XR5T or XR6T

[deon_ysus]

Hey everyone, So I'm new here and I hope I'm posting this in the right spot!
I'm a 19 y/o male no longer on my P's and I've decided that I will part with my Suzuki Sierra and instead I will be buying an either an FG XR6T (2008 - 2010) or an XR5T around the same year bracket. I've driven both and they are quite fun.

My budgets sorta around $21k cash give or take, and probably around 90k on the clock for both vehicles (I've had a look around and both seem pretty much exactly the same in terms of price and age in WA). Insurance is almost the same for both.

My minds set on one of these two vehicles so I shan't be swayed, but as I ride my motorbike to uni or from A to B, I'd want this as my fun car which I can take out on sunday, get my shopping or my wet weather car etc. I will more then likely do some minor work too either vehicles, but I definitely won't be doing any mods that put crazy amounts of extra power at the rear / front wheels.

So what I'm wondering as both cars have around 3 - 5 years behind them, what car would you recommend too get in terms of reliability / part availability / cost of fixing / modding / resale / overall safeness ?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by deon_ysus

So what I'm wondering as both cars have around 3 - 5 years behind them, what car would you recommend too get in terms of reliability / part availability / cost of fixing / modding / resale / overall safeness ?

In my opinion..

Reliability- Depends on the car, I assume on average the Focus will be better, XR6Ts still have a few areas that fail predictably- diff bushes, auto gearbox heat exchangers- nothing that can't be avoided through preventative maintenance though.
Parts availability- Falcon
Cost of repairs- Again depends on what goes wrong, but Euro Fords are expensive and XR6T parts can be had cheap.
Modding- Falcon has huge potential, but even as a stock car it is more potent than modded XR5T will be.
Resale- Too many factors
Safety- Falcon.

[BEN189]

XR6T for pace, XR5T for fun, refinement and that "European" feel. That is comparing manual only as my GF has a XR5T and I used to have a FG XR6T in manual.

[GQ_Smooth]

If you can find a XR6T in good condition, that would be my pic. You may experience more "minor" issues over time, but overall cost of ownership should be less. Not to mention if you ever chose to go down the modification route, to potential is almost endless.

[WILDB]

They are both good cars, the XR5T can be a little demon with a few mods.

I've owned both an LV XR5T and an FG XR6T and I loved both cars, but they are totdefinitelyfferent types of vehicles so it isn't really easy to make a direct comparison.

If you're more interested in a car that is going to put a smile on your face on a windy road then buy the XR5, if you want a car that is going to put a big smile on your face in a straight line then buy the XR6.

There are some issues you can experience with the Focus - probably the most common is front hub issues which bring an array of warning lights on (the wheel bearing moves in the front hub). Clutches can be a problem if the previous owner was a lazy driver and loaded up the vehicle in higher gears instead of downshifting - its actually the dual mass flywheel which finally causes the problem but the end result is clutch slip, this mainly happens on modded vehicles but can also happen to stockers.

The Falcon can be far from perfect at times from my experience both owning one but also having previously worked in dealer service departments. Diff bushes, diffs, oil leaks, power steering pumps, idler pullies, transmission heat exchangers. The interior and rest of the car is generally very good however.

Safety I would rate as on par, they both have a 5 star ANCAP rating and as a matter of fact the MK2 Focus (LS - LV) had one of the highest scores on the Euro NCAP at the time.

Maintenance costs can be higher in the XR5 and it is an absolute essential that a good quality fully synthetic oil of the correct grade is used. Falcon is definitely easier to work on.

Resale is definitely stronger in the Focus.

As I said above, it will really come down to what type of driving you like more - they are both special cars in their own ways and offer different types of thrills. I certainly loved both - I have a Focus ST now and love that more than both put together.

