What was the first imported car post 1948 to be sold in Australia with Holden badges?

[Syndrome]

This is when Holden began to lose it's 100% Australian identity.

[GasoLane]

Is this a question, a statement or too much red cordial on your part?

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Is this a question, a statement or too much red cordial on your part?

There is a ? in the title so it is obviously a question.

[TC200six]

First fully imported Holdens were the Rodeo and Jackaroo in 1981

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by TC200six

First fully imported Holdens were the Rodeo and Jackaroo in 1981

Must be these 2,

If the geminis & hb toranas were put together here.

Holden badge for jackeroo & rodeo were made and applied in Oz.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

There is a ? in the title so it is obviously a question.

Sorry, I meant to include your first post as well.

[Syndrome]

All Holden model timeline:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Holden_timeline

It does not identify which are local and which are imported vehicles.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

This is when Holden began to lose it's 100% Australian identity.

1980s under Button when 25% tariffs were lowered, Holden Nova and Apollo (Corolla and Camry) followed by Astra and Vectra...

The rot began before that with Torana (Vauxhall Viva), Gemini (Isuzu) and Commodore (Opel) being regionalised and built here.

Once we opened our borders and stopped protecting the local industry with 25% tariffs, the end of our local industry was inevitable...

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by jpd80

1980s under Button when 25% tariffs were lowered, Holden Nova and Apollo (Corolla and Camry) followed by Astra and Vectra...

The rot began before that with Torana (Vauxhall Viva), Gemini (Isuzu) and Commodore (Opel) being regionalised and built here.

Once we opened our borders and stopped protecting the local industry with 25% tariffs, the end of our local industry was inevitable...

Were all Torana models locally assembled?

[Sprint XR8]

First fully imported Holden was the Rodeo in 1980. First full import car was the Barina in 1985.

[D Block]

Were some of the early TX Geminis imported.? They had Isuzu-Holden badging. I had one with Isuzu badging and also had a local assembly car. Difference in quality like chalk and cheese. Isuzu badged heaps better.........Hmmm.....relatively

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by D Block

Were some of the early TX Geminis imported.? They had Isuzu-Holden badging. I had one with Isuzu badging and also had a local assembly car. Difference in quality like chalk and cheese. Isuzu badged heaps better.........Hmmm.....relatively

I remember that...it was very noticeable at the time and I recall other makes doing comparisons between the same, or very similar, cars, some of which were fully imported and some built here. BIG differences were apparent.

People also forget that the local industry got lazy...they were protected from the big bad world, and were happy to dish out haphazardly built, under-equipped poor performing cars and the public sucked it all up because it didn't know any better. My parents always had "imports", from a Hillman Super Minx when I was born up until I was about six, to a couple of brand new Mazdas starting with a Capella in 1971, a top of the line 929 wagon in 1974, then on to a Diahatsu Charade top of the line model in 1984, to a Mazda 121 in 1998 which is still going strong for my mother. Our neighbour in Nambour always bought Holden, full stop, despite being a watchmaker with a jewellery shop. I remember even now all the standard features that the cars our neighbour bought just didn't have, or which were expensive options on the Holden (if they were available at all), and my father and he indulging in a bit of good natured ribbing back and forth over the fence about the subject.

In an isolated country like ours, yes, it can be a good idea to be able to build your own cars to suit...however, that doesn't mean the makers can ignore the quality and features of foreign cars and just expect the government to protect them strongly from the nasty furriners who are coming in with fancy stuff they aren't willing to put in their boring old outdated cars.

Sorry...but sometimes the truth hurts. I have no doubt in my mind that the current Commodore and Falcon would be nowhere near the standard they are now if it weren't for strong foreign competition. Their problem is that they are too big and not what the public wants any more...and both makers were caught on the back foot (as plenty of other car manufacturers have over the decades) when buying trends changed.
They're not selling to an uneducated (about cars) "captive audience" anymore.

[Bluehoon]

How do you define imported?
Straight import and roll out the showroom? Or a model and localised?

If the latter - it all started with the Vommit Bomb in 1978/9.... IMO.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

How do you define imported?
Straight import and roll out the showroom? Or a model and localised?

If the latter - it all started with the Vommit Bomb in 1978/9.... IMO.

Built here or not built here. Simple.

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Built here or not built here. Simple.

VB Commodore, hands down.

1) Cultural shift to mid size which back fired
2) Imported design from Opel
3) All models there after were modelled an imported options.

Infact only constant was the underpinning chassis design as that didnt change from VB to VZ. This is why the VN had so an overbody or overchassis look about it. It came good in VS and kicked *** in VT/VX though.

