Ford shutdown of manufacturing in Oz

**buggerlugs** · 26-06-2013, 06:29 PM

Long, but worth a read!

I've got an old mate who spent his working life with the Ford Motor Company, mainly as a computer programmer, and after the recent announcement of Ford closure in Australia, I asked what his feelings were.

Sorry? Yes - I feel I have been let down, but I am more sorry for Australia. The problem is not just Ford, it is the whole of Australian primary and secondary industry.

When I joined the industry in 1960 Australia had the following Automotive Manufacturers:-

Ford Australia - (Plants in Geelong, Ballarat, Broadmeadows, Sydney, and Brisbane).

Australian Motor Industries. - (Standard Motor Company and Mercedes Benz, Rambler, and Fiat tractors, - plants in Melbourne and Sydney)

British Motor Corporation - (Austin, Morris - Plants in Melbourne and Sydney)

Chrysler Australia- (Plants in Keswick, Mile End and Finsbury, Continental and General Distributors -(Peugot - plant in Heidelberg Melbourne) - bought out by Misubishi

Fiat - (tractor assembly at the Pressed Metal Corporation plant in Sydney)

General Motors Holden - ( Plants in Port Melbourne, Dandenong, Adelaide, and Sydney)

International Harvester- ( Plant in Geelong)

Leyland Motors - (Albion and Scammel , Plants in Melbourne and Sydney)

Renault (Australia) - (assembled by Clyde Industries, Victoria)

Rootes ( Australia) - (Plants at Port Melbourne and Dandenong)

Rover ( Australia) - ( Pressed Metal Corporation Sydney - most of the land rover was made and assembled in Oz)

Volkswagen (Australia) - (Plant in Clayton Victoria)

Willys Motors (Australia) - (Plant in Rocklea Brisbane)

White Trucks (Brisbane)

There was also another company assembling one of the early Japanese imports at Kangaroo Point.

Then of course there was our own Repco, a major automotive parts manufacturer and engine re-builderat that stage, and a company which was then more than capable of building the first all Australian car
These were not fly-by-nighters, some of them were in existence as early as 1914 - one hundred years ago !!

From that foundation the only one left is GMH, whose very existence as a manufacturing facility is hanging by a thread.

I have no idea what has happened to all the major parts and machine suppliers, Duly and Hansford, Bendix, Borg Warner, Pilkingtons Glass, Zenford, Small, A.C.I, McPhersons, and countless others, all appear to be dead.
Do you believe that all fourteen of those fifteen major companies were incapable? Shortly to be fifteen out of fifteen???????

We now have a relative newcomer, Toyota, with a plant in Altona, which will, in all possibility, be last man standing .

You think the Automotive industry is the only casualty? In the last few months Australia has also shut down the Shell refineries in Sydney and Geelong. Don't even worry about the long-dead fasteners, carpet, textile, shoe, clothing etc. industries - they are as numerous as prayer notes in the Wailing Wall.

It's time to ask the hard question, - is something wrong with Australia?
When I left Ford, in round figures it employed 5,000 at the Geelong site, 6,000 at the Broadmeadows site, 700 in the Sydney plant, and 300 in the Brisbane plant - 12,000 people. That is only the start. Then there are all the outside contractors directly dependent on the Company, we used to estimate this conservatively as about another 33% - 4,000. A straight 16,000 total. Then there is on top of that all the people who serviced those 16,000 - I have no idea how you calculate that, and it is a bit nebulous anyway as the 16,000 are still there, just at a lower level of economic importance.

It is blatantly obvious that our political system just does not work - I have been voicing this for the last thirty odd years. I have no idea what it should be changed to, the basis is sound, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. The political intelligence of the bulk of the Australian voting public is heading to absolute zero, and our politicians depend directly on that.

