Unions urge Toyota workers to reject reforms

[BroadyFord]

Un. Believable.

Absolute IDIOTS!

Unions urge Toyota workers to reject reforms as industry fights for survival

http://www.theguardian.com/global/20...s-for-survival

Car industry unions have called for Toyota Australia workers to reject a package of workplace changes that the company’s management says is crucial to winning approval to make a new model Camry in Melbourne and for continued exports to the Middle East.

Toyota’s 2,500 assembly workers are due to vote on Friday on the package of measures designed to boost productivity and cut costs. Opposition from the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union's leadership and shop stewards will make it much harder to win approval.

The union stance is revealed in a notice sent to members, which says the AMWU's vehicle division does not support changes detailed in a management explanatory memorandum on 4 December.

The national secretary of the vehicle division, Dave Smith, said on Monday that the union leadership believed the package was "purely about the company attacking unions and their workers", rather than improving productivity and efficiency, or cutting costs.

Smith said he had told several Toyota Australian directors the union was prepared to discuss "ways we can support" the company. "But that has to be a discussion where the parties see each other as equals,” he said. "It gets back to the relationship issue with Toyota and how we can improve the relationship."

The car maker says that it needs to cut the cost of each locally produced car by $3,800 in coming years to compete with Toyota plants in other countries,

On Monday, a Toyota spokeswoman repeated the company's argument that "urgent changes" were needed if the car maker was to remain at the negotiating table for future investments.

"We are doing everything that we can to secure the future for our employees and their families. The changes are designed to remove outdated and uncompetitive work practices and allowances that make it difficult for us to compete with other Toyota plants."

Toyota Australia's relations with car unions have been strained in recent years over forced job cuts and public criticism of work practices and attitudes by its president, Max Yasuda. Car unions wanted the company to negotiate any changes with a big group of shop stewards and delegates. But Toyota has insisted that it would only with a smaller group and has tried communicating directly with individual workers.

From the union side, the decision to formally oppose the management package risks sending a negative signal about the Australian operations to the Japanese parent company, Toyota Motor Corporation. It comes as the broader Australian car industry is fighting for its survival beyond 2016, when Ford will cease manufacturing locally.

A small group of Toyota shop stewards and employees has taken federal court action in an attempt to stop the vote proceedings, in a move which has not yet been officially supported by the union. The judgment is due be handed down before the scheduled vote by Toyota employees on Friday.

The jockeying at Toyota comes as the Abbott government is under intense pressure over whether it will offer further industry assistance to keep GM Holden's Adelaide assembly plant open beyond 2016. The ABC has quoted unnamed senior government ministers as saying a decision has already been made to shut Holden, but the industry minister, Ian Macfarlane, has said the company has assured him that no decision has been made.

Labor’s former industry minister Kim Carr has argued that Holden was willing to accept an ALP proposal which was considered in June and July this year and involved the car industry receiving $300m in taxpayer funding per year for a decade after 2015. Holden would have received about half of that sum, some $150m a year.

ACTU secretary Dave Oliver is seeking an urgent meeting with Tony Abbott about Holden. The South Australian premier, Jay Weatherill, hopes to meet the prime minister on Thursday, when Abbott returns from attending the memorial service in South Africa for Nelson Mandela.

The Wall Street Journal has reported that the US parent of Holden, General Motors, intends to close two Holden plants in Australia. The car maker has its assembly plant in Adelaide, along with an engine plant and corporate headquarters in Melbourne, which employs a total of about 3,660 workers.

The WSJ said that GM would separately slash production in South Korea by as much as 20% by 2016, although part of the South Korea output would be used to feed the Australian market. The measures are in addition a decision last week decision to end Chevrolet sales in Europe in two years.

[Nikked]

Not real sure what to think of these unions...

