Law on stolen and recovered cars

[jackute23]

Does anyone know the law (Victoria) on this. My mates Falcon was stolen and and later police contacted him and told him they had found out who stole it. But he couldn't get the car back because the thief sold it to someone who purchased it in good faith.

I used to think stolen property could be seized and returned to it's owner. How can his ownership of the car be removed because it gets stolen and sold?

He was told that he would have to sue the thief (who is apparently some hopeless creep who owns nothing) if he wants compensation, but he still can't get his car back??

[Stefan]

Interesting, sounds at odds with what I have always understood. Like you I thought the original owner always got it back?

Was it insured? That makes a difference too. As I understood the insurance company owned it if a pay out was made.

I'd be ropable if I had to sue the thief, the buyer should have done a check to see if it is stolen and therefore should not benefit from "good faith"

[Bushbasher]

That doesn't sound right. I thought the owner gets his stolen item/s back and it's the buyer who has to pursue the thief for compensation.
How can the new owner register the car without the rego papers, especially if it's listed as a stolen vehicle?

[LG17]

If your mate is/was the legally registered owner of the vehicle then it is still his, in whatever condition it is.
Now, I'm assuming he notified the police and his insurance company when it was stolen.
He should be contacting his insurance company immediately. If they paid him out then they will have the rights and deal with it.
The bloke who bought it will be out of pocket and have no car.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by LG17

If your mate is/was the legally registered owner of the vehicle then it is still his, in whatever condition it is.
Now, I'm assuming he notified the police and his insurance company when it was stolen.
He should be contacting his insurance company immediately. If they paid him out then they will have the rights and deal with it.
The bloke who bought it will be out of pocket and have no car.

I agree with the vibe of your comment but it even says on the transfer of registration certificate that registration doesn't prove ownership of the vehicle. Most people don't bother writing up a contract when purchasing on the used market - instead they put their faith in a "verbal contract" and therefore this is often overlooked or misunderstood.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Does anyone know the law (Victoria) on this. My mates Falcon was stolen and and later police contacted him and told him they had found out who stole it. But he couldn't get the car back because the thief sold it to someone who purchased it in good faith.

I used to think stolen property could be seized and returned to it's owner. How can his ownership of the car be removed because it gets stolen and sold?

He was told that he would have to sue the thief (who is apparently some hopeless creep who owns nothing) if he wants compensation, but he still can't get his car back??

If that is true the cop is telling a fairy tail.

Unfortunately the guy purchased stolen goods and they have to be returned to the rightful owner. This can happen even if a stolen vehicle is on sold to several later owners.

Was the thief charged ? If not this makes this story even more odd.

[Sorted]

Some one has not giving us all the facts..........

I'm off to buy a FPV F6 for $100 off a thief in good faith.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Does anyone know the law (Victoria) on this. My mates Falcon was stolen and and later police contacted him and told him they had found out who stole it. But he couldn't get the car back because the thief sold it to someone who purchased it in good faith.

I used to think stolen property could be seized and returned to it's owner. How can his ownership of the car be removed because it gets stolen and sold?

He was told that he would have to sue the thief (who is apparently some hopeless creep who owns nothing) if he wants compensation, but he still can't get his car back??

Absolute rubbish. Contract law states that you cannot pass on greater title than what you possess. In the above case the thief had no title so the sale to the third party is void (good faith has no bearing). The defect in the contract stems back to the thief not obtaining title from your mate.

Go back to the cops and tell them to go pick up the car. Now.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Absolute rubbish. Contract law states that you cannot pass on greater title than what you possess. In the above case the thief had no title so the sale to the third party is void (good faith has no bearing). The defect in the contract stems back to the thief not obtaining title from your mate.

Go back to the cops and tell them to go pick up the car. Now.

This^^^^

The buyer can not 'own' the car as he bought it from someone that does not own the car, how can the thief sell something he does not own and pass on ownership that he does not have?? Even if the car has been sold 10 times over and rebuild twice it still belongs to the original owner.