We continue to elect governments time after time on the basis of platforms of promises to be broken. Promises bordering on lies and deceit. We elect governments that have financial abilities that would make Bart Simpson appear genius material. Just take a quick look at Singapore - about 10% of our population, no natural resources, just about no industry, and yet they have a large network of underground trains running every three minutes everywhere - just on a scale basis alone we should have about ten such systems here in Oz - well at least one in all the capital cities - that leaves the cost of four of them to throw in a decent road system between the capitals. As soon as someone hears that they pop up with "yes ! but look at their social welfare system !" my answer - exactly - look at it, almost non-existent from the government, the family is the social security system. I have seen our system, which is great in principle, abused right left and centre by those it is meant to protect, what should be a safety net is fast becoming an albatross around our necks. Come hell or high water that system has to be returned to the safety net it was intended to be. I don't know about now, but in Germany it was exactly a safety net and nothing else - if you were out of work you received a percentage of your wage for a period of time ( three months? I forget exactly), and then it took a dive to an "emergency payment" which bought food and not much else.

All the government sponsored gifts for new houses, births, carbon tax offsets, GFC handouts etc. are not gifts - they are the currency with which our politicians appear best familiar, in plain English, bribes - bribes for the next election. Time to cut that nonsense - it should never have started.

What is happening in Australia is the failure to recognise the concept of adding value. Build something - make something - repair something - create something - move something - sell something useful - all add value and this is the only thing that creates a healthy economic structure. Add to that the essential services and you are still in business. Replace that lot with fancy accountants, counsellors, psychologists, dole bludgers, excessive bureaucrats, excessive government, teachers who only put in a fraction of the hours of real workers, and a myriad other similar other sinecure type jobs and you land right in the proverbial can, just like Oz.

Have you ever thought what happens in the next war? You think there won't be one? There have been humans fighting humans ever since one stuck his stone axe in somebody else's skull. You think that is going to miraculously stop? Go talk to the fairies. What do you think wins wars? Certainly not bureaucrats, counsellors and psychologists - not even servicemen alone. It is pure manufacturing muscle - whoever can build the most missiles, aircraft, bombs, guns etc. and have servicemen to deliver the intended result to the enemy. That is what wins wars. What are we going to build them with now? Do we now let our servicemen down as well?

Have a look back at what Ford Oz built for the last major war. Ford turned out thousands of those huge army transporters, hundreds of those huge landing barges, tracked bren-gun carriers, Ford blitzes, Bofors guns, and no doubt other things that I have either forgotten or never heard of. The Chrysler plant in Adelaide contributed a similar effort, largely in the aircraft sector. Who is going to repeat those efforts? Our recent engineering workforce had the ability to tool up a plant like Fords and make virtually anything at the drop of a hat. We made all sorts of odd things that nobody knows about - bits for the aircraft industry, tooling for carbon fibre parts for the French airbus, tooling for those huge Boeing tail spars, blocks for Scalzo engines, right down to microscopic gears for eye surgery instruments. We completed huge tooling contracts for our 'opposition' in the automotive industry. How wrong we were - the real opposition were those WE put in charge of our own country.

Then there are the unseen things - such as the flow of information and skills from the private sector to the Australian Government excuse for an armaments factory. Probably all but dead by now, but when I was active I attended many meetings at the armaments factory, Monash University, and other venues where engineers from private industry passed on manufacturing engineering related information. Much of it gleaned from first hand international experience, and much of it our own experience.

So that is just a small shot at how our politicians have betrayed us and set Oz up for a right royal shafting. A real enemy could not have done the job better.

You bet your sweet **** I'm sorry.

P. S. I don't care who you pass this on to - I will probably get an earful from someone who hasn't had his/her feet on the ground for 99% of his/her next to useless existence, but I can handle that.

mik · 26-06-2013, 06:58 PM

nice post buggerlugs and totally agree with your mate, we should be aiming to be more self sufficient not bloody less, and this is the path respective half , wit politicians have led us down, our pollies should be tried for treason, they have rooted this country.