[deon_ysus]

So the general consensus is that both cars are both pretty modifiable, both have mechanical problems, while the XR5T is great for been zippy up in the hills while the Falcon is great for been zippy down long straights.
As I don't really go up onto the windy roads all that often, I think the Falcon is looking pretty good at the moment, readily available parts, more grunt and a super sleeper. I will have to replace the audio system though because that sounds terrible..

I've seen heaps of tutorials in upgrading the audio system in a Falcon, but has anyone upgraded or done any modifications to the stock sound system in a Focus? Can its alternator handle a big fat subby?

Originally Posted by WILDB

There are some issues you can experience with the Focus - probably the most common is front hub issues which bring an array of warning lights on (the wheel bearing moves in the front hub). Clutches can be a problem if the previous owner was a lazy driver and loaded up the vehicle in higher gears instead of downshifting - its actually the dual mass flywheel which finally causes the problem but the end result is clutch slip, this mainly happens on modded vehicles but can also happen to stockers.

So does this hub issue kick in a certain amount of km's, or is it something that may or may not happen? Is there any certain way to tell if the they previous owner has been driving lazily? Hopefully before the clutch starts too slip anyway..

[WILDB]

Originally Posted by deon_ysus

So does this hub issue kick in a certain amount of km's, or is it something that may or may not happen? Is there any certain way to tell if the they previous owner has been driving lazily? Hopefully before the clutch starts too slip anyway..

The hub issue is a random one, it could occur at any time or not at all. Unfortunately without knowing the previous owner there is no way of knowing the previous owners driving habits.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by WILDB

Safety I would rate as on par, they both have a 5 star ANCAP rating and as a matter of fact the MK2 Focus (LS - LV) had one of the highest scores on the Euro NCAP at the time.

The star ratings are class specific, so 5 stars in a small car is not going to be as safe as 5 stars for a large car. I have no doubt the Focus is a very safe car, but I also have no doubt that the Falcon is ultimately safer in severe accidents due to sheer size and weight.

[turbodewd]

Falcon gives u effortless power and superior NVH if you want it.

[Gadgetman]

Focus sounds awesome. Focus for me

[Dazz94]

What state do you live in? I was interested in buying an xr6t when I get off my p's but in qld it's banned till I'm 25 apparently or maybe I've misread

[deesun]

Originally Posted by Dazz94

What state do you live in? I was interested in buying an xr6t when I get off my p's but in qld it's banned till I'm 25 apparently or maybe I've misread

No I think what it means is if you get your P1/2 at the earliest age and hold them for the alloted time once you have completed the 3 years you then go to open/black license and can drive performance car. ie get P1 license at 17 can drive perf car at 20, 18=21 etc up to 25. If you dont get your P1 till 25 then you may drive a performance car straight up.

[Dazz94]

Originally Posted by deesun

No I think what it means is if you get your P1/2 at the earliest age and hold them for the alloted time once you have completed the 3 years you then go to open/black license and can drive performance car. ie get P1 license at 17 can drive perf car at 20, 18=21 etc up to 25. If you dont get your P1 till 25 then you may drive a performance car straight up.

Ohhhhh that clarifies everything then, cause I always thought it was a weird rule, like if your off your P's then how would anyone know, now it makes sense, now I'll deffo be getting an xr6t or a g6et

[Professor Farnsworth]

moving on

[bArNsY]

I was looking at the LV XR5 turbo fully optioned, decided on the G6ET for all the extra's and the straight line speed.

Stock the XR5's are running 14.4-15 1/4 mile, FG XR6T 12.7-13.5
With a tune, cooler and exhaust the XR5's are seeing sub 14sec passes (good driver)

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by bArNsY

I was looking at the LV XR5 turbo fully optioned, decided on the G6ET for all the extra's and the straight line speed.

Stock the XR5's are running 14.4-15 1/4 mile, FG XR6T 12.7-13.5
With a tune, cooler and exhaust the XR5's are seeing sub 14sec passes (good driver)

The XR5T isnt a 1/4 mile car so thats not really the way to compare the 2. Infact IMO you cannot compare the 2.