[gtfpv]

here we go again . a bunch of managers telling employees . they can and will use cheaper labour overseas to compete and seek more profits for shareholders etc .
tell me something new .
corperates chasing profit and nothing else , and blaming its workers crying poor .
these
threads always start with the title " union " , and finish with a thread lock
and indians / koreans and thias / building out cars , corperates and shareholders making more money than before and more austrailans out of work .
PRETTY MUCH WRAPS IT ALL UP .

WAITS FOR THE USUAL SUSPECTS TO SELL US OUT AND AGREE WITH THE CORPS . LOL .

OH , AND BY THE WAY . TROLLS BAG ALL YOU LIKE . NO MO.RE POSTS FROM ME IN THIS THREAD . AND NO I HAVENT READ THE THREAD . I DONT NEED TO . IVE READ HUNDREDS THE SAME .

[pottery beige]

unions are a bunch of muppets

[stazza]

Umm didn't Holden do the exact same thing and look where they are now. Holden promised they'd make another model in 2017 or whatever if the workers signed the new agreement. Now they will be shafted. I think regardless of the pay cuts or not, Holden would still close their doors not long after Ford.

I wouldn't fall for their bullshit that taking a pay cut will provide a more stable longterm job.

The unions know whats up, but the usual suspects on here are yes men and would get shafted at the drop of a hat because they think the company wants to look after then.

Know this - no company gives a **** about you. Each and every one of you are expendable.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by stazza

Umm didn't Holden do the exact same thing and look where they are now. Holden promised they'd make another model in 2017 or whatever if the workers signed the new agreement. Now they will be shafted. I think regardless of the pay cuts or not, Holden would still close their doors not long after Ford.

I wouldn't fall for their bullshit that taking a pay cut will provide a more stable longterm job.

The unions know whats up, but the usual suspects on here are yes men and would get shafted at the drop of a hat because they think the company wants to look after then.

Know this - no company gives a **** about you. Each and every one of you are expendable.

Yes the only thing pay cuts will do is improve the bottom line until they ultimately pull the pin. Labour cost reductions are only a part of the "problem". It doesn't take a genius to figure out that pay cuts don't equal job security - just a smaller pay packet and the same risk of being canned.

You work hard, negotiate pay rises over the years and then someone comes along and wants to rip out all those gains from probably the last couple of EBAs and wonder why the workers tell them to go jump.

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

unions are a bunch of muppets

The muppets was one of Australia.s favourite shows.

On a serious note.
Its not unions that's the problem because the government has removed all there power anyway.
The problem is The Gina rineharts ( richest women in the world)
who wants to use 457 immigrants to build there ROY HILL iron ore mine.
The current government who has just increased the foreign import to 300,000 a year.
The 457 and 456 visa immigrants who then take the money out of the country
And the stupid Aussie who hasn't got the balls anymore to go on strike
to rally and protest.
ITS VERY SIMPLE......IF SOMEONE IS HANGING CRAP ON YOU YOU SMASH THEM . IF YOU DONT THEY KEEP HANGING **** ON YOU

[stazza]

All these scabs would prefer a 457 to take their jobs just to get back at the union scum.

I've worked with 457s, nice people but they don't spend a single dime in this country. Every dollar is sent back to their family. Fair enough they want to support their family, but a big **** you to the companies that get these guys in and give away our money so they can sell off our resources to get rich.

I remember going for my crane ticket ages ago, there was a 457 that got sent from my work too, he couldn't even READ the written test and had no hope in hell of operating a crane in a safe manner. He is now operating a crane at that busted *** company and about 15 of us Aussies got the *** a while later. We had no union support there and we got shafted. I know this first hand, I'm not just saying "Yeah! UNIONS! MONEY!!". I've been replaced by cheap labour that had no skill.

SKILLED LABOUR ISN'T CHEAP AND CHEAP LABOUR ISN'T SKILLED.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by stazza

SKILLED LABOUR ISN'T CHEAP AND CHEAP LABOUR ISN'T SKILLED.

Simple words of genius and 100% spot on. Hope you found better in the end.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by stazza

SKILLED LABOUR ISN'T CHEAP AND CHEAP LABOUR ISN'T SKILLED.