XRtowcar · 26-06-2013, 07:27 PM

60's had massive industry protection.
Your $35,000 Falcon would probably cost $50,000 without the competition to drive down prices.
Double edged sword.
Keep industry here with industry protection, but be prepared to pay higher prices because of labour and material costs compared to overseas.
Everyone wants to pay the least they can, and I'm no different, but we are seeing the effects of what is now a global market for everything.

westy73 · 01-07-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRtowcar

60's had massive industry protection.
Your $35,000 Falcon would probably cost $50,000 without the competition to drive down prices.
Double edged sword.
Keep industry here with industry protection, but be prepared to pay higher prices because of labour and material costs compared to overseas.
Everyone wants to pay the least they can, and I'm no different, but we are seeing the effects of what is now a global market for everything.

It's a fantasy world you live. Look how well we are doing being globalised. NEarly all manufacturing has left our shores. You are happy about it ?
Obviously not Australian because we don't have to be sheep. Other countries stand up for their protectionism and so should we. We have so much weatlh in resources and people smarts yet we don't seem smart enough to see the erosion of this country to nothing but a people and import dumping ground.

If I have to pay more for having Australian made so what. At least our industries will thrive unlike what's happening now. This is exactly the attitude that has killed off farming as well. Oh well just import because I want cheap bananas or whatever. F@k that. I would rather pay for Australian bananas and shove your imported bananas right up your A#$!. That goes for all other imports where we can manufacture them just fine right here !! Just need some politicians with some balls and some courage to actually do something right for US ! Stuff globalism and the other countries we deserve to be actually prospering and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Rant Rant Rant......deep breath now taken.

Rodge · 26-06-2013, 07:43 PM

That Sir is THE BEST post I've ever read on here. Thanks heaps for sharing that Buggerlugs.

last fairlane · 26-06-2013, 08:23 PM

Buggerlugs
we must be about the same age and Im hearing what you are saying
like whats going to happen to those sixteen thousand people who work in the supply industry when Ford stop GMH will be next and then Toyota will follow
just a short true story about suppliers not just the small factories but also the delivery guys as well
back in 1988 I had a tray truck delivering parts to Ford and Nissan
dashboards went from the Tupperware factory to Ford for the Falcons
seats went from the small Bridgestone factory to Nissan
well Nissan shut down and I lost half of my income my work just stopped
so I sold the truck and got a job
multiply that by god knows how many if the big boys leave town
its a sad situation and I dont think it will get any better
sorry to say
John

NX74205 · 26-06-2013, 08:31 PM

A well written post instead of the Ford bashing, "I'll never buy another Ford" attitude that some people seem to spout on here.

Great post.

Whitey-AMG · 26-06-2013, 08:53 PM

We are not a trade hub - we are geographically isolated - we have a very small population - many of the big companies mentioned have international HQ with global priorities and pressures of global efficiencies that transcend local govt policies. We have an increasingly diverse population that isn't patriotic or have its roots in local history. We have an increasing swinging vote populous and an increasingly dysfunctional govt system......lol........Kevin Rudd new PM while I'm writing this. Case in point.

There are new Free Trade agreements and increasingly interrelated economies and economies of scale. Australia has seen an increased level of investment from international companies. These companies lobby the govt for concessions for related investments etc..... The complexities and reasons for where our money goes is endless.

So whilst agree with the sentiment and agree with the anger.....I also understand in part why some things happen. I don't agree or condone....never will....but I can see why they happen.

Like one of my fave Metallica songs....... Sad but True

CoupeKing · 26-06-2013, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

We are not a trade hub - we are geographically isolated - we have a very small population -

^ This, and it`s not the 60`s anymore.

mik · 27-06-2013, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

^ This, and it`s not the 60`s anymore.

more the pity.

Crazy Dazz · 26-06-2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

A well written post instead of the Ford bashing, "I'll never buy another Ford" attitude that some people seem to spout on here.