If the insurance company has paid the original owner out then he no longer owns it and the insurance company owns it unless he has salvage rights.

Obviously this is another of these stories where there will be a lot more to it than the OP disclosed, as no police officer in any state would be telling the owner any of this.

[xr6tjet]

Was the car registered? If so it can't be re-registered if someone already owns it. Vicroads won't even allow it to pass rego as the status of the car will be 'stolen' which is inputted by police? Something stupid here.

[BlueBear]

So have someone steal it back and sell it to you for $50.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by jackute23

But he couldn't get the car back because the thief sold it to someone who purchased it in good faith.

That would be a great loop hole in the law wouldn't it?

I get old mate ice junkie to steal me a nice car, I buy it in good faith and old mate ice junkie gets caught and gets a slap on the wrist and has already smoked the profits of his stealing and I get to keep my newly aquired car all the while the owner misses out

[Beastie]

Do the police know who the thief sold the car to and the actual location of the car?

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally, under common law (ie law derived by the courts over the course of history) ownership of stolen goods remained with the original owner. Somebody who bought stolen goods was out of luck and out of pocket.

However at least some states (maybe all) have passed legislation to change that. I don't know what the law is in Victoria, nor am I an expert on the law here in WA, but I unfortunately know how it works from first hand experience.

If you see something advertised on say gumtree, attend what appears to be a legitimate sale, and pay close to a fair market price, the law will offer you some protection. The police will investigate, weigh the evidence, and make a determination.

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

That would be a great loop hole in the law wouldn't it?
I get old mate ice junkie to steal me a nice car, I buy it in good faith and old mate ice junkie gets caught and gets a slap on the wrist and has already smoked the profits of his stealing and I get to keep my newly aquired car all the while the owner misses out

No, you would be prosecuted for theft,
and since junkie was only working for you, you would get a much harsher penalty, probably gaol.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Originally, under common law (ie law derived by the courts over the course of history) ownership of stolen goods remained with the original owner. Somebody who bought stolen goods was out of luck and out of pocket.

However at least some states (maybe all) have passed legislation to change that. I don't know what the law is in Victoria, nor am I an expert on the law here in WA, but I unfortunately know how it works from first hand experience.

If you see something advertised on say gumtree, attend what appears to be a legitimate sale, and pay close to a fair market price, the law will offer you some protection. The police will investigate, weigh the evidence, and make a determination.

Any links to this legislation, I would be interested?? So what protection does the owner have??

So in this case someone steals my 80K GT out of my shed, someone else buys it on Gumtree, police locate the car 3 month later and I can't get it back?? And the new 'owner' get to cruise the streets in MY car?? While I go back to work and save for another 10-15 years to buy a new one.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

No, you would be prosecuted for theft,
and since junkie was only working for you, you would get a much harsher penalty, probably gaol.

Prove it!!

I bought the car in good faith, you prove that I didn't.

[Crazy Dazz]

Consider the alternative:
And this is a TRUE story, from many years back, presumably before the changes to the law.
Dirtbag walks out on his partner and kids, leaving behind amongst other things an old car. At some point she sells it.
New owner spends a lot of money to restore the car.
Somehow dirtbag becomes aware of this, contacts police and reclaims his car. Police determine that car was "stolen" as his former partner had no legal right to sell it, and they return (restored) car to dirtbag.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Consider the alternative:
And this is a TRUE story, from many years back, presumably before the changes to the law.
Dirtbag walks out on his partner and kids, leaving behind amongst other things an old car. At some point she sells it.
New owner spends a lot of money to restore the car.
Somehow dirtbag becomes aware of this, contacts police and reclaims his car. Police determine that car was "stolen" as his former partner had no legal right to sell it, and they return (restored) car to dirtbag.

Very different situation. in this case the car was never reported stolen it was abandoned.

If I report my car stolen today and someone buys it on Gumtree tomorrow, it's still my car, they have no right to it.