Process work isn't exactly skilled.

I think its symptomatic of the Aus blue collar workforce in general. There's a view that ANY form of training, no matter how short, makes someone skilled and therefore worthy of top dollar.

Skilled equals months/years of training.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

The muppets was one of Australia.s favourite shows.

On a serious note.
Its not unions that's the problem because the government has removed all there power anyway.
The problem is The Gina rineharts ( richest women in the world)
who wants to use 457 immigrants to build there ROY HILL iron ore mine.
The current government who has just increased the foreign import to 300,000 a year.
The 457 and 456 visa immigrants who then take the money out of the country
And the stupid Aussie who hasn't got the balls anymore to go on strike
to rally and protest.
ITS VERY SIMPLE......IF SOMEONE IS HANGING CRAP ON YOU YOU SMASH THEM . IF YOU DONT THEY KEEP HANGING **** ON YOU

How do they do this?

[MercurySilver]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

unions are a bunch of muppets

some are some arent

our company just tried to screw its wage earners to the wall
just taking ***** left right and centre (they had 42 claims as a company they wanted to take/change)

or course the salary employees lost nothing and got a higher % in pay rise offered to them

we stood fat as a union
and got what we wanted

not all unions and union members are muppets

[GASWAGON]

It really depends on what Toyota wants to change?

If its a $3-5 per hour pay cut then its sort of not on..... Some of the employers may be quite high in debt thanks to Australia high priced RE market and cannot afford a paycut?

Electricty prices through the roof also driving up company running costs.....

It just does'nt work in Oz anymore everything SOOO bloody expensive!

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by EF_6

It really depends on what Toyota wants to change?

Profits, no profits equals no jobs. Highly unlikely you run your business without making a profit.

Originally Posted by EF_6

If its a $3-5 per hour pay cut then its sort of not on..... Some of the employers may be quite high in debt thanks to Australia high priced RE market and cannot afford a paycut?

Bingo! We have the winner right there...Employees making their living beyond their means the employers problem...

[stevz]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Bingo! We have the winner right there...Employees making their living beyond their means the employers problem...

It wasn't so long ago that car makers were making significant profits, people could afford housing and could live relatively comfortably.
Fast forward 10 years or so, the cost of living is out of control, we have a property bubble and businesses are struggling to be viable.... These are all signs of an unsustainable economy which is at breaking point. It's like watching a train crash in slow motion.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by stevz

It wasn't so long ago that car makers were making significant profits, people could afford housing and could live relatively comfortably.
Fast forward 10 years or so, the cost of living is out of control, we have a property bubble and businesses are struggling to be viable.... These are all signs of an unsustainable economy which is at breaking point. It's like watching a train crash in slow motion.

BINGO again!......My bingo is better than yours BadMax!

Honestly i have been taking note of business's around Melbourne and ther are ALOT closed......In Greensborough the other day they spent big bucks doing up the main shopping street strip this year .....

At least for or five shop premisis totally closed within a 500metre strip!

[GQ_Smooth]

Without knowing what the offer is, all we have is uneducated opinions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wretched]

Even with the threat of total closure there is just no compromising.
You reap what you sow.

[BroadyFord]

I've been reliably informed that even if Holden closes, Toyota will have a "red hot go" at continuing to manufacture. This certainly undermines that.

[GASWAGON]

And dont forget Qantas are putting 1000 off next year also and are something like 300 Mill in debt!

[UberKnee]

Ridiculous. These unions continually do the same thing, protecting themselves right now and refusing any give and thus dooming the industry later. Whats the point in protecting your entitlements now if as a result you don't have a job in a couple of years? They need to wake up and realise this big foreign owned corporations and many local owned outfits just cant turn a profit with everything so expensive here.