It’s NOT “Ford Bashing.”
I LOVE the Falcon & the Territory, I would happily have gone on driving them until I die, and hopefully I still will. Since Ford will nolonger make them, “I’ll never buy another one.”
I have bought other Fords because of my loyalty to the Falcon, with that gone, why WOULD I buy another one?

Do you know WHY 3rd world countries are so keen to get automotive manufacturing???
It’s NOT because they want cars, nor just because they want the jobs.
It’s because it is perceived as driving innovation and development. Their demand for parts drives investment and development in associated areas, and on the whole raises the ability of the manufacturing sector. These industries require engineers, so they drive educational development.

Whereas Australia is going BACKWARDS. In the 60s & 70’s Australian Universities were at the forefront of the evolution of Electronic Engineering, sadly that has almost completely passed us by. We don’t make squat in this country.

How long do you seriously think Ford will maintain its research and development teams here/

For some reason we are all CONNED into this belief that Australia cannot and should not compete in many of these industries, as though this is some universally decreed truism.

The underlying simple truth is that we have political parties that are focussed solely on the next election. Politicians who dare to roll out “grand plans” for the future are ridiculed.
We have a liberal party who doesn’t care about manufacturing workers because those workers are too entrenched in voting for Labor,
Whilst we have a labor party that takes them for granted and is more interested in pursuing the green, migrant, & gay votes.

mcnews · 26-06-2013, 08:40 PM

And of course poofs, migrants and greenies have no right to be heard or interests catered too ...? I bet a lot of gays, migrants and greenies work at Ford :-)

**Raptor** · 26-06-2013, 09:02 PM

It's a global economy today. Our politicians can't control that. Manufacturing has simple moved to lower cost nations so we can all get more for less. That's how the world works. Australia's role will be ( is?) to produce food and dig up minerals for other nations to consume. Like it or not that's the way it is.

Whinge and complain if you like but I consider myself bloody lucky to have been born here, these are first world problems.

mcnews · 26-06-2013, 09:14 PM

Absolutely. Only the most insular and idiotic would consider Aussies are hard done by. Oh woe is me while the government pays for Mrs to have a baby, then everyone else pays for the hospital and medical costs through the kids life, everyone else pats to educate the kid too, and more kids you spit out the more tax breaks you get and more of a free ride you get along the way... Oh but that's right the married hetero Aussie male is the most hard done by human on the planet :-)

That said as people took the original post down their own agenda pathways.... The original post is something I predominantly agree with on almost all points.

Shonky. · 26-06-2013, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

It's a global economy today. Our politicians can't control that. Manufacturing has simple moved to lower cost nations so we can all get more for less. That's how the world works. Australia's role will be ( is?) to produce food and dig up minerals for other nations to consume. Like it or not that's the way it is.

Whinge and complain if you like but I consider myself bloody lucky to have been born here, these are first world problems.

We must fight against globalisation though. The benefits of having a diverse capable workforce outweigh the increased cost of manufactured secondary goods. We don't want to just dig holes and import. Even if it costs us we must keep manufacturing, we must keep producing. We don't shut down a local TAFE or university cause it is unprofitable, similarly we must support manufacturing.

We are very lucky to be born here.

Wretched · 26-06-2013, 09:35 PM

We are a nation of smart people, we have engineers, scientists, doctors, etc that are world renowned (just look at the work CSIRO does, i.e. WIFI) yet why can we not succeed in establishing an industry here to reap the benefits of this R&D?

Here is where the governments of all levels are to blame (and have been for many years). They would rather invest in quick votes from the lowest common denominator in society through the means of welfare rather than invest in innovation, in science, in higher education and research, etc. Where is the assistance for businesses invest in this country, where is the assistance for those who want to take that risk and get their idea out to market in AU and not overseas? No of course they would rather increase taxes and suffocate business in red tape forcing them offshore.