VTII SS in Blue with Gen3 is still a rocker car IMO, depsite it's short comings.

VB started the rot, from Holden's perspective.

[FGII-XR6]

not that simple, how do you define built here?

1. locally built from components mostly locally made and a local design
2. locally built from components mostly locally made and an offshore design
3. locally built from a CKD kit ( like the Laser)

as you can see different people can have a different view on what is a local car

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Built here or not built here. Simple.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

How do you define imported?
Straight import and roll out the showroom? Or a model and localised?

If the latter - it all started with the Vommit Bomb in 1978/9.... IMO.

The VB was a massive re-engineering of the Opel Commodore, hardly just as simple as being "localised" easily...it was a wider body, had completely different suspension (stronger "old fashioned" diff instead of "fragile" German IRS that was built for nice smooth highways), etc, etc.

Now, "world cars" are built to be modded easily for different markets, and pretty much work anywhere as-is, but back then, cars from one country were built, mostly, to suit that country and that country alone, and needed a lot of work to go to somewhere with vastly different conditions. It's a whole different ball game these days.

[Bluehoon]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The VB was a massive re-engineering of the Opel Commodore, hardly just as simple as being "localised" easily...it was a wider body, had completely different suspension (stronger "old fashioned" diff instead of "fragile" German IRS that was built for nice smooth highways), etc, etc.

Now, "world cars" are built to be modded easily for different markets, and pretty much work anywhere as-is, but back then, cars from one country were built, mostly, to suit that country and that country alone, and needed a lot of work to go to somewhere with vastly different conditions. It's a whole different ball game these days.

Very true, and I agree. However it was the start of where commodore became an import. Regardless of the reworking, the car didn't have origins in Australia but rather a rebirth for local conditions.

I just looked up my 50 years of Holden book. Under VB it states the car's origin from Europe with parts from Rekord and that the car was based on Opel V.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I remember that...it was very noticeable at the time and I recall other makes doing comparisons between the same, or very similar, cars, some of which were fully imported and some built here. BIG differences were apparent.

People also forget that the local industry got lazy...they were protected from the big bad world, and were happy to dish out haphazardly built, under-equipped poor performing cars and the public sucked it all up because it didn't know any better. My parents always had "imports", from a Hillman Super Minx when I was born up until I was about six, to a couple of brand new Mazdas starting with a Capella in 1971, a top of the line 929 wagon in 1974, then on to a Diahatsu Charade top of the line model in 1984, to a Mazda 121 in 1998 which is still going strong for my mother. Our neighbour in Nambour always bought Holden, full stop, despite being a watchmaker with a jewellery shop. I remember even now all the standard features that the cars our neighbour bought just didn't have, or which were expensive options on the Holden (if they were available at all), and my father and he indulging in a bit of good natured ribbing back and forth over the fence about the subject.

In an isolated country like ours, yes, it can be a good idea to be able to build your own cars to suit...however, that doesn't mean the makers can ignore the quality and features of foreign cars and just expect the government to protect them strongly from the nasty furriners who are coming in with fancy stuff they aren't willing to put in their boring old outdated cars.

Sorry...but sometimes the truth hurts. I have no doubt in my mind that the current Commodore and Falcon would be nowhere near the standard they are now if it weren't for strong foreign competition. Their problem is that they are too big and not what the public wants any more...and both makers were caught on the back foot (as plenty of other car manufacturers have over the decades) when buying trends changed.
They're not selling to an uneducated (about cars) "captive audience" anymore.

How can one say they were poor performing etc, the junk you are on about were rubbish in it's day.
The aussie people were backward mainly just like the yanks, they loved there drum brake poorly damped understeering cars because that was all they could comprehend. they do not consist of driving enthusiast but just stupid lazy dopey numb skull twerps that some how have a licence.
People were mainly poor in this nation if you look back so they bought 6 cyl kingswoods etc = junk but you could get V8's and get them perfoming well but this was fround on by most, even mechanics as they would say why do you want better brakes etc.
Look at the aurion they etc of today they don't cut it compared to commodore or falcon to drive and where you can drive them, ok for a city car for some fairy driver as this FWD crap is not made for the majority of true aussie conditions of a 2WD.
look at our utes nothing is better than the aussies by far.

