anymore

[Bossxr8]

Ford dropped the previous country pack years ago due to low demand, and they dropped the RTV due to low sales.

Isn't that enough proof not enough people want it to be viable.

People will just buy an SUV or a dual cab ute if they want to go off the beaten track, sales have proven that this is the way people are heading with increased sales in these 2 segments for years.

[Bluehoon]

BA & BF did have the "bash kit". Sump & trans guard. That was dropped from parts division due to low sales as well...

Idea is novel, however there comes a point where you either want a small 4wd or a falcon / commodore. Where do you draw the line?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

BA & BF did have the "bash kit". Sump & trans guard. That was dropped from parts division due to low sales as well...

Idea is novel, however there comes a point where you either want a small 4wd or a falcon / commodore. Where do you draw the line?

Well in that case the line would be drawn at a 50km circle from each capital city.

Have you seen the state of the regional arterial roads.......

To clarify; this is not for the Simpson Desert. This is for normal travel on normal bitumen roads outside the CBDs and trendy suburbs.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford dropped the previous country pack years ago due to low demand, and they dropped the RTV due to low sales.

Isn't that enough proof not enough people want it to be viable.

People will just buy an SUV or a dual cab ute if they want to go off the beaten track, sales have proven that this is the way people are heading with increased sales in these 2 segments for years.

Yes Territory is the obvious answer. They drive pretty much like a Falcon anyway until you start pressing real hard. Wish they had latest generation engines though.

As for the dual-cab ute thing, personally I could never drive such a relatively crude and ponderous truck for 99% road work. But I am obviously in the minority there.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by mcnews

As for the dual-cab ute thing, personally I could never drive such a relatively crude and ponderous truck for 99% road work. But I am obviously in the minority there.

I'm right with you there. Even if I was doing 50/50 on/off road driving I'd cringe at the thought of buying one of those hideous tractors pretending to be cars.

[Burnout]

My brother had an XC outback pack, loaded with a 5.8V8, 36 gallon fuel tank.
IT gave great service,however, in ,79 he traded it as all the welds holding the thing together had failed.... about the only thing holding it into shape was the front and rear glass and the windscreen use to crack regularly.
I don't reckon there were enough welds in the body work to keep the outback pack worthy of use to an outback motorist.
He was hurling it into town one time and a porker, one of them big channel country grunters ran out onto the road.... the right hand front suspension, upper and lower, wheel n' all was taken out by the pig. The XC went bush and sideswiped a narrow leaf box tree. In spite of this the car survived.....

I drive an RTV, had a Tojo Hilux 4x4 as a company hack at my last job. Bloody thing was a kidney smasher of considerable note. I've got no time for any of them & that includes the Ranger, it suffers the same malaise, although to a lessor degree.

I reckon an 'outback pack' would at least, need more welding time on the line just for it to stay together over a reasonable lifetime. Admittedly the XA,B,C series were disadvantaged in design by the 'whimpering scribblers' of the day wanting narrower and narrower "A" pillars as some sort of safety idea.

[2011G6E]

We traded our G6E on a Mitsubishi Triton dual cab GLX-R...and you know what? It's far more comfortable and just as quiet...sometimes quieter inside...than the luxurious G6E was...

Out here, roads are atrocious...rough edges, drop offs at the edge of the bitumen of sometimes three inches, potholes that just go on and on...a "country pack" makes perfect sense for people out in , well, the country, who want a sedan.

Raised suspension by (taking our G6E as an example), at least an inch or inch and a half...17" wheels with tyres that actually have a sidewall...stronger suspension, sump protection, the usual stuff.

I still see heaps of RTV's out here, and a sedan done the same would sell well.

[mac_man_luke]

Originally Posted by mcnews

As for the dual-cab ute thing, personally I could never drive such a relatively crude and ponderous truck for 99% road work. But I am obviously in the minority there.

Not driven a new Ranger? Handles pretty damn good and heap more comfortable than my XR8 ute.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

People will just buy an SUV or a dual cab ute if they want to go off the beaten track,

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I see this as rather much a moot point, as drivers these days think they 'need a 4WD' if maybe once they might see a dirt road maybe.

i think you are missing the point. i don't think flappist is referring to those who 'venture off the beaten track once in a while' but those who actually live off the beaten track.

i agree with RW though. needs to be a 'dealer fit' option. there wouldn't be enough demand for ford to do it and increasing options lists just adds complexity to the build line. everything that is required in the OP can be retro fitted by a dealer. the only issue would be the DSC calibration for taller tyres or increased ride height.

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Just worried about the standard Falcon suspension, how that would stand up to gravel roads every day. Perhaps there needs to be a heavy duty suspension included?

the standard suspension would hold up fine, esp in XT spec. being stiffer will only make it worse.

[Chopped]

Hhhmmm not a bad idea. Ford could do the following for the ute -

- Semi Trailer size bull bar, heavy enough to lower the front suspension.

- Multiple aerials that are big enough to able talk to people on the Space Station.

- Western Star, Kenworth or CAT truck Mudflaps hanging from the front and back

- The biggest RM Williams sticker available to be shown on every possible rear facing panel and window

- Flag holders with optional flags

- Truck running lights

- At least six spotlights the size of steering wheels in different colours

- Multiple number plates

- Dedicated Troy Cassar-Daley music player