See try keeping up with an XR5T on a twisty mountain road in a 6T. Its unfair IMO.

The XR5T responds very well to mods (As does the 6T). Mods arent all that expensive for them either now that they have been around a while and some companies are still developing parts for them even though the ST is around.

My old XR5 was modded mildly tune, intake, catback, intake, RARB, inlet plenum etc and was a barrel of fun to drive, the tune transformed the car 180. Gas it up and hold on, it could have done with a proper diff though.

I only had 2 warranty issues, one was a failed Sony CD stacker and the other was due to my stupidity by breaking the bonnet latch pulling the grill out.
Even though it was making more the the factory flywheel figure at the wheels there was never a creak, rattle or the like.
Things i didnt like/issues
-They arent all that kind on tyres i had 3 sets on 60k.
-A/C is crap.
-turning circle is crap.
-they are poorly speced here in OZ (Sit in a new ST then you will notice)

Other than that i loved the car, it wasnt ready to be moved on but i fell in love with the ST.

Also you cannot IMO beat the exhaust note these things produce, mine had a 3 inch Milltek catback
http://youtu.be/MeXLHf9TXM4

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by DJM83

See try keeping up with an XR5T on a twisty mountain road in a 6T. Its unfair IMO.

That might be true for B series, but I think you underestimate how competent stock FGs are. A stock XR5T will not lose a stock XR6T on a windy road, I know this from experience. I've had extensive experience in an XR5 (LV) and I agree they are better setup from factory to have fun in the bends- largely because, being a smaller car, they feel faster without actually covering ground any quicker. If they were to be left 100% stock and winding roads were big on the agenda, I'd choose an XR5 every time for the fun factor. But that said, given equal drivers, there's no way it will beat an XR6T in sheer pace (unless the road was made up of endless consecutive hairpins). Despite having springs that I think are too soft for a 'sports' model, the extra roll doesn't make it misbehave like you'd expect- they hold the road very well even though it doesn't feel like you're going as fast. But more importantly, they have so much grunt it hides the shortcomings of the stock chassis setup- the small gain that is made by a smaller car in the tightest of corners is made up instantly as the XR6T slingshots out of the corner.

That said, I'm not the biggest fan of how they behave stock. The rear comes out unpredictably, they roll too much to attack with any kind of real confidence and the Dunlop tyres Ford puts on them are just terrible- but in terms of sheer pace they do impress if you have the balls to push one. I've done a lot of work to my XR6T's suspension, once tickled they are very potent. I've got so many videos from the natio of it going toe to toe with Evos and STis, they never get away (although they'd smash a stock one).

[WILDB]

Originally Posted by deon_ysus

Well I probably will own this vehicle for quite a few years, so I'd like spare parts to be easy to get / servicing and not cost and arm and a leg in 3 years time because they've discontinued the car. (Which they have in the case of the XR5t because they only make the 4cyl ST now right?).

Where as heaps of people have XR6 Falcons and they haven't changed the engine config heaps so I'm assuming there is gonna be heaps of parts in surplus for years to come for cheap cheap cheap. Would that be right?


I can see the benefit's of the Focus though as it's a lot more of a fun car to drive (sort of like my Sunday cruise toy really), which I am after ideally as my motorbike is my main transport method. I personally don't think I'm gonna need to break the local speed limit of 60/70 kmph to often throughout Perth for either vehicle though as I ain't too keen to lose my licence..

What I will be doing though is putting a good sound system in the car, amped up fronts, rears and a subby. I've helped a mate wire his BF xr6 falcon up with a new sound system which im guessing is similar to a FG XR6T, anyone got any idea how easy it is to do the same on a Focus? Also when I drove the Focus I didn't get a good look at the boot size, how does it compare to a Falcon's?

Parts won't be a problem at all, the 2.5T motor in the Focus has been in service for many years in Volvos and parts are very readily available.