Huge reform, that is basically impossible needs to happen. People can scream trade embargos all they want and going all redneck and keeping out the evil foreigners but Australia is just to pricey. We'd have to all take paycuts and have every industry, every market drop prices if Australia is any chance to compete in a global market.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Ridiculous. These unions continually do the same thing, protecting themselves right now and refusing any give and thus dooming the industry later. Whats the point in protecting your entitlements now if as a result you don't have a job in a couple of years? They need to wake up and realise this big foreign owned corporations and many local owned outfits just cant turn a profit with everything so expensive here.

Huge reform, that is basically impossible needs to happen. People can scream trade embargos all they want and going all redneck and keeping out the evil foreigners but Australia is just to pricey. We'd have to all take paycuts and have every industry, every market drop prices if Australia is any chance to compete in a global market.

I always assumed you were an Aussie living within Australia, but obviously I was wrong.
An Aussie who currently sees the exorbitant costs of day to day living in Australia and just how far (NOT) your money goes would not be talking of blue collar workers and pay cuts in the same sentence.

Without going into the depths of it, some of Toyota's requests amongst others is an initial pay cut, reduction of penalty rates, abolish loading rates, introduction of new labour on lesser rate without opportunity of progressing in pay structure, abolish trade entitlements eg A-Grade license fee etc and the list goes on.

Whilst some bag the unions and our forefathers who maintained their struggle so we can ALL enjoy a more prosperous working life in line with our Australian values, they fail to recognise the employer groups themselves form their own union in a bid to undermine our above value's.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, believe it when I say both Holden & Toyota are within the confines of the AIG, relishing on Fords closure decision, strategically collaborating together, blackmailing the industry and holding it to ransom in order to reduce operational labour costs - Not coz they aren't sustainable in our country as its all relative, but because greedy shareholders want more. Funny though how VIRTUALLY NONE of their suggested cost reducing initiatives involve restructuring for operational efficiencies, but rather an attack on the employees conditions.
I think that's enuff said - Any clearer it would be invisible.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by fte50

I always assumed you were an Aussie living within Australia, but obviously I was wrong.
An Aussie who currently sees the exorbitant costs of day to day living in Australia and just how far (NOT) your money goes would not be talking of blue collar workers and pay cuts in the same sentence.

Without going into the depths of it, some of Toyota's requests amongst others is an initial pay cut, reduction of penalty rates, abolish loading rates, introduction of new labour on lesser rate without opportunity of progressing in pay structure, abolish trade entitlements eg A-Grade license fee etc and the list goes on.

Whilst some bag the unions and our forefathers who maintained their struggle so we can ALL enjoy a more prosperous working life in line with our Australian values, they fail to recognise the employer groups themselves form their own union in a bid to undermine our above value's.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, believe it when I say both Holden & Toyota are within the confines of the AIG, relishing on Fords closure decision, strategically collaborating together, blackmailing the industry and holding it to ransom in order to reduce operational labour costs - Not coz they aren't sustainable in our country, but because greedy shareholders want more. Funny though how VIRTUALLY NONE of their suggested cost reducing initiatives involve restructuring for operational efficiencies, but rather an attack on the employees conditions.
I think that's enuff said - Any clearer it would be invisible.

Well if you read my full post you'd see I said pay cuts and and lowering the prices of everything. That's why everything is going kaput in Australia, in a more global economy/market like we have now our ridiculous costs/wages make us too expensive. Everything is retardedly expensive here and we require high wages as result making turning a profit here for big companies, especially foreign owned very hard.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Well if you read my full post you'd see I said pay cuts and and lowering the prices of everything. That's why everything is going kaput in Australia, in a more global economy/market like we have now our ridiculous costs/wages make us too expensive. Everything is retardedly expensive here and we require high wages as result making turning a profit here for big companies, especially foreign owned very hard.

Wait a minute, you just said everything is retardedly expensive and we require high wages as a result, but you're bagging the unions for fighting for reasonable pay.

Whats the point in protecting your entitlements now if as a result you don't have a job in a couple of years?

Are you really this stupid? The Holden employees signed on a new EBA with pay cuts and now Holden has basically announced they are done in 2016/17, like they said they would be before they asked the workers to take pay cuts. The workers should have said no, kept their rate of pay and kept the next couple years enjoying a decent wage and entitlements.