Like I said massive loop hole in the law if this is the case.

Who said she had no right to sell it?? If he walks out on her and the kids she has every right to sell it, unless he is up to date on his parental payments and puts a claim on the vehicle.

Still waiting for link to legislation.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Still waiting for link to legislation.

https://www.google.com.au/

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

https://www.google.com.au/

That's a link to Google, I want to see where exactly you found this legislation that says that the buyer can keep the stolen car of the original victim who lost his car.

I guess you can't find it either.

Originally Posted by xxxg

Seriously doubt any of this. Someone is not telling the truth.

^^^^ This.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

That's a link to Google,

yes, yes it is.
In other words, if you want to find something, go look for it yourself. Or pay a lawyer.
As I said, I unfortunately only know about this from first hand experience. So yeah, thanks for helping dig up painful memories.
The police had to make a "Determination under sec XYZ of the blah-blah Act" I wish I could remember the name of the act, but I can't.
Long Story short, old mate who paid $2k for my property worth at least $10k got to keep it. The theft happened back in 2010, but my property wasn't recovered until 2013.

[Crazy Dazz]

Like anything, it comes down to the facts, and what police can determine.
I'm not suggesting said protection would be automatic.
If your car is stolen today, you report it, old mate buys it for cash tomorrow without doing a REVS check, then I'm fairly coincident he would be up **** creek without the proverbial.

[FairmontGS]

There are exceptions to the contract law title rule but that would involve shenanigans on the part of the original owner, none of which has been suggested here by the OP, so I won't go into any detail.

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by jackute23

My mates Falcon was stolen and and later police contacted him and told him they had found out who stole it. But he couldn't get the car back because the thief sold it to someone who purchased it in good faith.

*A day later, the Police officer was spotted visiting a mates house to check out his new Falcon.*



Seriously doubt any of this. Someone is not telling the truth.

[MrEL]

It goes back to the rightful owner.
Mate of mine years ago had his LJ 2 door station hack flogged from the station one day. Not insured as it was a total *******. He only reported it incase the car was used in a crime. He paid $150 for it a couple of years before.
Few years later while the coppers were doing checks on assests at a property they had done a drug raid on , the said Torana showed up.
It had been fully rebuilt into an XU1 mock up and had a flybolted rego on it.
It was held up going through legal channels and proof of ownership for about 3 months but my mate got the car back. In the same condition as the police found it.
Obviously he didnt park it at the station anymore.

[MrEL]

The only time that the person who has bought it can keep it is if the legal owner wants no claim to it.
People have been able to keep cars as insurance companies have paid the original owner out and the vehicle is not worth the hassle of recovery to them.
Rare but it has happened.

[LG17]

...and where is the OP?

[jackute23]

Thanks for comments, very helpful. I should have provided more detail. The car is an AU which I'm told was not comprehensively insured when stolen (3rd party Ins only). The reg expired after it was stolen and not re-registered in Vic and it was sold to someone unregistered.

The owner (original) has been made aware of all the above comments and is now going to see a lawyer, instead of accepting the police claim that he now has no legal right to his car.
Appreciate help..

[Morexbs]

Originally Posted by jackute23

Thanks for comments, very helpful. I should have provided more detail. The car is an AU which I'm told was not comprehensively insured when stolen (3rd party Ins only). The reg expired after it was stolen and not re-registered in Vic and it was sold to someone unregistered.
.

It still makes no sense.If the car was reported stolen at the time (was it?),then the police need to recover it.That's their job.

[66GT]

Mate had his registered box trailer stolen approx 6 months ago, no insurance but informed police. 3 months latter new owner (purchased unregistered from thief - in good faith) was informed said trailer was stolen when went to get registered. Mate had to drive 200kms to collect his trailer back, New owner now no trailer & out of pocket.

[SumoDog68]

It is interesting that insurance and registration is mentioned - i didn't think ownership was related to either. Don't You still own the car even if unregistered or uninsured ?