I found this website a good read and pretty much describes what I have in more detail
http://anthillonline.com/the-treatme...tion-overseas/

**janddbone** · 26-06-2013, 09:45 PM

Truth bloody hurts!

davenl5l · 27-06-2013, 07:49 AM

buggerlugs mate for pm

vztrt · 27-06-2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:

We elect governments that have financial abilities that would make Bart Simpson appear genius material. Just take a quick look at Singapore - about 10% of our population, no natural resources, just about no industry

25% of their GDP is in manufacturing.
........
I agree more with the handout part of this story/post. Australia seem to becoming a country who expect a handout every two minutes. All that could go back into something more useful for all the country and not a few who seem to feel that they're owed something.

Australia has low unemployment, low debt , better quality of life then most of the world yet we act as if were in the US/Europe's situation. People think they have it tough in this country but they have no f##n idea.

We as a country have work to do to save what we have of our manufacturing industry. The more different sectors of the economy we have the more robust our economy is. Mining will no longer bring the money in like it did for the last 12 years. We need to find the next 'mining boom' while keeping what we have to keep things rolling on.

bobthebilda · 27-06-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Long, but worth a read!

. Just take a quick look at Singapore - about 10% of our population, no natural resources, just about no industry, and yet they have a large network of underground trains running every three minutes everywhere - just on a scale basis alone we should have about ten such systems here in Oz -.

You are comparing Apples to concrete blocks. Singapore has a population of nearly 5.5 million (25% of Australian population), and they live on a land size of approx. 700 square kilometres (put in simple terms, that would be 35 kilometres long by 20 kilomtres wide). Simply put, if each singaporean was given the same amount of land, they would each get 12 metres x 12 metres to live on. Singapore is not a sustainable population (or economy). And despite having a population 1/4 of that of Australia, it has a GDP that is in fact 1/5 of that of Australia. With such a large tax base, and such a small area to spread it over, singapore should have skyscrapers to the moon, not just underground railways but underground cities.

You also neglected to mention that Australia still has a few truck manufacturers still operating as well as other numerous manufacturing businesses that just get on with it day to day, without highlighting their own management incompetence by running to the Government for handouts everytime they make a bad business decision (and thery do it harder because the government uses their taxpayer dollars to subsidise the poorly run ones).

Whitey-AMG · 27-06-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You are comparing Apples to concrete blocks. Singapore has a population of nearly 5.5 million (25% of Australian population), and they live on a land size of approx. 700 square kilometres (put in simple terms, that would be 35 kilometres long by 20 kilomtres wide). Simply put, if each singaporean was given the same amount of land, they would each get 12 metres x 12 metres to live on. Singapore is not a sustainable population (or economy). And despite having a population 1/4 of that of Australia, it has a GDP that is in fact 1/5 of that of Australia. With such a large tax base, and such a small area to spread it over, singapore should have skyscrapers to the moon, not just underground railways but underground cities.

You also neglected to mention that Australia still has a few truck manufacturers still operating as well as other numerous manufacturing businesses that just get on with it day to day, without highlighting their own management incompetence by running to the Government for handouts everytime they make a bad business decision (and thery do it harder because the government uses their taxpayer dollars to subsidise the poorly run ones).

You are neglecting the fact that Singapore is fast becoming / become a REGIONAL HUB for R&D for all sorts of Industries. Many High Tech Industries are strategically positioning themselves in SG for R&D and Distribution throughout the APAC region. Their ecclectix mix of European and Asian culture makes them a formidable centre of business excellence. They are also geographically positioned as a TRADE HUB........have you ever been to SG to see that number of Ships that transit through ?? Singaporean companies also have a very good track record of heavily investing in other countries. Like it or lump it - Australia is part of APAC - our future investors are in the ASIA PAC region.......the work ethic of our fellow asian neighbours is in stark contrast to our own perceptions of what we "deserve".

