Knuckle Head Senator says Drivers Should Decide Speed Limit

[MarkAW]

Just watched a story on ACA where this newly elected Senator thinks that speed limits should be taken out of the hands of engineers and be based on the views of motorists.

Can I have some of what this guy is smoking?

I can just see the mess, in Rose Bay the speed limits will be 20kph so that the old people can window shop whilst driving past whilst in downtown Boganville the flashing school zones will all be set at 120, a big reduction from "no limits".

[superyob]

Dare I ask what party this Senator is from?

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by superyob

Dare I ask what party this Senator is from?

Liberal Democratic Party

On looking at their website, this isn't just the stupid ranting of a single senator, it's actually their party policy.

[Legit290]

I couldn't believe my ears.
He said we had to work out how many road fatalities we could deal with to get places quicker.

Wayne Kerr

[fred1922]

Well in a way, it is, to some extent now decided by drivers. When you see those black strips on the road the 80/20% speeds are being recorded. Which is used to determine speed limits.

[saber]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Just watched a story on ACA where this newly elected Senator thinks that speed limits should be taken out of the hands of engineers and be based on the views of motorists.

As an aside; haven't speed limits been dictated by various lobby groups, the police, councils, governments and the like, rather then engineers for many years?

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by saber

As an aside; haven't speed limits been dictated by various lobby groups, the police, councils, governments and the like, rather then engineers for many years?

Engineers will rate a road based on its location, structure, surface finish, gradients, dividing mechanism, entering & exiting lanes etc etc. This is done by the government at either council or state (RTA) level. The police won't normally get involved unless there is long history of accidents involving death or serious injury and even then its referred back to the state or council engineers. As a generalisation Councils don't touch roads posted at 80ks or higher, they are state roads. Lobby groups rarely get what they want even after years of lobbying

[Ben73]

There is more to road safety than speed limits.

[Focused]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Just watched a story on ACA

There's the problem...

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by Focused

There's the problem...

What's wrong with a bit of comedy drama after dinner

[nstg8a]

No stupider than many other ideas put forward by gumbyment officials.

While he's obviously not going to succeed maybe it will allow a proper and realistic approach to speed limits, and why they seem to think Australians aren't capable of driving at similar speeds to many other developed countries.

[Bluehoon]

Watched it too, don't have a problem with it.

The two key issues surrounding were raised by the driver chick..

1) condition of older cars
2) driver's ability to handle the speed and judgement required.

Considering (IMO) the RTA (as this was state in the story) hands a license to just about anyone who shouldn't of being allowed to breathe, let alone drive the scheme is destined for consequence.
Fundamentally, the licensing, or inherant attitude the RTA has that it's everyone's right to drive is certainly a long standing cause for concern.

The fact drivers can span decades without having to demonstrate ability, common sense or even a knowledge of road rules speaks volume for the cavalier, immature and poor or rather gutless approach to managing driver licensing.

Have a heavy vehicle license in europe and don't pass the knowledge test to renew your license. You go back to the start as you demonstrated you don't know the rules. I.E. License is gone and you start fresh. We need this in Australia..!

The senator is correct, regardless of speed people will get injured, die or what not. Human stupidity will always be prevelant and no safety, enviro greenie save the planet wowser will ever stop this. Limit carnage - yes but stop no.
It's going to happen and it's a case of that's life and suck it up princess.

Yes that's harsh but we all need to face reality, you can't control other people and their actions, why kid yourself trying?

You can't stop drunk, unregistered drivers, they're going to do it, they're going to do it. People alredy speed in epic proportions, what does that say?
Lack of care and respect - so the message is lost already.

Raise the speed limit, make it harder for those who shouldn't have a license to get one and get us to where we need to be faster.
The roads, the cars and gear is there. Just limit the rubbish muppets using them.

Unless in heavy traffic the speed limits on Sydney roads are (IMO) around 30% understated. 50 zones for residential areas exempt, and school zones that's obvious.

I continue to watch speed limits reduce on my local roads under the miss used guidance of safety. What safety? The road hasn't changed, the accidents haven't reduced, the locals still speed. What reality or facts are these decisions based on? None. Only the drive towards damn bicycles because our utterly useless but face value brilliant socialist leaders think we're too dangerous to decide for ourselves. The ones that have abolutely no experince or knowledge make decisions for those that do. What a govco we have..!

You can't honestly tell me the M2 after roads works can't be raised to 130, seriously, who you kidding?

And, yes, I give the "law" its desk jockey, ignorant, cronyism, utopia orientated, university degree glass bowl idiots the bird at every chance. They've earnt it.