How can anyone fall for this ****? The people that fall for this blatant crap are scabs that bludge off the decent wages and rights that union members pay for, with their wallets and their jobs. That nice pay and holiday/sick leave entitlements you have - do you think a company is going to OFFER you that out of a gesture of good faith? No. That **** was fought for and it will be taken away from us slowly but surely because of workers that have no guts to stand up for themselves and are happy just coasting along off others achievements and will have it taken away not having a single fighting chance or a say about it.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by stazza

Are you really this stupid? The Holden employees signed on a new EBA with pay cuts and now Holden has basically announced they are done in 2016/17, like they said they would be before they asked the workers to take pay cuts. The workers should have said no, kept their rate of pay and kept the next couple years enjoying a decent wage and entitlements.
it.

I thought the Holden deal was only if they get the govco money as well? Holden workers are on the original eba until then?

[Franco Cozzo]

Meh, we've got no EBA or union representation at work and we're still in the ****, so its not unions that are the problem, if you aren't competing, you aren't competing, and I doubt its wages only. At least everyone in an EBA is on the same rate depending on their qualifications, at our work you can be the laziest person in the workshop but because you negotiated really good when you got hired, you're the highest paid person who does **** all and spends all day in the toilet on facebook, while the guy who busts his *** is on $4 an hour less than you and puts out much more work, or the guy who struggles with English is on not much more than minimum wage even though he has the best work ethic in the place.

Welcome to globalisation, everyone wanted it, what happens is we have our living standards and people in third world countries have theirs, we're all going to meet somewhere in the middle, or we're screwed.

I don't know about you guys but the people who agreed to the entitlement cuts at Holden in SA are probably feeling pretty silly now that they're going to close up anyway, and that they just dicked themselves, on false promises.

I see anti union posts all over the forum but not one person offering to lose their 4 weeks paid annual leave, paid public holidays, paid sick days, 9% superannuation, penalty rates and go onto a lower pay rate.

If we lose those, maybe we aren't such the "lucky country" anymore?

[Agile]

The FACTS are that the concessions agreed to by the union and workers, for GMH workers, has LAPSED !!!!. Why ? Because GMH have NOT complied with their side of the agreement. Got it !!!! GMH are now operating on the WPA as of prior to September 2013. This IS NOT a union created disaster. This is the Govco ******* this ****ry completely with their fugged global village boooolshit. Got It ?
This will NOT, repeat NOT, be turned around. Car manufacturing in Australia is finished. Thank you to the economic rationalists. Get It ?

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by Agile

The FACTS are that the concessions agreed to by the union and workers, for GMH workers, has LAPSED !!!!. Why ? Because GMH have NOT complied with their side of the agreement. Got it !!!! GMH are now operating on the WPA as of prior to September 2013. This IS NOT a union created disaster. This is the Govco ******* this ****ry completely with their fugged global village boooolshit. Got It ?
This will NOT, repeat NOT, be turned around. Car manufacturing in Australia is finished. Thank you to the economic rationalists. Get It ?

Finally a realist , albeit with some irrational thinking , but you can't have it all I suppose !

[|||]

better to die on your feet than live on your knees

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by |||

better to die on your feet than live on your knees

As long as you don't whinge about it while you are dying .
Why do these arguments over who is morally right or wrong keep cropping up ? The facts are there and both sides of the fence tend to agree , labour IS cheaper overseas (as is no doubt building the factory kitting it out ,tooling the list goes on ) , everyone has agreed on that point at least . Anyone can see the facts , you are not going to change them , a labour government couldn't when it was in power , both state and federally all they could do was to offer incentives to attract or keep business . but the line has to be drawn somewhere .
It is up to the workers to decide if they wish to fight or try and make a go of it , only they know what's best for them and in reality unlike the mines where they will bring in scab labour when there is a profit to be made the car industry is at the mercy of every bugger .