We best learn how to say "YES PLEASE" in many asian dialects......As others have said - we are no longer an isolated economy that prides ourselves on making VICTA mowers and HILLS Hoists. We are living in a world of virtual economies with virtual transactions.....fast and frequent changes. It may very well be that Australia can become the Agricultural capital of the Asian Region.......plenty of fertile land up North...no need to single out minerals out of the ground as our only export....

I6DOHC · 27-06-2013, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

It may very well be that Australia can become the Agricultural capital of the Asian Region.......plenty of fertile land up North...no need to single out minerals out of the ground as our only export....

Agree in principle, but how on earth it could it happen. I am (or was) a third generation farmer but now have had to find other jobs because farming in this country is not viable.

There are great chunks of that fertile land being sold off overseas (Cubby + many others), the ongoing existence of those handy FTA's, the ongoing decisions of politicians & bureaucrats in reducing our border protections to allow more diseased produce into the country (which will have the delightful benefit of crippling and/or wiping out our crops), cheap imports of overseas produce etc etc. It all seems like a familiar theme.

In my opinion it is just not probable that there is some other industry that will magically take up the slack of the manufacturing industry once it's dead and buried....as generally everything is going the same way.

The few constants we have are the ignorant masses & politicians continually selling us out. (Agree with someone else's comments earlier..the pollies should be held for treason...starting with Whitlam). There is only one solution, and that is not to vote in the same people doing the same thing anymore. That is the definition of insanity...and that is Australia.

Rome is burning yet everyone seems to have slipped on their Hush-Puppies and are now sipping their cognac's while watching reality programs on their iTV's. Good luck to the next generations. They will forever be burdened by our legacy.

NB - Kudos to the original poster...agree with their sentiments 100%

GQ_Smooth · 27-06-2013, 10:02 AM

Things change over time, the British empire was the dominant economic force globally, no longer, Eastern Europe and China were closed communist economies, no longer. Japan was a low cost labor force, no longer. Southeast Asia was riddled with 3rd world countries fighting with each other over ideology, no longer. The WORLD use to go to war every 10-20 years, no longer.

Expecting things to remain the same, makes as much sense as signing one sided trade agreements.

GQ_Smooth · 27-06-2013, 12:34 PM

Singapore is not a democratic country in the same manner Australia, UK, USA etc.. their government doesn't need to make policy to keep the masses happy, to grab votes. They have the ability to plan long term. Good or bad decisions are made and followed through on.

Having lived and worked their for a number of years (even got married there), there is nothing wrong with our work ethic compared to theirs. We are more efficient than them and move clever from my experience, we just work less hours for more pay and pay substantially more tax on our income. We also have the ability to complain more!

JG66ME · 27-06-2013, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Long, but worth a read!

"GOOD STUFF IN OP"

P. S. I don't care who you pass this on to - I will probably get an earful from someone who hasn't had his/her feet on the ground for 99% of his/her next to useless existence, but I can handle that.

Good stuff. Also as an addition, look at the range that Ford in particular manufactured and or sold in 1972 compared to today.

Ford Escort Sedan, Wagon and Van. UK source CKD
Ford Capri 1600 and 3000 Coupe. UK source CKD
Ford Cortina 4 Cyl Sedan and Wagon. UK source some local manufacture
Ford Cortina 6 Cylinder Sedan, Wagon, Aus redesign of UK local manufacture
Ford Falcon and Fairmont Sedan, Wagon, Coupe, Utility and Van. Local design and manufacture
Ford Fairlane. Local design and manufacture
Ford LTD and Landau. Local design and manufacture
Ford Transit Vans, redesign of UK, local manufacture
Ford F100, F250, F350, F500, F600, F700 and F750 trucks USA CKD
Ford K600 and K700 trucks UK CKD
Ford D200, D300, D400, D500, D600, D750, D800, D850 and D1000 trucks, UK CKD
Ford R Series buses, two wheelbases, UK CKD, Local body manufacture.
Ford 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 and 7000 tractors, UK import and local content
Ford 8000 and 9000 tractors US import and local content
Ford County Super 4 and Super Six Tractors, UK import
Ford Blue Line. Large range of locally manufactured farm implements.