You can easily install aftermarket head units and speakers into the Focus, boot space is ok, nowhere near as cavernous as the Falcon due to the high floor.

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

That might be true for B series, but I think you underestimate how competent stock FGs are. A stock XR5T will not lose a stock XR6T on a windy road, I know this from experience. I've had extensive experience in an XR5 (LV) and I agree they are better setup from factory to have fun in the bends- largely because, being a smaller car, they feel faster without actually covering ground any quicker.

Stock for stock there is absolutely no way that my FG XR6T would keep up with the nimbleness and chuckability of the Focus, the suspension was soft when pushed hard and the standard brakes pitiful. As a matter of fact all FG's I've ever driven in standard form have been the same by comparison, including FPV's, although to a lesser extent (albeit without the brake complaints).

With a well sorted suspension setup in the FG it was closer to the XR5, but still no comparison.

Throw a rear sway bar in the Focus and the handling improves significantly, let alone if you fit some good quality coils and/or shocks (I had Eibachs but with stock shocks).

This is all IMO of course, coming from a former owner of both an LV XR5T and FG XR6T.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by WILDB

Stock for stock there is absolutely no way that my FG XR6T would keep up with the nimbleness and chuckability of the Focus, the suspension was soft when pushed hard and the standard brakes pitiful. As a matter of fact all FG's I've ever driven in standard form have been the same by comparison, including FPV's, although to a lesser extent (albeit without the brake complaints).

With a well sorted suspension setup in the FG it was closer to the XR5, but still no comparison.

Throw a rear sway bar in the Focus and the handling improves significantly, let alone if you fit some good quality coils and/or shocks (I had Eibachs but with stock shocks).

This is all IMO of course, coming from a former owner of both an LV XR5T and FG XR6T.

I guess we'll agree to disagree, but like I mentioned in my post, I think it can be deceiving. Like all smaller cars, I absolutely think the LV felt quicker, but it in terms of sheer pace it just wasn't- it never quite feels like you're going ridiculously fast in a standard XR6T due to sheer size, but if you get them together in the mountains (Sydney's national park in my case) the Focus is definitely not quicker, in fact going 10/10ths the XR6T had the edge purely because of the grunt. Without having put them together I too would have thought the XR5 would have the edge through there, but it simply wasn't the case- it's deceiving.

To illustrate the point somewhat, at the hands of Warren Luff an FG XR6T is 3 seconds faster around Wakefield Park than he could manage in the XR5T, the F6 with better brakes was 4 seconds faster- that's a huge margin. Like you said the Focus is very chuckable but it just doesn't have the grunt to take advantage of it. The XR5 was also beaten by the Mazda3 MPS, Mini Cooper S, Astra VXR, Mazda RX8, 350Z, E46 M3 - none of which beat the FG.

[strik9]

Originally Posted by WILDB

With a well sorted suspension setup in the FG it was closer to the XR5, but still no comparison.

Throw a rear sway bar in the Focus and the handling improves significantly, let alone if you fit some good quality coils and/or shocks (I had Eibachs but with stock shocks).

This is all IMO of course, coming from a former owner of both an LV XR5T and FG XR6T.

you say stock for stock fg would,nt have a chance i,ll have to take your word for that, but modded for modded the focus would be toast.

i,ll put your bombed out xr5 against my bombed f6 any day any road.
this is all imo of course coming from a former owner of 10 fpv,s
anyway i,m just having a dig , its nice to see someone so passionate about a rice cracker

[Giant Cranium]

may sound a bit petty but i will not buy a car that has no cruise control. so no focus for me

[MITCHAY]

Seems to me that you don't need the practicality of a large car so an easy choice would be the XR5T in my opinion.

[OZYWALKER]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Seems to me that you don't need the practicality of a large car so an easy choice would be the XR5T in my opinion.

Or an XR6T Ute!