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by D Block

Were some of the early TX Geminis imported.? They had Isuzu-Holden badging. I had one with Isuzu badging and also had a local assembly car. Difference in quality like chalk and cheese. Isuzu badged heaps better.........Hmmm.....relatively

I thought the 1975 geminis were called TC, the first ones in coupe version (& sedan)had a badge between the tail lights stating "Isuzu Gemini", however they did have the HQ side mirrors screwed to them.
Geminis were bolted together at Brisbane's Acacia Ridge, Not sure if the first ever batch came from there or Japan.
What is with the 1967 toranas (vivas) were they bolted together here?

[D Block]

Originally Posted by Arnaldo

I thought the 1975 geminis were called TC,...

First ones were TX. Yep they built Geminis at Acacia Ridge just off Beaudesrt Road. A mate went there for a workplace visit as part of his block relaease during his apprenticeship. He reckons it was an eye opener. Big rubber mallets, knees into doors while yanking on the frame, Spray guns with a wide spray fan. They certainly were a budget car and built that way. He never said if they were a CKD or built from scratch.

[4.0i_SiX]

Didn't it begin with the HB Torana? Vauxhall Viva

[JG66ME]

4.0i_six is correct. HB Torana was a Vauxhall Viva, 1967. Prior to that Vauxhall cars where sold by Holden dealers as Vauxhall. It was locally assembled though.

[zipping]

I thought it would be the HB but couldn't say for sure. 1 of my Holden mates had a couple in the mid 80's easily the worst car I've driven....please let me never experience that again

[vbvbvb088]

Originally Posted by zipping

I thought it would be the HB but couldn't say for sure. 1 of my Holden mates had a couple in the mid 80's easily the worst car I've driven....please let me never experience that again

Guilty your honor....

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

4.0i_six is correct. HB Torana was a Vauxhall Viva, 1967. Prior to that Vauxhall cars where sold by Holden dealers as Vauxhall. It was locally assembled though.

I back this statement, 1967 HB Torana was the 1st import, was not until 1969 Toranas were manufactured locally

[stevz]

Originally Posted by trublu

I back this statement, 1967 HB Torana was the 1st import, was not until 1969 Toranas were manufactured locally

Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_Viva

The HA was assembled in Australia by General Motors-Holden's commencing in 1964

The HB Viva was also built in Australia by General Motors–Holden's from 1967 to 1969 and marketed there as the Holden HB Torana.

As previously stated, the first fully imported Holden was the Rodeo in 1980.

[2011G6E]

We had a 1982 Rodeo "long bed" ute which we owned for about six or seven years, only selling it about two years ago...and what an eye opener it was compared to most of what was available at the time in the early late seventies and early eighties: reliable as hell, economical, able to be used and abused and just keep going, cheap to run. No wonder you still see so many of them around.

Vehicles like that opened peoples minds to the fact that there were other choices other than just a Ford Falcon or Holden Kingswood, and if you prefer it, "that's when the rot set in".

...only if you define "rot setting in" as the public realising they could get a great deal on an amazing well equipped as standard car (often with standard fitments that weren't even available on local products), which cost heaps less to run, giving them a motoring experience quite different than what they'd been led to expect from a "normal family car".

[Cuyper]

I doubt the very first Toranas were built here, when they became built here.. That I don't know but that was the first imported model I'd say. I m sure someone on here owns one or has a friend that owns one and can find out, still heaps of them running down the 1/4 mile. Theres no way Holden would have tooled up and built that here from day one. The VB wasn't imported, sure many panel moulds would have been but I have as friend in Europe with the Opel version and on visiting me he could point out major differences in the chassis and body.

The HK-WB were very very similar to the American models under the sheet metal but not near identical like the Falcons of the period were to the American Falcons.

In the end these are both American companies and the Australian models from both were heavily influenced by the American cars or in Holdens case also the German cars. I guess many of the Capri/Escort and early Cortinas were fully imported also?.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

We had a 1982 Rodeo "long bed" ute which we owned for about six or seven years, only selling it about two years ago...and what an eye opener it was compared to most of what was available at the time in the early late seventies and early eighties: reliable as hell, economical, able to be used and abused and just keep going, cheap to run. No wonder you still see so many of them around.

Vehicles like that opened peoples minds to the fact that there were other choices other than just a Ford Falcon or Holden Kingswood, and if you prefer it, "that's when the rot set in".

...only if you define "rot setting in" as the public realising they could get a great deal on an amazing well equipped as standard car (often with standard fitments that weren't even available on local products), which cost heaps less to run, giving them a motoring experience quite different than what they'd been led to expect from a "normal family car".

And what happened to all those glorious and well equipped Japanese imports of the 70's and 80's? They quickly became smoke billowing **** boxes. They are as rare as hens teeth these days whereas you see plenty of old Holdens and Falcons still getting around.