This is a huge portfolio of products compared with what is on offer by FoA today.

Steve

joolz · 27-06-2013, 07:25 PM

That was a truly amazing post and hit the nail right on the head. Your mate should run in politics but maybe hes just to honest and shocking for the average voter that needs all the cotton wool in the world to survive.

Buntz · 27-06-2013, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

It is blatantly obvious that our political system just does not work - I have been voicing this for the last thirty odd years. I have no idea what it should be changed to, the basis is sound, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. The political intelligence of the bulk of the Australian voting public is heading to absolute zero, and our politicians depend directly on that.

We're being Americanized. You can see the level of cognitive material dropping in the Television we get. Television was always a great way to get information on what's happening in the world. Now you're better off jumping on the net and doing Research.

And yes, the population is mostly ignorant about the government, likely from apathy. Choice A and choice B are both wrong, but it's compulsory to choose one, and fighting the system is just too hard, too much red bureaucratic tape. Everyone knows if you get into Politics wanting to do the right thing, you get dragged down and beaten up by the corruption, and become just the same as the last guy. So just let what will happen to happen. Well, my view anyway.

HEMI POWER · 27-06-2013, 08:46 PM

Buggerlugs you and your mate are spot on. How the hell have we let this happen is another mystery we tend to endeavour in the so called lucky country.Don't get me wrong I love this country but I really can't see myself here in the next 5-7 years.Ive already started the move from now.

Nova 8 · 28-06-2013, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

It is blatantly obvious that our political system just does not work - I have been voicing this for the last thirty odd years. I have no idea what it should be changed to, the basis is sound, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired. The political intelligence of the bulk of the Australian voting public is heading to absolute zero, and our politicians depend directly on that.

We continue to elect governments time after time on the basis of platforms of promises to be broken. Promises bordering on lies and deceit. We elect governments that have financial abilities that would make Bart Simpson appear genius material. Just take a quick look at Singapore - about 10% of our population, no natural resources, just about no industry, and yet they have a large network of underground trains running every three minutes everywhere - just on a scale basis alone we should have about ten such systems here in Oz - well at least one in all the capital cities - that leaves the cost of four of them to throw in a decent road system between the capitals.

While I agree with most of what was said this is totally wrong, infrastructure doesn't come from population, it comes from population density. Comparing Australia to Singapore based purely on population is ridiculous, Singapore is 710 km² while Australia is 7,692,024 km². It costs a lot more to build a road to span Australia then it does to span Singapore and we simply do not have the population to have the best system in the world.

Singapore is one of the highest populated places in the world while Australia has one of the lowest. Tasmania alone is 68,401 km² so if we all moved there our population density is still smaller than that of Singapore. Also Singapore's population is Over 5.3 million with a population density of 7,315/km² (2012) to Australia's 22.7 million with a population density of >3/km²(2012). That puts Singapore's population at around 25% of Australia's.

It sucks that Australia is becoming a consumer nation like many other developed countries around the world. But that's the price we pay to live in the style we do, but its always easier to stand back and bloat on about how the job is being done poorly rather than to step up and do something about it (run for local government for example). We have the land and resources to be fairly self-sufficient but we aren't so the choice is either live without luxury (how many of us have only a single tv or car?) and without room or continue on as we are and enjoy your 1st world issues and our ROOM.

Cuyper · 28-06-2013, 01:33 AM

The problem is if you don't use it you lose it. There are not enough people in Australia with the skills left to make anything and without those skilled people no one new will ever learn. With a setup like that you can never ever catch up to Germany, it's become a waste of time even trying. Not only that, all the machines are in China. We will subsist on mining money for a while and then we are done and when we are done it'll be much worse than Europe because Europe still know how to make things

.

Everyday old Engineers with a clue die, no one replaces them.