[deon_ysus]

Well I probably will own this vehicle for quite a few years, so I'd like spare parts to be easy to get / servicing and not cost and arm and a leg in 3 years time because they've discontinued the car. (Which they have in the case of the XR5t because they only make the 4cyl ST now right?).

Where as heaps of people have XR6 Falcons and they haven't changed the engine config heaps so I'm assuming there is gonna be heaps of parts in surplus for years to come for cheap cheap cheap. Would that be right?


I can see the benefit's of the Focus though as it's a lot more of a fun car to drive (sort of like my Sunday cruise toy really), which I am after ideally as my motorbike is my main transport method. I personally don't think I'm gonna need to break the local speed limit of 60/70 kmph to often throughout Perth for either vehicle though as I ain't too keen to lose my licence..

What I will be doing though is putting a good sound system in the car, amped up fronts, rears and a subby. I've helped a mate wire his BF xr6 falcon up with a new sound system which im guessing is similar to a FG XR6T, anyone got any idea how easy it is to do the same on a Focus? Also when I drove the Focus I didn't get a good look at the boot size, how does it compare to a Falcon's?

[LukeyST]

I was in the same position as you 6 months ago, was either getting an xr6t or an xr5t. I ended up getting an LV XR5 with leather interior and only 47,000kms on the clock for 22k ... and I love it!

Where I see each car having an advantage:
xr6t - straight line pace (obviously), RWD, towing ability (if wanted), long distance luxuries (cruise control etc), cheaper spares?
xr5 - better around corners, better brakes, interior with proper bucket seats, more refined driveline, oodles of mods available from UK, better on fuel, unique sound and a more unique car in general

Basically, you have to decide what you want out of it and go from there. I wanted something that was just more 'fun' to throw at a proper driving road and (in my opinion) the focus does a much better job than the falcon would.

But really, you can't go wrong either way.....

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by deon_ysus

what car would you recommend too get in terms of reliability / part availability / cost of fixing / modding / resale / overall safeness ?

A corolla.

But seriously both XR's would work, really boils down to what's more important to you, handling or straight line speed?

[sneaky]

i was half considering a xr5t before i bought a SSV commodore. the running costs/depreciation got the better of me with the commodore and i sold it after 12 months.

now i wish i had of got a 'cheaper' xr5t (under $20k vs nearly $30k commodore) and held onto it. cheaper fuel bills and less outlay to begin with.

but 'my' car will always be our second car, wife had 'family' car, so i don't need/want a big car for a second car.


good luck with the choise. test drive a few. at least you have 2 good cars to choose between

[deon_ysus]

I've driven both already, both look good and both go fast..
I think I'm gonna lean toward the Focus though, I'm not gonna be moving heaps of people or anything like that. Plus, Manual is always more fun then an auto, it takes all the excitement out of driving.

Anyway, I'll have a look around and see how much I can score either car for. If I can nab a cheap XR6T, then Ill get the XR6T, same for the XR5T

Cheers for your help everyone.

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by deon_ysus

Anyway, I'll have a look around and see how much I can score either car for. If I can nab a cheap XR6T, then Ill get the XR6T, same for the XR5T

Cheers for your help everyone.

Do you want a good car or a cheap car? Usually you don't get both. Best of luck with your purchase.

[deon_ysus]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

Do you want a good car or a cheap car? Usually you don't get both. Best of luck with your purchase.

True, maybe best bang for buck is a better way of phrasing it then instead of cheapest car.

Originally Posted by strik9

anyway the guy who started the thread wants a xr5t by the sounds. and he said in his post he was,nt interested in modding up the car.

No I like the XR5T (Not the biggest fan of hatchbacks tbh, but whatever) but in the long run it sound like the Falcon will be easier to look after, fix and mod. I'll be keeping the car for quite a long time (long as I don't wreck it) so I definitely will mod it over time, I haven't owned a car with the grunt both cars possess before so I'm not going to go and mod it too hell right away and make my learning experience even harder