Exhaust note/tone on the Barra

[wildpete]

Hi All, I was reading the forums on exhaust systems a while back where somebody commented from my recollection that the barra six sounds like crap because of the variable valve timing. I dont know whether their is any truth to the comment but I do agree that these engines do not sound as tough as the older generation RB26 turbos for example.

Can a turbo barra sound as tough as those old turbo skylines?

Could I just run standard cam timing on my G6ET if I preferred sound over substance and was not chasing performance and/or economy?

Cheers

[solarite_guy]

In what way does it sound like crap?

[wildpete]

I didn't say they sound like crap I think. I just said that in my opinion they did not sound as tough as the older skylines. Happy to be proven wrong and pointed in the direction.

[wildpete]

Just reread my original post an yes I did say crap - sorry my bad. FYI my exhaust is completely stock but I have no intenion of changing it (unless I can get one of those muffler deletes in NZ) until it's not my daily driver. Probably 5 years time.

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

In what way does it sound like crap?

In the way that it sounds like a leaf blower.

Factory RB26 engines feature solid cams.. Most modified RB 2.5 - 3.0L+ engines use wild duration cams either hydraulic or solid. Add in the fact that it's a smaller capacity and a different design of motor and you have your answer.

I've heard one good Barra in my life and it was Dion Amato's de-stroked 3.7L [GMKILR] on youtube

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by FG50T

In the way that it sounds like a leaf blower.

...Most modified...

Okay, that makes sense. I can understand the leaf blower sound being an issue. Yet some like it.

A good performance exhaust system, starting with a set of headers will get rid of that. Although, some of the turbo exhaust manifolds aren't too bad compared to the old style logs.

On the flip side, I'll offer, as inline 6 cylinder engines with 120* crankshafts the engines have enough in common to inherently make similar exhaust notes; differences being pulse frequency (rpm) and sound frequency of each pulse (cylinder displacement).

The modified part, we all know how that goes. The more powerful the state of tune and spec, the more powerful the exhaust sound tends to be.

Should mention, for folks who have never hot rodded an engine, always design the induction and exhaust after deciding on engine spec and tune.

Maybe the OP didn't do enough research for his intended goals prior to purchase?

[GASWAGON]

What sort of exhaust system/extractors are fitted to the G6ET?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by CoolBFWagon

What sort of exhaust system/extractors are fitted to the G6ET?

Would not have extractors being a turbo.

[solarite_guy]

It's alright, you relayed that someone said it sounds like crap and that you think it doesn't sound tough as the older skylines.

In which way? Can you describe specifics? Also answering CBs question can help others understand what you would like to improve.

[Fairlane 500]

Originally Posted by wildpete

Can a turbo barra sound as tough as those old turbo skylines?

There are plenty of old Skyline turbos with their cats removed.

Sound is subjective but I honestly far prefer the sound of a V8.

[wildpete]

Yes sound is very subjective. 20 odd years ago i had a XW with a 221? ci 6 running twin pipes with a balance line(3 into 1) and I thought it sounded tough as nails for a 6. It was all blow and not much go but it sounded the part in my opinion.

[solarite_guy]

Without modifying the exhaust system, I'm not sure how much benefit locking out the VCT phasers will help you.

You can close up the LSA, which actually can help with turbo in some situations but at some point the turbo will lose efficiency and the close LSA will hurt your power. Probably destroy fuel usage too,

I am not sure how any rumble from the added overlap will come through the stock exhaust.

Edited: sone = some and situation = situations

[Blue Dog]

"Could I just run standard cam timing on my G6ET if I preferred sound over substance and was not chasing performance and/or economy?"

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by wildpete

Hi All, I was reading the forums on exhaust systems a while back where somebody commented from my recollection that the barra six sounds like crap because of the variable valve timing. I dont know whether their is any truth to the comment but I do agree that these engines do not sound as tough as the older generation RB26 turbos for example.

Can a turbo barra sound as tough as those old turbo skylines?

Could I just run standard cam timing on my G6ET if I preferred sound over substance and was not chasing performance and/or economy?

Cheers

If you are comparing it to an RB26 - then you are listening to a GTR which is a smaller capacity performance engine with twin turbos that loves to rev. and most likely have a 3" pipe

In comparison your G6ET is a much larger 4L running a standard exhaust?

[solarite_guy]

I realize this isn't a Ford in the article, however, the article discusses closing up the LSA via computer control and shows benefits in certain conditions. Locking the LSA in a closely separated condition could get old very soon with the turbo.

http://www.enginelabs.com/news/spool...ing-for-boost/

[GASWAGON]

Stock exhaust and your complaining about the exhaust note???

LOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yel rotflm

[Vesper Martini]

Indeed, the standard Exhaust on the skylines of that era is pretty subdued, very rare to find a standard one now - even back then.

[Mercury Bullet]

Go see ratter.

He is doing ghost cams for the 6.

Even better, chuck a clevo in.

[wildpete]

Excuse my ignorance but what is the idea/logic around a ghost cam for the inline 6?

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by wildpete

Excuse my ignorance but what is the idea/logic around a ghost cam for the inline 6?

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11469280

[roddy1960]

Big fan of our Barra . She's a beaut . Who's the sound police anyway . It's all subjective . Opinions on how a car sounds are like bums , everybody's got one including me . Last year about this time we had a bunch of new Ferrari's in the area at Targa Tasmania time . I had a good listen to these turbo charged V8 's as most were and they didn't impress me but they are superb engines and are famous for how they go..Still couldn't get especially excited about the sounds though . The next bloke would have a totally different feeling on them absolutely no doubt . .. .

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11469280

Alright, so that is a start in the direction of dynamic valve timing control, which is resulting is changed LSAs to increase overlap in a narrow range of criteria.

[Bossxr8]

I think you will find the VCT on the turbo variants to be non active. The whole factory vct tuning tables are all zero's.

So the original theory that it sounds crap because of vct is just ridiculous.

I'm surprised this wasn't posted on April 1st.

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I think you will find the VCT on the turbo variants to be non active. The whole factory vct tuning tables are all zero's.

So the original theory that it sounds crap because of vct is just ridiculous.

I'm surprised this wasn't posted on April 1st.

Then what would the lobe separation angle be under operation?

[wildpete]

I guess I was remembering the old school late 80's early 90's Nissans with single turbo's and non vct?. A mate had an older RB26 with a adustable wastegate boost control valve? vented off inside the cabin and it sounded pretty tough to me as a then 20 year old. Another had a RB30 powered Fairlady Z? with a massive exhaust 3-4"? that just sounded like pure evil at idle/low rpm with low speed turbo whistle.

I would hate to own something like that as a daily driver but when I do retire the G6ET to weekend joyrides etc I wouldn't mind an exhaust note that scares the local wildlife.

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by wildpete

I guess I was remembering the old school late 80's early 90's Nissans with single turbo's and non vct?. A mate had an older RB26 with a adustable wastegate boost control valve? vented off inside the cabin and it sounded pretty tough to me as a then 20 year old. Another had a RB30 powered Fairlady Z? with a massive exhaust 3-4"? that just sounded like pure evil at idle/low rpm with low speed turbo whistle.

I would hate to own something like that as a daily driver but when I do retire the G6ET to weekend joyrides etc I wouldn't mind an exhaust note that scares the local wildlife.

I wouldn't give up on controlling the LSAs dynamically. 0'd out factory tables is not the end of the world. Phasers are in place. If control of the cam timing remains out of reach from the factory ecu as currently configured (if I interpreted bossxr8's post correctly), there are aftermarket options available even today. By the time you turn it into your weekend warrior, good chance more options will be available.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

Then what would the lobe separation angle be under operation?

Wouldn't have a clue. All I know is they are fixed at installation and the vct does not advance or retard in factory turbo engines, just NA ones.

With the new sct software giving access to the vct tables it can be activated now by the sound of it though.

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Wouldn't have a clue. All I know is they are fixed at installation and the vct does not advance or retard in factory turbo engines, just NA ones.

With the new sct software giving access to the vct tables it can be activated now by the sound of it though.

This is something I am surprised hasn't taken off sooner with the turbo ecu tuning crowd, and not just for the sake of a hot rod style idle.

When I first read the article I posted earlier on page 1, I actually laughed that some only now realize what the old time hot rodders have known and put into play since putting down their WWII air craft tools and starting up the post war aftermarket industry. Even still, it seems many are shunning it because it's strange and new in their world.

If limits remain in place for vct, etc, options for example, like Haltech still exist.

One of the next steps in this area is to re-engineer the phasers so the blind concept of lockouts and limiters can go the way of the Edsel.

Folks are still thinking "in 1 dimension" when it comes to valve timing.

[TICKFORD220]

I had a twin 2.5 venom system on my stock g6et and it sounded better than stock,not too much louder at idle but once opened up it sounded a lot crisper.

[burnz]

the only good sounding 6 that I heard, 245 hemi..
under gentle throttle sounded great, nice bark..