[stinkwheels]

I don't know if it different in other states but here in WA to keep a HR license you have to demonstrate that you've been actively driving trucks. If you can't then the options are to have it cancelled or sit a test to prove you are still current in your skills. Not sure how long but I think if you get to 5 years of not working as a truck driver they start to bug about it.

I think that the same thing will eventually be introduced for motorcycles in some way. Like if you haven't had a bike registered in your name for more than X years. The most over-represented rider group in accidents at the moment is the 'returning rider' group. These are guys that had a bike 20 years ago and still have the R class license. They go and buy a Harley, Triumph, or heavyweight Metric cruiser and hit a steep learning curve which they often can-off of.

[05_ENFORCER]

Originally Posted by stinkwheels

I don't know if it different in other states but here in WA to keep a HR license you have to demonstrate that you've been actively driving trucks.

Since when ?????

I have had my HC for over 10 years and have NEVER heard of that.

Is that HR specific?

Anyway..........Driver education is the key......................not politics.............




.

[nstg8a]

I drove up to maryborough last weekend, the first thing that struck me was how stupid the speed limits are, first part of the trip, all nice multi lane motorway, speed limit 80/100 Kms, then the road turns to crap, a lot narrower, obviously a lot older and the speed limit increases to 110kmh? Wtf?

[stinkwheels]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I drove up to maryborough last weekend, the first thing that struck me was how stupid the speed limits are, first part of the trip, all nice multi lane motorway, speed limit 80/100 Kms, then the road turns to crap, a lot narrower, obviously a lot older and the speed limit increases to 110kmh? Wtf?

Yeah it's strange when you see that. I sometimes wonder if the slower speed limit on the better, multi-lane road is to prevent a bottle-neck from forming where the road goes single-lane. Apparently they program traffic lights in the majors cities to maximize traffic flow through the city and I've wondered if some speed limits play a role.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by stinkwheels

Yeah it's strange when you see that. I sometimes wonder if the slower speed limit on the better, multi-lane road is to prevent a bottle-neck from forming where the road goes single-lane. Apparently they program traffic lights in the majors cities to maximize traffic flow through the city and I've wondered if some speed limits play a role.

you are absolutely right. many of these things are taken into account.
German traffic engineers, real engineers with degrees and experience and authority are currently developing systems to maximise traffic flow and speed to minimise fuel consumption through traffic light control, average speed maintenance along major arterials, detailed surveys and modelling of commuter traffic and rigorous assessment is key. Because even the ost efficient engine is wasting fuel while sitting stationary in unnecessary slow traffic.
Ever wonder why there are so many duel lane roads with 3 lanes at traffic lights. Its to move as many cars across the intersection during a cycle as possible to help mediate traffic, butt he average austyralian just blocks the merging traffic in the derby defeating the opportunity and slowing up everyone behind.

JP

[warpsp33d]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Ever wonder why there are so many duel lane roads with 3 lanes at traffic lights. Its to move as many cars across the intersection during a cycle as possible to help mediate traffic, butt he average austyralian just blocks the merging traffic in the derby defeating the opportunity and slowing up everyone behind.
JP

and then some smart cookie comes along and turns it into a priority lane for busses, with their own dedicated sequence, only to have the bus take off and be so slow that a few km down the road it slows all the traffic up as the slow people in the left lane pile up behind the bus and attempt to get into the right lane, slowly... and the gumby drivers in the right lane slow down when the bus slows down too. Wonderful traffic flow, absolutely wonderful.

I've also seen a tonne of examples where the traffic lights go green only for the immediate next set, less than a few hundred meters away, goes red. That's very economical and definitely cuts down on pollution and congestion.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by warpsp33d

I've also seen a tonne of examples where the traffic lights go green only for the immediate next set, less than a few hundred meters away, goes red. That's very economical and definitely cuts down on pollution and congestion.

yeah but we are a back water outpost so will be 20 years before real thinking lands here.

JP

[ozpacman]

I've also seen a tonne of examples where the traffic lights go green only for the immediate next set, less than a few hundred meters away, goes red. That's very economical and definitely cuts down on pollution and congestion.

They must have been set up by traffic engineers who did their training in Cairns Queensland.

That particular system has been operating in our city for years. I think that those who designed and installed them here had such pride in their work that they like you to pause and admire each and every traffic light for a few minutes so you can reflect on what a marvelous thing they really are!

Russ.

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I drove up to maryborough last weekend, the first thing that struck me was how stupid the speed limits are, first part of the trip, all nice multi lane motorway, speed limit 80/100 Kms, then the road turns to crap, a lot narrower, obviously a lot older and the speed limit increases to 110kmh? Wtf?

I dont know what highway you were on but on the Bruce,its 110kph from just north of Brisbane untill you get to Coroy ,then its 90kph untill you get to the new bit of highway they put in to bypass the dam they never built ,but its a great bit of road ,110 kph too ,nearly to Gympie ,then its 90 kph until the Wide bay highway turnoff ,then its 100 kph until just south of MARYBOROUGH ,there is a few places where roadworks are going on that is 80 ,but not a lot ,we travel this road a lot and when they finish the highway from Coroy to Curra ,no more bloody lights in Gympie

[danzvtil]

if you read it again, it suggests we use the 85th percentile rule, where when you take into account people who will drive to excessive speeds for a given road, the 85th % speed would be quite close to what is posted today.Even still the nanna in her camry with a crochet rug on the parcel shelf will still do 60 in a 90 zone.
The rest of this partys policies are mentally unstable.

[dragons90]

that's only cause everyone ones to scared or speeding, also will be easy to overtake legally if someone is doing 90 in a 130 zone compared to being near on impossible in a 100 zone.

[2011G6E]

Really torn on this one.

Given the pitiful state of driver "training" in Australia, I wouldn't support it. However, I do believe there should be some sort of graduated licence system where people who have proven to be good experienced drivers should have a bit more leeway, a little like the old NT used to be...do 160 in a modern car and know what you're doing, cops wouldn't look twice. Do 120 in a rattly rustbucket and you'd get pulled over.

However, then you run into the problem that you yourself could be a world class safe driver in a well maintained car, but you have to remember that you are sharing the road with people who frankly got their licences on the back of a cornflakes box. It really is a "lowest common denominator" situation...they have to set a limit that is good enough to get places in a reasonable time, but they have to accept and allow that there is a significant number of drivers who you wouldn't feel safe with at 20kph in a carpark much less 110 on a highway.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Really torn on this one.

Given the pitiful state of driver "training" in Australia, I wouldn't support it. However, I do believe there should be some sort of graduated licence system where people who have proven to be good experienced drivers should have a bit more leeway, a little like the old NT used to be...do 160 in a modern car and know what you're doing, cops wouldn't look twice. Do 120 in a rattly rustbucket and you'd get pulled over.

However, then you run into the problem that you yourself could be a world class safe driver in a well maintained car, but you have to remember that you are sharing the road with people who frankly got their licences on the back of a cornflakes box. It really is a "lowest common denominator" situation...they have to set a limit that is good enough to get places in a reasonable time, but they have to accept and allow that there is a significant number of drivers who you wouldn't feel safe with at 20kph in a carpark much less 110 on a highway.

I always find it odd that people will do 20-30km/h under the limit on a specific road. Only to follow them into a car park where people are popping out from behind cars and they drive like complete lunatics...

[joolz]

Its all well and good to have higher speed limits on major dual highways but if fools well under the limit cant keep left unless over overtaking whats the point unless its ENFORCED. Also when overtaking they normally dont give way to a driver in the right lane about to overtake them as they pull out to overtake again well under the limit. Got me stuffed as they surely adhere to speed limit signs but not the "keep left unless overtaking"ones... Again the limits would be decided on the 85 percentile theory as other countries already do. This story was in the papers late last week so its old news and i doubt i see the Hume and Western Hwy have an increase in my life time...

[chevypower]

I don't mind drivers deciding on speed limits. As long as that driver is me.

[MAD]

The only problem with leaving some of these decisions to an "Engineer", is that they probably aren't a real engineer and haven't completed 4-5 yrs of study but simply made up a job title like one I saw recently "Customer Satisfaction Engineer".

If the decisions are in fact made by a real engineer, then it goes along with just about all engineering in Australia, and that is, everyone is too damn scared to stick their neck out at all and all just play it safe, to the extreme.


The 85th percentile rule is pretty much "allowing drivers to set the limit".
People will travel within a rough margin of the limit WITHOUT having to check their speedo every 5 seconds.

[MercurySilver]

dont worry about speed limits, making cyclists use the friggin bike lanes is more important

[lucas2]

No matter what they do there will be deaths on the roads. The road toll for 2013 in Victoria at least has been the lowest since 1924 with 242 fatalities. When you put that into perspective with the amount of cars on the road each day, it really is a very low percentage. However, I really feel for those that have passed and their families as a result of some other irresponsible idiot, such as the recent crash in Oakleigh, terrible.